Liberals now calling fetus an "organ of her own body"

[Noomi]

I've seen babies that were born six months premature, that by your definition would still have been a "fetus." With assistance from those in the outside world, it did live without the nourishment of the umbilical and the safety of the womb.

Your argument is flawed.

No baby is born 6 months early. A four month old fetus cannot survive outside the womb - and once it is born, it is not as fetus. It is a fetus while inside, and attached to the woman. Once outside the womb, its a baby.

Love modern technology, so you're hagling over the months? What is your basis for life?

I am wanting him/her/it to admit that a baby will not survive if born 6 months early.

 

[OKTexas]

A fetus is a part of a woman's body for the duration of pregnancy. What is wrong with stating the truth?

Sorry, you're being intellectually dishonest on this one. Organs are formed during fetal development, not after sex. So how about we DO start with the truth.

A fetus is part of a woman's body. I said nothing about organs.

That was the premiss of the OP, Chomsky claiming the fetus was an organ of a woman's body. We both know that is not true. If I misunderstood your intent you have my apology.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Abortion affects me. I think this conversation involves my rights more than it involves yours.

So self centered. That attitude has lead to the deaths of millions of full grown adults in this world. No, abortion affects everyone.

Millions of adults have died? Because of what?

Abortion doesn't affect you. Your next door neighbor could have an abortion and you wouldn't be affected because you wouldn't know about it. You cannot be affected by something you are not aware of.

Do you pay attention in history class? Dictators are the most self centered people on Earth, and have been responsible for killing or letting die millions of people to further their own gains.

Your logic is flawed, because I know my next door neighbor personally. Another reason would be is that if it didn't affect me, why am I talking about it? Oh yeah, I survived an attempted abortion as a "fetus", through the use of contraceptives. It does affect me. If she had succeeded, I would not even be here arguing with you.

You have no reason to value life, but all the reason to justify taking it. Appalling.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No baby is born 6 months early. A four month old fetus cannot survive outside the womb - and once it is born, it is not as fetus. It is a fetus while inside, and attached to the woman. Once outside the womb, its a baby.

Love modern technology, so you're hagling over the months? What is your basis for life?

I am wanting him/her/it to admit that a baby will not survive if born 6 months early.

24 weeks is roughly 5 months in. Even so 4 months premature is rare, and in most cases results in the death of the child. But some have survived.

Stanley Nash, Baby Born Weighing One Pound, Survives After Premature Birth

Try reading it this time, sugar queen.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Ahahahahaha!

Noam Chomsky is a man, what does he know about a woman's body? This is rich!!

I guess its okay for you that Republican lawmakers are trying to control women's bodies as we speak? Hypocrite.

You have Democrat lawmakers doing the same thing. Please spare me your false outrage. Just what do you gain by saying "the government should stay out of my body", when it, on Capitol Hill constantly fights for the right to tell you how to control your body? One side telling you that you can't, the other that you can. But both sides make up the same Government for whom you wish to keep out of your insides.

This double standard is amazing with Liberal women. You have male lawmakers on the Democrat side making opinions on female anatomy all the time... wheres the outrage Noomi? Huh? I thought men weren't supposed to have a say so in this issue?

I thought as much. Have a seat.

You weigh the two sides as equal. They're not. Yes, both have men. That means they have something in common, but does not mean equality. One group of men wish to restrict women from the decision, the other group wants to give women the decision. Perhaps that clarifies why no one is outraged about your false double standard.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

so melodramatic. you suggested that an organ had to be functional and necessary for life. you were wrong. so I ask you again, noting your evasion, what constitutes an organ?

Your article notes that guy is one of the most cited academic in the world. I recommend you procure an educated counterargument if you want to disagree with him.

Chomsky is a linguist, maybe the best there is.

His political nattering does nothing to enhance his academic reputation.

I can agree with that. After all, it would take a linguish to spark a debate on splitting the meanings of words, which I have yet to hear defined, but continued to hear refuted.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

so melodramatic. you suggested that an organ had to be functional and necessary for life. you were wrong. so I ask you again, noting your evasion, what constitutes an organ?

Your article notes that guy is one of the most cited academic in the world. I recommend you procure an educated counterargument if you want to disagree with him.

I can trump his opinion quite easily.

I'm a mother of three children. He's the mother of none. And as each baby grew inside me, the wonder of life was miraculous.

Not an organ, not a fetus, not a parasite. A baby.

You can trump him? Interesting. I will admit my ignorance to his CV and credentials up front, but I'm going to assume he is educated, and utilizing his scientific background, as pointed out in the article.

Your credentials are having unprotected sex and finding yourself knocked up.

I would hardly say your uninformed life experiences trump his academic achievements.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I guess its okay for you that Republican lawmakers are trying to control women's bodies as we speak? Hypocrite.

