Liberal logic on IDs and voting

[kwc57]

they can't explain it. they just feeeeeeeeeeeeeel like its evil.

And the deal is, getting a photo ID is so simple. I was an Assistant Scoutmaster for the 2005 Boy Scout National Jamboree. Back then, the Jambo was held at Fort AP Hill in Virginia. Since we flew to DC and toured prior to that and then went on a military base, every kid was required to have photo ID. Didn't have it, didn't fly or get on base. My son was 12 and I took him down to the DPS and for something like $10 walked out with a state of OKlahoma photo ID. Believe it or not........even the minority kids who went with us were able to get one.

Maybe getting an id is very simple for you, but that doesn't mean it is for everyone.

Perhaps you are new on this planet. Contrary to popular fairytales, life is neither fair or easy. Sometimes you have to lift a finger and exert a little effort. Getting an ID to drive, fly, enter a club, register for benefits, vote, etc. takes an ever so slight amount of effort, but well worth it to be a functioning member of society.

 

[g5000]

voter ID will not stop all voting fraud, no one claimed that it would. But it will stop the kind of fraud where someone is voting on someone else's registration.

You are still repeating this ridiculous fantasy!?!

For those who have not had the joy of experiencing this yet, Redfish believes MILLIONS of illegal aliens are voting under eligible voters' names.

No, really. He believes this even though it is impossible.

and regardless of your left wing rhetoric, no one is disenfrachised by having to prove who they are when voting.

Ipse dixit. The courts have found that some people actually are disenfranchised by some Voter ID laws.

another lie by the resident idiot. No one knows how many illegals voted in the last election. Who knows how many illegals used power bills to register to vote even though they were not citizens?

Are you so naive that you think that did not happen?

Yet you do not provide evidence. Besides, if the registration process is broken, then FIX THE REGISTRATION PROCESS.

And you did indeed claim in another Voter ID topic yesterday that millions of illegals were voting using eligible voters names. Something which is literally impossible.

 

[dblack]

and regardless of your left wing rhetoric, no one is disenfrachised by having to prove who they are when voting.

Ipse dixit. The courts have found that some people actually are disenfranchised by some Voter ID laws.

The liberal courts see what they want to see. Give us an example of a legal voter who can't get a free ID in any of the States that require an ID to vote.

It really isn't a question of "can't", it's a question of making it more inconvenient. This whole campaign is a numbers game, on both sides. Conservative 'voter id' advocates can crow all day long that all they're concerned about is the hallowed sanctity of our voting system. But we all know that's disingenuous. They're pursuing these new laws to push liberal voters out of the voting booth. If the situation were reversed, and the proposed changes actively discouraged conservatives from voting, you can bet they'd be opposed.

 

[kwc57]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

Fail.

There is no Constitutional right to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigarettes, to apply for public assistance, to use your Medicaid card, or to buy finger nail polish remover.

There is, however, a Constitutional right to vote.

Your premise is consequently a fallacy, you’re comparing two completely different things, totally unrelated to each other.

Because voting is a fundamental right, the greater burden is placed on the state to limit or restrict that right. The state is compelled to provide documented evidence that voter ‘fraud’ is of such a magnitude that the outcome of a given election might be changed.

There is no evidence of this, voter ‘fraud’ is in essence a conservative myth, a partisan contrivance of the right.

Please provide a cut and paste from the US Constitution where such a right exists. I'll make it easy for you, there is none. All the constitutional amendments regarding voting say is what you cannot use as a determination in denying the right to vote. True story! Look it up.

 

[kaz]

Ipse dixit. The courts have found that some people actually are disenfranchised by some Voter ID laws.

The liberal courts see what they want to see. Give us an example of a legal voter who can't get a free ID in any of the States that require an ID to vote.

It really isn't a question of "can't", it's a question of making it more inconvenient. This whole campaign is a numbers game, on both sides. Conservative 'voter id' advocates can crow all day long that all they're concerned about is the hallowed sanctity of our voting system. But we all know that's disingenuous. They're pursuing these new laws to push liberal voters out of the voting booth. If the situation were reversed, and the proposed changes actively discouraged conservatives from voting, you can bet they'd be opposed.

