Maryland vs. Florida Gun Laws

[Brain357]

Where was the armed hero? This is FL after all.

It was a gun free zone...and they are law abiding citizens. The law left them unarmed..again.

Why do you believe it was a gun free zone? In FL?

We have gun free zones here in Ohio, and our gun laws are very liberal.

So give proof this was a gun free zone.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Where was the armed hero? This is FL after all.

It was a gun free zone...and they are law abiding citizens. The law left them unarmed..again.

Why do you believe it was a gun free zone? In FL?

We have gun free zones here in Ohio, and our gun laws are very liberal.

So give proof this was a gun free zone.

Site of Jacksonville Mass Shooting is a Designated Gun-Free Zone - The Truth About Guns

 

[buckeye45_73]

The dead count was far less than usual.

Because he shot himself. He had rounds left in both guns, and there was no one there to stop him...gun free zone.

Yes seems he just had specific targets and then he was done, also not typical.

Many shootings anti-gunners claim as mass shootings are targeted....and that this shooting was targeted is speculation, not fact...next...

Well from your link;
Williams said investigators believe Katz shot only one gun during the incident, targeting other gamers, and walking past patrons in the restaurant.

Yeah probably so, I've heard he was mad he lost. If only we teach kids that not everyone wins and gets a participation trophy in life, maybe he would have been better equipped emotionally to losing a video game tourney......

 

[Missourian]

Where was the armed hero? This is FL after all.

It was a gun free zone...and they are law abiding citizens. The law left them unarmed..again.

Why do you believe it was a gun free zone? In FL?

I posted it yesterday...directly from Jacksonville Landings Rules of Conduct...

E. Violations of the Law

1. The commission of any act defined by Federal, State or local ordinances as a criminal act is prohibited. These include, but are not limited to: graffiti, property damage, defacing, damaging or destroying any real or personal property, etc.
2. Possession of a weapon, even if legally carried (except by law enforcement officers) is absolutely prohibited on Landing property
3. Using or possessing fireworks is prohibited

Rules of Conduct | The Jacksonville Landing

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It turns out the firearms used in Jacksonville were legally purchased in Maryland.

The handguns - a .45 caliber and 9mm - were purchased legally recently in Maryland by (he who shall not be named)* from a licensed dealer, according to [Sheriff]* Williams.

Sheriff On Jacksonville Landing Mass Shooting: 'As Bad As This Is, It Could Have Been Worse'
​

So, what does that mean...did Maryland's strict gun laws work as gun-control proponents claim?

Apparently not...

Maryland is one of the most regulated states for handgun sales in America...they have everything a gun-controller tells us will reduce mass shootings.

A seven day waiting period.

Universal background checks...including private sales, (the purposely misleadingly labeled 'gun show loophole').

Both state and federal background checks.

Permits required for all handgun sales...including private transactions.

Mandatory training and and issued Handgun Qualification Certificate.

Mandatory registration of all handguns.

Fingerprinting required for all handgun purchases.

Ban on all high capacity magazines.

Gun laws in Maryland - Wikipedia



The Jacksonville shooter brought two guns to make up for limited magazine capacity...just like anyone with common sense would understand a shooter would. Between the two handguns, the shooter had 20 round capacity.

I've seen threads on this subject alluding to the gun laws of Florida, thinking they were scoring political points,...what do they have to say now?

He passed every requirement gun-controllers claim would reduce mass-shootings...will they finally admit they are wrong?


Timmy 2aguy frigidweirdo bodecea JGalt Rustic DigitalDrifter Brain357 Odium JimH52 Golfing Gator BlueGin miketx JimBowie1958 Tommy Tainant BlackFlag BlackSand blackhawk harmonica


*edited by OP.

What a happy day for you, two more dead bodies to use for your own political talking points!

Sadly a few of the other partisan hacks on both sides beat you to it, but do not give up, maybe you can be first next time.

 

[Missourian]

Well from your link;
Williams said investigators believe Katz shot only one gun during the incident, targeting other gamers, and walking past patrons in the restaurant.

Investigators believe...IOW, not a fact. Nine other people were shot.

