Liberal arguments for supporting gun ownership rights

[Chris]

Fine by me, as long as it doesn't devolve into outright bans

It never will.

All we need is a little common sense regulation.

Just like we need in the financial markets.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It never will.

All we need is a little common sense regulation.

Just like we need in the financial markets.

Saying one wants common sense regulation is such a subjective statement as too be worthless. Pose a regulation and watch people scramble. Common sense is in the eye of the regulator.

 

[LOki]

Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking

By Cheryl W. Thompson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 5, 2008

States with lax gun laws had higher rates of handgun killings, fatal shootings of police officers, and sales of weapons that were used in crimes in other states, according to a study underwritten by a group of more than 300 U.S. mayors.

The report, which was obtained by The Washington Post, found that 10 states, including Virginia, supplied 57 percent of the guns that were recovered in crimes in other states in 2007. The 38-page report is based on an analysis of annual crime-gun data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The analysis tracks guns used in crimes back to the retailers that first sold them.

Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking - washingtonpost.com

Why do you insist upon isolating "gun deaths" from the [other kinds of] deaths that defensive gun use so very often prevents?

Why do you prefer [some other kind of] death to "gun death?"

 

[LOki]

This chart shows that states with the loosest gun laws have the most gun deaths....

National Firearm Injury and Death Statistics | Washington Ceasefire

Why do you insist upon isolating "gun deaths" from the [other kinds of] deaths that defensive gun use so very often prevents?

Why do you prefer [some other kind of] death to "gun death?"

 

[LOki]

The state statistics came from the CDC website.

They are cold hard facts.

They are derived facts, manipulated to make a point.

Why do you insist upon isolating "gun deaths" from the [other kinds of] deaths that defensive gun use so very often prevents?

Why do you prefer [some other kind of] death to "gun death?"

 

[LOki]

States that perform local-level background checks for firearms purchases are more effective in reducing firearm suicide and homicide rates than states that rely only on a federal-level background check, according to a new study by researchers at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee.

The study, led by Steven A. Sumner, BS, a third-year medical student, and Peter Layde, MD, MS, Professor of Population Health and co-director of the Injury Research Center at the Medical College, is published electronically in the May 2008 issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, ahead of print.

Local-level background checks were found to be associated with a 27 percent lower firearm suicide rate and a 22 percent-lower homicide rate in adults aged 21 years or older.

Local Background Checks, Fewer Gun Deaths

Why do you insist upon isolating "gun deaths" from the [other kinds of] deaths that defensive gun use so very often prevents?

Why do you prefer [some other kind of] death to "gun death?"

 

[Diuretic]

That's interesting - is there a way to analyse the number of potential deaths that have been prevented by the presence of firearms in a society?

 

[Chris]

That's interesting - is there a way to analyse the number of potential deaths that have been prevented by the presence of firearms in a society?

Firearms don't prevent deaths, they cause them.

It is a ridiculous argument.

 

[LOki]

Firearms don't prevent deaths, they cause them.

Yet you have not produced even one.

It is a ridiculous argument.

Ridiculous is the argument that guns kill.

Why do you prefer [some other kind of] death to "gun death?"

 

[Harry Dresden]

So prove the stats that were posted wrong.

You can't.

it has been done since the first post Chris.....but you wont even say ok sometimes or a good amount of times it has happened......so the point of arguing with you is getting old real quick....i am able to acknowledge many of the points anti-gun people bring up,it is just their solutions that i cant buy.....like banning guns means the bad guy will give up his also....many anti-gunners BELIEVE this bullshit.....maybe if we ENFORCE the fucking gun laws and give anyone who uses a gun illegally the maximum sentences for whatever they have done,you might actually see some results in gun violence going way down,exterminating the gang bangers would be a good place to start....since they are responsible for a good deal of it....

 

[KittenKoder]

They are derived facts, manipulated to make a point.

Why do you insist upon isolating "gun deaths" from the [other kinds of] deaths that defensive gun use so very often prevents?

Why do you prefer [some other kind of] death to "gun death?"