That doesn't answer the question. The statement was the "courts" said that some voters were "disenfranchised." You didn't give an example of that.

As for the Right and Left are the same spiel, they aren't. An example of that was New London where the "big business" Republicans opposed taking land from Grandma and giving it to a developer, and the anti-corporate liberals supported giving Grandma's land to a developer. Republicans have punished politicians including Newt, Livingston and Craig for moral failings, Democrats don't. Democrats are supposed to be the party for "women" but rallied to protect a President who committed sexual harassment. Republicans have some standards at least, Democrats have none.

 

[g5000]

That doesn't answer the question. The statement was the "courts" said that some voters were "disenfranchised." You didn't give an example of that.

I provided examples earlier in this topic.

 

[g5000]

As a conservative I am, by nature, conservative. When someone starts demanding the government make more rules, particularly rules which affect our rights, it is my conservative nature that says, "Whoa! Hold on there. Show me this is necessary and will prevent voter fraud."

No one has shown it is necessary or that it will prevent voter fraud. This strongly implies there is an entirely different motive behind the drive for identity papers.

It is baffling to me that people who believe they are conservatives have jumped on the need-moar-rulez bandwagon without exhibiting any of the vigor they normally deploy when opposing other proposed government regulations.

Identity papers appeal to the inner Nazi in people. We should proceed with extreme caution and consider the implications of the larger effort that is underway by Bush's DHS to get us all to carry national identity papers to make it easier for the security apparatus to track and control our movements.

Secure driver's licenses and identification documents are a vital component of a holistic national security strategy. Law enforcement must be able to rely on government-issued identification documents and know that the bearer of such a document is who he or she claims to be.

Department of Homeland Security

 

[kaz]

That doesn't answer the question. The statement was the "courts" said that some voters were "disenfranchised." You didn't give an example of that.

I provided examples earlier in this topic.

No, you didn't.

Read the entire 14 page thread before asking you a question. I wasn't expecting you to get lamer than your "duh, I don't get it" arguments, but you're there.

 

[kaz]

As a conservative I am, by nature, conservative.

You're on the left in every discussion I'm with you in. There is no such thing as a limited, absolute trust in government. You're not a conservative.

Hillary said she's a conservative. Ted Kennedy decried "extremism" in politics. There are a lot of people who don't have a grasp of who they are.

 

[gallantwarrior]

if Liberals had supreme power, they would allow pets and dead people to vote ,even five years after they have died, they would just re-use their ballots over and over again.

Liberals might not like the way animals would vote. Animals tend to be pretty honest, really.

 

[gallantwarrior]

One fraudulent vote is too many.

The bottom line here; if you are too stupid to get an ID, then you are probably too stupid to vote. But, we will still let you vote, we will give you a free ID. If you can make it to the polling place then you can make it to the DMV to get your free ID.

Dems object to voter ID because they depend on illegal votes in order to win elections-------they know it, we know it, everyone knows it.

When you are disenfranchising 100,000 voters for every one incident of fraud, this is not an acceptable ratio.

It's not necessarily the cost of the ID, it's the access to ID offices, the cost of the required associated paperwork and often a complete lack of that paperwork (born at home).

11% of votes cast are not fraudulent, we KNOW this. The percentage of fraud that would be stopped by requiring state issued photo IDs is less than 1%. That is an unacceptable ratio. Get it down below 2% without IDs and THEN put your ID laws in place.

whose vote is/ will be suppressed?

my main problem with voting is getting to the polls b/c I work

that's unfair

Because my residence is 80 miles away from where I work, I could get an absentee ballot and vote early. I prefer to make it to the polls whenever I can, but the option is available.

 

[Seawytch]

When you are disenfranchising 100,000 voters for every one incident of fraud, this is not an acceptable ratio.

