Maskers gone wild

[Sunsettommy]

Masks do not stop transmission.

They certainly do limit it.

And Kansas proved that when various counties enacted mask rules and some didn't. Guess where the virus bloomed... Yea

NY and NJ were able to almost completely avoided the summer spike that hit almost the entire country...because of mask and social distancing rules

It is irrelevant since transmission still occurs at a significant level.

The rest of what you post are lies dishonest and misleading since those two states have the worlds highest per capita death rate.

 

[Concerned American]

Are people following the mitigation regulations?

They are around here. People are almost universally wearing masks in Walmart, and bars,taverns and cocktail lounges are shuttered.

Nice. Keep up the good work!

It isn't helping, deaths and infections are up- disproving the efficacy of the restrictions.

I don’t think that disproves anything. We know this virus spreads through human contact so if people aren’t distancing, washing and properly masking then it is going to spread. The fact that it’s spiking just tells that people aren’t acting safely. You can have all the laws and restrictions you want but if people don’t follow then it’s not going to be effective

Here, drink some more koolaid.

That’s all you got?! Haha

Simple logic dictates that if you are trying to stop the spread and the procedures that you are using are ineffective, you try something else. You don't try to convince everyone that you have a new set of clothes while you walk around naked. That would be insanity and you and your communist cohorts are insane if you think you are going to force your un American BS on me. Keep your nose right up that lemming's ass in front of you.

Simple logic shows that a virus that spreads through human contact can only be prevented by limiting or blocking human contact. Masking is a way to keep human contact but limit the spread of the virus. We could always eliminate that and just lock everybody in their homes for a month and wipe it all out. Wanna do that instead?

If you had listened to what I have been telling you all day long, you would have heard WA HAS BEEN LOCKED DOWN AND MASKING FOR NEARLY TWO MONTHS BY GOVERNOR'S EDICT. WA COVID NUMBERS ARE STILL SPIKING. That's two months moron. So take your BS down the road--you are lying and I've spent my last effort to educate you. Go back to your basement and play with yourself.

I have family in WA. Big Trump supporters. They think COViD is a hoax manufactured to elect Biden. Are you telling me that because WA has strict laws that people like my family are Obeying them them? You know the spread comes from contact right? People are not listening to the regulations. That’s my whole point. You’re on the idiotic side of the argument and the push back and disobedience y’all give only make the laws and regulations stricter when spikes result. You’re making the problem worse. Smarten up. The quickest way out of this is to distance and reduce the spread

Maybe your relatives are smarter than you. I think that is more likely than the lemming position that you hold.

I’m sure you do think they are smarter. But who cares about that. I think you’re a moron you think I’m a moron. That’s boring. I prefer continuing to make you sound foolish by simply using facts and reality.

I'm still waiting for you to produce anything but your personal feelings and innuendo. You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you. You've been following the MSM "science" Like I told someone else on this thread, Scientific FACT does not change unlike yours and Jay Inslee's "new science"

 

[Lesh]

It is irrelevant since transmission still occurs at a significant level.

Really. What exact "level" is that?

Be specific and use links. We'll check...

 

[Sunsettommy]

It is irrelevant since transmission still occurs at a significant level.

Really. What exact "level" is that?

Be specific and use links. We'll check...

I have done so many times in the forum, it gets ignored because it doesn't fit the liberal narrative.

I have posted over TWO dozen peer reviewed papers on mask transmissions... it gets ignored.

I have posted many doctors reports about masks, they are all the same, masks doesn't stop transmission, often not by much either.

Not going to anymore, you will ignore them too as so many asshole leftists did before you.

 

[Concerned American]

It is irrelevant since transmission still occurs at a significant level.

Really. What exact "level" is that?

Be specific and use links. We'll check...

I have done so many times in the forum, it gets ignored because it doesn't fit the liberal narrative.

I have posted over TWO dozen peer reviewed papers on mask transmissions... it gets ignored.

I have posted many doctors reports about masks, they are all the same, masks doesn't stop transmission, often not by much either.

Not going to anymore, you will ignore them too as so many asshole leftists did before you.

That moron trolls the board spouting the same garbage. He has become ignore meat.

 

[Slade3200]

W

Are people following the mitigation regulations?

They are around here. People are almost universally wearing masks in Walmart, and bars,taverns and cocktail lounges are shuttered.

Nice. Keep up the good work!

It isn't helping, deaths and infections are up- disproving the efficacy of the restrictions.

I don’t think that disproves anything. We know this virus spreads through human contact so if people aren’t distancing, washing and properly masking then it is going to spread. The fact that it’s spiking just tells that people aren’t acting safely. You can have all the laws and restrictions you want but if people don’t follow then it’s not going to be effective

Here, drink some more koolaid.

That’s all you got?! Haha

Simple logic dictates that if you are trying to stop the spread and the procedures that you are using are ineffective, you try something else. You don't try to convince everyone that you have a new set of clothes while you walk around naked. That would be insanity and you and your communist cohorts are insane if you think you are going to force your un American BS on me. Keep your nose right up that lemming's ass in front of you.

The reason why we’ve been so bad at stopping the spread is because of dipshits like yourself and Trump drones fighting tooth and nail against a United effort to practice safety protocols. Yes Dems leaders and liberals also break the rules but at least they are trying to push and support the right kind of messaging and actions. You all that try and push arguments that this thing is a commie hoax or masks don’t work or it’s bio terrorism from China are just straight up retarded

We are not fighting tooth and nail against a united effort to practice safety protocols. We are fighting against a GOVERNMENT OVERREACH to control a free population. If you haven't liked tooth and nail, you're really not going to like the lead injection you'll get if you attempt to infringe on my God-given rights moron. Stay in your own basement and STAY OUT OF MY LIFE.

You’re saying that chicken wire is just as effective as a cloth mask. You’re fighting against the recommended safety practices. That has nothing to do with laws and regulations and government control. You are trying to delegitimize those who are trying to promote safe practices because you’ve made it into a political fight. Had we United with a unified message and effort to distance and wash and mask up and actually followed through with it like a responsible society should be able to do... then there would be no need for lock down and laws and government intervention. But we are a country full of morons as you and you ILK prove on a daily basis

Like Piglosi encouraging people to party in Chinatown in Feb? Like Piglosi and Lightfoot figuring their coif was more important than your precious public safety? Like Gavin Newsom locking everyone down and then attending an indoor dining super spreader event? Take it down the road you holier than thou hypocritical caddie. You probably were first in line to denounce Trump for golfing at his own course.

Yes like all of those things

And yes like you, doing your caddie job. I wasn't aware golfing was essential. Hypocrite.

You have no clue what you are talking about tonto. It is amusing to watch though

 

[Lesh]

it gets ignored because

Because it's bullshit.

But then you also think
the virus is a hoax
The vaccine is useless
Trump should be lauded because he supposedly got the vaccine (which you think is useless) out so quickly
Oh yea...and Trump won the election

Do I have it about right?

 

[Rigby5]

I would no be surprised if many people continue wearing masks in public for years to come.

They probably will. I never did start wearing one. No one says anything down here.

Mask are how Democrats cause covid outbreaks. People wear the mask then touch infected surfaces, then touch their mask. Then breath in virus all day along with other germs.

Haha, yeah man great thinking. Amazing how doctors haven’t figured that out yet. You should go on tour and spread your findings to the world!!

You're an idiot. Doctors do know. They said as much when this all began. Nobody is using mask correctly. i hope you reuse your mask everyday and touch it all the time.

Yep. