Liberal logic on IDs and voting

[g5000]

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

One fraudulent vote is too many, I agree. But Voter ID won't stop it.

As for your last sentence, that is a strawman fallacy. It is something you desperately wish to believe.

 

[Redfish]

Voter ID in an of itself will do little to prevent voter fraud. However, if a voter system is not designed to prevent and detect voter fraud, saying that there is not a problem with fraud is like the owner of a night club saying that his club doesn't have a problem with underage drinkers when he has no ID check. And without the proper verifications, how will anyone know after the fact.

This the third time in this topic the same logical fallacy has been repeated. You guys seem to think saying the same thing over and over makes it true.

There is only one way for a bar owner to verify someone's age, and that is with an ID.

However, presenting an ID at the voting booth is not the only and best way to prevent voter fraud. So you people are comparing apples to oranges.

And I predicted someone would come along and say I claimed there was no voter fraud, and there you are.

I have not said there is no voter fraud. In fact, I plainly said there is. What you can't seem to get into your heads is that there is no case of voter fraud where you can prove Voter ID was the only way to prevent or stop it. You cannot get over this very low bar. All you have are imaginary fantasies that do not occur in real life.

Examples of real voter fraud:

Absentee ballot fraud. Voter ID won't stop it.

Registered to vote in more than one precinct. Voter ID won't stop it.

Poll worker marking ballots for her favorite candidate. Voter ID won't stop it.

Dead people voting. Simply fix what is broken and take people off the voter registration rolls when they die.

Fantasy fraud:

Millions of illegals voting in registered voters' names. That's Redfish's favorite fantasy, and it simply is impossible. It would be detected immediately.


So...again...if Voter ID will not stop voter fraud, you have to ask yourself what the REAL reason for it is. Why are you letting yourselvs be led like sheep to demand national identity papers for everyone?

Not only that but they reduce the number of early voting days for what? Not to prevent voter fraud. So why?

They have no reason behind it and its the most blantent example of restricting voting for no reason other than because they want to

Early voting is fine, but it should only be allowed one week before the election. If you can't get in to vote during that week, get an absentee ballot. Your red herring on early voting smells like a dead herring.

Extended early voting is favored by dems because it allows more time for people to double vote in several states and precincts. It also allows more time for groups like Acorn to fake registrations etc.

But please answer this-------in order to register and get on the voter rolls you need to prove your identity, how do you do this if you have no ID? What is wrong with showing the same ID at the polling place?

You know the answer----------dems rely on fraud in order to win. Admit it and then we can move on.

 

[g5000]

You know the answer----------dems rely on fraud in order to win. Admit it and then we can move on.

Again you are repeating something over and over to make it true. This is how self-delusion works. Be careful!

Papers! Papers, please!

 

[Redfish]

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

One fraudulent vote is too many, I agree. But Voter ID won't stop it.

As for your last sentence, that is a strawman fallacy. It is something you desperately wish to believe.

It will go a long way towards stopping it

 

[g5000]

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

One fraudulent vote is too many, I agree. But Voter ID won't stop it.

As for your last sentence, that is a strawman fallacy. It is something you desperately wish to believe.

It will go a long way towards stopping it

Nope. Please explain how voter ID will stop a bad poll worker like the one in Oregon who changed a bunch of ballots to straight Republican tickets.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from voting in two different precincts.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from casting more than one absentee ballot.

Please explain how voter ID will purge a dead voter from the registration rolls.

Those are the kinds of actual fraud which occur. And voter ID will solve NONE of them.

So there is an entirely different reason for why you are being led by the nose toward demanding identity papers for everyone.

 

[ClosedCaption]

This the third time in this topic the same logical fallacy has been repeated. You guys seem to think saying the same thing over and over makes it true.

There is only one way for a bar owner to verify someone's age, and that is with an ID.

However, presenting an ID at the voting booth is not the only and best way to prevent voter fraud. So you people are comparing apples to oranges.

And I predicted someone would come along and say I claimed there was no voter fraud, and there you are.

I have not said there is no voter fraud. In fact, I plainly said there is. What you can't seem to get into your heads is that there is no case of voter fraud where you can prove Voter ID was the only way to prevent or stop it. You cannot get over this very low bar. All you have are imaginary fantasies that do not occur in real life.

Examples of real voter fraud:

Absentee ballot fraud. Voter ID won't stop it.

Registered to vote in more than one precinct. Voter ID won't stop it.

Poll worker marking ballots for her favorite candidate. Voter ID won't stop it.

Dead people voting. Simply fix what is broken and take people off the voter registration rolls when they die.

Fantasy fraud:

Millions of illegals voting in registered voters' names. That's Redfish's favorite fantasy, and it simply is impossible. It would be detected immediately.


So...again...if Voter ID will not stop voter fraud, you have to ask yourself what the REAL reason for it is. Why are you letting yourselvs be led like sheep to demand national identity papers for everyone?

Not only that but they reduce the number of early voting days for what? Not to prevent voter fraud. So why?

They have no reason behind it and its the most blantent example of restricting voting for no reason other than because they want to

Early voting is fine, but it should only be allowed one week before the election. If you can't get in to vote during that week, get an absentee ballot. Your red herring on early voting smells like a dead herring.

Extended early voting is favored by dems because it allows more time for people to double vote in several states and precincts. It also allows more time for groups like Acorn to fake registrations etc.

But please answer this-------in order to register and get on the voter rolls you need to prove your identity, how do you do this if you have no ID? What is wrong with showing the same ID at the polling place?

You know the answer----------dems rely on fraud in order to win. Admit it and then we can move on.

Why not make it 2 days? Or 2 hours?

See the only reason repubs are doing this isn't to save voting its only to restrict who can vote and when. Reducing the number of days is the clearest example.

ACORN DOEST EVEN EXIST!!!

Admit to what you just made up as being true? Without a link or even circumstantial evidence? Would you say it was true just because I said it?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Seriously this motherfucker is for reducing the early voting to prevent ACORN from cheating!!!

ACORN DOEST EXISTS!!

So he is against early voting to stop an organization that doesn't exist and for voter ID laws to stop a problem that also doesn't exist.

See a pattern?

 

[squeeze berry]

When you are disenfranchising 100,000 voters for every one incident of fraud, this is not an acceptable ratio.

It's not necessarily the cost of the ID, it's the access to ID offices, the cost of the required associated paperwork and often a complete lack of that paperwork (born at home).

11% of votes cast are not fraudulent, we KNOW this. The percentage of fraud that would be stopped by requiring state issued photo IDs is less than 1%. That is an unacceptable ratio. Get it down below 2% without IDs and THEN put your ID laws in place.

whose vote is/ will be suppressed?

my main problem with voting is getting to the polls b/c I work

that's unfair

People without the "proper papers". 11% of the population does not have the ID required in many of these ID law states. 11% made up of poor people, old people and minorities that do not have a state issued photo ID.

Yes, that your boss is not required by law to give you time off to vote is unfair and even criminal in some states. It should be in all. So should waiting eight hours in line to vote.

if someone waits that long to vote, it's an organizational issue at the polling place.

If it's in a heavily populated minority district it's not the fault of GOPers

If I have to take time off work to get to the DMV, surely those poor oppressed 11% can get there too.

ps

if someone can't get to the dmv to get an ID, how in the hell are they going to get to the polls?

 

[Redfish]

Seriously this motherfucker is for reducing the early voting to prevent ACORN from cheating!!!

ACORN DOEST EXISTS!!

So he is against early voting to stop an organization that doesn't exist and for voter ID laws to stop a problem that also doesn't exist.

See a pattern?

acorn changed its name. it is still out there.

I am not against early voting, motherfucker. But I guess you think we should open the voting for 2016 tomorrow so all of the illegals and dead people can cast multiple votes.

But you have never told us why you object to proving who you are when you show up to vote.

lots of dem/lib rhetoric, but nothing logical or rational---you are a typical libtard.

and BTW, you started the insults. I can play that game too, if thats they way you want to proceed, ass licker.

 

[Redfish]

One fraudulent vote is too many, I agree. But Voter ID won't stop it.

