London on Lockdown

[recklesslogic]

Ravi, I have been reading your exchanges with English Dave for some time now and to be fair. He is coming across as someone that's stating facts and giving an honest opinion on his experience of the country he lives in. You on the other hand are coming across as defensive and simply shouting 'Racist' and 'Fascist' in order to somehow try and silence the argument into your favour.

This is the reason why nothing will ever change in the UK. Because every time anyone expresses an opinion on the disastrous immigration policies of the UK and a welfare system that is being abused by people from every corner of the world, someone like you pops their head up and squeeks 'Racists'.

Why don't you try discussing things openly and intelligently with any knowledge and experience that you may have? Rather than trying to silence people with cheap and poorly judged insults.

There are people in this world going unheard who are stating the bleeding obvious on all manner of issues and are simply ignored by Governments or shouted down by the blind. One day we may just look back and think of where it all started to go wrong and who we should have listened to in the beginning.

By then it might just be too late.

 

[California Girl]

That is a potential nightmare as if they do and they are families which they likely will be they will probably move them to another area. Not only that, certainly in Scotland they try to move them to better areas in the home that will improve their behaviour but obviously it just gives the new people the problem.

I am leaning towards some good old 'restorative justice' for many of these kids. Not the ringleaders, but the followers. Kids are quite easily led and tend not to consider the consequence of their actions. That does not mean we should excuse their behavior completely. I would suggest that they are made to go back into the communities they have devastated and clean up after themselves - of course, much of the 'clean up' has been done but they can help rebuild what they damaged.... and it would teach them practical skills as well as having them pay back their communities.

That was suggested on Question Time last night. It could result in them also learning some skills which could be of benefit to them for getting a job. Done properly it could be very positive.

I can see a benefit in moving them. If those kids had burned my home, I would not want them back living near me with no consequence.

Thing is a lot were not doing damage in their own community and they know that. If they were damaging their own community there would be a case for that but I get the impression it is just going to happen regardless of what they have done and if they had been no problems to the community would seem silly. It is just going to move the problem on - according to Cameron to private housing.

I think it would be good if things were a bit more fluid than they seem to be. For instance one 23 year old with no criminal record, on his way home with his girlfriend came upon a shop which had been looted and thought what the hell and took some water worth just over £3. He has been given a 6 month prison sentence. I think that is ridiculous. Of course what he did was wrong, but he was not out looting, just a bad decision in a moment may cost him his adult life - or I guess that will go to appeal.

I am all for a total review of the education system too. Stop trying to ram all these kids into universities. Most of them are not capable of achieving a degree and it would be pointless. You need more apprenticeships and vocational courses in schools to help these kids get skills that are desperately needed in the UK. And, you need to stop this out of control immigration - so that these kids have jobs.

well according to that teacher whose article I put in earlier their are a regular 13 - 20% who barely learn to read. If a kid does not get reading by 7 they usually never do - or at least that was what it used to be like.

I would not be in favour of anything resembling the old secondary modern's. You simply cannot tell a person's potential at that young age but I would at least like to see no child getting to seven without learning to read and write (unless of course their is a genuine reason for it). There really isn't any reason why these kids should not be able to achieve as well as anyone else. The previous governments 'early start' was beginning to see results. Unfortunately all these things have been dramatically cut. They need to know that they can aspire to just the same as anyone else and that can of course include apprentiships.

You also need to deal with social support as there does not seem to be that much going on in the family, so you need good, strong community workers.

What the heck, there is only one thing for it - increase taxes

What they need is to spend money smarter, not spend more money. Actually, it is the British attitude of throwing more money at issues that has helped create this clusterfuck. If they had not spent decades handing people money without any requirement to 'earn' it, people would not have a 'benefits mentality'. There are areas of Britain where, generation after generation has never worked. That cannot be right and no country can survive when a huge proportion of it's citizenry are taking without giving. I pay taxes in the UK. I will not pay one more fucking penny until someone can prove they can spend it wisely.

The 'social scientists' who created this welfare monstrosity got it wrong. They know that. That's why, suddenly, you brought in 'welfare to work' instead of the old system. These people must work. It is better for them - and better for the country.