 

[Cellblock2429]

It turns out the firearms used in Jacksonville were legally purchased in Maryland.

The handguns - a .45 caliber and 9mm - were purchased legally recently in Maryland by (he who shall not be named)* from a licensed dealer, according to [Sheriff]* Williams.

Sheriff On Jacksonville Landing Mass Shooting: 'As Bad As This Is, It Could Have Been Worse'
​

So, what does that mean...did Maryland's strict gun laws work as gun-control proponents claim?

Apparently not...

Maryland is one of the most regulated states for handgun sales in America...they have everything a gun-controller tells us will reduce mass shootings.

A seven day waiting period.

Universal background checks...including private sales, (the purposely misleadingly labeled 'gun show loophole').

Both state and federal background checks.

Permits required for all handgun sales...including private transactions.

Mandatory training and and issued Handgun Qualification Certificate.

Mandatory registration of all handguns.

Fingerprinting required for all handgun purchases.

Ban on all high capacity magazines.

Gun laws in Maryland - Wikipedia



The Jacksonville shooter brought two guns to make up for limited magazine capacity...just like anyone with common sense would understand a shooter would. Between the two handguns, the shooter had 20 round capacity.

I've seen threads on this subject alluding to the gun laws of Florida, thinking they were scoring political points,...what do they have to say now?

He passed every requirement gun-controllers claim would reduce mass-shootings...will they finally admit they are wrong?


Timmy 2aguy frigidweirdo bodecea JGalt Rustic DigitalDrifter Brain357 Odium JimH52 Golfing Gator BlueGin miketx JimBowie1958 Tommy Tainant BlackFlag BlackSand blackhawk harmonica


*edited by OP.

/----/ The Jacksonville Shooter Hated Trump
"...it appears that the shooter was part of the Trump resistance. The shooter apparently on a Reddit thread was very, very anti-Trump, and so the Drive-Bys are not going to want to make a vast, vast move on this guy, make it look like the resistance is taking up arms because people that hate Trump are supposed to hate guns.

You see, the only people that like guns are Republicans. And when it comes to the conservatives and the media, as far as the media’s concerned, conservatives who are no longer able to be conservatives are the best kind. Republicans who are no longer able to be Republicans are the best kind. And they get all kinds of fawning reverence and treatment." Rush

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

What a happy day for you, two more dead bodies to use for your own political talking points!

Sadly a few of the other partisan hacks on both sides beat you to it, but do not give up, maybe you can be first next time.

To be fair, both sides do it. The gun grabbers do it WAY more often.

 

[Brain357]

Well from your link;
Williams said investigators believe Katz shot only one gun during the incident, targeting other gamers, and walking past patrons in the restaurant.

Investigators believe...IOW, not a fact. Nine other people were shot.

So was it the lower capacity magazine we can thank for the low death count?

 

[Brain357]

What a happy day for you, two more dead bodies to use for your own political talking points!

Sadly a few of the other partisan hacks on both sides beat you to it, but do not give up, maybe you can be first next time.

To be fair, both sides do it. The gun grabbers do it WAY more often.

It’s pretty even.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

What a happy day for you, two more dead bodies to use for your own political talking points!

Sadly a few of the other partisan hacks on both sides beat you to it, but do not give up, maybe you can be first next time.

To be fair, both sides do it. The gun grabbers do it WAY more often.

Yep, and I called out shitheads from both sides that did it yesterday. And you say the gun grabbers do it WAY more often, I say not on this board they do not. It was not a gun grabber that choose to use the death of a 4 year old by a pitbull attack to get in a poke or two at the "gun grabbers".

 

[Missourian]

It turns out the firearms used in Jacksonville were legally purchased in Maryland.

The handguns - a .45 caliber and 9mm - were purchased legally recently in Maryland by (he who shall not be named)* from a licensed dealer, according to [Sheriff]* Williams.

Sheriff On Jacksonville Landing Mass Shooting: 'As Bad As This Is, It Could Have Been Worse'
​

So, what does that mean...did Maryland's strict gun laws work as gun-control proponents claim?

Apparently not...

Maryland is one of the most regulated states for handgun sales in America...they have everything a gun-controller tells us will reduce mass shootings.

