LGBT & ? vs Utah: Legal Arguments at 10th Circuit Begin April 10, 2014

[Seawytch]

Black is something you're born as. Gay is something you pick up along the way.

That's the yardstick that the 14th will be tested with.

A) you haven't proven this. B) that's not what the US govt says. C) it makes no difference, the 14A isn't just about what you're born with. Religion is protected, you're not born with it.

The theory of human rights disagrees with you massively.

Science disagrees massively as well.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Black is something you're born as. Gay is something you pick up along the way.

That's the yardstick that the 14th will be tested with.

And that yardstick was already measured and the 14th was found to apply homosexuals.

"The primary rationale the State offers for Amendment 2 is respect for other citizens' freedom of association, and in particular the liberties of landlords or employers who have personal or religious objections to homosexuality. Colorado also cites its interest in conserving resources to fight discrimination against other groups. The breadth of the Amendment is so far removed from these particular justifications that we find it impossible to credit them. We cannot say that Amendment 2 is directed to any identifiable legitimate purpose or discrete objective. It is a status based enactment divorced from any factual context from which we could discern a relationship to legitimate state interests; it is a classification of persons undertaken for its own sake, something the Equal Protection Clause does not permit. "[C]lass legislation . . . [is] obnoxious to the prohibitions of the Fourteenth Amendment . . . ." Civil Rights Cases, 109 U. S., at 24.

We must conclude that Amendment 2 classifies homosexuals not to further a proper legislative end but to make them unequal to everyone else. This Colorado cannot do. A State cannot so deem a class of persons a stranger to its laws. Amendment 2 violates the Equal Protection Clause, and the judgment of the Supreme Court of Colorado is affirmed.

It is so ordered. "

Romer v. Evans
Romer, Governor of Colorado, et al. v. Evans et al., 517 U.S. 620 (1996).​

>>>>

 

[Seawytch]

Are people born with the desire to sleep with the member of another race or do they choose it? In a free society, it doesn't matter a whit.

 

[Silhouette]

Black is something you're born as. Gay is something you pick up along the way.

That's the yardstick that the 14th will be tested with.

A) you haven't proven this. B) that's not what the US govt says. C) it makes no difference, the 14A isn't just about what you're born with. Religion is protected, you're not born with it.

The theory of human rights disagrees with you massively.

A.) I haven't proven this but maybe you might want to source the 300+ peer reviewed studies in the bibliography of this compilation and that support its conclusion. Also, an entire industry has been working for centuries now around training all warm blooded species to become sexually aroused/fixated on artificial "love objects" in order to collect semen...to the exclusion of normal hetero partners if imprinted early enough.

http://www.pphp.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno(2001).pdf
Conditioning and Sexual Behavior: A Review
James G. Pfaus,1 Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia
University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montre´al, Que´bec, H3G 1M8 Canada
Received August 9, 2000, accepted March 1, 2001

B.) The government says what the US Supreme Court determines. If the government is shown different material and data, it changes its mind. Right now it's running off "the truth that gay is born that way" because huge campaign contributions for Obama came from the church of LGBT. Look who his education czar is. That guy is teaching kids in school gay sexual practices without the permission or assent of kids' parents. How's that for pedophile grooming sanctioned by the state? Yes, fortunately the state can change its mind..

C.) Religion is something you have to be recognized for in order to qualify for the 14th. Has the church of LGBT applied for federal recognition and tax-exempt status? Glad to see your'e finally admitting that LGBT has very deep cult overtones.

 

[The Rabbi]

And yet in Wisconsin it is illegal for gay couples to marry elsewhere.

The law imposes a penalty for those who enter into a marriage that's prohibited or declared void in Wisconsin of up to $10,000 and nine months in prison.

Wisconsin gay couples who marry outside state could face penalty

It is illegal in WI to serve beer in an establishment that lacks a soup pot.
Again, I have yet to see anyone hauled off to jail because they had a gay wedding ceremony. Even in WI.

Comparing a current 21st century law to an 18th or 19th century one goes beyond apples and oranges. The FACT is that, like interracial marriage, some states have decided to criminalize marriage for gays and lesbians. Just because nobody has been charged yet doesn't mean they won't be...and Wisconsin isn't the only state with such a law. In Delaware it's $100 fine and up to 30 days in prison.

