‘Living fossil’ rediscovered in Pacific Ocean after 273 million years

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not a genetic mutation, no more than a person with blue eyes.

Which was first caused by a mutation.

Goddamn son, you really know less that nothing about any of this.

 

[Crepitus]

Because we all know this is the pinnacle of evolution so therefore it looks identical to it’s kin 273 million years ago.

'Living fossil' rediscovered after 273 million years

Paleontologists have re-discovered a symbiotic marine marriage that was previously thought too have disappeared from fossil record 273 million years ago.

nypost.com

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you don't believe in evolution and think God created all life, please explain why over 90% of species that have lived on this planet are now extinct? Poor workmanship?

The universe is in a state of decay since the FALL of ADAM.

Sorry but that conflicts with the fossil evidence since 90+% of species alive today appeared well after the world began and life appeared.

Sorry, but fossils are rarely made today... And water and mud and pressure and speed are the primary materials needed for the formation of fossils ------- which would likely point to a catastrophic event of a rare magnitude. The animals discovered in fossils are primarily the ones that would not float, and were quickly buried. Birds, and small animals would survive for a time in trees or on floating islands of vegetation --- but not for a year... Such remains would quickly decay and be food for aquatic organisms.

Fossils are incredibly rare in any time. A one in a billion chance. That why there aren't very many compared to the billions of years the earth has been around and all the things that have lived and died on it during that time.

Not during a massive worldwide catastrophic FLOOD. The kind that never happened before and will never occur again.

Huh?

 

[Crepitus]

Because we all know this is the pinnacle of evolution so therefore it looks identical to it’s kin 273 million years ago.

'Living fossil' rediscovered after 273 million years

Paleontologists have re-discovered a symbiotic marine marriage that was previously thought too have disappeared from fossil record 273 million years ago.

nypost.com

They found that back in the 1970s, why is it news today?

Uh?
And tell us why 5 decades is relevant to a 273 million year old topic.

Because we all know this is the pinnacle of evolution so therefore it looks identical to it’s kin 273 million years ago.

'Living fossil' rediscovered after 273 million years

Paleontologists have re-discovered a symbiotic marine marriage that was previously thought too have disappeared from fossil record 273 million years ago.

nypost.com

They found that back in the 1970s, why is it news today?

Uh?
And how is 5 decades make science of a 273 million year old topic irrelevant?

Because it's not new. You're five decades late.

 

[Hollie]

Evolution: it's an inexorable that forces creatures to adapt and improve,

Actually, it doesn't force anything. Genetic mutation occur in offspring that doesn't affect in any way the parents. The parents of the mutation continue on, having children just like themselves that will survive, or not, based on local conditions.

There’s no such thing as a mutation that’s beneficial.

No such thing as a beneficial mutation?

Good gawd, man.

CB101: Most mutations harmful?

Claim CB101:​

Most mutations are harmful, so the overall effect of mutations is harmful.

Source:​

Morris, Henry M. 1985. Scientific Creationism. Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 55-57.
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 100.

Response:​

1. Most mutations are neutral. Nachman and Crowell estimate around 3 deleterious mutations out of 175 per generation in humans (2000). Of those that have significant effect, most are harmful, but the fraction which are beneficial is higher than usually though. An experiment with E. coli found that about 1 in 150 newly arising mutations and 1 in 10 functional mutations are beneficial (Perfeito et al. 2007).
   
   The harmful mutations do not survive long, and the beneficial mutations survive much longer, so when you consider only surviving mutations, most are beneficial.
   
   
2. Beneficial mutations are commonly observed. They are common enough to be problems in the cases of antibiotic resistance in disease-causing organisms and pesticide resistance in agricultural pests (e.g., Newcomb et al. 1997; these are not merely selection of pre-existing variation.) They can be repeatedly observed in laboratory populations (Wichman et al. 1999). Other examples include the following:
   • Mutations have given bacteria the ability to degrade nylon (Prijambada et al. 1995).
   • Plant breeders have used mutation breeding to induce mutations and select the beneficial ones (FAO/IAEA 1977).
   • Certain mutations in humans confer resistance to AIDS (Dean et al. 1996; Sullivan et al. 2001) or to heart disease (Long 1994; Weisgraber et al. 1983).
   • A mutation in humans makes bones strong (Boyden et al. 2002).
   • Transposons are common, especially in plants, and help to provide beneficial diversity (Moffat 2000).
   • In vitro mutation and selection can be used to evolve substantially improved function of RNA molecules, such as a ribozyme (Wright and Joyce 1997).
3. Whether a mutation is beneficial or not depends on environment. A mutation that helps the organism in one circumstance could harm it in another. When the environment changes, variations that once were counteradaptive suddenly become favored. Since environments are constantly changing, variation helps populations survive, even if some of those variations do not do as well as others. When beneficial mutations occur in a changed environment, they generally sweep through the population rapidly (Elena et al. 1996).