I just hope that Cameron is better than the last bunch of incompetent idiots. Somebody needs to get a grip on this.

I am, however, highly amused that your answer is 'raise taxes'. Clueless.

 

[High_Gravity]

Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.

You know "people are people"

It would become a shit hole, sorry but thats what I think.

 

[recklesslogic]

10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a dirt field.

The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.

The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:

. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)

8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.

The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)

7. A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony.

The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:

And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205)

6. A wife may remarry her ex-husband if and only if she marries another man, they have sex, and then this second man divorces her.

The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:

And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. (In that case) there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)

5. Slave-girls are sexual property for their male owners.

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319).

4. A man may be polygamous with up to four wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says:

And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 305)

3. A Muslim polygamist may simply get rid of one of his undesirable wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:129 says:

It is not within your power to be perfectly equitable in your treatment with all your wives, even if you wish to be so; therefore, (in order to satisfy the dictates of Divine Law) do not lean towards one wife so as to leave the other in a state of suspense. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 381)

2. Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded—as if domestic violence in any form is acceptable).

The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:

4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.

1. Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.

The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says:

65:1 O Prophet, when you (and the believers) divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting-period and count the waiting-period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)

Any takers???

 

[alexa]

I am leaning towards some good old 'restorative justice' for many of these kids. Not the ringleaders, but the followers. Kids are quite easily led and tend not to consider the consequence of their actions. That does not mean we should excuse their behavior completely. I would suggest that they are made to go back into the communities they have devastated and clean up after themselves - of course, much of the 'clean up' has been done but they can help rebuild what they damaged.... and it would teach them practical skills as well as having them pay back their communities.

That was suggested on Question Time last night. It could result in them also learning some skills which could be of benefit to them for getting a job. Done properly it could be very positive.



Thing is a lot were not doing damage in their own community and they know that. If they were damaging their own community there would be a case for that but I get the impression it is just going to happen regardless of what they have done and if they had been no problems to the community would seem silly. It is just going to move the problem on - according to Cameron to private housing.

I think it would be good if things were a bit more fluid than they seem to be. For instance one 23 year old with no criminal record, on his way home with his girlfriend came upon a shop which had been looted and thought what the hell and took some water worth just over £3. He has been given a 6 month prison sentence. I think that is ridiculous. Of course what he did was wrong, but he was not out looting, just a bad decision in a moment may cost him his adult life - or I guess that will go to appeal.

I am all for a total review of the education system too. Stop trying to ram all these kids into universities. Most of them are not capable of achieving a degree and it would be pointless. You need more apprenticeships and vocational courses in schools to help these kids get skills that are desperately needed in the UK. And, you need to stop this out of control immigration - so that these kids have jobs.

well according to that teacher whose article I put in earlier their are a regular 13 - 20% who barely learn to read. If a kid does not get reading by 7 they usually never do - or at least that was what it used to be like.

I would not be in favour of anything resembling the old secondary modern's. You simply cannot tell a person's potential at that young age but I would at least like to see no child getting to seven without learning to read and write (unless of course their is a genuine reason for it). There really isn't any reason why these kids should not be able to achieve as well as anyone else. The previous governments 'early start' was beginning to see results. Unfortunately all these things have been dramatically cut. They need to know that they can aspire to just the same as anyone else and that can of course include apprentiships.

You also need to deal with social support as there does not seem to be that much going on in the family, so you need good, strong community workers.

What the heck, there is only one thing for it - increase taxes

What they need is to spend money smarter, not spend more money. Actually, it is the British attitude of throwing more money at issues that has helped create this clusterfuck. If they had not spent decades handing people money without any requirement to 'earn' it, people would not have a 'benefits mentality'.

If they had provided full employment then this mentality would never have been created.

There are areas of Britain where, generation after generation has never worked. That cannot be right and no country can survive when a huge proportion of it's citizenry are taking without giving. I pay taxes in the UK. I will not pay one more fucking penny until someone can prove they can spend it wisely.

Since Thatcherism. Since the concept of full employment was thrown out the window. Not before.

