Lets elect moderates that aim to keep America number 1#

[Seawytch]

Good point. Speaking as an Independent I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Above all else my ideology puts the American people themselves first and foremost above the interests of the corporations.

Hating on the corporation that gives our nation innovativeness, wealth and jobs = isn't wise. I agree that people should have rights and fair pay....

No hate for corporations at all. They just need to be removed from any and all influence in politics. We the People are supposed to have a government FOR the people themselves. That is not happening while corporations are able to buy politicians. What I want to see is a "wall of separation" between politics and corporations.

^^^ that ^^^

 

[Pete7469]

The problem with being a 'moderate' is that it's a completely relative label. Often, it's used as an excuse for those who don't want to discuss their ideology.

Good point. Speaking as an Independent I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Above all else my ideology puts the American people themselves first and foremost above the interests of the corporations.

You're about as "fiscally conservative" as Ted Kennedy.

Just not quite as sober.

 

[Pete7469]

Good point. Speaking as an Independent I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Above all else my ideology puts the American people themselves first and foremost above the interests of the corporations.

Hating on the corporation that gives our nation innovativeness, wealth and jobs = isn't wise. I agree that people should have rights and fair pay....

No hate for corporations at all. They just need to be removed from any and all influence in politics. We the People are supposed to have a government FOR the people themselves. That is not happening while corporations are able to buy politicians. What I want to see is a "wall of separation" between politics and corporations.

How about a wall between unions and politicians? How about journalists not being allowed to hob nob with government officials, cover up scandals or invent them?

You bed wetters seem to think a Corporation is a self aware entity with an evil soul. The people who own corporations are not all evil, they're not all inclined to use government to crush competition but since bed wetting liberals have given government so much power it has become a tool some rich people use to do nefarious things.

Strip that power from the government. Don't give it MORE POWER to "regulate itself". These assholes can't even build a wall to keep out illegal aliens. Do you think they'll build a wall to seperate themselves from money?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Hating on the corporation that gives our nation innovativeness, wealth and jobs = isn't wise. I agree that people should have rights and fair pay....

No hate for corporations at all. They just need to be removed from any and all influence in politics. We the People are supposed to have a government FOR the people themselves. That is not happening while corporations are able to buy politicians. What I want to see is a "wall of separation" between politics and corporations.

How about a wall between unions and politicians? How about journalists not being allowed to hob nob with government officials, cover up scandals or invent them?

You bed wetters seem to think a Corporation is a self aware entity with an evil soul. The people who own corporations are not all evil, they're not all inclined to use government to crush competition but since bed wetting liberals have given government so much power it has become a tool some rich people use to do nefarious things.

Strip that power from the government. Don't give it MORE POWER to "regulate itself". These assholes can't even build a wall to keep out illegal aliens. Do you think they'll build a wall to seperate themselves from money?

Which part of We the People needs to be explained?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Is there a first world nation on earth that doesn't use the system I'm talking about????

Pure capitalism is brutal
Pure socialism is idiocy

Being on one side or the other is idiocy.

 

[dblack]

No hate for corporations at all. They just need to be removed from any and all influence in politics. We the People are supposed to have a government FOR the people themselves. That is not happening while corporations are able to buy politicians. What I want to see is a "wall of separation" between politics and corporations.

How about a wall between unions and politicians? How about journalists not being allowed to hob nob with government officials, cover up scandals or invent them?

You bed wetters seem to think a Corporation is a self aware entity with an evil soul. The people who own corporations are not all evil, they're not all inclined to use government to crush competition but since bed wetting liberals have given government so much power it has become a tool some rich people use to do nefarious things.

Strip that power from the government. Don't give it MORE POWER to "regulate itself". These assholes can't even build a wall to keep out illegal aliens. Do you think they'll build a wall to seperate themselves from money?

Which part of We the People needs to be explained?

What do you mean?

 

[Derideo_Te]

How about a wall between unions and politicians? How about journalists not being allowed to hob nob with government officials, cover up scandals or invent them?

You bed wetters seem to think a Corporation is a self aware entity with an evil soul. The people who own corporations are not all evil, they're not all inclined to use government to crush competition but since bed wetting liberals have given government so much power it has become a tool some rich people use to do nefarious things.

Strip that power from the government. Don't give it MORE POWER to "regulate itself". These assholes can't even build a wall to keep out illegal aliens. Do you think they'll build a wall to seperate themselves from money?

Which part of We the People needs to be explained?

What do you mean?

We the People formed a government OF the people and BY the people FOR the people. WE are the government according to the Constitution. It is up to US to use OUR power to ensure that the OUR government reflects OUR values and not those of corporate special interests.

 

[bripat9643]

Is there a first world nation on earth that doesn't use the system I'm talking about????