You have Democrat lawmakers doing the same thing. Please spare me your false outrage. Just what do you gain by saying "the government should stay out of my body", when it, on Capitol Hill constantly fights for the right to tell you how to control your body? One side telling you that you can't, the other that you can. But both sides make up the same Government for whom you wish to keep out of your insides.

This double standard is amazing with Liberal women. You have male lawmakers on the Democrat side making opinions on female anatomy all the time... wheres the outrage Noomi? Huh? I thought men weren't supposed to have a say so in this issue?

I thought as much. Have a seat.

You weigh the two sides as equal. They're not. Yes, both have men. That means they have something in common, but does not mean equality. One group of men wish to restrict women from the decision, the other group wants to give women the decision. Perhaps that clarifies why no one is outraged about your false double standard.

LEgally I thought both parents were equal with their kids, did I miss something, that should also apply to prebirth. Women know they can get pregnant, I didnt do it, God or nature or whatever you believe in did it...but they all know it and it's not a suprise...that's why women have been the ones to really determine what goes down *wink, wink*.....so I dont feel sorry for them, and it's legally half the man's child.

As for her body, I bet you support lots of laws that prohibit people doing anything they want to their bodies.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Abortion control must be returned to the states and they can do what they want with it.

A fetus is a part of a woman's body for the duration of pregnancy. What is wrong with stating the truth?

Sorry, you're being intellectually dishonest on this one. Organs are formed during fetal development, not after sex. So how about we DO start with the truth.

Organs develop and change at various points in life. Fetal development is by far the largest such point, but puberty, ovulation, and conception also bring their own new changes to human tissues. So I will ask you as well: what defines an organ?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I guess its okay for you that Republican lawmakers are trying to control women's bodies as we speak? Hypocrite.

You have Democrat lawmakers doing the same thing. Please spare me your false outrage. Just what do you gain by saying "the government should stay out of my body", when it, on Capitol Hill constantly fights for the right to tell you how to control your body? One side telling you that you can't, the other that you can. But both sides make up the same Government for whom you wish to keep out of your insides.

This double standard is amazing with Liberal women. You have male lawmakers on the Democrat side making opinions on female anatomy all the time... wheres the outrage Noomi? Huh? I thought men weren't supposed to have a say so in this issue?

I thought as much. Have a seat.

You weigh the two sides as equal. They're not. Yes, both have men. That means they have something in common, but does not mean equality. One group of men wish to restrict women from the decision, the other group wants to give women the decision. Perhaps that clarifies why no one is outraged about your false double standard.

You're right. Women won't allow one side to legislate their reproductive rights, while letting the other go on unabated. Yea sure, your argument may have been viable in an alternate version of reality perhaps.

If men are not allowed to legislate or otherwise opine on female anatomy (as per the pro-choice premise), it kinda should work for both sides of the aisle. There is your double standard, and it takes a closed minded person to sit there and willfully ignore it.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I always find it interesting how the side that talks about preventing the interruption of natural developmental events always use modern medicine as a crutch: the very embodiment of unnatural intervention. A fetus is inside the uterus, a baby is the fetus after delivery. Many people don't like the word fetus or its connotation, and often times use "baby" for all parts of early human development. Nevertheless, fetus is correct before delivery.

A fetus cannot survive outside the uterus before 24 weeks gestational age, even with all the unnatural measures taken by modern medicine. There are the ridiculously rare exception to everything. Such is biology. Regardless, those babies that are born at such a young development and nurtured by artificial life supports do so with grievous irreparable damage to their frail bodies.

 

[buckeye45_73]

A fetus is a part of a woman's body for the duration of pregnancy. What is wrong with stating the truth?

Sorry, you're being intellectually dishonest on this one. Organs are formed during fetal development, not after sex. So how about we DO start with the truth.

Organs develop and change at various points in life. Fetal development is by far the largest such point, but puberty, ovulation, and conception also bring their own new changes to human tissues. So I will ask you as well: what defines an organ?

do you need a definition of is?
You realize babies dont stay in the mother, right? I've never seen a heart or a kidney fall out of a person, maybe you have.
You realize that if your mother had an abortion, you wouldnt be here, so would you say she made the right "choice"?
Would it have ended your life, hence killed you?

 

[OKTexas]

A fetus is a part of a woman's body for the duration of pregnancy. What is wrong with stating the truth?

Sorry, you're being intellectually dishonest on this one. Organs are formed during fetal development, not after sex. So how about we DO start with the truth.

Organs develop and change at various points in life. Fetal development is by far the largest such point, but puberty, ovulation, and conception also bring their own new changes to human tissues. So I will ask you as well: what defines an organ?

