Man Shoots At Intruders, Turns Out It Was A No-knock Raid. Now He Faces The Death Penalty

[Rikurzhen]

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

Why would anyone use Zimmerman as an example of Stand Your Ground? That's bizarre.

 

[Dana7360]

It happened in Texas a self defense State they do not have to be in the house, further the broken windows would attest to the fact they were entering your home.

All states have self defense statutes. Whether you can legally shoot someone depends on the circumstances. I'm guessing the prosecutor is more familiar with state law than the lopsided boraod brushed agenda driven op-ed piece.

Texas is a stand your ground state. All the person has to say is they FELT threatened and it's legal to shoot. I doesn't matter where it happens whether inside a home or not.

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

How was the home owner to know it was the police? They didn't knock or announce themselves. They just broke in through a window.

I have a hard time believing you wouldn't shoot when you see strangers coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning in a stand your ground state.

If it goes to trial I would be extremely surprised if the man is convicted.

The police are required to identify themselves even in a no knock situation. If they did it's murder. If they didn't self defense. It really is that simple.

Oh ok. I didn't know they still have to announce themselves.

Yes you're right. If they did announce themselves it's murder.

 

[Dana7360]

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

Why would anyone use Zimmerman as an example of Stand Your Ground? That's bizarre.

zimmerman wasn't in a house. At the end of the trial the judge instructed the jury about stand your ground and to apply it even though zimmerman wasn't claiming stand your ground.

One poster said the person has to be inside the house for it not to be murder.

Stand your ground removes that requirement.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

It happened in Texas a self defense State they do not have to be in the house, further the broken windows would attest to the fact they were entering your home.

All states have self defense statutes. Whether you can legally shoot someone depends on the circumstances. I'm guessing the prosecutor is more familiar with state law than the lopsided boraod brushed agenda driven op-ed piece.

Texas is a stand your ground state. All the person has to say is they FELT threatened and it's legal to shoot. I doesn't matter where it happens whether inside a home or not.

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

How was the home owner to know it was the police? They didn't knock or announce themselves. They just broke in through a window.

I have a hard time believing you wouldn't shoot when you see strangers coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning in a stand your ground state.

If it goes to trial I would be extremely surprised if the man is convicted.

The police are required to identify themselves even in a no knock situation. If they did it's murder. If they didn't self defense. It really is that simple.

Isn't it kind of hard to say much while climbing in a window? They aren't going to say something outside because they want the raid to be a surprise, which is also why they would not say anything until they are inside.

 

[Dana7360]

It happened in Texas a self defense State they do not have to be in the house, further the broken windows would attest to the fact they were entering your home.

All states have self defense statutes. Whether you can legally shoot someone depends on the circumstances. I'm guessing the prosecutor is more familiar with state law than the lopsided boraod brushed agenda driven op-ed piece.

Texas is a stand your ground state. All the person has to say is they FELT threatened and it's legal to shoot. I doesn't matter where it happens whether inside a home or not.

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

How was the home owner to know it was the police? They didn't knock or announce themselves. They just broke in through a window.

I have a hard time believing you wouldn't shoot when you see strangers coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning in a stand your ground state.

If it goes to trial I would be extremely surprised if the man is convicted.

The police are required to identify themselves even in a no knock situation. If they did it's murder. If they didn't self defense. It really is that simple.

Isn't it kind of hard to say much while climbing in a window? They aren't going to say something outside because they want the raid to be a surprise, which is also why they would not say anything until they are inside.

Plus it was at 5:30 in the morning.

The people in the house were probably asleep.

It's kind hard to hear what someone is saying when you wake up to people coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

It happened in Texas a self defense State they do not have to be in the house, further the broken windows would attest to the fact they were entering your home.

All states have self defense statutes. Whether you can legally shoot someone depends on the circumstances. I'm guessing the prosecutor is more familiar with state law than the lopsided boraod brushed agenda driven op-ed piece.

Texas is a stand your ground state. All the person has to say is they FELT threatened and it's legal to shoot. I doesn't matter where it happens whether inside a home or not.

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

How was the home owner to know it was the police? They didn't knock or announce themselves. They just broke in through a window.

I have a hard time believing you wouldn't shoot when you see strangers coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning in a stand your ground state.

If it goes to trial I would be extremely surprised if the man is convicted.

The police are required to identify themselves even in a no knock situation. If they did it's murder. If they didn't self defense. It really is that simple.

Isn't it kind of hard to say much while climbing in a window? They aren't going to say something outside because they want the raid to be a surprise, which is also why they would not say anything until they are inside.

