Let's celebrate the Right to Keep and Bear arms...something the rest of the world has surrendered....

[rightwinger]

And it just doesn't happen as often as you like to think it does.

How many people every year pull a gun over an argument?

It happens in road rage incidents, domestic arguments, arguments in a bar

These are the incidents being reported as “using my gun to save my life”

 

[Blues Man]

It happens in road rage incidents, domestic arguments, arguments in a bar

These are the incidents being reported as “using my gun to save my life”

How many?

Give us real statistics not anecdotes.

 

[2aguy]

It happens in road rage incidents, domestic arguments, arguments in a bar

These are the incidents being reported as “using my gun to save my life”

No, actually, they aren't.....domestic arguments and "road raged," are committed by violent criminals..not normal people who own guns for self defense.....the domestic abuse is criminals, gang members and other violent people hurting baby mommas......

Thanks for trying to lie about it though....

 

[Vagabond63]

Please find enough to offset the 1.1 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives according to the CDC...or 1.5 million from the Department of Justice, or 1.67 million from the 2020 Firearms survey......

We will wait.

Oh dear, this BS again. Started out at 2.5 million, which was debunked, now it's 1.1 million from a non existant study, pathetic. Next?

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

Saw this.....and I thought...it's about time we celebrate our ability to exercise our Right to be free from criminal attack, and government tyranny and murder.....

The anti-gunners here on U.S.messageboard.....believe these people should not be able to own or carry guns....

Soooooo.....



I love this country and its Freedom......

Hallelujah..... God bless America. Democrats suck.

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

Oh dear, this BS again. Started out at 2.5 million, which was debunked, now it's 1.1 million from a non existant study, pathetic. Next?

Irrelevant, if it saved one American its worth it. Don't be a victim.

 

[Vagabond63]

No, actually they aren't.....domestic arguments and "road raged," are committed by violent criminals..not normal people who own guns for self defense.....the domestic abuse is criminals, gang members and other violent people hurting baby mommas......

Really? A quick scan through American news media:

Daughters injured in quadruple shooting that left mom dead say they want justice

New York personal trainer arrested and accused of shooting his parents on Christmas

California man accused of fatally shooting his grandmother, father's girlfriend on Christmas

911 caller says husband shot 16-year-old daughter because he thought she was an intruder

No fries with that: Ogden man charged in gun threat at fast-food drive-up

Employee Charged With Murder After Shooting Suspected Thief: Police

Shotgun expert 'only wanted to scare son-in-law'

By all accounts these people are all "normal" law abiding American citizens.

Thanks for trying to lie about it though....

 

[Vagabond63]

Irrelevant, if it saved one American its worth it. Don't be a victim.

By you logic, then the death of one child by gunfire should be enough to ban all guns. Thanks.

 

[Vagabond63]

How many?

Just take a few minutes to scan your local news sites, I found ten such incidents in as many minutes of searching for December this year alone. Maybe somone should do a study...

 

[Vagabond63]

Yep....the democrats keep letting the violent criminals........if they would stop doing that, we would reduce our gun crime, since it is those repeat offenders who can't buy, own or carry guns who are doing almost all of the shooting....

Oh if only responsible gun owners looked after their guns...

'A crime of opportunity': More guns than ever were stolen from vehicles in Nashville in 2021

More “responsible” gun owners behaving irresponsibly; and that’s only in one city. We could do a "Lott" or a "Kleck" and extrapolate these numbers across the USA which would give us between 402,880 and 24,544,205 guns stolen from responsible gun owners vehicles in the US in 2021. Wow, so many irresponsible “responsible” gun owners! Of course, we also would need to look at thefts from homes and gun stores…

 

[2aguy]

Oh dear, this BS again. Started out at 2.5 million, which was debunked, now it's 1.1 million from a non existant study, pathetic. Next?

Wasn't debunked that was Kleck's numbrer.....1.1 is from the Centers from Disease Control, 1.5 million from the Department of Justice, 1.67 from the current 2021 Firearms survey....

You guys have been lying about Kleck's work ever since it came out.....but the government, anti-gun researchers from the CDC and the Department of Justice tried to discredit his work, and simply confirmed it........

 

[hadit]

No it's you who is stupid. There was just as many republicans shot also. The majority of the adherents to slavery were republicans but that's embarrassing for you. Its republicans who are still racist and hate filled. Just like you.
Don't deny it. You hate blacks.

Seriously, you really should have paid more attention in history class. Look up when the Republican party was founded and what its major reason for being was.

 

[Blues Man]

Just take a few minutes to scan your local news sites, I found ten such incidents in as many minutes of searching for December this year alone. Maybe somone should do a study...