As for your last sentence, that is a strawman fallacy. It is something you desperately wish to believe.

It will go a long way towards stopping it

Nope. Please explain how voter ID will stop a bad poll worker like the one in Oregon who changed a bunch of ballots to straight Republican tickets.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from voting in two different precincts.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from casting more than one absentee ballot.

Please explain how voter ID will purge a dead voter from the registration rolls.

Those are the kinds of actual fraud which occur. And voter ID will solve NONE of them.

So there is an entirely different reason for why you are being led by the nose toward demanding identity papers for everyone.

voter ID will not stop all voting fraud, no one claimed that it would. But it will stop the kind of fraud where someone is voting on someone else's registration.

and regardless of your left wing rhetoric, no one is disenfrachised by having to prove who they are when voting.

 

[kaz]

In fact, you cannot show any actual voter fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID.

So when dead people show up to vote, you're thinking the staffers aren't too focused on checking their ID's. I guess the ones who watch the Walking Dead are with you anyway.

And there are just hordes of blacks out there who are too lazy to get a free ID, but they will in fact show up at the polls.

Says a lot about your view of Obama and the people who vote for him...

Wait a minute.....I LOVE THE WALKING DEAD! And I am not with g5000!!

You might not support the dead voting like g5000, but you do agree that if a dead person walked in the last thing on your mind would be checking their ID though, right?

 

[Flopper]

Felons cant vote,dead people cant vote,illegal aliens cant vote.....but somehow they do.

This is akin to saying fish don't walk on water but somehow they do. When there is only ONE kind of fish that can do that I use that minor example as proof that it happens on a large scale.

No, the amount of dead people, felons and illegals voting equals up to the amount of fish that are able to walk on land. Which is small potatoes but you'd ask the govt to make walking trails for the fish AND ID requirements for voting for things that don't happen

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

If as you say, Democrats depended on illegal votes in order to win elections, voter id's would be useless because illegally voting as another person is so rare it would make no difference in any national election.

On one side of the issue you have right wing media citing isolated examples on the other you have studies done by justice department and a number of organizations all coming up with the same conclusion. Voter id fraud is extremely rare, so rare that a voter is far more likely to be struck by lightening than to vote illegally.

 

[kaz]

You should provide links. I don't believe you. I am intimately familiar with this subject. Nice try.

The only lawsuits have been to prevent IMPROPER maintenance of registration rolls. I have pointed those out in the past. In fact, one of the halts to an improper purge was initiated by a Republican county commissioner in Florida.

A distinction without a difference.

Wow. You think properly maintaining and improperly maintaining voter registration rolls is the same thing?

You people are seriously fucked in the head.

No, I think people like you are the reason I am learning to stop conversations once liberals start playing stupid word games. You knew perfectly well what I was referring to when I said liberals were suing over it. Rather then argue the point, you played word games.

If you want to argue seriously, I'll do it. If you want to play liberal fun and games, I'm not going to give you actual responses in return. Again, you knew perfectly well what I meant, and you played games. Either stop doing that or don't expect anyone to bother being serious with you.

 

[g5000]

A distinction without a difference.

Wow. You think properly maintaining and improperly maintaining voter registration rolls is the same thing?

You people are seriously fucked in the head.

No, I think people like you are the reason I am learning to stop conversations once liberals start playing stupid word games. You knew perfectly well what I was referring to when I said liberals were suing over it. Rather then argue the point, you played word games.

You were implying suits were filed to stop purges for the sake of stopping purges. That is not the case. They were filed to stop improper purges which were resulting in eligible citizens being purged.

Nice try, but you failed.

 

[kaz]

The percentage of fraud that would be stopped by requiring state issued photo IDs is less than 1%.

Did you know that 80% of statistics are made up on the spot?

I'll make you a deal. Let's have for one election cops at every voting station, and for everyone who doesn't produce a valid ID, the cops take them home and have them prove they were who they were. If we get a result of less than 1% fraud, we won't require ID's. Deal?

I'll donate $100 to the ACLU if you can explain what my point was. You don't have to agree with it, just say what my point was.