The 'social scientists' who created this welfare monstrosity got it wrong. They know that. That's why, suddenly, you brought in 'welfare to work' instead of the old system. These people must work. It is better for them - and better for the country.

Well tell that to Sir Keith Joseph. It was quite wrong imagining people could survive without work unable to go by the norms of society and and not become antisocial.

Regarding welfare to work. I haven't studied it at great length but it doesn't look enormously different from other previous programs apart from it's intention to get people who are currently considered sick back working. May well end up as a lot of money down the drain.

I am, however, highly amused that your answer is 'raise taxes'. Clueless.

If there isn't money to pay for needed services then taxes seem like the way to get them. You are expecting to get the money from where - taking people who are sick off incapacity benefit perhaps and making them sign onto work even though they aren't capable. You do know that Jobcentre's had to get special information how to deal with people at risk of suicide through this new process, don't you....but yes, got it, you will get the money by putting the sick on Jobseeker's allowance and reducing their benefit by about £40. The people who will pay for changes are the poorest and most vulnerable in society. Yes, I have a clue, just different priorities to you.

The internal document was sent to the Guardian by a senior jobcentre employee who has worked for the DWP for more than 20 years. It was accompanied by a letter from the source that said: "Absolutely nobody has ever seen this guidance before, leading staff to believe it has been put together ahead of the incapacity benefit and disability living allowance cuts."

Jobcentre staff 'sent guidelines on how to deal with claimants' suicide threats' | Society | The Guardian

 

[Ravi]

Ravi, I have been reading your exchanges with English Dave for some time now and to be fair. He is coming across as someone that's stating facts and giving an honest opinion on his experience of the country he lives in. You on the other hand are coming across as defensive and simply shouting 'Racist' and 'Fascist' in order to somehow try and silence the argument into your favour.

This is the reason why nothing will ever change in the UK. Because every time anyone expresses an opinion on the disastrous immigration policies of the UK and a welfare system that is being abused by people from every corner of the world, someone like you pops their head up and squeeks 'Racists'.

Why don't you try discussing things openly and intelligently with any knowledge and experience that you may have? Rather than trying to silence people with cheap and poorly judged insults.

There are people in this world going unheard who are stating the bleeding obvious on all manner of issues and are simply ignored by Governments or shouted down by the blind. One day we may just look back and think of where it all started to go wrong and who we should have listened to in the beginning.

By then it might just be too late.

Whose sock puppet are you?

 

[recklesslogic]

Smooth Ravi, I think you would find that with a tub of vaseline you would make a much better sock puppet than I would.

Is that the best you can do? All you did was prove my point...... 'Why don't you try discussing things openly and intelligently with any knowledge and experience that you may have? Rather than trying to silence people with cheap and poorly judged insults.'

 

[alexa]

Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.

You know "people are people"

Where did Ravi talk about her belief that England would be 100% Muslim? I can't find the post.

How did this thread even become about Muslims? What relevance do they have to the thread apart of course for the dreadful murders in Birmingham?

 

[Ravi]

Smooth Ravi, I think you would find that with a tub of vaseline you would make a much better sock puppet than I would.

Is that the best you can do? All you did was prove my point...... 'Why don't you try discussing things openly and intelligently with any knowledge and experience that you may have? Rather than trying to silence people with cheap and poorly judged insults.'

 

[recklesslogic]

Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.

You know "people are people"

Where did Ravi talk about her belief that England would be 100% Muslim? I can't find the post.

How did this thread even become about Muslims? What relevance do they have to the thread apart of course for the dreadful murders in Birmingham?

Thats fair enough Alexa, it is all too easy to get onto muslims. We should get used to it though, watch this space for continued conflict and terrorism.

 

[Ravi]

David Cameron said Thursday he would seek advice from U.S. cities that have fought gangs, including Boston, Los Angeles and New York.


British PM Seeks Gang Violence Solutions in US | Europe | English

 

[alexa]

Ravi thinks if England became 100% Muslim, nothing would change.

You know "people are people"

Where did Ravi talk about her belief that England would be 100% Muslim? I can't find the post.