Your own link quotes a DA saying no one is going to be convicted, hell even tried, under that statute, absent criminal activity of some other kinds.
It is not like interracial marriage. It is nothing like interracial marriage. It might be like inter-species marriage.

 

[The Rabbi]

And if you commit a felony, it can be taken away. Hmmm, marriage can't be but guns and the right to vote can be. Interesting...

If you marry someone falsely, e.g. you're already married to someone else, your marriage license will be taken away.
If you commit securities fraud, your securities license will be taken away. Is dealing in securities a right? No, it is a privilege. Like marriage.

Again the fact remains...If you commit a felony you lose your right to vote and to bear arms and yet a Supreme Court decision said you can't take marriage rights away from those same criminals. Why is that, Rabbi?

Because unlike voting and firearms marriage is not a right but a privilege. You've proven it yourself.

 

[The Rabbi]

Black is something you're born as. Gay is something you pick up along the way.

That's the yardstick that the 14th will be tested with.

A) you haven't proven this. B) that's not what the US govt says. C) it makes no difference, the 14A isn't just about what you're born with. Religion is protected, you're not born with it.

The theory of human rights disagrees with you massively.

Science disagrees massively as well.

Science also proved global warming. The most disproved theory in existence.

 

[Silhouette]

Global climate change, however, is very real. As evidenced by the alarming and accelerating unpredictable weather, storms, tornados, tornado swarms, snownados, snownado storms etc.

Science has visited the gay/behavioral issue. Remember:

Black is something you're born as. Gay is something you pick up along the way.

That's the yardstick that the 14th will be tested with.

A) you haven't proven this. B) that's not what the US govt says. C) it makes no difference, the 14A isn't just about what you're born with. Religion is protected, you're not born with it.

The theory of human rights disagrees with you massively.

A.) I haven't proven this but maybe you might want to source the 300+ peer reviewed studies in the bibliography of this compilation and that support its conclusion. Also, an entire industry has been working for centuries now around training all warm blooded species to become sexually aroused/fixated on artificial "love objects" in order to collect semen...to the exclusion of normal hetero partners if imprinted early enough.

http://www.pphp.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno(2001).pdf
Conditioning and Sexual Behavior: A Review
James G. Pfaus,1 Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia
University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montre´al, Que´bec, H3G 1M8 Canada
Received August 9, 2000, accepted March 1, 2001

B.) The government says what the US Supreme Court determines. If the government is shown different material and data, it changes its mind. Right now it's running off "the truth that gay is born that way" because huge campaign contributions for Obama came from the church of LGBT. Look who his education czar is. That guy is teaching kids in school gay sexual practices without the permission or assent of kids' parents. How's that for pedophile grooming sanctioned by the state? Yes, fortunately the state can change its mind..

C.) Religion is something you have to be recognized for in order to qualify for the 14th. Has the church of LGBT applied for federal recognition and tax-exempt status? Glad to see your'e finally admitting that LGBT has very deep cult overtones.

 

[Seawytch]

If you marry someone falsely, e.g. you're already married to someone else, your marriage license will be taken away.

If you commit securities fraud, your securities license will be taken away. Is dealing in securities a right? No, it is a privilege. Like marriage.

Again the fact remains...If you commit a felony you lose your right to vote and to bear arms and yet a Supreme Court decision said you can't take marriage rights away from those same criminals. Why is that, Rabbi?

Because unlike voting and firearms marriage is not a right but a privilege. You've proven it yourself.

So a privilege can't be taken away but a right can? You're making no sense.

 

[Seawytch]

A) you haven't proven this. B) that's not what the US govt says. C) it makes no difference, the 14A isn't just about what you're born with. Religion is protected, you're not born with it.



The theory of human rights disagrees with you massively.

Science disagrees massively as well.

Science also proved global warming. The most disproved theory in existence.

Not according to 99.9% of climate scientists.

 

[The Rabbi]

Science disagrees massively as well.