First and foremost it must contain 100% of the individuals DNA. Simple concept.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

You have Democrat lawmakers doing the same thing. Please spare me your false outrage. Just what do you gain by saying "the government should stay out of my body", when it, on Capitol Hill constantly fights for the right to tell you how to control your body? One side telling you that you can't, the other that you can. But both sides make up the same Government for whom you wish to keep out of your insides.

This double standard is amazing with Liberal women. You have male lawmakers on the Democrat side making opinions on female anatomy all the time... wheres the outrage Noomi? Huh? I thought men weren't supposed to have a say so in this issue?

I thought as much. Have a seat.

You weigh the two sides as equal. They're not. Yes, both have men. That means they have something in common, but does not mean equality. One group of men wish to restrict women from the decision, the other group wants to give women the decision. Perhaps that clarifies why no one is outraged about your false double standard.

LEgally I thought both parents were equal with their kids, did I miss something, that should also apply to prebirth. Women know they can get pregnant, I didnt do it, God or nature or whatever you believe in did it...but they all know it and it's not a suprise...that's why women have been the ones to really determine what goes down *wink, wink*.....so I dont feel sorry for them, and it's legally half the man's child.

As for her body, I bet you support lots of laws that prohibit people doing anything they want to their bodies.

You bring up an interesting point with regards to the father, and I must admit it's a can of worms I care not to open presently.

I am intrigued by your last line here though. To what are you referring? Drugs and such?

You have Democrat lawmakers doing the same thing. Please spare me your false outrage. Just what do you gain by saying "the government should stay out of my body", when it, on Capitol Hill constantly fights for the right to tell you how to control your body? One side telling you that you can't, the other that you can. But both sides make up the same Government for whom you wish to keep out of your insides.

This double standard is amazing with Liberal women. You have male lawmakers on the Democrat side making opinions on female anatomy all the time... wheres the outrage Noomi? Huh? I thought men weren't supposed to have a say so in this issue?

I thought as much. Have a seat.

You weigh the two sides as equal. They're not. Yes, both have men. That means they have something in common, but does not mean equality. One group of men wish to restrict women from the decision, the other group wants to give women the decision. Perhaps that clarifies why no one is outraged about your false double standard.

You're right. Women won't allow one side to legislate their reproductive rights, while letting the other go on unabated. Yea sure, your argument may have been viable in an alternate version of reality perhaps.

If men are not allowed to legislate or otherwise opine on female anatomy (as per the pro-choice premise), it kinda should work for both sides of the aisle. There is your double standard, and it takes a closed minded person to sit there and willfully ignore it.

I believe I'm so closed minded that I don't even understand the point you are making. Would you be so kind as to restate it please?

I am not claiming men shouldn't by allowed to legislate on female topics, if that is what you are referring to.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Sorry, you're being intellectually dishonest on this one. Organs are formed during fetal development, not after sex. So how about we DO start with the truth.

Organs develop and change at various points in life. Fetal development is by far the largest such point, but puberty, ovulation, and conception also bring their own new changes to human tissues. So I will ask you as well: what defines an organ?

First and foremost it must contain 100% of the individuals DNA. Simple concept.

Some pro choice women seem to think they have all the chromosomes. Men have one half, the woman the other half.

You nailed it!

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Sorry, you're being intellectually dishonest on this one. Organs are formed during fetal development, not after sex. So how about we DO start with the truth.

Organs develop and change at various points in life. Fetal development is by far the largest such point, but puberty, ovulation, and conception also bring their own new changes to human tissues. So I will ask you as well: what defines an organ?

do you need a definition of is?
You realize babies dont stay in the mother, right? I've never seen a heart or a kidney fall out of a person, maybe you have.
You realize that if your mother had an abortion, you wouldnt be here, so would you say she made the right "choice"?
Would it have ended your life, hence killed you?

No, I don't need a definition of is. I need a definition of ORGAN: the thing you claim something doesn't count for.

Are you saying organs need to stay in people at all times? So the placenta isn't an organ then? Removed organs aren't organs? You see the problem with avoiding a definition? You're making crap up as you go along which doesn't actually hold any consistency whatsoever.

And the "would you want your mother to retrospectively choose to abort you?" question is one of the largest logical fallacies you can possibly bring to the table regarding this topic. Unless you have a time machine, I recommend we stray from discussion on possible outcomes of impossible past decisions not taken.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You weigh the two sides as equal. They're not. Yes, both have men. That means they have something in common, but does not mean equality. One group of men wish to restrict women from the decision, the other group wants to give women the decision. Perhaps that clarifies why no one is outraged about your false double standard.

LEgally I thought both parents were equal with their kids, did I miss something, that should also apply to prebirth. Women know they can get pregnant, I didnt do it, God or nature or whatever you believe in did it...but they all know it and it's not a suprise...that's why women have been the ones to really determine what goes down *wink, wink*.....so I dont feel sorry for them, and it's legally half the man's child.

