Lt. Gen. McInerney Rebukes John McCain on Torture: It Worked on Songbird John WOW!

[Godboy]

Torture doesn't work. The CIA knows this. General Mattis said this and he's been on the front lines where in a moments notice you or those you direct can lose their lives. In the pinch, when you are desperate for answers and believe there may be imminent attacks, I can accept it in limited scenarios as a last ditch effort to demand information, but ultimately, in general, it's mostly ineffective. There have been some who have identified some successes, and others who say it was a waste of time. Without any special inside knowledge, I tend to side with the latter.

I've watched some great documentaries on military intelligence interrogations, from the Vietnam Era and beyond. These guys were good, some of the best. The Germans in WWII were particularly creative, and there are outstanding OSS videos that illustrate how simple chat can give away so much. Some of the stuff I've seen dealt with hardened terrorists, in time, they were broken down and gave actionable intelligence. Not a finger was lifted to harm them. A serious game of psychological warfare in which they saved lives, instead of some primal torture action of revenge for the past, which won't help future U.S ops.

There is a way to get answers, torture could often be more of a liability than a benefit even if they do tell you information, as they often do so just to stop the suffering. So now you waste time and resources chasing ghosts, instead of having legitimate intel. That in itself can cost lives.

Moreover, if you engage in this you lose the higher ground AND you place your own agents at risk of torture. After 9/11 emotions were high, people were rightfully enraged, some felt they had failed in their duties. So, extreme measures were taken.

I think it came down to "we are unprepared and don't have the intelligence we should have, we need answers fast, what's coming next if anything"? If there was suspicion of an imminent attack, well, all bets are off. My gut tells me this was more a reaction of fear by Western intelligence than some proven interrogation tactic.

When done intelligently, torture has always worked and it always will. If im in the CIA and i know things about my captive, things hes done, people he works for/with, etc, then i torture him and see if hes lying or telling the truth when i ask him about those things.Once you know hes telling you the truth on a number of questions you already knew the answer too, you can assume hes telling you the truth on any other question. Plus, if i ask a terrorist for the address of his boss and he gives me a fake address, ill just be right back in his celll, torturing him until he gives me usable information. Lying to "make it stop" wont prevent the torture from eventually getting to the truth.

Torture might have certain limitations, but anyone who says it doesnt work at all is lacking an imagination.

You are a sick fuck

You can call me names, but you clearly cant refute my post.

 

[pismoe]

Damn, so much rage and confusion in you

But a good reminder that the GOP will attack POW’s for their time as POW’s.

Scum will stay scum...we began to see that the first time trump attacked POWs.

-------------------------------- TRUMP didn't attack POW , he spoke his opinion of 'juan mcstain' Bodecea .

He attacked all POWs and you loved it.

--------------------------------------- The TRUMP gave his opinion on 'juan mcstain' Bodecea .

And trump served when?

---------------------------------- well 'mcstain' was in the employ of the government from a very young age and for his entire life and we sure don't want any more of that sh1t Bodecea .

 

[Unkotare]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

Regardless
It is unethical

How so?

 

[Unkotare]

Scum will stay scum...we began to see that the first time trump attacked POWs.

-------------------------------- TRUMP didn't attack POW , he spoke his opinion of 'juan mcstain' Bodecea .

He attacked all POWs and you loved it.

--------------------------------------- The TRUMP gave his opinion on 'juan mcstain' Bodecea .

And trump served when?

---------------------------------- well 'mcstain' was in the employ of the government from a very young age and for his entire life and we sure don't want any more of that sh1t Bodecea .

?????

 

[Godboy]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

That is mostly true, but there are circumstances when its completely reliable. If i know you stashed a can of anthrax somewhere, but i dont know where, you will eventually tell me if i torture you long enough. It really depends on what the torturer already knows going into the process. If youre just some low level scrub that got captured on a battlefield and we dont know anything about you, torture might not be very reliable, but if youre a high level terrorist that the CIA knows a lot about, thats a different story.