News Feature: Genetic mutations you want

To cure disease, researchers are starting to scour the genomes of the abnormally healthy. In 2009, researchers at the Broad Institute in Boston, led by geneticist David Altshuler, started recruiting elderly, overweight individuals who, by all accounts, ought to have type 2 diabetes but didn’t...

www.pnas.org

Beneficial Mutation–Selection Balance and the Effect of Linkage on Positive Selection

When beneficial mutations are rare, they accumulate by a series of selective sweeps. But when they are common, many beneficial mutations will occur before any can fix, so there will be many different mutant lineages in the population concurrently. In ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[alang1216]

The difference between science and religion is that every bit of data in science can be independently verified. You can dig up your own set of rocks and run them through a mass spectrometer so you don't have to accept anyone's word.

Verified like species being identical to their kin from hundreds of millions of years ago?

Mass spectrometry tells you the age of rocks? Do tell!

And please include in your report to the class a chapter on superposition.

Species evolve in response to changes in their environment. No change in one means no change in the other.

A mass spec will reveal the ratio of isotopes which will set a range of ages.

Young rocks are generally found lying on older ones.

 

[K9Buck]

please explain why over 90% of species that have lived on this planet are now extinct

So that disproves the existence of a creator?

 

[alang1216]

That may all be true but I have yet to see anyone perform a miracle like those in the Bible.

The miracles of the Bible all point towards the SAVIOR. The SAVIOR has come. Miracles will not renew to that point until HIS return.

I thought the Apostles performed miracles?

 

[alang1216]

please explain why over 90% of species that have lived on this planet are now extinct

So that disproves the existence of a creator?

I'd say it disproves the story of Genesis as being historical.

 

[Care4all]

Because we all know this is the pinnacle of evolution so therefore it looks identical to it’s kin 273 million years ago.

'Living fossil' rediscovered after 273 million years

Paleontologists have re-discovered a symbiotic marine marriage that was previously thought too have disappeared from fossil record 273 million years ago.

nypost.com

We've explored less than 1% of our oceans... Read the Moon surface has been explored more...

I have no idea how any claims of what is extinct in our oceans can even be made with any kind of accuracy?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Because we all know this is the pinnacle of evolution so therefore it looks identical to it’s kin 273 million years ago.

'Living fossil' rediscovered after 273 million years

Paleontologists have re-discovered a symbiotic marine marriage that was previously thought too have disappeared from fossil record 273 million years ago.

nypost.com

We've explored less than 1% of our oceans... Read the Moon surface has been explored more...

I have no idea how any claims of what is extinct in our oceans can even be made with any kind of accuracy?

Yes, you have no idea.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Evolution: it's an inexorable that forces creatures to adapt and improve,

Actually, it doesn't force anything. Genetic mutation occur in offspring that doesn't affect in any way the parents. The parents of the mutation continue on, having children just like themselves that will survive, or not, based on local conditions.

There’s no such thing as a mutation that’s beneficial.

No such thing as a beneficial mutation?

Good gawd, man.

CB101: Most mutations harmful?

Claim CB101:​

Most mutations are harmful, so the overall effect of mutations is harmful.

Source:​

Morris, Henry M. 1985. Scientific Creationism. Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 55-57.
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 100.

Response:​

1. Most mutations are neutral. Nachman and Crowell estimate around 3 deleterious mutations out of 175 per generation in humans (2000). Of those that have significant effect, most are harmful, but the fraction which are beneficial is higher than usually though. An experiment with E. coli found that about 1 in 150 newly arising mutations and 1 in 10 functional mutations are beneficial (Perfeito et al. 2007).
   
   The harmful mutations do not survive long, and the beneficial mutations survive much longer, so when you consider only surviving mutations, most are beneficial.
   