How did this thread even become about Muslims? What relevance do they have to the thread apart of course for the dreadful murders in Birmingham?

Thats fair enough Alexa, it is all too easy to get onto muslims. We should get used to it though, watch this space for continued conflict and terrorism.

Your not Grant are you?

 

[recklesslogic]

Where did Ravi talk about her belief that England would be 100% Muslim? I can't find the post.

How did this thread even become about Muslims? What relevance do they have to the thread apart of course for the dreadful murders in Birmingham?

Thats fair enough Alexa, it is all too easy to get onto muslims. We should get used to it though, watch this space for continued conflict and terrorism.

Your not Grant are you?

grant??

 

[alexa]

The riots on the streets of London, Bristol, Liverpool and Birmingham are just a precursor of what is to become a more and more regular occurrence as the make-up of our once-fair country begins increasingly to resemble that of the third world.

The riots in our cities are not a result of ‘youth disillusionment’ or so-called ‘police racism’, as the traitorous mass media pretends – they are a direct result of the suicidal mass immigration policies of the LibLabCon party.

Don

I have heard it all before.

 

[Intense]

I'm quite enjoying the 'swift' justice that's being delivered in England. I find it very entertaining that the police are kicking in doors and arresting these little assholes.

Now we have some interesting dilemmas:

They can evict the families of some of these thugs... those that are in social housing and have signed 'behavior contracts'. But is that a good thing to do? Where do they go? Does it solve anything?

They can withdraw benefits from those who are claiming... but if they do that, surely, those people are going to turn to yet more crime - because they will have no money.

Tricky shit.

Maybe a Guantenamo style prison camp?

During the actual Riots, being contained in a secured Soccer Stadium or Airplane Hangers for the overflow would have served the need. Plastic hand-cuffs, bologna sandwiches. Something to tell stories about later.

 

[Intense]

David Cameron said Thursday he would seek advice from U.S. cities that have fought gangs, including Boston, Los Angeles and New York.


British PM Seeks Gang Violence Solutions in US | Europe | English

That is smart.

 

[Intense]

Well this event certainly gave us the opprtunity to see how the question of RIGHT TO PRIVACY and the RIGHT TO BE SAFE can bring us to conflict does it not?

Englands people are the most scrutinized people in the world techically speaking.

Are they safer as a result?

I can't help but note here that some the people on this board who insist they hate the NANNY STATE and government's insinating themselves into their lifes, feel okay about this obvious SURVEILLANCE STATISM.

What this show us is that it is EASY to take a lotfy philosophical position that sounds like you love freedom more than everybody else.

But implementing that noble philosophy in the REAL WORLD?

Well then one might find oneself backing down a bit from that former position.

The difference between one's ideology and implementation of that ideology can be rather vast.

How many years now are you under surveillance when you shop or go out to play? Who are you kidding? Where are there not security cameras where money changes hands, be they private or Government? Surveillance in a Public Place is not Totalitarian. That is not to say that misuse can be. Stop being a Dick.

 

[California Girl]

That was suggested on Question Time last night. It could result in them also learning some skills which could be of benefit to them for getting a job. Done properly it could be very positive.



Thing is a lot were not doing damage in their own community and they know that. If they were damaging their own community there would be a case for that but I get the impression it is just going to happen regardless of what they have done and if they had been no problems to the community would seem silly. It is just going to move the problem on - according to Cameron to private housing.

I think it would be good if things were a bit more fluid than they seem to be. For instance one 23 year old with no criminal record, on his way home with his girlfriend came upon a shop which had been looted and thought what the hell and took some water worth just over £3. He has been given a 6 month prison sentence. I think that is ridiculous. Of course what he did was wrong, but he was not out looting, just a bad decision in a moment may cost him his adult life - or I guess that will go to appeal.



well according to that teacher whose article I put in earlier their are a regular 13 - 20% who barely learn to read. If a kid does not get reading by 7 they usually never do - or at least that was what it used to be like.