 

[Godboy]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

That is mostly true, but there are circumstances when its completely reliable. If i know you stashed a can of anthrax somewhere, but i dont know where, you will eventually tell me if i torture you long enough. It really depends on what the torturer already knows going into the process. If youre just some low level scrub that got captured on a battlefield, torture probably wont be very effective on you, but if youre a high level terrorist that the CIA knows a lot about, thats a different story.

No

^ Worst counter debate ever!

 

[rightwinger]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

Regardless
It is unethical

As you can see...that means nothing to trumpanzees.

Conservatives argue that it is not unethical when they do it.......only when terrorists do it

 

[rightwinger]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

That is mostly true, but there are circumstances when its completely reliable. If i know you stashed a can of anthrax somewhere, but i dont know where, you will eventually tell me if i torture you long enough. It really depends on what the torturer already knows going into the process. If youre just some low level scrub that got captured on a battlefield and we dont know anything about you, torture might not be very reliable, but if youre a high level terrorist that the CIA knows a lot about, thats a different story.

Situational ethics

Torture is OK because we are the good guys

 

[rightwinger]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

Regardless
It is unethical

How so?

Because

 

[Godboy]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

That is mostly true, but there are circumstances when its completely reliable. If i know you stashed a can of anthrax somewhere, but i dont know where, you will eventually tell me if i torture you long enough. It really depends on what the torturer already knows going into the process. If youre just some low level scrub that got captured on a battlefield and we dont know anything about you, torture might not be very reliable, but if youre a high level terrorist that the CIA knows a lot about, thats a different story.

Situational ethics

Torture is OK because we are the good guys

Im not debating the ethics of it. Im debating those who say it doesnt work. They are wrong.

 

[rightwinger]

Torture doesn't work. The CIA knows this. General Mattis said this and he's been on the front lines where in a moments notice you or those you direct can lose their lives. In the pinch, when you are desperate for answers and believe there may be imminent attacks, I can accept it in limited scenarios as a last ditch effort to demand information, but ultimately, in general, it's mostly ineffective. There have been some who have identified some successes, and others who say it was a waste of time. Without any special inside knowledge, I tend to side with the latter.

I've watched some great documentaries on military intelligence interrogations, from the Vietnam Era and beyond. These guys were good, some of the best. The Germans in WWII were particularly creative, and there are outstanding OSS videos that illustrate how simple chat can give away so much. Some of the stuff I've seen dealt with hardened terrorists, in time, they were broken down and gave actionable intelligence. Not a finger was lifted to harm them. A serious game of psychological warfare in which they saved lives, instead of some primal torture action of revenge for the past, which won't help future U.S ops.

There is a way to get answers, torture could often be more of a liability than a benefit even if they do tell you information, as they often do so just to stop the suffering. So now you waste time and resources chasing ghosts, instead of having legitimate intel. That in itself can cost lives.

Moreover, if you engage in this you lose the higher ground AND you place your own agents at risk of torture. After 9/11 emotions were high, people were rightfully enraged, some felt they had failed in their duties. So, extreme measures were taken.

I think it came down to "we are unprepared and don't have the intelligence we should have, we need answers fast, what's coming next if anything"? If there was suspicion of an imminent attack, well, all bets are off. My gut tells me this was more a reaction of fear by Western intelligence than some proven interrogation tactic.

When done intelligently, torture has always worked and it always will. If im in the CIA and i know things about my captive, things hes done, people he works for/with, etc, then i torture him and see if hes lying or telling the truth when i ask him about those things.Once you know hes telling you the truth on a number of questions you already knew the answer too, you can assume hes telling you the truth on any other question. Plus, if i ask a terrorist for the address of his boss and he gives me a fake address, ill just be right back in his celll, torturing him until he gives me usable information. Lying to "make it stop" wont prevent the torture from eventually getting to the truth.

Torture might have certain limitations, but anyone who says it doesnt work at all is lacking an imagination.

You are a sick fuck

You can call me names, but you clearly cant refute my post.