   
2. Beneficial mutations are commonly observed. They are common enough to be problems in the cases of antibiotic resistance in disease-causing organisms and pesticide resistance in agricultural pests (e.g., Newcomb et al. 1997; these are not merely selection of pre-existing variation.) They can be repeatedly observed in laboratory populations (Wichman et al. 1999). Other examples include the following:
   • Mutations have given bacteria the ability to degrade nylon (Prijambada et al. 1995).
   • Plant breeders have used mutation breeding to induce mutations and select the beneficial ones (FAO/IAEA 1977).
   • Certain mutations in humans confer resistance to AIDS (Dean et al. 1996; Sullivan et al. 2001) or to heart disease (Long 1994; Weisgraber et al. 1983).
   • A mutation in humans makes bones strong (Boyden et al. 2002).
   • Transposons are common, especially in plants, and help to provide beneficial diversity (Moffat 2000).
   • In vitro mutation and selection can be used to evolve substantially improved function of RNA molecules, such as a ribozyme (Wright and Joyce 1997).
3. Whether a mutation is beneficial or not depends on environment. A mutation that helps the organism in one circumstance could harm it in another. When the environment changes, variations that once were counteradaptive suddenly become favored. Since environments are constantly changing, variation helps populations survive, even if some of those variations do not do as well as others. When beneficial mutations occur in a changed environment, they generally sweep through the population rapidly (Elena et al. 1996).

News Feature: Genetic mutations you want

To cure disease, researchers are starting to scour the genomes of the abnormally healthy. In 2009, researchers at the Broad Institute in Boston, led by geneticist David Altshuler, started recruiting elderly, overweight individuals who, by all accounts, ought to have type 2 diabetes but didn’t...

www.pnas.org

Beneficial Mutation–Selection Balance and the Effect of Linkage on Positive Selection

When beneficial mutations are rare, they accumulate by a series of selective sweeps. But when they are common, many beneficial mutations will occur before any can fix, so there will be many different mutant lineages in the population concurrently. In ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There’s no such thing as a ‘new gene’.
Something in a living creature having something become dominant is still working with the same pot.

 

[Weatherman2020]

please explain why over 90% of species that have lived on this planet are now extinct

So that disproves the existence of a creator?

I'd say it disproves the story of Genesis as being historical.

In your dreams.
The fact there are hundreds of thousands of species that have not changed over millions of years tosses the racist Darwin out the window.

 

[Unkotare]

Because we all know this is the pinnacle of evolution so therefore it looks identical to it’s kin 273 million years ago.

'Living fossil' rediscovered after 273 million years

Paleontologists have re-discovered a symbiotic marine marriage that was previously thought too have disappeared from fossil record 273 million years ago.

nypost.com

Was Hillary Clinton on the beach somewhere in California?

 

[fncceo]

The fact there are hundreds of thousands of species that have not changed over millions of years tosses the racist Darwin out the window.

Actually, it doesn't. Mutations are random and only affect the offspring. The parents of the mutation, and all of their other offspring remain unchanged. Only the offspring of the original mutation pass on the new traits.

 

[K9Buck]

If evolution is so beneficial, why then are so many dog breeds genetically predisposed to various genetic ailments? After numerous generations, wouldn't evolution weed out the hereditary deficiencies?

 

[Hollie]

Evolution: it's an inexorable that forces creatures to adapt and improve,

Actually, it doesn't force anything. Genetic mutation occur in offspring that doesn't affect in any way the parents. The parents of the mutation continue on, having children just like themselves that will survive, or not, based on local conditions.

There’s no such thing as a mutation that’s beneficial.

No such thing as a beneficial mutation?

Good gawd, man.

CB101: Most mutations harmful?

Claim CB101:​

Most mutations are harmful, so the overall effect of mutations is harmful.

Source:​

Morris, Henry M. 1985. Scientific Creationism. Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 55-57.
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 100.

Response:​

1. Most mutations are neutral. Nachman and Crowell estimate around 3 deleterious mutations out of 175 per generation in humans (2000). Of those that have significant effect, most are harmful, but the fraction which are beneficial is higher than usually though. An experiment with E. coli found that about 1 in 150 newly arising mutations and 1 in 10 functional mutations are beneficial (Perfeito et al. 2007).
   
   The harmful mutations do not survive long, and the beneficial mutations survive much longer, so when you consider only surviving mutations, most are beneficial.
   
   
2. Beneficial mutations are commonly observed. They are common enough to be problems in the cases of antibiotic resistance in disease-causing organisms and pesticide resistance in agricultural pests (e.g., Newcomb et al. 1997; these are not merely selection of pre-existing variation.) They can be repeatedly observed in laboratory populations (Wichman et al. 1999). Other examples include the following:
   • Mutations have given bacteria the ability to degrade nylon (Prijambada et al. 1995).
   • Plant breeders have used mutation breeding to induce mutations and select the beneficial ones (FAO/IAEA 1977).
   • Certain mutations in humans confer resistance to AIDS (Dean et al. 1996; Sullivan et al. 2001) or to heart disease (Long 1994; Weisgraber et al. 1983).
   • A mutation in humans makes bones strong (Boyden et al. 2002).
   • Transposons are common, especially in plants, and help to provide beneficial diversity (Moffat 2000).
   • In vitro mutation and selection can be used to evolve substantially improved function of RNA molecules, such as a ribozyme (Wright and Joyce 1997).
3. Whether a mutation is beneficial or not depends on environment. A mutation that helps the organism in one circumstance could harm it in another. When the environment changes, variations that once were counteradaptive suddenly become favored. Since environments are constantly changing, variation helps populations survive, even if some of those variations do not do as well as others. When beneficial mutations occur in a changed environment, they generally sweep through the population rapidly (Elena et al. 1996).