Plus it was at 5:30 in the morning.

The people in the house were probably asleep.

It's kind hard to hear what someone is saying when you wake up to people coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning.

That's irrelevant if you hear them or not (assuming they actually announce, they aren't allowed to whisper it or anything like that) YOU are responsible for knowing who you are firing at.

In the Army we didn't worry about warrants, but we did worry about announcing ourselves, both because it is required and because it is prudent for your own safety.

But the civilian law is the same, police MUST announce themselves on a no knock warrant, that means as they actually make entry into your home, not as they are coming onto your property.

 

[Andylusion]

Man Shoots at Intruders Turns Out it was a No-Knock Raid. Now He Faces the Death Penalty The Free Thought Project

On Friday, May 9, 2014, just after 5:30am in Killeen, Texas, Marvin Louis Guy was the target of a no knock raid.

The officers were looking for drugs, yet none were found in the home. There was some questionable paraphernalia, but nothing indicative of drug dealing- or anything damning enough for a reasonable person to feel the need to take an officers life.

Unfortunately the danger of no-knock raids is real. just ask the parents of baby Bou or the family of Detective Dinwiddie.

Detective Dinwiddie was one of the SWAT officers who broke into Guy’s house on May 9th, based on a seemingly bogus informant tip off about drugs being dealt from the home.

Likely alarmed by the men climbing through his windows at 5:30 in the morning, Guy and his wife sought to protect themselves and their property and fired on the intruders- in self defense.

Dinwiddie, along with three other officers were shot while attempting to breach the windows to the home, according to the department’s press release.

“The TRU was beginning to breach the window when the 49 year old male inside, opened fire striking four officers.”

Since the shooting occurred during the break in, a reasonable person would assume they had not yet identified themselves as police officers. How on earth is this not self defense?

Prosecutors are now seeking the death penalty against Guy. He is charged with capital murder in Dinwiddie’s death, as well as three counts of attempted capital murder for firing on the other officers during the shootout, injuring one other officer. Body armor protected others who were hit.

This announcement, given by the prosecutor in open court, comes one day after Governor Rick Perry presented Dinwiddie’s family with the Star of Texas award. This award is given out each year to police and first responders killed or injured in the line of duty, the Killeen Daily Herald reported.

Let’s flash back to December, in Texas, for a moment.

On December 19, also just before 6am, Burleson County Sgt. Adam Sowders, led a team in a no-knock marijuana raid on Henry Goedrich Magee’s mobile home in Somerville.

Also startled by these intruders, Magee opened fire, fearing for the safety of himself and his then pregnant girlfriend.


Read more at Man Shoots at Intruders Turns Out it was a No-Knock Raid. Now He Faces the Death Penalty The Free Thought Project

Thoughts?

And please any authoritarians who want to comment about bowing to police under all circumstances you are excused from this thread. Everyone knows your angle

"Yes I want to start a thread, with the condition that only those whose opinions I already agree with can respond, and all those whose thoughts I disagree with, you are excused because I already know your angle"

Why bother being on a forum? Makes no sense.

 

[Dana7360]

All states have self defense statutes. Whether you can legally shoot someone depends on the circumstances. I'm guessing the prosecutor is more familiar with state law than the lopsided boraod brushed agenda driven op-ed piece.

Texas is a stand your ground state. All the person has to say is they FELT threatened and it's legal to shoot. I doesn't matter where it happens whether inside a home or not.

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

How was the home owner to know it was the police? They didn't knock or announce themselves. They just broke in through a window.

I have a hard time believing you wouldn't shoot when you see strangers coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning in a stand your ground state.

If it goes to trial I would be extremely surprised if the man is convicted.

The police are required to identify themselves even in a no knock situation. If they did it's murder. If they didn't self defense. It really is that simple.

Isn't it kind of hard to say much while climbing in a window? They aren't going to say something outside because they want the raid to be a surprise, which is also why they would not say anything until they are inside.

Plus it was at 5:30 in the morning.

The people in the house were probably asleep.

It's kind hard to hear what someone is saying when you wake up to people coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning.

That's irrelevant if you hear them or not (assuming they actually announce, they aren't allowed to whisper it or anything like that) YOU are responsible for knowing who you are firing at.

In the Army we didn't worry about warrants, but we did worry about announcing ourselves, both because it is required and because it is prudent for your own safety.

But the civilian law is the same, police MUST announce themselves on a no knock warrant, that means as they actually make entry into your home, not as they are coming onto your property.