Uh huh

My local news is as boring as it gets. There is virtually no crime in my and my 2 neighboring counties

 

[2aguy]

Really? A quick scan through American news media:

Daughters injured in quadruple shooting that left mom dead say they want justice

New York personal trainer arrested and accused of shooting his parents on Christmas

California man accused of fatally shooting his grandmother, father's girlfriend on Christmas

911 caller says husband shot 16-year-old daughter because he thought she was an intruder

No fries with that: Ogden man charged in gun threat at fast-food drive-up

Employee Charged With Murder After Shooting Suspected Thief: Police

Shotgun expert 'only wanted to scare son-in-law'

By all accounts these people are all "normal" law abiding American citizens.

Thanks for trying to lie about it though....

Yes......the stories covered by uninformed, left wing, anti-gun journalists......while the stories of actual self defense go unreported because they don't have bodies on the ground.....

Now....the truth.....

While Americans know that guns take many innocent lives every year, many don’t know that firearms also save them.

On May 15, an attacker at an apartment complex in Fort Smith, Ark., fatally shot a woman and then fired 93 rounds at other people before a man killed him with a bolt-action rifle. Police said he “likely saved a number of lives in the process.”


On June 30, a 12-year-old Louisiana boy used a hunting rifle to stop an armed burglar who was threatening his mother’s life during a home invasion.

On July 4, a Chicago gunman shot into a crowd of people, killing one and wounding two others before a concealed handgun permit holder shot and wounded the attacker. Police praised him for stepping in.
-----
Americans who look only at the daily headlines would be surprised to learn that, according to academic estimates, defensive gun uses — including instances when guns are simply shown to deter a crime — are four to five times more common than gun crimes, and far more frequent than the roughly 20,000 murders or fewer each year, with or without a gun. But even when they prevent mass public shootings, defensive uses rarely get national news coverage. Those living in major news markets such as New York City, Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles are unlikely to hear of such stories.

As of Aug. 10, America’s five largest newspapers — the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, USA Today, and the Wall Street Journal — have published a combined total of 10 news stories this year reporting a civilian using a gun to successfully stop a crime, according to a search of the Nexis database of news stories. By contrast, those same newspapers had a total of 1,743 news stories containing the keywords “murder” or “murdered” or “murders” and “gunfire,” “shot,” or “shots.” Including articles with the word “wounded,” the total rises to 2,764.

“Nobody who has done their homework on defensive gun use could possibly believe reading news articles accurately captures anything but an infinitesimal share of defensive gun uses,” Tomislav Kovandzic, an associate professor of criminology at the University of Texas at Dallas, told RealClearInvestigations. “The only way to measure defensive gun uses is with surveys. While there is no such thing as a perfect measure of anything, the fact that they consistently show large numbers of defensive gun uses can’t be ignored.”

The U.S. Department of Justice’s National Crime Victimization Survey indicates that around 100,000 defensive gun uses occur each year -- an estimate that, though it may seem like a lot, is actually much lower than 17 other surveys. They find between 760,000 defensive handgun uses and 3.6 million defensive uses of any type of gun per year, with an average of about 2 million.

The difference between these surveys arises from the screening questions. The National Crime Victimization Survey first asks a person if they have been a victim of a crime. Only respondents who answer “yes” are asked if they have ever used a gun defensively.
----

Defensive gun uses don't loom large as a public concern not only because they tend not to feature dead bodies or blood. They are also underplayed because of a distorting feedback loop involving news organizations.


Many leading outfits use data from the Gun Violence Archive to track firearm use. The GVA, however, relies primarily on news reports, creating literally an unvirtuous circle. This media coverage focuses on the most extreme cases, which academic research suggests is actually a minority of gun uses.

“Media stories cannot be trusted to accurately reflect the number or type of defensive gun uses that actually occur,” Professor Gary Mauser of Canada’s Simon Fraser University told RCI. Mauser has conducted national surveys on defensive gun use. “National surveys find that firearms are rarely fired when used to stop a violent attack," he said. "Such cases are unlikely to be reported to the police, and even less likely to found in media stories. Relying upon media stories would greatly underestimate the true number of defensive gun uses.”
-----
Compounding the challenge, most police departments do not compile data on defensive gun use. One exception is the Houston Police Department. Jodi Silva, a spokesperson for the department, told RCI it has a rule to release a press statement whenever someone has been killed or wounded in a shooting. No other department does that. This helps explain why two-thirds of defensive gun uses compiled by the GVA come from Houston, with the rest found in news stories from elsewhere.