News Feature: Genetic mutations you want

To cure disease, researchers are starting to scour the genomes of the abnormally healthy. In 2009, researchers at the Broad Institute in Boston, led by geneticist David Altshuler, started recruiting elderly, overweight individuals who, by all accounts, ought to have type 2 diabetes but didn’t...

www.pnas.org

Beneficial Mutation–Selection Balance and the Effect of Linkage on Positive Selection

When beneficial mutations are rare, they accumulate by a series of selective sweeps. But when they are common, many beneficial mutations will occur before any can fix, so there will be many different mutant lineages in the population concurrently. In ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There’s no such thing as a ‘new gene’.
Something in a living creature having something become dominant is still working with the same pot.

Is that along the same, phony claim, “there are no beneficial mutations”?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Evolution: it's an inexorable that forces creatures to adapt and improve,

Actually, it doesn't force anything. Genetic mutation occur in offspring that doesn't affect in any way the parents. The parents of the mutation continue on, having children just like themselves that will survive, or not, based on local conditions.

There’s no such thing as a mutation that’s beneficial.

No such thing as a beneficial mutation?

Good gawd, man.

CB101: Most mutations harmful?

Claim CB101:​

Most mutations are harmful, so the overall effect of mutations is harmful.

Source:​

Morris, Henry M. 1985. Scientific Creationism. Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 55-57.
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 100.

Response:​

1. Most mutations are neutral. Nachman and Crowell estimate around 3 deleterious mutations out of 175 per generation in humans (2000). Of those that have significant effect, most are harmful, but the fraction which are beneficial is higher than usually though. An experiment with E. coli found that about 1 in 150 newly arising mutations and 1 in 10 functional mutations are beneficial (Perfeito et al. 2007).
   
   The harmful mutations do not survive long, and the beneficial mutations survive much longer, so when you consider only surviving mutations, most are beneficial.
   
   
2. Beneficial mutations are commonly observed. They are common enough to be problems in the cases of antibiotic resistance in disease-causing organisms and pesticide resistance in agricultural pests (e.g., Newcomb et al. 1997; these are not merely selection of pre-existing variation.) They can be repeatedly observed in laboratory populations (Wichman et al. 1999). Other examples include the following:
   • Mutations have given bacteria the ability to degrade nylon (Prijambada et al. 1995).
   • Plant breeders have used mutation breeding to induce mutations and select the beneficial ones (FAO/IAEA 1977).
   • Certain mutations in humans confer resistance to AIDS (Dean et al. 1996; Sullivan et al. 2001) or to heart disease (Long 1994; Weisgraber et al. 1983).
   • A mutation in humans makes bones strong (Boyden et al. 2002).
   • Transposons are common, especially in plants, and help to provide beneficial diversity (Moffat 2000).
   • In vitro mutation and selection can be used to evolve substantially improved function of RNA molecules, such as a ribozyme (Wright and Joyce 1997).
3. Whether a mutation is beneficial or not depends on environment. A mutation that helps the organism in one circumstance could harm it in another. When the environment changes, variations that once were counteradaptive suddenly become favored. Since environments are constantly changing, variation helps populations survive, even if some of those variations do not do as well as others. When beneficial mutations occur in a changed environment, they generally sweep through the population rapidly (Elena et al. 1996).

News Feature: Genetic mutations you want

To cure disease, researchers are starting to scour the genomes of the abnormally healthy. In 2009, researchers at the Broad Institute in Boston, led by geneticist David Altshuler, started recruiting elderly, overweight individuals who, by all accounts, ought to have type 2 diabetes but didn’t...

www.pnas.org

Beneficial Mutation–Selection Balance and the Effect of Linkage on Positive Selection

When beneficial mutations are rare, they accumulate by a series of selective sweeps. But when they are common, many beneficial mutations will occur before any can fix, so there will be many different mutant lineages in the population concurrently. In ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There’s no such thing as a ‘new gene’.
Something in a living creature having something become dominant is still working with the same pot.

Is that along the same, phony claim, “there are no beneficial mutations”?

Name one beneficial mutation.
One.