Pure capitalism is brutal
Pure socialism is idiocy

Being on one side or the other is idiocy.

That's not a "system," It's a complaint. It's also not true. There's nothing particularly "brutal" about capitalism. Society was simply brutal in the 19th Century.

 

[bripat9643]

Which part of We the People needs to be explained?

What do you mean?

We the People formed a government OF the people and BY the people FOR the people. WE are the government according to the Constitution. It is up to US to use OUR power to ensure that the OUR government reflects OUR values and not those of corporate special interests.

"Of the people, by the people and for the people" is from the Gettysburg Address, not the Constitution, numskull. Nothing in the Constitution exempts corporations from enjoying the same rights that everyone else enjoys.

 

[Pete7469]

Is there a first world nation on earth that doesn't use the system I'm talking about????

Pure capitalism is brutal
Pure socialism is idiocy

Being on one side or the other is idiocy.

That's not a "system," It's a complaint. It's also not true. There's nothing particularly "brutal" about capitalism. Society was simply brutal in the 19th Century.

There has never been anything more brutal than governments inspired by a marxist agenda.

 

[Old Rocks]

The problem with being a 'moderate' is that it's a completely relative label. Often, it's used as an excuse for those who don't want to discuss their ideology.

Good point. Speaking as an Independent I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Above all else my ideology puts the American people themselves first and foremost above the interests of the corporations.

Hating on the corporation that gives our nation innovativeness, wealth and jobs = isn't wise. I agree that people should have rights and fair pay....

Well Mathew, you seem to have a problem here. You are getting more agreement in an agenda to move this nation ahead in the 21st Century from the liberals than from the 'Conservatives'.

Unfettered corperate power leads to fascism. Unfettered government power leads to dictatorship, irrelevant whether it is from the right or from the left.

Two of the leaders of this nation at it's inception were considered to be among the leading scientific minds in the world at that time, Franklin and Jefferson. Today, we have a wing of one of the two major parties in this nation that rejects science, period. That is a situation that will be resolved much to the detriment of the party, and, unfortunetly, to the detriment of the nation, as we are held hostage to their anti-science agenda while other nations move ahead of us in fields that we pioneered.

 

[Old Rocks]

What do you mean?

We the People formed a government OF the people and BY the people FOR the people. WE are the government according to the Constitution. It is up to US to use OUR power to ensure that the OUR government reflects OUR values and not those of corporate special interests.

"Of the people, by the people and for the people" is from the Gettysburg Address, not the Constitution, numskull. Nothing in the Constitution exempts corporations from enjoying the same rights that everyone else enjoys.

Corperations are legal entities, not people. Legal entities that states and federal governments should be able to put an end to whenever they become the enemies of the people of this nation.



I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
Thomas Jefferson
Read more at Thomas Jefferson Quotes - BrainyQuote

 

[Old Rocks]

Hating on the corporation that gives our nation innovativeness, wealth and jobs = isn't wise. I agree that people should have rights and fair pay....

No hate for corporations at all. They just need to be removed from any and all influence in politics. We the People are supposed to have a government FOR the people themselves. That is not happening while corporations are able to buy politicians. What I want to see is a "wall of separation" between politics and corporations.

How about a wall between unions and politicians? How about journalists not being allowed to hob nob with government officials, cover up scandals or invent them?

You bed wetters seem to think a Corporation is a self aware entity with an evil soul. The people who own corporations are not all evil, they're not all inclined to use government to crush competition but since bed wetting liberals have given government so much power it has become a tool some rich people use to do nefarious things.

Strip that power from the government. Don't give it MORE POWER to "regulate itself". These assholes can't even build a wall to keep out illegal aliens. Do you think they'll build a wall to seperate themselves from money?

The leaders of the corperations that insisted that asbestos and tobacco were harmless in spite of the evidence to the contrary that was century old were not evil? Their lies caused millions of early deaths in this nation alone. Corperations that engage in that kind of evil should be terminated, and their officers imprisoned.

 

[Old Rocks]

Is there a first world nation on earth that doesn't use the system I'm talking about????

Pure capitalism is brutal
Pure socialism is idiocy

Being on one side or the other is idiocy.

That's not a "system," It's a complaint. It's also not true. There's nothing particularly "brutal" about capitalism. Society was simply brutal in the 19th Century.

Spoken by one that knows so little of history.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Let's elect free market conservatives

Obama like FDR is dragging down the economy and we can do better

Mo'n bigga government fails everytime

 

[Pete7469]

No hate for corporations at all. They just need to be removed from any and all influence in politics. We the People are supposed to have a government FOR the people themselves. That is not happening while corporations are able to buy politicians. What I want to see is a "wall of separation" between politics and corporations.