As for her body, I bet you support lots of laws that prohibit people doing anything they want to their bodies.

You bring up an interesting point with regards to the father, and I must admit it's a can of worms I care not to open presently.

I am intrigued by your last line here though. To what are you referring? Drugs and such?

You weigh the two sides as equal. They're not. Yes, both have men. That means they have something in common, but does not mean equality. One group of men wish to restrict women from the decision, the other group wants to give women the decision. Perhaps that clarifies why no one is outraged about your false double standard.

You're right. Women won't allow one side to legislate their reproductive rights, while letting the other go on unabated. Yea sure, your argument may have been viable in an alternate version of reality perhaps.

If men are not allowed to legislate or otherwise opine on female anatomy (as per the pro-choice premise), it kinda should work for both sides of the aisle. There is your double standard, and it takes a closed minded person to sit there and willfully ignore it.

I believe I'm so closed minded that I don't even understand the point you are making. Would you be so kind as to restate it please?

I am not claiming men shouldn't by allowed to legislate on female topics, if that is what you are referring to.

Weren't you just saying that there was no equality to be had among the sexes? Or was I on shrooms when I read that?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Organs develop and change at various points in life. Fetal development is by far the largest such point, but puberty, ovulation, and conception also bring their own new changes to human tissues. So I will ask you as well: what defines an organ?

do you need a definition of is?
You realize babies dont stay in the mother, right? I've never seen a heart or a kidney fall out of a person, maybe you have.
You realize that if your mother had an abortion, you wouldnt be here, so would you say she made the right "choice"?
Would it have ended your life, hence killed you?

No, I don't need a definition of is. I need a definition of ORGAN: the thing you claim something doesn't count for.

Are you saying organs need to stay in people at all times? So the placenta isn't an organ then? Removed organs aren't organs? You see the problem with avoiding a definition? You're making crap up as you go along which doesn't actually hold any consistency whatsoever.

And the "would you want your mother to retrospectively choose to abort you?" question is one of the largest logical fallacies you can possibly bring to the table regarding this topic. Unless you have a time machine, I recommend we stray from discussion on possible outcomes of impossible past decisions not taken.

Just as I had suspected.....No not all organs stay, but here's the thing, how many have another person's DNA, ZERO. It's a collection of cells that make up an item to run the body...it is not part of another person, which a baby is.

Did they teach you babies are organs in the same school that 2+2 =5...just make shit up.


Liberals are so desperate they actually try to use this arguement....Unbelievable..

And you're saying that a mother getting an abortion doesnt effect the baby? Are you dumb or stupid?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Sorry, you're being intellectually dishonest on this one. Organs are formed during fetal development, not after sex. So how about we DO start with the truth.

Organs develop and change at various points in life. Fetal development is by far the largest such point, but puberty, ovulation, and conception also bring their own new changes to human tissues. So I will ask you as well: what defines an organ?

First and foremost it must contain 100% of the individuals DNA. Simple concept.

So transplanted organs aren't real organs by your partial definition. Nor is the placenta. Nor are people with multiple different genomes comprising their body.

Let me call out the obvious here: an organ is a loosely defined word, and people get really upset when a fetus is referred to one, even though it can technically roughly fall into that loose definition. Bottom line. Does anyone disagree?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

LEgally I thought both parents were equal with their kids, did I miss something, that should also apply to prebirth. Women know they can get pregnant, I didnt do it, God or nature or whatever you believe in did it...but they all know it and it's not a suprise...that's why women have been the ones to really determine what goes down *wink, wink*.....so I dont feel sorry for them, and it's legally half the man's child.

As for her body, I bet you support lots of laws that prohibit people doing anything they want to their bodies.

You bring up an interesting point with regards to the father, and I must admit it's a can of worms I care not to open presently.

I am intrigued by your last line here though. To what are you referring? Drugs and such?

You're right. Women won't allow one side to legislate their reproductive rights, while letting the other go on unabated. Yea sure, your argument may have been viable in an alternate version of reality perhaps.

If men are not allowed to legislate or otherwise opine on female anatomy (as per the pro-choice premise), it kinda should work for both sides of the aisle. There is your double standard, and it takes a closed minded person to sit there and willfully ignore it.

I believe I'm so closed minded that I don't even understand the point you are making. Would you be so kind as to restate it please?

I am not claiming men shouldn't by allowed to legislate on female topics, if that is what you are referring to.

Weren't you just saying that there was no equality to be had among the sexes? Or was I on shrooms when I read that?

Either my text lacked clarity, or you were indeed on shrooms. HAHA!

Looking back, I see the confusion. Suffice it to say, I was refuting someone's claim on a closely related but distinct topic, not making one about gender equality. Sorry for the confusion.