And not just a gene becoming dominant. A NEW gene.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The fact there are hundreds of thousands of species that have not changed over millions of years tosses the racist Darwin out the window.

Actually, it doesn't. Mutations are random and only affect the offspring. The parents of the mutation, and all of their other offspring remain unchanged. Only the offspring of the original mutation pass on the new traits.

There’s no such thing as a mutation that is beneficial……

 

[Hollie]

Evolution: it's an inexorable that forces creatures to adapt and improve,

Actually, it doesn't force anything. Genetic mutation occur in offspring that doesn't affect in any way the parents. The parents of the mutation continue on, having children just like themselves that will survive, or not, based on local conditions.

There’s no such thing as a mutation that’s beneficial.

No such thing as a beneficial mutation?

Good gawd, man.

CB101: Most mutations harmful?

Claim CB101:​

Most mutations are harmful, so the overall effect of mutations is harmful.

Source:​

Morris, Henry M. 1985. Scientific Creationism. Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 55-57.
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 100.

Response:​

1. Most mutations are neutral. Nachman and Crowell estimate around 3 deleterious mutations out of 175 per generation in humans (2000). Of those that have significant effect, most are harmful, but the fraction which are beneficial is higher than usually though. An experiment with E. coli found that about 1 in 150 newly arising mutations and 1 in 10 functional mutations are beneficial (Perfeito et al. 2007).
   
   The harmful mutations do not survive long, and the beneficial mutations survive much longer, so when you consider only surviving mutations, most are beneficial.
   
   
2. Beneficial mutations are commonly observed. They are common enough to be problems in the cases of antibiotic resistance in disease-causing organisms and pesticide resistance in agricultural pests (e.g., Newcomb et al. 1997; these are not merely selection of pre-existing variation.) They can be repeatedly observed in laboratory populations (Wichman et al. 1999). Other examples include the following:
   • Mutations have given bacteria the ability to degrade nylon (Prijambada et al. 1995).
   • Plant breeders have used mutation breeding to induce mutations and select the beneficial ones (FAO/IAEA 1977).
   • Certain mutations in humans confer resistance to AIDS (Dean et al. 1996; Sullivan et al. 2001) or to heart disease (Long 1994; Weisgraber et al. 1983).
   • A mutation in humans makes bones strong (Boyden et al. 2002).
   • Transposons are common, especially in plants, and help to provide beneficial diversity (Moffat 2000).
   • In vitro mutation and selection can be used to evolve substantially improved function of RNA molecules, such as a ribozyme (Wright and Joyce 1997).
3. Whether a mutation is beneficial or not depends on environment. A mutation that helps the organism in one circumstance could harm it in another. When the environment changes, variations that once were counteradaptive suddenly become favored. Since environments are constantly changing, variation helps populations survive, even if some of those variations do not do as well as others. When beneficial mutations occur in a changed environment, they generally sweep through the population rapidly (Elena et al. 1996).

News Feature: Genetic mutations you want

To cure disease, researchers are starting to scour the genomes of the abnormally healthy. In 2009, researchers at the Broad Institute in Boston, led by geneticist David Altshuler, started recruiting elderly, overweight individuals who, by all accounts, ought to have type 2 diabetes but didn’t...

www.pnas.org

Beneficial Mutation–Selection Balance and the Effect of Linkage on Positive Selection

When beneficial mutations are rare, they accumulate by a series of selective sweeps. But when they are common, many beneficial mutations will occur before any can fix, so there will be many different mutant lineages in the population concurrently. In ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There’s no such thing as a ‘new gene’.
Something in a living creature having something become dominant is still working with the same pot.

Is that along the same, phony claim, “there are no beneficial mutations”?

Name one beneficial mutation.
One.

And not just a gene becoming dominant. A NEW gene.

Good gawd, man.

More on the origination of new protein-coding genes

pandasthumb.org

Recently, we learned of an instance of the de novo origination of a new protein-coding gene in yeasts. This instance involved a mechanism or pathway that seems difficult to some, namely the random appearance of an open reading frame in an otherwise noncoding segment of DNA via judicious appearance of translation start and stop codons. The question naturally arises as to the relevance of such a pathway to real-life biology; was/is this a rather rare event that doesn’t really contribute to protein evolution, or is it a common means by which the protein-coding capacity of a genome is augmented?

 

[Hollie]

The fact there are hundreds of thousands of species that have not changed over millions of years tosses the racist Darwin out the window.

Actually, it doesn't. Mutations are random and only affect the offspring. The parents of the mutation, and all of their other offspring remain unchanged. Only the offspring of the original mutation pass on the new traits.

There’s no such thing as a mutation that is beneficial……

Except for the mutations that are beneficial.