A seven day waiting period.

Universal background checks...including private sales, (the purposely misleadingly labeled 'gun show loophole').

Both state and federal background checks.

Permits required for all handgun sales...including private transactions.

Mandatory training and and issued Handgun Qualification Certificate.

Mandatory registration of all handguns.

Fingerprinting required for all handgun purchases.

Ban on all high capacity magazines.

Gun laws in Maryland - Wikipedia



The Jacksonville shooter brought two guns to make up for limited magazine capacity...just like anyone with common sense would understand a shooter would. Between the two handguns, the shooter had 20 round capacity.

I've seen threads on this subject alluding to the gun laws of Florida, thinking they were scoring political points,...what do they have to say now?

He passed every requirement gun-controllers claim would reduce mass-shootings...will they finally admit they are wrong?


Timmy 2aguy frigidweirdo bodecea JGalt Rustic DigitalDrifter Brain357 Odium JimH52 Golfing Gator BlueGin miketx JimBowie1958 Tommy Tainant BlackFlag BlackSand blackhawk harmonica


*edited by OP.

What a happy day for you, two more dead bodies to use for your own political talking points!

Sadly a few of the other partisan hacks on both sides beat you to it, but do not give up, maybe you can be first next time.

Fair enough...but I got pulled into this by Timmy's thread yesterday.

 

[Auld Phart]

Where was the armed hero? This is FL after all.

It was a gun free zone...and they are law abiding citizens. The law left them unarmed..again.

Why do you believe it was a gun free zone? In FL?

The sign on the door?

the hits on google?

jacksonville shooter gun free zone - Yahoo Search Results

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It turns out the firearms used in Jacksonville were legally purchased in Maryland.

The handguns - a .45 caliber and 9mm - were purchased legally recently in Maryland by (he who shall not be named)* from a licensed dealer, according to [Sheriff]* Williams.

Sheriff On Jacksonville Landing Mass Shooting: 'As Bad As This Is, It Could Have Been Worse'
​

So, what does that mean...did Maryland's strict gun laws work as gun-control proponents claim?

Apparently not...

Maryland is one of the most regulated states for handgun sales in America...they have everything a gun-controller tells us will reduce mass shootings.

A seven day waiting period.

Universal background checks...including private sales, (the purposely misleadingly labeled 'gun show loophole').

Both state and federal background checks.

Permits required for all handgun sales...including private transactions.

Mandatory training and and issued Handgun Qualification Certificate.

Mandatory registration of all handguns.

Fingerprinting required for all handgun purchases.

Ban on all high capacity magazines.

Gun laws in Maryland - Wikipedia



The Jacksonville shooter brought two guns to make up for limited magazine capacity...just like anyone with common sense would understand a shooter would. Between the two handguns, the shooter had 20 round capacity.

I've seen threads on this subject alluding to the gun laws of Florida, thinking they were scoring political points,...what do they have to say now?

He passed every requirement gun-controllers claim would reduce mass-shootings...will they finally admit they are wrong?


Timmy 2aguy frigidweirdo bodecea JGalt Rustic DigitalDrifter Brain357 Odium JimH52 Golfing Gator BlueGin miketx JimBowie1958 Tommy Tainant BlackFlag BlackSand blackhawk harmonica


*edited by OP.

What a happy day for you, two more dead bodies to use for your own political talking points!

Sadly a few of the other partisan hacks on both sides beat you to it, but do not give up, maybe you can be first next time.

Fair enough...but I got pulled into this by Timmy's thread yesterday.

Sorry, this has been a big pet peeve of mine on this board since this thread ....Where Are The Libs? 2yo Killed...no outcry / call to ban ownership....

This was the straw that broke the back for me.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Yep, and I called out shitheads from both sides that did it yesterday. And you say the gun grabbers do it WAY more often, I say not on this board they do not. It was not a gun grabber that choose to use the death of a 4 year old by a pitbull attack to get in a poke or two at the "gun grabbers".

fair enough.

Both sides should knock it off.

 

[2aguy]

It turns out the firearms used in Jacksonville were legally purchased in Maryland.

