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Iraq would have never bothered us at all if we had left it alone in 1991.
I agree we should have let Sadam annex Kuwait. It's not like the Kuwaitis are grateful!
If we didn't invade then Sadam would have still been our friend, we would be getting cheap oil from Sadam and the Saudis and Sadam Sunni Iraq would have been the polarizing force to the Ayatollahs Shia Iran!
Yep, thats Nevil Chamberlain thought when he allowed Hitler to annex Austria and parts of Czechleslovakia. Pease in our time he said. World War II followed. If Saddam had been allowed to annex Kuwait, Saudi Arabia would have been overrun soon after. Then, a madman would be in charge of most of the world's energy supply and allowed to manipulate the global economy and the planet when ever he wanted to. Saddam would have more control and impact on the rest of the world than HITLER ever did by overruning most of Europe in the 1940s.
I agree we should have let Sadam annex Kuwait. It's not like the Kuwaitis are grateful!
If we didn't invade then Sadam would have still been our friend, we would be getting cheap oil from Sadam and the Saudis and Sadam Sunni Iraq would have been the polarizing force to the Ayatollahs Shia Iran!
Yep, thats Nevil Chamberlain thought when he allowed Hitler to annex Austria and parts of Czechleslovakia. Pease in our time he said. World War II followed. If Saddam had been allowed to annex Kuwait, Saudi Arabia would have been overrun soon after. Then, a madman would be in charge of most of the world's energy supply and allowed to manipulate the global economy and the planet when ever he wanted to. Saddam would have more control and impact on the rest of the world than HITLER ever did by overruning most of Europe in the 1940s.
Doesn't Iraq have a large boarder with Saudi Arabia? There was no need to capture Kuwait first if his goal was to take over the majority of the worlds known oil reserves. But telling the world that we have satellite images of Iraqi troops massing along the Saudi boarder sure got the war mongers blood boiling. Anyone ever see those satellite images.......didn't think so!
When Iran started winning, Raygun supported Saddam with money and replacement parts for his military. In fact Raygun opened the flood gates on Western technology sales from our allies too. That's how Saddam was able to aquire his advanced Chemical and Biological weapons and start his clandestine nuclear bomb program.
France's involvement in Iraq's nuclear program started in the mid-1970s five years before Saddam ever invaded Kuwait. The Iraqi's already had manufatured their own chemical weapons before the start of the Iran-Iraq war and first used them in 1982!The Soviet Union, not the United States was the primary supplier of weapons to Iraq. In fact, the Soviet Union and China sold Iraq 100% of its main battle tanks, armored personal carriers, and 80% of its artillery and combat aircraft. There were over 1,000 Soviet military personal on the ground in Iraq training Iraq Republican Guard forces for the entire Iran/Iraq war. Of the funding that came from western and middle eastern countries, only about 5% came from the United States. The United States did provide Saddam with 5 Billion dollars, transport helicopters, technical support and repair for electronics and computers and several hundred trucks for military transport. No actual weapons, although Iraq did legally obtain biological stocks that could later be weaponized. But those biological stocks were available to any country not under sanctions.
Saddam's Iraq was a client state of the Soviet Union. Ironically while the United States did assist Iraq, it provided no actual weapons. It did provide 2,000 Tow missiles to Iraq's enemy Iran during the Iran/contra deal.
Mustard gas is not an advanced chemical weapon. When the Iran/Iraq war started the USSR embargoed arms sales to Iraq. Hence the need to supply him with Soviet spare parts.
The Teicher Affidavit: Iraq-Gate
From The Teicher Affidavit: Following is the sworn court declaration of former NSC official Howard Teicher, dated 1/31/95, regarding 'Iraqgate.' The document is currently under seal by the US District Court, Southern District of Florida. The original document bears Teicher's dated signature.
13. The United States and the CIA maintained a program known as
the 'Bear Spares" program whereby the United States made sure that spare
parts and ammunition for Soviet or Soviet-style weaponry were available to
countries which sought to reduce their dependence on the Soviets for
defense needs. If the "Bear Spares" were manufactured outside the United
States, then the United States could arrange for the provision of these
weapons to a third country without direct involvement. Israel, for
example, had a very large stockpile of Soviet weaponry and ammunition
captured during its various wars. At the suggestion of the United States,
the Israelis would transfer the spare parts and weapons to third countries
or insurgent movements (such as the Afghan rebels and the Contras).
Similarly, Egypt manufactured weapons and spare parts from Soviet designs
and porvided these weapons and ammunition to the Iraqis and other
countries. Egypt also served as a supplier for the Bear Spares program.
The United States approved, assisted and encouraged Egypt's manufacturing
capabilities. The United States approved, assisted and encouraged Egypt's
sale of weaponry, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.