I think this no knock policy is dangerous for the police.

When the supreme court made their ruling I knew something like this would happen. It will happen more if the police continue to raid houses that way.

I don't think it's a good idea to put the police officers lives on the line that way.

Especially when there were no drugs or any selling of drugs happening at that house. That police died for nothing. Those others were injured for nothing.

Seems to me they should have done some investigation to make sure that their "tip" was a good one.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

Why would anyone use Zimmerman as an example of Stand Your Ground? That's bizarre.

zimmerman wasn't in a house. At the end of the trial the judge instructed the jury about stand your ground and to apply it even though zimmerman wasn't claiming stand your ground.

One poster said the person has to be inside the house for it not to be murder.

Stand your ground removes that requirement.

You really should get out of your left wing blog bubble. This was all over those nuthouses and it's what us normal people call "making a mountain out of a molehill." Judges give jurors all sorts of arcane instructions but that doesn't make them pertinent to reality. Zimmerman was tried on a classic self-defense claim.

When you're on the bottom of a struggle and a hood rat is pounding your head into a concrete sidewalk, stand your ground principles are not applicable for Zimmerman had no opportunity to flee, being trapped under the hood rat and having his head pounded into the concrete.

The fact that the judge instructs the jurors that they can reference all sorts of defense claims if they need to doesn't imply that the jurors need to.

 

[Jarlaxle]

It happened in Texas a self defense State they do not have to be in the house, further the broken windows would attest to the fact they were entering your home.

All states have self defense statutes. Whether you can legally shoot someone depends on the circumstances. I'm guessing the prosecutor is more familiar with state law than the lopsided boraod brushed agenda driven op-ed piece.

It will be up to the jury. They do not need to follow what the prosecutor or judge says. If the jury feels that the man feared for his life there will be no conviction.

Mr. Guy may simply die tragically in prison awaiting trial...possibly of ten or twelve "self-inflicted" knife wounds to the back.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I think this no knock policy is dangerous for the police.

When the supreme court made their ruling I knew something like this would happen. It will happen more if the police continue to raid houses that way.

I don't think it's a good idea to put the police officers lives on the line that way.

Especially when there were no drugs or any selling of drugs happening at that house. That police died for nothing. Those others were injured for nothing.

Seems to me they should have done some investigation to make sure that their "tip" was a good one.

But that requires actual POLICE WORK! It's lots more fun to use all their cool TOYS!

 

[P F Tinmore]

It happened in Texas a self defense State they do not have to be in the house, further the broken windows would attest to the fact they were entering your home.

All states have self defense statutes. Whether you can legally shoot someone depends on the circumstances. I'm guessing the prosecutor is more familiar with state law than the lopsided boraod brushed agenda driven op-ed piece.

Texas is a stand your ground state. All the person has to say is they FELT threatened and it's legal to shoot. I doesn't matter where it happens whether inside a home or not.

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

How was the home owner to know it was the police? They didn't knock or announce themselves. They just broke in through a window.

I have a hard time believing you wouldn't shoot when you see strangers coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning in a stand your ground state.

If it goes to trial I would be extremely surprised if the man is convicted.

The police are required to identify themselves even in a no knock situation. If they did it's murder. If they didn't self defense. It really is that simple.

Isn't it kind of hard to say much while climbing in a window? They aren't going to say something outside because they want the raid to be a surprise, which is also why they would not say anything until they are inside.

Plus it was at 5:30 in the morning.

The people in the house were probably asleep.

It's kind hard to hear what someone is saying when you wake up to people coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning.

Indeed, when somebody first wakes up you cannot expect clear thinking.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Texas is a stand your ground state. All the person has to say is they FELT threatened and it's legal to shoot. I doesn't matter where it happens whether inside a home or not.

Think george zimmerman for a good example of stand your ground.

How was the home owner to know it was the police? They didn't knock or announce themselves. They just broke in through a window.

I have a hard time believing you wouldn't shoot when you see strangers coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning in a stand your ground state.

If it goes to trial I would be extremely surprised if the man is convicted.

The police are required to identify themselves even in a no knock situation. If they did it's murder. If they didn't self defense. It really is that simple.

Isn't it kind of hard to say much while climbing in a window? They aren't going to say something outside because they want the raid to be a surprise, which is also why they would not say anything until they are inside.

Plus it was at 5:30 in the morning.

The people in the house were probably asleep.

It's kind hard to hear what someone is saying when you wake up to people coming through your window at 5:30 in the morning.

