Liberals Are Ruining Sports

[Harry Dresden]

Threads like this are the proof that cons are absolutely losing their minds.

Conservatives had nothing to do with doing away with keeping score because....it might hurt the little ones "self esteem"....

 

[candycorn]

Amazing the foolish statements here.
Private outside the school teams.
LOL, all that would give is the fathers with the most money would buy the team for their kids.
Respectfully, candycorn, you have no clue about competitive athletics and the positive results it has on kids.
School athletics ASSURES that the kids that work the hardest are the ones that play.
I know, I played 13 years of football in schools and one of my sons played 11.
I went to my high school reunion and have been to college reunion and the majority of the guys that played some kind of athletics or in the band or in some other activity have led a productive life influenced by team.
Same with my son as we went to a wedding last Saturday, SAME DAY as my high school reunionand saw young men, some that played from 2nd grade all the way through high school together, at the wedding.
All being productive hard working citizens.
Speaking in dollars and sense in high school as to if they make a profit is absurd.
We get back in society ten times or more what we pay out in the schools with these kids.
Athletics is valued in the schools and does a lot of good for a lifetime for the kids.
HOW DOES A POOR KID GET TO PLAY ANY OTHER WAY?

And you have statistics that bear this out, right==the 10X factor right?

It is fun to see football games on Friday night. It's fun to see softball games. It's fun to watch high school volleyball teams where there are actual vollies and not the 5 second vollies you see in pro volleyball.

But that is all it is; fun.

If it wasn't there, you'd see kids get interested in any number of other activities. And 30 years from now when they come to their reunions, they'd talk about them just as fondly.

Sports has an outsized place in our society...the highest paid State employees are often the football coaches at the university; they work 10 months a year at most. Many of them are not the least bit interested whether or not their students get educations on the whole

That same strain could be found in athletic departments at high schools as well to a certain degree. I think it would be less but if Nancy is disqualified due to her poor grades, her coach's first thought is that he/she lost their best left halfback or striker. It is their job, afterall.

 

[AceRothstein]

ESPN has ruined sports which is why I never watch it unless there is a live event on. For coverage I still to the league networks such as MLB or NHL.

 

[Gadawg73]

We should get the government (i.e. schools) out of sports all together. It's mission creep in the worst way.

Public school athletics does excellent things.

It's excellent at wasting money and possibly highlighting poorly aligned priorities; I'll grant you that.

Well, let us look at the facts and we are open to any and all of yours but so far all you offer is rank rhetoric:
Students that participate in athletics have a higher grade point average than students that do not participate.
They have higher attendance records.
They have lower dropout rates.
Far, far fewer discipline problems.
They learn the rewards of hard work, discipline, self discipline, sportsmanship.
They develop many skills to handle competitive situations.
Athletes do better in the classroom than other students. (1989 Women's Sport Foundation Study)
Students that are involved in athletics participate more in community volunteering in and out of school and are more socially involved than non athletes.
Students that are involved in athletics get along better with other races than non athletes. And the one area that I am seeing large change in is the acceptance of gay and lesbian athletes now as we have many pro football players behind that. Still a long way but that is next.
Boys that participate in athletics have a 2 to 1 advantage if they enter college to finish with a degree than non athletes.
92% of high school athletes do not use illegal drugs.
In high school most athletes take average to above average classes.
Survey of high school principals 1985:
95% believed participation in athletics teaches valuable lessons.
99% believed it makes good citizens.

Now tell us your data that athletics does not contribute to a better student and their ability to educate themselves.
Because to date all we have from you is hot air.

 

[candycorn]

Public school athletics does excellent things.

It's excellent at wasting money and possibly highlighting poorly aligned priorities; I'll grant you that.

Well, let us look at the facts and we are open to any and all of yours but so far all you offer is rank rhetoric:
Students that participate in athletics have a higher grade point average than students that do not participate.
They have higher attendance records.
They have lower dropout rates.
Far, far fewer discipline problems.
They learn the rewards of hard work, discipline, self discipline, sportsmanship.
They develop many skills to handle competitive situations.
Athletes do better in the classroom than other students. (1989 Women's Sport Foundation Study)
Students that are involved in athletics participate more in community volunteering in and out of school and are more socially involved than non athletes.
Students that are involved in athletics get along better with other races than non athletes. And the one area that I am seeing large change in is the acceptance of gay and lesbian athletes now as we have many pro football players behind that. Still a long way but that is next.
Boys that participate in athletics have a 2 to 1 advantage if they enter college to finish with a degree than non athletes.
92% of high school athletes do not use illegal drugs.
In high school most athletes take average to above average classes.
Survey of high school principals 1985:
95% believed participation in athletics teaches valuable lessons.
99% believed it makes good citizens.