It happens with so many political stances, but I agree. People will always ignore the whole picture just to try to prove a point, and that's dishonest. Such instances:

1. Second Hand Smoke
2. Abortion
3. Pollution
4. Economy
... the list keeps going on and on.

Really, there are millions of ways to kill someone, guns are actually the worst way if the criminal wants to get away with it. However if the criminals don't know who is packing a gun and who isn't they will be less likely to use one themselves.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are no different than any other tool or weapon and no less dangerous. How many people accidentally get killed by their power tools? (Quite a few actually) Or what about being mortally harmed by kitchen knives? (Far more than guns) Then there's toxic poisoning (higher than you would expect). Strangling is usually the preferred method if the criminal can over power you, though just as easy to catch as if they used a gun. Banning all guns would just be making it too easy for them, because then there would be fewer traceable records to find them with. Also it's easy to make a gun with even a little metal shop experience, gun powder formulas are taught in high school, and you don't need bullets, just ball bearings.

 

[KittenKoder]

One thing that's REALLY ironic:

The reason the government wanted to give us the right to gun ownership when we were first established was so we could revolt against them if they got out of hand. Yet the people who would appreciate that the most are against people having guns and those who seem to think we should blindly follow the government are for people having guns. How odd is that?

 

[del]

One thing that's REALLY ironic:

The reason the government wanted to give us the right to gun ownership when we were first established was so we could revolt against them if they got out of hand. Yet the people who would appreciate that the most are against people having guns and those who seem to think we should blindly follow the government are for people having guns. How odd is that?

it's very odd. completely devoid of truth, but odd.

 

[KittenKoder]

it's very odd. completely devoid of truth, but odd.

Let me point out that I didn't mean ALL in either case, just it seems so in most cases.

 

[Chris]

it has been done since the first post Chris.....but you wont even say ok sometimes or a good amount of times it has happened......so the point of arguing with you is getting old real quick....i am able to acknowledge many of the points anti-gun people bring up,it is just their solutions that i cant buy.....like banning guns means the bad guy will give up his also....many anti-gunners BELIEVE this bullshit.....maybe if we ENFORCE the fucking gun laws and give anyone who uses a gun illegally the maximum sentences for whatever they have done,you might actually see some results in gun violence going way down,exterminating the gang bangers would be a good place to start....since they are responsible for a good deal of it....

Who said anything about banning guns?

 

[Chris]

It happens with so many political stances, but I agree. People will always ignore the whole picture just to try to prove a point, and that's dishonest. Such instances:

1. Second Hand Smoke
2. Abortion
3. Pollution
4. Economy
... the list keeps going on and on.

Really, there are millions of ways to kill someone, guns are actually the worst way if the criminal wants to get away with it. However if the criminals don't know who is packing a gun and who isn't they will be less likely to use one themselves.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are no different than any other tool or weapon and no less dangerous. How many people accidentally get killed by their power tools? (Quite a few actually) Or what about being mortally harmed by kitchen knives? (Far more than guns) Then there's toxic poisoning (higher than you would expect). Strangling is usually the preferred method if the criminal can over power you, though just as easy to catch as if they used a gun. Banning all guns would just be making it too easy for them, because then there would be fewer traceable records to find them with. Also it's easy to make a gun with even a little metal shop experience, gun powder formulas are taught in high school, and you don't need bullets, just ball bearings.

Guns make it easy for people to kill themselves and others. Is that what we want to do, make it easy for people to kill?

The statistics show that sensible gun laws lower the number of gun deaths in the states that have stricter laws. What's wrong with a state background check for all gun purchases? It has already been shown to work.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's interesting - is there a way to analyse the number of potential deaths that have been prevented by the presence of firearms in a society?

Yes, although it carries a measure of subjectivity with it, obviously, since no one can accurately predict the future, or the future that might have been.

 

[Chris]

Guns don't prevent deaths, they cause them...

Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking - washingtonpost.com

States with lax gun laws had higher rates of handgun killings, fatal shootings of police officers, and sales of weapons that were used in crimes in other states, according to a study underwritten by a group of more than 300 U.S. mayors.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Guns don't prevent deaths, they cause them...

Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking - washingtonpost.com

States with lax gun laws had higher rates of handgun killings, fatal shootings of police officers, and sales of weapons that were used in crimes in other states, according to a study underwritten by a group of more than 300 U.S. mayors.

If you want to be a propaganda-bot, you should at least find new stuff. This is the same crap that was successfully refuted 10 pages ago.

 

[Chris]

If you want to be a propaganda-bot, you should at least find new stuff. This is the same crap that was successfully refuted 10 pages ago.

It was not refuted.

The state statistics are irrefutable and consistent over many years of time.

I love how people will deny government stats that don't fit their worldview. It's amazing.

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?cat=2&ind=113