Science also proved global warming. The most disproved theory in existence.

Not according to 99.9% of climate scientists.

Scientific fact is not established by popular vote.
But gay marriage is.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Marriage, as defined by SCOTUS, is a right not a privilege.

It can be regulated by the states as long as they don't infringe on the right.

Utah is hoping to make its argument that it is "about the kids."

It will argue that having two adults in the house is good.

It will argue and fail that having two same-sex adults in the house is bad.

SCOTUS ruling will not only uphold same sex marriage, it will also uphold same-sex second parent adoption.

 

[The Rabbi]

Marriage, as defined by SCOTUS, is a right not a privilege.

It can be regulated by the states as long as they don't infringe on the right.

Utah is hoping to make its argument that it is "about the kids."

It will argue that having two adults in the house is good.

It will argue and fail that having two same-sex adults in the house is bad.

SCOTUS ruling will not only uphold same sex marriage, it will also uphold same-sex second parent adoption.

SCOTUS will conclude that Jake Starkey is unconstitutional.

 

[Crystalclear]

The LBGT should have equal marriage rights and no government that tells what and what not to do.

 

[The Rabbi]

The LBGT should have equal marriage rights and no government that tells what and what not to do.

Jake, is that you?

 

[Crystalclear]

The LBGT should have equal marriage rights and no government that tells what and what not to do.

Jake, is that you?

Eeh... No, actually

 

[frigidweirdo]

boom!

 

[frigidweirdo]

A.) I haven't proven this but maybe you might want to source the 300+ peer reviewed studies in the bibliography of this compilation and that support its conclusion. Also, an entire industry has been working for centuries now around training all warm blooded species to become sexually aroused/fixated on artificial "love objects" in order to collect semen...to the exclusion of normal hetero partners if imprinted early enough.

What are you saying here? That because human beings can learn things, then a gay person MUST learn being gay, it doesn't come naturally? Then why haven't I learnt to be gay? Why do some people learn it, while others don't in the same environment? Are they just more susceptible to this kind of thing? Does this mean they're more likely to eat McDonalds, drink Coca-Cola and vote dem or rep?

You're making a very, very difficult argument and you're going to have to back this up. Because all I see is a massive jump from your Pavlovian learning, to people being gay.

http://www.pphp.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno(2001).pdf
Conditioning and Sexual Behavior: A Review
James G. Pfaus,1 Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia
University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montre´al, Que´bec, H3G 1M8 Canada
Received August 9, 2000, accepted March 1, 2001

B.) The government says what the US Supreme Court determines. If the government is shown different material and data, it changes its mind. Right now it's running off "the truth that gay is born that way" because huge campaign contributions for Obama came from the church of LGBT. Look who his education czar is. That guy is teaching kids in school gay sexual practices without the permission or assent of kids' parents. How's that for pedophile grooming sanctioned by the state? Yes, fortunately the state can change its mind..

C.) Religion is something you have to be recognized for in order to qualify for the 14th. Has the church of LGBT applied for federal recognition and tax-exempt status? Glad to see your'e finally admitting that LGBT has very deep cult overtones.

So you have another study which has nothing to do with gay people?

B) To be honest, the govt just needs to look at human rights, it makes no difference if someone is gay because they learnt it, as you are trying to claim, or if they are born that way. The govt should stay the fruit out of their life.

C) What does religion have to do with this issue and the 14A?

"1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I don't see religion written there.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Marriage, as defined by SCOTUS, is a right not a privilege.

It can be regulated by the states as long as they don't infringe on the right.

Utah is hoping to make its argument that it is "about the kids."

It will argue that having two adults in the house is good.

It will argue and fail that having two same-sex adults in the house is bad.

SCOTUS ruling will not only uphold same sex marriage, it will also uphold same-sex second parent adoption.

The problem Utah has, is that this could lead to a ban on divorce. Do they want to go there?

 

[frigidweirdo]

So a privilege can't be taken away but a right can? You're making no sense.

Rights can't be taken away, they can only be infringed, and they can (or should) only be taken away after due process.

The right to life can be infringed after due process.

Privileges can be taken away without due process. However, it doesn't mean they will be.