14. The mere request to a third party to carry out an action did
not constitute a "covert action," and, accordingly, required no
Presidential Finding or reporting to Congress. The supply of Cardoen
cluster bombs, which were fitted for use on Soviet, French and NATO
aircraft, was a mere extension fo the United States policy of assisting
Iraq through all legal means in order to avoid an Iranian victory.
15. My NSC files are currently held in trhe President Ronald
Reagan Presidential Archives in Simi Valley, California. My files will
contain my notes and memoranda from meetings I attended with CIA director
Casey or CIA Deputy Director Gates which included discussions of Cardoen's
manufacture and sale of cluster bombs to Iraq. My NSC files will also
contain cable traffic among various United States agencies, embassies and
other parties relating to Cardoen and his sale of cluster bombs and other
munitions to Iraq and other Middle Eastern states.
Raygun took Iraq off the nations who support terrorism and that opened the floodgates for our allies to start selling him Western Technology.
Yep, thats Nevil Chamberlain thought when he allowed Hitler to annex Austria and parts of Czechleslovakia. Pease in our time he said. World War II followed. If Saddam had been allowed to annex Kuwait, Saudi Arabia would have been overrun soon after. Then, a madman would be in charge of most of the world's energy supply and allowed to manipulate the global economy and the planet when ever he wanted to. Saddam would have more control and impact on the rest of the world than HITLER ever did by overruning most of Europe in the 1940s.
Doesn't Iraq have a large boarder with Saudi Arabia? There was no need to capture Kuwait first if his goal was to take over the majority of the worlds known oil reserves. But telling the world that we have satellite images of Iraqi troops massing along the Saudi boarder sure got the war mongers blood boiling. Anyone ever see those satellite images.......didn't think so!
Its true Saudi Arabia has a long boarder with Iraq, but there are few if any major roads that cross it. In addition, the major Suadi oil fields are near the coast and just to the south of Kuwait. Once you get out to the Iraqi/Saudi border it is really just desert with few if any roads. Without GPS, most people get lost. The Iraqi's consider it impassable to military forces because of this which is why almost no Iraqi divisions were deployed along the Saudi/Iraqi border as the deadline for Iraq to leave Kuwait neared. Iraq never feared a flanking manuver by coalition forces from that area(Iraqi/Saudi border) because they believed it was not possible to cross it with large military units.
But with GPS, this was no problem, and that is how the United States Seventh Corp crossed that area and hit the Iraqi Republican Guard divisions from the flank during the 1991 Gulf War.
So Kuwait was vital due to its road network for any Iraqi invasion of Saudi Arabia. Major Saudi oil fields were also closer to the coast just south of Kuwait.
Finally, Iraq moved over 10 armored and mechanized divisions into Kuwait during the first few days of the invasion and occupation. That was far more than what was needed to defeat Kuwaits tiny military. These extra forces would have only been needed for a further advance into Saudi Arabia or for defending against a more immediate counter attack by western nations.
The United States invaded Iraq to protect its own security, not to liberate the Iraqi's although that was a good side effect. The Iraqi people had risen up dozens of times to try and overthrow Saddam. Saddam slaughtered 300,000 Shia and Kurds in the aftermath of the 1991 Gulf War when significant portions of both ethnic groups rose up against him. Thats 300,000 in just a few months! The most bloody episodes in Iraq's history occured while Saddam was in power, not after. Over a million were killed in his bloody invasion and war with Iran. These numbers are many times greater than the numbers seen killed in the aftermath of the US invasion.
Yes, there were several elements of Iraqi society that resisted the US invasion, but there were also several elements that fought against Iraqi insurgents and fought to help preserve the work that the United States was doing in Iraq. The Iraqi insurgents lost. The United States won. The government that the United States help to install is still there.
Saddam invaded and attacked four different countries while he was in power, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Israel. He threatened the worlds vital oil supplies in the persian gulf with siezure and sabotage. The global economy is dependent on such energy supplies for survival. In 1990, Saddam invaded and annexed Kuwait, cutting off an important portion of global oil supplies which would later cause the 1991 recession. The United States and coalition attacked Iraq's forces in Kuwait and successfully removed them from the country as well as invading much of southern Iraq. The United States agreed to leave Saddam in power, but only on the condition that he be disarmed of all WMD, and be put permanently under sanctions and a weapons embargo to help contain Saddam from rebuilding his military and threatening Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the region.
The sanctions and weapons embargo put in place to help contain Saddam and prevent him from rebuilding his military started to fall in apart in 1999. Neighboring countries like Syria stopped enforcing it and started to benefit from Saddam's black market selling of oil. China violated the sanctions and weapons embargo by helping to install a new air defense system to help Iraq shoot at US Air Craft patrolling the no fly zones in southern Iraq and Northern Iraq. France and Russia also started violating the sanctions and embargo. With the means of containment collapsing, regime change became the only option to PREVENT Saddam from rebuilding his military and WMD capacity. Thats why it became a necessity to remove Saddam's regime from power in 2003!