Now tell us your data that athletics does not contribute to a better student and their ability to educate themselves.
Because to date all we have from you is hot air.

Link?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Liberals are running everything.... they can fuck up a wetdream... it's amazing.

 

[Gadawg73]

It's excellent at wasting money and possibly highlighting poorly aligned priorities; I'll grant you that.

Well, let us look at the facts and we are open to any and all of yours but so far all you offer is rank rhetoric:
Students that participate in athletics have a higher grade point average than students that do not participate.
They have higher attendance records.
They have lower dropout rates.
Far, far fewer discipline problems.
They learn the rewards of hard work, discipline, self discipline, sportsmanship.
They develop many skills to handle competitive situations.
Athletes do better in the classroom than other students. (1989 Women's Sport Foundation Study)
Students that are involved in athletics participate more in community volunteering in and out of school and are more socially involved than non athletes.
Students that are involved in athletics get along better with other races than non athletes. And the one area that I am seeing large change in is the acceptance of gay and lesbian athletes now as we have many pro football players behind that. Still a long way but that is next.
Boys that participate in athletics have a 2 to 1 advantage if they enter college to finish with a degree than non athletes.
92% of high school athletes do not use illegal drugs.
In high school most athletes take average to above average classes.
Survey of high school principals 1985:
95% believed participation in athletics teaches valuable lessons.
99% believed it makes good citizens.

Now tell us your data that athletics does not contribute to a better student and their ability to educate themselves.
Because to date all we have from you is hot air.

Link?[/QUOTEView attachment $Benefit_of_Activities_Handout.pdf

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Just look at the OWS bunch... there's the participation trophy crowd come home to roost.. a bunch of whiny, sniveling babies that can't tie their own shoe laces.

 

[Katzndogz]

That's why they need to bring back morals clauses I pro sports contracts. It would settle a lot of the controversy and make it much easier to dispose of an unwanted player. Bring it back for movies and television too.

 

[bendog]

Liberals? Conservatives? Sports? Maybe this makes some sense on Mars ... or maybe you need a tinfoil hat. LOL

 

[Unkotare]

So the schools still lose money on the enterprise. ...

Like every other aspect of public education. Hey, if you want to advocate doing away with public education, go for it. There are some solid arguments for it.

 

[Unkotare]

In your opinion....

In reality. Since millennium ago.

 

[Unkotare]

If a "community" has more than 1 high school, how do you determine which asone "represents" the "spirit of the commnity"? You can't.
...

Even more to my point, a friendly rivalry between schools encourages identification with one's school and involvement in the community. This is not so complicated. Again, you say you "made a lot of teams," but you sure sound bitter about something.

 

[Unkotare]

You can have some alumni who think they are somehow connected to the school they graduated by watching a football team. They could, of course, volunteer to tutor kids at that school as well but, hey, that means actual commitment.

Priorities......

If they don't feel connected to their school they are even less likely to do such things, aren't they?

 

[Unkotare]

Meanwhile, one of our prized athletes is about to be banned until 2016 for doping, a former MVP has been banned for 100+ games, dozens of former points of pride in the "local communiteis" can't show their face at the ballpark and get snubbed at the hall of fame every year. Capitalists players are interested in shopping their talent only to the highest bidder regardless of "community spirit". ...

If you want to talk about professional athletes, start a new thread for that separate discussion.

 

[Unkotare]

All of that is true and important but that isn't the point of school......

It is, as much as anything, an important part of "education."

 

[Unkotare]

Private enterprise could eliminate this needless tax burden. ...

You could outsource Math and Science to private enterprise too. Public schools suck at teaching those, and just think of all the money we'd save!

 

[Unkotare]

Physical education is important; playing your cross-town rival in field hockey isn't. Sorry. That is logic.

That is not logic, it is your own personal bitterness over something...

 

[bendog]

Meanwhile, one of our prized athletes is about to be banned until 2016 for doping, a former MVP has been banned for 100+ games, dozens of former points of pride in the "local communiteis" can't show their face at the ballpark and get snubbed at the hall of fame every year. Capitalists players are interested in shopping their talent only to the highest bidder regardless of "community spirit". ...

If you want to talk about professional athletes, start a new thread for that separate discussion.