The handguns - a .45 caliber and 9mm - were purchased legally recently in Maryland by (he who shall not be named)* from a licensed dealer, according to Williams.

Sheriff On Jacksonville Landing Mass Shooting: 'As Bad As This Is, It Could Have Been Worse'
​

So, what does that mean...did Maryland's strict gun laws work as gun-control proponents claim?

Apparently not...

Maryland is one of the most regulated states for handgun sales in America...they have everything a gun-controller tells us will reduce mass shootings.

A seven day waiting period.

Universal background checks...including private sales, (the purposely misleadingly labeled 'gun show loophole').

Both state and federal background checks.

Permits required for all handgun sales...including private transactions.

Mandatory training and and issued Handgun Qualification Certificate.

Mandatory registration of all handguns.

Fingerprinting required for all handgun purchases.

Ban on all high capacity magazines.

Gun laws in Maryland - Wikipedia



The Jacksonville shooter brought two guns to make up for limited magazine capacity...just like anyone with common sense would understand a shooter would. Between the two handguns, the shooter had 20 round capacity.

I've seen threads on this subject alluding to the gun laws of Florida, thinking they were scoring political points,...what do they have to say now?

He passed every requirement gun-controllers claim would reduce mass-shootings...will they finally admit they are wrong?


Timmy 2aguy frigidweirdo bodecea JGalt Rustic DigitalDrifter Brain357 Odium JimH52 Golfing Gator BlueGin miketx JimBowie1958 Tommy Tainant BlackFlag BlackSand blackhawk harmonica


*edited by OP.

The dead count was far less than usual.

And a lot less than if he had used a rental truck..... a muslim terrorist killed 86 people with a rental truck....

 

[2aguy]

Where was the armed hero? This is FL after all.

As has been pointed out, the area he was in was a gun free zone.... good people were not allowed to carry their legal guns in there for self defense.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It turns out the firearms used in Jacksonville were legally purchased in Maryland.

The handguns - a .45 caliber and 9mm - were purchased legally recently in Maryland by (he who shall not be named)* from a licensed dealer, according to [Sheriff]* Williams.

Sheriff On Jacksonville Landing Mass Shooting: 'As Bad As This Is, It Could Have Been Worse'
​

So, what does that mean...did Maryland's strict gun laws work as gun-control proponents claim?

Apparently not...

Maryland is one of the most regulated states for handgun sales in America...they have everything a gun-controller tells us will reduce mass shootings.

A seven day waiting period.

Universal background checks...including private sales, (the purposely misleadingly labeled 'gun show loophole').

Both state and federal background checks.

Permits required for all handgun sales...including private transactions.

Mandatory training and and issued Handgun Qualification Certificate.

Mandatory registration of all handguns.

Fingerprinting required for all handgun purchases.

Ban on all high capacity magazines.

Gun laws in Maryland - Wikipedia



The Jacksonville shooter brought two guns to make up for limited magazine capacity...just like anyone with common sense would understand a shooter would. Between the two handguns, the shooter had 20 round capacity.

I've seen threads on this subject alluding to the gun laws of Florida, thinking they were scoring political points,...what do they have to say now?

He passed every requirement gun-controllers claim would reduce mass-shootings...will they finally admit they are wrong?


Timmy 2aguy frigidweirdo bodecea JGalt Rustic DigitalDrifter Brain357 Odium JimH52 Golfing Gator BlueGin miketx JimBowie1958 Tommy Tainant BlackFlag BlackSand blackhawk harmonica


*edited by OP.

It means the thread premise fails as a false comparison fallacy.

 

[2aguy]

Where was the armed hero? This is FL after all.

It was a gun free zone...and they are law abiding citizens. The law left them unarmed..again.

Why do you believe it was a gun free zone? In FL?

Several people have posted the rules about carrying in that designated gun free zone.....

 

[2aguy]

Well from your link;
Williams said investigators believe Katz shot only one gun during the incident, targeting other gamers, and walking past patrons in the restaurant.

Investigators believe...IOW, not a fact. Nine other people were shot.

So was it the lower capacity magazine we can thank for the low death count?

No.... he shot the people he wanted to shoot and committed suicide...... magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of people killed during a shooting...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
--------