Mauser notes another anomaly: Police departments are only reporting instances when shots are fired. “That means they are certainly missing most defensive gun use cases,” he says.

Texas has the most news stories on defensive gun uses, with over 14% of all the cases. That isn’t surprising given that it’s the most populous state with less restrictive concealed-carry laws. Just three states – Texas, Florida, and Ohio – accounted for over 26% of all the defensive gun use news stories.

There Are Far More Defensive Gun Uses Than Murders. Here's Why You Rarely Hear of Them.

While Americans know that guns take many innocent lives every year, many don’t know that firearms also save them. On May 15, an attacker at an apartment complex in Fort Smith, Ark., fatally

www.realclearinvestigations.com

Now.......how about answering these questions......

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?
=======

The British government will not allow a woman to own and carry a gun to prevent being gang raped in a London park.....saying she does not have "good reason," to own the gun.

A member of the House of Lords wants to quail hunt with his rich friends on his private country estate, and the British government gives him the gun....because he has "good reason."

Does this make sense to you?

 

[2aguy]

Oh if only responsible gun owners looked after their guns...

'A crime of opportunity': More guns than ever were stolen from vehicles in Nashville in 2021

More “responsible” gun owners behaving irresponsibly; and that’s only in one city. We could do a "Lott" or a "Kleck" and extrapolate these numbers across the USA which would give us between 402,880 and 24,544,205 guns stolen from responsible gun owners vehicles in the US in 2021. Wow, so many irresponsible “responsible” gun owners! Of course, we also would need to look at thefts from homes and gun stores…

The problem, you uninformed doofus....is that anti-gunners like you, here in the states, make as many public spaces as possible gun free zones....for normal gun owners.....this requires normal gun owners to store their guns in their car for the simple act of going shopping at the local grocery store. Then, the people the democrat party keeps releasing.....criminals.....break into cars and steal guns.....

Gun free zones, and the idiots who create them, cause gun theft, not normal gun owners....

And again....please answer the following questions....which you have yet to do......I wonder why?

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?
=======
The British government will not allow a woman to own and carry a gun to prevent being gang raped in a London park.....saying she does not have "good reason," to own the gun.

A member of the House of Lords wants to quail hunt with his rich friends on his private country estate, and the British government gives him the gun....because he has "good reason."

Does this make sense to you?

 

[Blues Man]

Oh if only responsible gun owners looked after their guns...

'A crime of opportunity': More guns than ever were stolen from vehicles in Nashville in 2021

More “responsible” gun owners behaving irresponsibly; and that’s only in one city. We could do a "Lott" or a "Kleck" and extrapolate these numbers across the USA which would give us between 402,880 and 24,544,205 guns stolen from responsible gun owners vehicles in the US in 2021. Wow, so many irresponsible “responsible” gun owners! Of course, we also would need to look at thefts from homes and gun stores…

So blame the victim of a crime and not the actual fucking criminal.

I guess the 700000 annual rape victims just had it coming too, right?

 

[2aguy]

Oh if only responsible gun owners looked after their guns...

'A crime of opportunity': More guns than ever were stolen from vehicles in Nashville in 2021

More “responsible” gun owners behaving irresponsibly; and that’s only in one city. We could do a "Lott" or a "Kleck" and extrapolate these numbers across the USA which would give us between 402,880 and 24,544,205 guns stolen from responsible gun owners vehicles in the US in 2021. Wow, so many irresponsible “responsible” gun owners! Of course, we also would need to look at thefts from homes and gun stores…

And the other side....lives saved...because Americans can defend themselves....

600 million guns in private hands......over 21.25 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



American use those legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....



2019...



Gun murder...10,235



Gun accidents...486



Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Gun suicides... 23,491...





Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control, and 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice.



Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

 

[2aguy]

Oh if only responsible gun owners looked after their guns...

'A crime of opportunity': More guns than ever were stolen from vehicles in Nashville in 2021

More “responsible” gun owners behaving irresponsibly; and that’s only in one city. We could do a "Lott" or a "Kleck" and extrapolate these numbers across the USA which would give us between 402,880 and 24,544,205 guns stolen from responsible gun owners vehicles in the US in 2021. Wow, so many irresponsible “responsible” gun owners! Of course, we also would need to look at thefts from homes and gun stores…

If only women would stop dressing in sexy clothes, they wouldn't be raped so much.......is essentially what you are saying here.......

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

By you logic, then the death of one child by gunfire should be enough to ban all guns. Thanks.

Anti American troll. Go away.

 

[Vagabond63]

He could have just as easily used a knife, or a hammer.

True, but the "right to bear arms" doesn't specify right to bear firearms, does it?