No, seriously
You are a sick fuck

 

[Godboy]

Torture doesn't work. The CIA knows this. General Mattis said this and he's been on the front lines where in a moments notice you or those you direct can lose their lives. In the pinch, when you are desperate for answers and believe there may be imminent attacks, I can accept it in limited scenarios as a last ditch effort to demand information, but ultimately, in general, it's mostly ineffective. There have been some who have identified some successes, and others who say it was a waste of time. Without any special inside knowledge, I tend to side with the latter.

I've watched some great documentaries on military intelligence interrogations, from the Vietnam Era and beyond. These guys were good, some of the best. The Germans in WWII were particularly creative, and there are outstanding OSS videos that illustrate how simple chat can give away so much. Some of the stuff I've seen dealt with hardened terrorists, in time, they were broken down and gave actionable intelligence. Not a finger was lifted to harm them. A serious game of psychological warfare in which they saved lives, instead of some primal torture action of revenge for the past, which won't help future U.S ops.

There is a way to get answers, torture could often be more of a liability than a benefit even if they do tell you information, as they often do so just to stop the suffering. So now you waste time and resources chasing ghosts, instead of having legitimate intel. That in itself can cost lives.

Moreover, if you engage in this you lose the higher ground AND you place your own agents at risk of torture. After 9/11 emotions were high, people were rightfully enraged, some felt they had failed in their duties. So, extreme measures were taken.

I think it came down to "we are unprepared and don't have the intelligence we should have, we need answers fast, what's coming next if anything"? If there was suspicion of an imminent attack, well, all bets are off. My gut tells me this was more a reaction of fear by Western intelligence than some proven interrogation tactic.

When done intelligently, torture has always worked and it always will. If im in the CIA and i know things about my captive, things hes done, people he works for/with, etc, then i torture him and see if hes lying or telling the truth when i ask him about those things.Once you know hes telling you the truth on a number of questions you already knew the answer too, you can assume hes telling you the truth on any other question. Plus, if i ask a terrorist for the address of his boss and he gives me a fake address, ill just be right back in his celll, torturing him until he gives me usable information. Lying to "make it stop" wont prevent the torture from eventually getting to the truth.

Torture might have certain limitations, but anyone who says it doesnt work at all is lacking an imagination.

You are a sick fuck

You can call me names, but you clearly cant refute my post.

No, seriously
You are a sick fuck

Uhuh, and youre terrible at debating.

 

[Godboy]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

That is mostly true, but there are circumstances when its completely reliable. If i know you stashed a can of anthrax somewhere, but i dont know where, you will eventually tell me if i torture you long enough. It really depends on what the torturer already knows going into the process. If youre just some low level scrub that got captured on a battlefield, torture probably wont be very effective on you, but if youre a high level terrorist that the CIA knows a lot about, thats a different story.

No

^ Worst counter debate ever!

When you're wrong you're wrong, and you're wrong.

Ok, i take it back. ^ That is actually the worst counter debate ever.

 

[Godboy]

That is mostly true, but there are circumstances when its completely reliable. If i know you stashed a can of anthrax somewhere, but i dont know where, you will eventually tell me if i torture you long enough. It really depends on what the torturer already knows going into the process. If youre just some low level scrub that got captured on a battlefield, torture probably wont be very effective on you, but if youre a high level terrorist that the CIA knows a lot about, thats a different story.

No

^ Worst counter debate ever!

When you're wrong you're wrong, and you're wrong.

Ok, i take it back. ^ That is actually the worst counter debate ever.

And you're still wrong.

...and you still are unable to prove how im wrong.

 

[tinydancer]

Holy Toledo what a smackdown! I have my own reasons to hate McCain for all the wars he has backed and I've never truly bought into the accusations that others have made about him during the Vietnam war, but this is certainly a breathtaking statement.

And don't give me shit for linking to Gateway. His interview was on FOX.

"Well, she can’t use it anymore because it’s determined by Congress that it’s not legal. The fact is John McCain, it worked on John. That’s why they call him songbird John."