It's not necessarily the cost of the ID, it's the access to ID offices, the cost of the required associated paperwork and often a complete lack of that paperwork (born at home).

11% of votes cast are not fraudulent, we KNOW this. The percentage of fraud that would be stopped by requiring state issued photo IDs is less than 1%. That is an unacceptable ratio. Get it down below 2% without IDs and THEN put your ID laws in place.

whose vote is/ will be suppressed?

my main problem with voting is getting to the polls b/c I work

that's unfair

Because my residence is 80 miles away from where I work, I could get an absentee ballot and vote early. I prefer to make it to the polls whenever I can, but the option is available.

No, the "option" isn't always available. That's another of those "state rights" things.

 

[gallantwarrior]

whose vote is/ will be suppressed?

my main problem with voting is getting to the polls b/c I work

that's unfair

Because my residence is 80 miles away from where I work, I could get an absentee ballot and vote early. I prefer to make it to the polls whenever I can, but the option is available.

No, the "option" isn't always available. That's another of those "state rights" things.

I didn't claim it was universally optional, but it is available where I live. Considering the vast distances and lack of ready access to most of our state, it only makes sense to allow absentee and early voting. Other states may view available access to be adequate without such accommodations.

 

[kaz]

whose vote is/ will be suppressed?

my main problem with voting is getting to the polls b/c I work

that's unfair

Because my residence is 80 miles away from where I work, I could get an absentee ballot and vote early. I prefer to make it to the polls whenever I can, but the option is available.

No, the "option" isn't always available. That's another of those "state rights" things.

And you hate that, don't you?

Different States have different rules, but I challenge you to name one you can't vote early.

Or it's just that they aren't forced to by the Imperial Federal Government and our Messiah, Obama, that chafes you?

 

[Redfish]

Because my residence is 80 miles away from where I work, I could get an absentee ballot and vote early. I prefer to make it to the polls whenever I can, but the option is available.

No, the "option" isn't always available. That's another of those "state rights" things.

And you hate that, don't you?

Different States have different rules, but I challenge you to name one you can't vote early.

Or it's just that they aren't forced to by the Imperial Federal Government and our Messiah, Obama, that chafes you?

wytchey "chafes" I could use that phrase in so many ways, but I will refrain.

 

[kwc57]

As a conservative I am, by nature, conservative.

You're on the left in every discussion I'm with you in. There is no such thing as a limited, absolute trust in government. You're not a conservative.

Hillary said she's a conservative. Ted Kennedy decried "extremism" in politics. There are a lot of people who don't have a grasp of who they are.

Jake Starkey......

 

[RichardMissing]

anyone wanna take a guess to how many Romney votes were thrown into the trash last year?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

anyone wanna take a guess to how many Romney votes were thrown into the trash last year?

Why guess?

Simply provide objective, documented evidence that ballots were ‘thrown out’ or that the level of ‘fraud’ in a given election changed the outcome of that election.

With such evidence a state may legally and Constitutionally require a photo ID to vote at every election.

 

[g5000]

I'm just wondering. When voter fraud continues to occur at the same rate in states that enact Voter ID, how hard will you guys have to stab yourselves in the ears and eyes to avoid that reality so your self-delusions can be maintained?

I bet Fox News and all the other hacks will be completely silent on this.

Rubes.

Papers! Papers, please!

 

[g5000]

Republican election fraud:

After pleading guilty on Monday for his involvement in a voter fraud scandal, former East Longmeadow Selectman Enrico ‘Jack’ Villamaino has learned his sentence.

He and his wife, Courtney Llewellyn, were charged in 2012 with changing the party affiliations for about 280 East Longmeadow voters. About a month after those changes were made, Mastroianni says that there was an almost “name-for-name match” for those people who had their enrollment changed from ‘Democrat’ to ‘Unenrolled.’

At that time, Villamaino was running for a seat in the Mass. House of Representatives against Marie Angelides.

Voter ID would not have stopped this.

Boy, you guys are going to be so shocked when election fraud keeps happening in Voter ID states!