I would not be in favour of anything resembling the old secondary modern's. You simply cannot tell a person's potential at that young age but I would at least like to see no child getting to seven without learning to read and write (unless of course their is a genuine reason for it). There really isn't any reason why these kids should not be able to achieve as well as anyone else. The previous governments 'early start' was beginning to see results. Unfortunately all these things have been dramatically cut. They need to know that they can aspire to just the same as anyone else and that can of course include apprentiships.

You also need to deal with social support as there does not seem to be that much going on in the family, so you need good, strong community workers.

What the heck, there is only one thing for it - increase taxes

What they need is to spend money smarter, not spend more money. Actually, it is the British attitude of throwing more money at issues that has helped create this clusterfuck. If they had not spent decades handing people money without any requirement to 'earn' it, people would not have a 'benefits mentality'.

If they had provided full employment then this mentality would never have been created.



Since Thatcherism. Since the concept of full employment was thrown out the window. Not before.


Well tell that to Sir Keith Joseph. It was quite wrong imagining people could survive without work unable to go by the norms of society and and not become antisocial.

Regarding welfare to work. I haven't studied it at great length but it doesn't look enormously different from other previous programs apart from it's intention to get people who are currently considered sick back working. May well end up as a lot of money down the drain.

I am, however, highly amused that your answer is 'raise taxes'. Clueless.

If there isn't money to pay for needed services then taxes seem like the way to get them. You are expecting to get the money from where - taking people who are sick off incapacity benefit perhaps and making them sign onto work even though they aren't capable. You do know that Jobcentre's had to get special information how to deal with people at risk of suicide through this new process, don't you....but yes, got it, you will get the money by putting the sick on Jobseeker's allowance and reducing their benefit by about £40. The people who will pay for changes are the poorest and most vulnerable in society. Yes, I have a clue, just different priorities to you.

The internal document was sent to the Guardian by a senior jobcentre employee who has worked for the DWP for more than 20 years. It was accompanied by a letter from the source that said: "Absolutely nobody has ever seen this guidance before, leading staff to believe it has been put together ahead of the incapacity benefit and disability living allowance cuts."

Jobcentre staff 'sent guidelines on how to deal with claimants' suicide threats' | Society | The Guardian

You show a lack of intellectual honesty blaming 'Thatcher' for this. Your system is a road to hell, paved with good intentions. Your NHS was a brilliant concept. No one should die of a treatable illness just because of poverty. What is it now? A clusterfuck of a system where people get gender reassignment, nose jobs, breast implants, etc while other people die because their NHS can't afford basic drugs for cancer treatment. How the fuck is that right?

Your system broke because idiots like you (social scientists) said government should give people money for nothing. You said kids need to be taught their rights - but you forgot about teaching them about their responsibilities. You decided that single moms should be given every fucking assistance under the sun, without ever having to work for it. You decided they should get a free house - and everything to go in that house. So now we have teenage girls deliberately getting pregnant to get a house and free stuff.

Then you say they shouldn't have to work till their kid is 5. So what do these girls do? Yep, when their kid is 4, they get pregnant again so they get another 5 year of free shit. You - social scientists and "do gooders" have done more damage to this country than anyone else. If anyone should be paying for it - it's you.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I'd just start shooting the rioting Marxist fucks.

You can bet your ass when a few grapes burst they will disperse rather quickly.

Oh yeah that's right, law abiding citizens of Briton are forbidden from owning guns.

Those socialist fools and anarchists are not "revolutionaries" like many who are rioting believe they are - they're fucking cowards.

A real revolutionary wouldn't destroy their own community and environment.

Try that shit here and those fucks who support those assholes philosophy would be hunted. They'd be hiding under rocks in a matter of seconds.

 

[English Dave]

Well, that was an interesting mixture of comments since my last entry. Maybe all hope is
not lost. I hope sincerely my country has people in it who can somehow sort this mess we
have got into. It has taken us many years to get here, and I guess many more years to save
this situation politicians have led us to. I have no axe to grind unlike silly girls like Ravi believe.
I worry for my children and grandchildren what the future of our country holds. Maybe there
is a way out of this somehow. We cannot allow the feral people to dominate us, the young
people may sadly have to fight to save this country one day - I hope not.