Lt. Gen. McInerney Rebukes John McCain on Torture: It Worked on John. That's Why They Called Him "Songbird John" (VIDEO)

This is a lie. McCain never gave the Vietnam Cong anything after five years of torture.

It is truly heinous that you would repeat this lie.

Haven't you noticed Dragonlady that you are on a message board? And that we put up quotes in our OP? That we quote other people to begin our discussions?

Give me a break snowflake.

 

[Seawytch]

Who gives a fuck about your cows.

John McCain was willing to work to improve it but he was not willing to throw millions off their healthcare. Republicans are the reason you are paying more.

Who is paying for those people to have insurance? People that cannot afford it that’s who..
Any type of mandate on socialist entitlement programs are a fucking joke, and unconstitutional. By the way insurance is not healthcare you dumb fuck

You are the fucking joke and it is not unconstitutional. The fact is that people who were paying hospital bills were already paying for the people who had no insurance and could not pay.

the reason for the mandate is simple. People would not buy insurance when they were healthy but if they got sick then they bought insurance and forced insurance companies to pay for it. once they were healthy then they dropped the insurance. The mandate is constitutional. Whether or not you have insurance does affect your healthcare.

There is no longer a mandate shit for brains. Thanks to trump

Which is why he will get the blame for everyone's premiums going up.

Obamacare made the premiums go up, anyway the mandate made people pay for other peoples shit... the shitty thing is those people could not possibly afford Obamacare let alone paying for other peoples shit...

That is incorrect. Premium increases slowed as a result of ACA.

Slower Premium Growth Under Obama - FactCheck.org

 

[busybee01]

I don’t know I was young then. But man, if he’d been shot down and subjected to torture for years, it would have been horrific for a Democrat to mock him while trying to spread more torture.

Being shot down and being a POW doesn't make him a hero.

Breaking under torture like he did didn't make him a traitor.

Lying about his part in the fire on the aircraft carrier and then running away makes him an asshole. He didn't even hang around for the funeral of the brave sailors who died. He went on in country R&R.

Being a Liberal voting RINO and a hate Trump dickhead also makes him an asshole.

He was also a loser not being able to beat a worthless affirmative action piece of shit Obama. He never really attacked Obama's for being a batshit crazy anti American Muslim Liberal. He was too weak to do what was necessary to make sure we didn't have Obama as President. All it would have taken was telling the truth like Trump did about Crooked Hillary.

Damn, so much rage and confusion in you T

But a good reminder that the GOP will attack POW’s for their time as POW’s.

The rage is because this one pile of excrement McCain is stopping some really good bills from passing that Trump is trying to do to bring this country back from the brink of disaster that the last CORRUPT administration put in place. The sooner McCain is gone, the better.

Another delusional, un-American scumbag heard from. Shitbags like you should be ashamed of yourself.

Back at ya....actually it's because I'm a STAUNCH patriot and want this country to go forward NOT turned into some shitlhole like corrupt socialist liberals did to Venezuela which if the democrats get back in, they'll make sure happens to the U.S. as well.

The fact that McCain voted with the left on every issue to stop Trump from straightening out the past administration's actions that had us well on our way to becoming like Venezuela, tells me exactly what he is. Either he agrees with them who want us borderless, drugged out, oppressed, living in tents like those in California, or he's holding a grudge against Trump that over rides what's best for the country. Either way he is a pile of CORRUPT SELFISH excrement that not only needs to be called out for his actions, but he should be rode out of town by those in Arizona ASAP. We need REPUBLICANS in Congress that represent what is BEST for the country, not selfish corrupt shitheads undermining and trying to destroy it even more. This is why half of us in this country voted Trump into office because we could see what was happening and don't want anymore of that crap.

You are no PATRIOT. You and Trump are the pile of excrement.

Unfortunately McCain didn't vote enough against Republicans. Republicans have pursued a extremist agenda and appealed to the alt-right over Americans. People like you and Trump should be ridden out of this country on a rail. You are the ones who are ruining this country. Americans believe in compassion not telling people to drop dead because they are struggling. Trump did not get half of the vote in this country. A majority of the people do not want your crap.