That's irrelevant if you hear them or not (assuming they actually announce, they aren't allowed to whisper it or anything like that) YOU are responsible for knowing who you are firing at.

In the Army we didn't worry about warrants, but we did worry about announcing ourselves, both because it is required and because it is prudent for your own safety.

But the civilian law is the same, police MUST announce themselves on a no knock warrant, that means as they actually make entry into your home, not as they are coming onto your property.

I think this no knock policy is dangerous for the police.

When the supreme court made their ruling I knew something like this would happen. It will happen more if the police continue to raid houses that way.

I don't think it's a good idea to put the police officers lives on the line that way.

Especially when there were no drugs or any selling of drugs happening at that house. That police died for nothing. Those others were injured for nothing.

Seems to me they should have done some investigation to make sure that their "tip" was a good one.

I'm not a big fan of the no knock either. But the alternative is use overwhelming force, and people bitch about that to.

 

[mdk]

My thoughts are he's screwed. Your pathetic plea notwithstanding, if they are not IN your home you cannot claim self defense. Your clue that it's more of an op-ed piece is the broad brushing and trying to blur the issue with multiple accounts. It all has to be looked at on a case by case basis. I also have a hard time believing they didn't identify themselves.

If someone unidentified is coming through your window you are acting in self defense if you fire.

This is the camp that I fall into. If you come climbing through my window unannounced and unidentified I am going to defend myself. Depending on the window it may very well be a gun.

 

[Mojo2]

Body cameras would settle the matter immediately.

If the Police identified themselves legibly Guy is toast.

All of this grief over pot.

In 2014!

 

[DigitalDrifter]

If someone starts ripping my door down, or breaking through windows they damn sure better be wearing kevlar.

 

[Mojo2]

It happened in Texas a self defense State they do not have to be in the house, further the broken windows would attest to the fact they were entering your home.

All states have self defense statutes. Whether you can legally shoot someone depends on the circumstances. I'm guessing the prosecutor is more familiar with state law than the lopsided boraod brushed agenda driven op-ed piece.

It will be up to the jury. They do not need to follow what the prosecutor or judge says. If the jury feels that the man feared for his life there will be no conviction.

Very impressive, P F Tinmore.

A Palestinian Muslim becoming interested in American jurisprudence.

And why not?

 

[WinterBorn]

If someone unidentified is coming through your window you are acting in self defense if you fire.

Which state are you referring to? If I shoot someone, the body will be found inside, not out. But it looks like Guy's problem was he was pumping rounds outside at them.

Go back to Ruby Ridge. A guy (I forgot his name) killed a federal agent and was acquitted by the jury because they saw it as self defense. The agent was in the woods outside the home.

Actually his son shot an agent when he came after him in the woods as I recall.

That wasn't the event that I was referring to. I don't think the kid actually hit anyone. The son, I think he was about 12, was killed anyway.

The 14 year old kid didn't hit anyone. The guy who was staying with them shot the agent. The kid, for his effort, was shot in the back and killed.

 

[JQPublic1]

If someone unidentified is coming through your window you are acting in self defense if you fire.

Which state are you referring to? If I shoot someone, the body will be found inside, not out. But it looks like Guy's problem was he was pumping rounds outside at them.

THAT changes things. If the police had broken in without shouting POLICE OFFICERS!!!, the self defense issue kicks in....If the report of the resident shooting at people outside the home, that is not self defense.

Except in Texas recall that a man shoot a man for robbing his neighbor and no charges were filed.

Yes, I recall that incident quite vividly. It was a man named Joe Horn. He killed two illegal immigrants he said were breaking into his neighbor's house... He became the local hero and the prosecutors adored him! He even had the police dispatcher on the line just before he did it and was warned NOT to engage the suspects. He did anyway and killed them both. Horn was subsequently cleared by a Texas Grand Jury!

Joe Horn shooting controversy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[MikeK]

My thoughts are he's screwed. Your pathetic plea notwithstanding, if they are not IN your home you cannot claim self defense. Your clue that it's more of an op-ed piece is the broad brushing and trying to blur the issue with multiple accounts. It all has to be looked at on a case by case basis. I also have a hard time believing they didn't identify themselves.

These break-in raids have become quite a serious problem. There was a time when very few break-in warrants were issued and in each example the reason was to intervene in some very serious offense or to apprehend a dangerous, armed felon. Today these SWAT break-in raids are conducted dozens to hundreds of times a day, 365 days a year, all over America, many times for such nonsensical reasons as suspicion of marijuana possession.

Go here for some interesting specifics: Botched Paramilitary Police Raids Cato Institute