How about a wall between unions and politicians? How about journalists not being allowed to hob nob with government officials, cover up scandals or invent them?

You bed wetters seem to think a Corporation is a self aware entity with an evil soul. The people who own corporations are not all evil, they're not all inclined to use government to crush competition but since bed wetting liberals have given government so much power it has become a tool some rich people use to do nefarious things.

Strip that power from the government. Don't give it MORE POWER to "regulate itself". These assholes can't even build a wall to keep out illegal aliens. Do you think they'll build a wall to seperate themselves from money?

Which part of We the People needs to be explained?

Obviously you need it explained to you bed wetter.

PEOPLE own corporations. People invest in corporations in order to make profits.

People who can influence politicians will do so, regardless if it's to make their companies more profitable, or promote some asinine global warming bullshit. You only seem concerned about some people using government to profit. Are you not pissed off about the billions wasted on solar power companies that folded?

Take the power and money away from the government, and the problem is solved.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What do you mean?

We the People formed a government OF the people and BY the people FOR the people. WE are the government according to the Constitution. It is up to US to use OUR power to ensure that the OUR government reflects OUR values and not those of corporate special interests.

"Of the people, by the people and for the people" is from the Gettysburg Address, not the Constitution, numskull. Nothing in the Constitution exempts corporations from enjoying the same rights that everyone else enjoys.

So corporations should be allowed to vote? Corporations should be allowed to hold elected office? Corporations should have Miranda Rights and a jury of their peers and go to prison if they are found guilty?

FYI Lincoln was merely summarizing the goals of the Constitution as stated in the Preamble.

 

[dblack]

Which part of We the People needs to be explained?

What do you mean?

We the People formed a government OF the people and BY the people FOR the people. WE are the government according to the Constitution. It is up to US to use OUR power to ensure that the OUR government reflects OUR values and not those of corporate special interests.

But what about when the majority of 'we the people' support laws that give special perks to corporations (or any other special interest group)? Really that's the case with most of the problems we face. We the people vote for, and keep re-electing, the representatives who are catering to special interests.

I asked for clarification because I wasn't sure if you were holding up democracy alone as the solution for eliminating special interest government (ie corporatism). I don't think we can rely on it for that. Arguably, democracy is what's driving it.

What we need, perhaps counter-intuitively, is solid limitations on the power of 'we the people' to implement their will via government.

 

[dblack]

We the People formed a government OF the people and BY the people FOR the people. WE are the government according to the Constitution. It is up to US to use OUR power to ensure that the OUR government reflects OUR values and not those of corporate special interests.

"Of the people, by the people and for the people" is from the Gettysburg Address, not the Constitution, numskull. Nothing in the Constitution exempts corporations from enjoying the same rights that everyone else enjoys.

So corporations should be allowed to vote? Corporations should be allowed to hold elected office? Corporations should have Miranda Rights and a jury of their peers and go to prison if they are found guilty?

FYI Lincoln was merely summarizing the goals of the Constitution as stated in the Preamble.

Jeez.... this whole 'corporations are people' argument seems so pointless. Aren't we mostly talking past each other? The real issue is the batch of special perks granted via the corporate charter (especially limited liability). Other than that, the owners and operators of corporations should have all the same rights the rest of us do.

The "legal fiction" of corporate personhood is a technical consideration, useful in certain contexts, not really meant in the way it is usually invoked. It's certainly not meant to say that corporations have rights in the same way individuals have rights - certainly not he same rights in any case.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What do you mean?

We the People formed a government OF the people and BY the people FOR the people. WE are the government according to the Constitution. It is up to US to use OUR power to ensure that the OUR government reflects OUR values and not those of corporate special interests.

But what about when the majority of 'we the people' support laws that give special perks to corporations (or any other special interest group)? Really that's the case with most of the problems we face. We the people vote for, and keep re-electing, the representatives who are catering to special interests.

I asked for clarification because I wasn't sure if you were holding up democracy alone as the solution for eliminating special interest government (ie corporatism). I don't think we can rely on it for that. Arguably, democracy is what's driving it.

What we need, perhaps counter-intuitively, is solid limitations on the power of 'we the people' to implement their will via government.

The abuse of the system came about with the right to "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" in my opinion. It was intended for individuals to be able to make their case to their elected representatives. It has subsequently been perverted by corporate special interests into the cabal of lobbyists. The real problem stems from elections being won by whomever has the biggest war chest. Whomever provides those funds then owns the politician in question. The "wall of separation" between corporations and politicians should include all election funding of any nature, any "favors" or other perks, gifts, etc and most of all there must be a 10 year moratorium after leaving office and a politician taking a private sector job in any area where he has cast a favorable vote. So yes, we are talking about certain limitations that will stem the tide of corruption.