Saddam's regime, is the first since Adolf Hitler in the 1940s to INVADE and ANNEX another independent country! Saddam's regime, is also the first since World War I to use chemical weapons against another country.
So no, there are not plenty of other kinds of leaders like Saddam. In the modern world, Saddam is unique and one of a kind.
Whatever helps you sleep better at night my friend. And if you are trying to convince me that the U.S. invasion of Iraq was justified on our part, just stop lol you are wasting your time, as I will NEVER believe what we did in Iraq was "justified."
Well, there are some people who will NEVER believe that any war the United States has been in was ever justified including World War II.
Republicans helped them write their religion into their constitution:
Full Text of Iraqi Constitution
Article 2:
First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:
A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.
What do Republicans think about the fact they built an Islamic right wing country and thousands of Americans died and trillions spent to do it?
What do Democrats think of the FACT that we didn't step in and try to mirror our own beliefs or echo our own constitution onto their culture?
Doesn't Iraq have a large boarder with Saudi Arabia? There was no need to capture Kuwait first if his goal was to take over the majority of the worlds known oil reserves. But telling the world that we have satellite images of Iraqi troops massing along the Saudi boarder sure got the war mongers blood boiling. Anyone ever see those satellite images.......didn't think so!
Its true Saudi Arabia has a long boarder with Iraq, but there are few if any major roads that cross it. In addition, the major Suadi oil fields are near the coast and just to the south of Kuwait. Once you get out to the Iraqi/Saudi border it is really just desert with few if any roads. Without GPS, most people get lost. The Iraqi's consider it impassable to military forces because of this which is why almost no Iraqi divisions were deployed along the Saudi/Iraqi border as the deadline for Iraq to leave Kuwait neared. Iraq never feared a flanking manuver by coalition forces from that area(Iraqi/Saudi border) because they believed it was not possible to cross it with large military units.
But with GPS, this was no problem, and that is how the United States Seventh Corp crossed that area and hit the Iraqi Republican Guard divisions from the flank during the 1991 Gulf War.
So Kuwait was vital due to its road network for any Iraqi invasion of Saudi Arabia. Major Saudi oil fields were also closer to the coast just south of Kuwait.
Finally, Iraq moved over 10 armored and mechanized divisions into Kuwait during the first few days of the invasion and occupation. That was far more than what was needed to defeat Kuwaits tiny military. These extra forces would have only been needed for a further advance into Saudi Arabia or for defending against a more immediate counter attack by western nations.
On September 11, 1990, Bush also told a joint session of Congress that "following negotiations and promises by Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein not to use force, a powerful army invaded its trusting and much weaker neighbor, Kuwait. Within three days, 120,000 troops with 850 tanks had poured into Kuwait and moved south to threaten Saudi Arabia. It was then I decided to act to check that aggression." However, according to Jean Heller of the St. Petersburg Times (of Florida), the facts just weren't as Bush claimed. Satellite photographs taken by the Soviet Union on the precise day Bush addressed Congress failed to show any evidence of Iraqi troops in Kuwait or massing along the Kuwait-Saudi Arabian border. While the Pentagon was claiming as many as 250,000 Iraqi troops in Kuwait, it refused to provide evidence that would contradict the Soviet satellite photos. U.S. forces, encampments, aircraft, camouflaged equipment dumps, staging areas and tracks across the desert can easily be seen. But as Peter Zimmerman, formerly of the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency in the Reagan Administration, and a former image specialist for the Defense Intelligence Agency, who analyzed the photographs for the St. Petersburg Times said:
We didn't find anything of that sort [i.e. comparable to the U.S. buildup] anywhere in Kuwait. We don't see any tent cities, we don't see congregations of tanks, we can't see troop concentrations, and the main Kuwaiti air base appears deserted. It's five weeks after the invasion, and from what we can see, the Iraqi air force hasn't flown a single fighter to the most strategic air base in Kuwait. There is no infrastructure to support large numbers of people. They have to use toilets, or the functional equivalent. They have to have food.... But where is it? On September 18, 1991, only a week after the Soviet photos were taken, the Pentagon was telling the American public that Iraqi forces in Kuwait had grown to 360,000 men and 2,800 tanks. But the photos of Kuwait do not show any tank tracks in southern Kuwait. They clearly do show tracks left by vehicles which serviced a large oil field, but no tank tracks. Heller concludes that as of January 6, 1991, the Pentagon had not provided the press or Congress with any proof at all for an early buildup of Iraqi troops in southern Kuwait that would suggest an imminent invasion of Saudi Arabia. The usual Pentagon evidence was little more than "trust me." But photos from Soviet commercial satellites tell quite a convincing story.