 

[busybee01]

The man is an embarrassment to all soldiers

McCain? Cripes for all his faults at being a warmonger (that's what I personally hate him for) I really ever heard negative about McCain I grew up on the "Hanoi Hilton" movie and until these latter days always believed him to be a good soul.

I know different now after watching his actions in a variety of global situations that could have been resolved politically but the son of a bitch preferred proxy wars so as far as I'm concerned that bastard can't go quick enough for me. He owns death for so many so let death embrace him.

That screw up on the Forrestal though, I bet there is resentment there.

What screw up? McCain was sitting in his plane when the fire started!

Are you seriously that stupid?

I'm afraid she is....and furthermore, she made a threat on McCain's life on this thread.

-------------------------------- you are a liberal , i know that but you also sound like a TATTLETale wusse Bodecea .

I am a veteran who has actually served with a few returning POWs and know the Code of Conduct.....and you?

When McCain was offered a early release, he insisted the soldiers who were captured before him be released. He followed the Code of Conduct.

 

[Unkotare]

It’s not that torture doesn’t work, it’s that it’s unreliable.

That is mostly true, but there are circumstances when its completely reliable. If i know you stashed a can of anthrax somewhere, but i dont know where, you will eventually tell me if i torture you long enough. ...

You’ll eventually be told something, but not necessarily the truth. That’s why it’s unreliable.

 

[Flash]

Being shot down and being a POW doesn't make him a hero.

Breaking under torture like he did didn't make him a traitor.

Lying about his part in the fire on the aircraft carrier and then running away makes him an asshole. He didn't even hang around for the funeral of the brave sailors who died. He went on in country R&R.

Being a Liberal voting RINO and a hate Trump dickhead also makes him an asshole.

He was also a loser not being able to beat a worthless affirmative action piece of shit Obama. He never really attacked Obama's for being a batshit crazy anti American Muslim Liberal. He was too weak to do what was necessary to make sure we didn't have Obama as President. All it would have taken was telling the truth like Trump did about Crooked Hillary.

Damn, so much rage and confusion in you T

But a good reminder that the GOP will attack POW’s for their time as POW’s.

The rage is because this one pile of excrement McCain is stopping some really good bills from passing that Trump is trying to do to bring this country back from the brink of disaster that the last CORRUPT administration put in place. The sooner McCain is gone, the better.

Another delusional, un-American scumbag heard from. Shitbags like you should be ashamed of yourself.

Back at ya....actually it's because I'm a STAUNCH patriot and want this country to go forward NOT turned into some shitlhole like corrupt socialist liberals did to Venezuela which if the democrats get back in, they'll make sure happens to the U.S. as well.

The fact that McCain voted with the left on every issue to stop Trump from straightening out the past administration's actions that had us well on our way to becoming like Venezuela, tells me exactly what he is. Either he agrees with them who want us borderless, drugged out, oppressed, living in tents like those in California, or he's holding a grudge against Trump that over rides what's best for the country. Either way he is a pile of CORRUPT SELFISH excrement that not only needs to be called out for his actions, but he should be rode out of town by those in Arizona ASAP. We need REPUBLICANS in Congress that represent what is BEST for the country, not selfish corrupt shitheads undermining and trying to destroy it even more. This is why half of us in this country voted Trump into office because we could see what was happening and don't want anymore of that crap.

You are no PATRIOT. You and Trump are the pile of excrement.

Unfortunately McCain didn't vote enough against Republicans. Republicans have pursued a extremist agenda and appealed to the alt-right over Americans. People like you and Trump should be ridden out of this country on a rail. You are the ones who are ruining this country. Americans believe in compassion not telling people to drop dead because they are struggling. Trump did not get half of the vote in this country. A majority of the people do not want your crap.

Moon Bat. If McCain is such a fucking hero why didn't you Libtards vote for him in 2008 instead of that worthless affirmative action piece of shit Negro?