A-Rod is the face on the first post of this thread. Frankly this thread is so crazy it speaks like voices to the schizophrenics. LOL

 

[candycorn]

Well, let us look at the facts and we are open to any and all of yours but so far all you offer is rank rhetoric:
Students that participate in athletics have a higher grade point average than students that do not participate.
They have higher attendance records.
They have lower dropout rates.
Far, far fewer discipline problems.
They learn the rewards of hard work, discipline, self discipline, sportsmanship.
They develop many skills to handle competitive situations.
Athletes do better in the classroom than other students. (1989 Women's Sport Foundation Study)
Students that are involved in athletics participate more in community volunteering in and out of school and are more socially involved than non athletes.
Students that are involved in athletics get along better with other races than non athletes. And the one area that I am seeing large change in is the acceptance of gay and lesbian athletes now as we have many pro football players behind that. Still a long way but that is next.
Boys that participate in athletics have a 2 to 1 advantage if they enter college to finish with a degree than non athletes.
92% of high school athletes do not use illegal drugs.
In high school most athletes take average to above average classes.
Survey of high school principals 1985:
95% believed participation in athletics teaches valuable lessons.
99% believed it makes good citizens.

Now tell us your data that athletics does not contribute to a better student and their ability to educate themselves.
Because to date all we have from you is hot air.

Link?

View attachment 27066

Ahh, thanks.


Here is what you said:

Students that participate in athletics have a higher grade point average than students that do not participate. They have higher attendance records.

Here is what your link says:

1992 study by the Colorado High School Activities Association and the
Colorado Department of Education revealed that Colorado high school students who
participate in some form of interscholastic activity have “significantly higher”
grade-point averages and better attendance

Not the same thing.

Here is what you said:

They have lower dropout rates.

Here is what your link says:

(1) By a 2-to-1
ratio, boys who participate in sports do better in school do not drop out and have a better chance to get through college. (2) The ratio for girls who participate in
sports and do well in school is 3-to-1.

Gee, if you had a chocolate fountain at the snack bar you'd likely get the same result. Sports are fun.

The "study" doesn't define what a "better chance" in college means or quantifies it.

However one source I found on the Internet breaks it down a bit:

The overall gap between Division I men's basketball players and the general full-time male student body is once again sizable (with the former group's graduation rate lagging by 20.6 percentage points), the new report states. Moreover, the gap for student-athletes in major conferences (a negative 32.4 percentage points) increased almost two points from the initial 2010 report's benchmark (a negative 30.8). The 2011 AGG for Division I women's basketball players (negative 9.4) is only slightly greater than last year's AGG (negative 8.9). The AGG for women competing in major conferences remained unchanged (at negative 14.6).

Basically the more time you spend on your sport, the less time you spend on your book work; nothing new there.

And the one area that I am seeing large change in is the acceptance of gay and lesbian athletes now as we have many pro football players behind that. Still a long way but that is next.

Can you cite any high school athlete that said such a thing that he now accepts homosexual lifestyles as a result of his sport?

Anyway...continuing on...

Here is what you said:

Survey of high school principals 1985:
95% believed participation in athletics teaches valuable lessons.
99% believed it makes good citizens.

Here is what your source says:

SURVEY OF HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPALS
In 1985, the National Federation of State High School Associations sponsored
a national survey of high school principals in all 50 states. The results showed:
* 95 percent believed that participation in activities teaches valuable lessons to
students that cannot be learned in a regular class routine.
* 99 percent agree that participation in activities promotes citizenship.
* 95 percent agreed that activity programs contribute to the development of
“school spirit” among the student body.
* 76 percent said they believe the demand made on students’ time by activities is not
excessive.
* 72 percent said there is strong support for school activity programs from
parents and the community at-large.

Again, they're not mentioning sports.

Again, I'm not decrying activities; just building stadiums....this $60M "learning facility" is being built in Allen, Texas.

That is $60 Million that didn't go to books, vocational training, field trips, new equipment in the science lab...a total waste that will likely be used for the fall of each year and not beyond.

And it's not just in Texas:

$1 Billion And Counting For State?s Taxpayer-Funded Stadiums | PA Independent

Now tell us your data that athletics does not contribute to a better student and their ability to educate themselves.
Because to date all we have from you is hot air

I never said athletics didn't contribute to a better student; I'm dubious that it is the ONLY thing that would make such a contribution and your source pretty much makes my case; participation is the key, not athletics.

There are some things you can only get from athletics. I will grant you that. Do you need to go across town on a Friday night and play a bunch of strangers to learn it? No...don't be silly.

And you certainly do not need to be doing it at the taxpayer's expense...

Missouri considers making bass fishing a high-school sport | PennLive.com

You know you're a redneck when.....
Seriously, our children barely pass with basic math and reading and this is the bullshit they come up with?
What the fuck is wrong with the adults in this country?