............
President Bush avoided diplomacy and negotiations, even refusing to send Secretary of State Baker to meet Saddam Hussein before the January 15, 1991 deadline as he had promised on November 30, 1990. Bush also rejected Iraq's withdrawal offer of February 15, 1991, two days aver U.S. planes incinerated hundreds of women and children sleeping in the al-Arneriyah bomb shelter. The Iraqis immediately agreed to the Soviet proposal of February 18, 1991 - that is four days before the so-called ground war was launched - which required Iraq to abide by all UN resolutions.
The U.S. ground war against Iraqi positions resulted in the greatest number of casualties in the conflict. As many as 50,000 to 100,000 Iraqi soldiers may have died after the Iraqi government had fully capitulated to all U.S. and UN demands. It is thus obvious that the U.S. government did not fight the war to secure Iraq's eviction from Kuwait but rather proceeded with this unparalleled massacre for other foreign policy objectives. These objectives have never been defined for the broader public but only referred to euphemistically under the rubric of the New World Order.
U.S. Conspiracy to Initiate the War Against Iraq
Whatever helps you sleep better at night my friend. And if you are trying to convince me that the U.S. invasion of Iraq was justified on our part, just stop lol you are wasting your time, as I will NEVER believe what we did in Iraq was "justified."
Well, there are some people who will NEVER believe that any war the United States has been in was ever justified including World War II.
Well I have NEVER met anyone who thought WWII wasn't justified, not have I read any articles or stories written about WWII not being justified. At least on the Allied Powers side. I can go with you on the Axis Powers side. They were far from justified.
As for our post-WWII military actions, yes, many people are split whether we were justified. Were we justified for:
Korean War (1950-1953
Vietnam (1961-1973)
Intervention in Dominican Republic (1965)
Lebanon (1982)
Grenada (1983)
Panama (1989)
Gulf War I (1991)
Somalia (1993)
Haiti (1994)
Bosnia (1994-1995)
Kosovo (1999)
Afghanistan (2001)
Iraq (2003)
????Iran (2013)???
That's nothing compared to our illegal and immoral invasion, which created over 4.5 million refugees.It is estimated that more than 500,000 were displaced, 95,000 of them to Iran, 300,000 internally displaced, and the remainder to other countries.
That's nothing compared to our illegal and immoral invasion, which created over 4.5 million refugees.It is estimated that more than 500,000 were displaced, 95,000 of them to Iran, 300,000 internally displaced, and the remainder to other countries.
What do Republicans think about the fact they built an Islamic right wing country and thousands of Americans died and trillions spent to do it?
What do Democrats think of the FACT that we didn't step in and try to mirror our own beliefs or echo our own constitution onto their culture?
Well that's just fucking stupid. Why invade another country? And coming from Republicans? When they want to limit women's rights, end gay rights, and target minorities in this country? And they don't want to "step in" in another country costing thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of maimed Americans and trillions of dollars????? But don't "step in"?
Just when I think I've heard it all.....
What do Democrats think of the FACT that we didn't step in and try to mirror our own beliefs or echo our own constitution onto their culture?
Well that's just fucking stupid. Why invade another country? And coming from Republicans? When they want to limit women's rights, end gay rights, and target minorities in this country? And they don't want to "step in" in another country costing thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of maimed Americans and trillions of dollars????? But don't "step in"?
Just when I think I've heard it all.....
If we had mirrored our own Constitution, which you Progressives seem to despise anyway, you'd be accusing us of forcing our beliefs on them.
We let the citizens decide our what form of government they wanted.
Cheney agreed with Bush I on not pursuing Saddam.
Cheney '94: Invading Baghdad Would Create Quagmire - YouTube
No their hate speech comes from an interpretation of their religious book that calls for them to take the world over by force.
Republicans helped them write their religion into their constitution:
Full Text of Iraqi Constitution
Article 2:
First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:
A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.
What do Republicans think about the fact they built an Islamic right wing country and thousands of Americans died and trillions spent to do it?
Well that's just fucking stupid. Why invade another country? And coming from Republicans? When they want to limit women's rights, end gay rights, and target minorities in this country? And they don't want to "step in" in another country costing thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of maimed Americans and trillions of dollars????? But don't "step in"?
Just when I think I've heard it all.....
If we had mirrored our own Constitution, which you Progressives seem to despise anyway, you'd be accusing us of forcing our beliefs on them.
We let the citizens decide our what form of government they wanted.
Too bad they weren't asked before the invasion if they wanted help.