That ... is a safe offer. I always like how liberals consider themselves to be the intelligent party, and yet they pride themselves on not getting points because not getting someone's point is a clear demonstration of intelligence.

 

[kaz]

Wow. You think properly maintaining and improperly maintaining voter registration rolls is the same thing?

You people are seriously fucked in the head.

No, I think people like you are the reason I am learning to stop conversations once liberals start playing stupid word games. You knew perfectly well what I was referring to when I said liberals were suing over it. Rather then argue the point, you played word games.

You were implying suits were filed to stop purges for the sake of stopping purges. That is not the case. They were filed to stop improper purges for the sake of stopping citizens from being purged.

Nice try, but you failed.

You failed, but it wasn't a nice try. It was a lame as shit fail. .

 

[ClosedCaption]

It will go a long way towards stopping it

Nope. Please explain how voter ID will stop a bad poll worker like the one in Oregon who changed a bunch of ballots to straight Republican tickets.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from voting in two different precincts.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from casting more than one absentee ballot.

Please explain how voter ID will purge a dead voter from the registration rolls.

Those are the kinds of actual fraud which occur. And voter ID will solve NONE of them.

So there is an entirely different reason for why you are being led by the nose toward demanding identity papers for everyone.

voter ID will not stop all voting fraud, no one claimed that it would. But it will stop the kind of fraud where someone is voting on someone else's registration.

and regardless of your left wing rhetoric, no one is disenfrachised by having to prove who they are when voting.

So now "even one fraudulent vote" isn't what you're going with anymore because its unrealistic?

 

[g5000]

It will go a long way towards stopping it

Nope. Please explain how voter ID will stop a bad poll worker like the one in Oregon who changed a bunch of ballots to straight Republican tickets.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from voting in two different precincts.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from casting more than one absentee ballot.

Please explain how voter ID will purge a dead voter from the registration rolls.

Those are the kinds of actual fraud which occur. And voter ID will solve NONE of them.

So there is an entirely different reason for why you are being led by the nose toward demanding identity papers for everyone.

voter ID will not stop all voting fraud, no one claimed that it would. But it will stop the kind of fraud where someone is voting on someone else's registration.

You are still repeating this ridiculous fantasy!?!

For those who have not had the joy of experiencing this yet, Redfish believes MILLIONS of illegal aliens are voting under eligible voters' names.

No, really. He believes this even though it is impossible.

and regardless of your left wing rhetoric, no one is disenfrachised by having to prove who they are when voting.

Ipse dixit. The courts have found that some people actually are disenfranchised by some Voter ID laws.

 

[kaz]

and regardless of your left wing rhetoric, no one is disenfrachised by having to prove who they are when voting.

Ipse dixit. The courts have found that some people actually are disenfranchised by some Voter ID laws.

The liberal courts see what they want to see. Give us an example of a legal voter who can't get a free ID in any of the States that require an ID to vote.

 

[Redfish]

Nope. Please explain how voter ID will stop a bad poll worker like the one in Oregon who changed a bunch of ballots to straight Republican tickets.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from voting in two different precincts.

Please explain how voter ID will stop someone from casting more than one absentee ballot.

Please explain how voter ID will purge a dead voter from the registration rolls.

Those are the kinds of actual fraud which occur. And voter ID will solve NONE of them.

So there is an entirely different reason for why you are being led by the nose toward demanding identity papers for everyone.

voter ID will not stop all voting fraud, no one claimed that it would. But it will stop the kind of fraud where someone is voting on someone else's registration.

You are still repeating this ridiculous fantasy!?!

For those who have not had the joy of experiencing this yet, Redfish believes MILLIONS of illegal aliens are voting under eligible voters' names.

No, really. He believes this even though it is impossible.

and regardless of your left wing rhetoric, no one is disenfrachised by having to prove who they are when voting.

Ipse dixit. The courts have found that some people actually are disenfranchised by some Voter ID laws.

another lie by the resident idiot. No one knows how many illegals voted in the last election. Who knows how many illegals used power bills to register to vote even though they were not citizens?

Are you so naive that you think that did not happen?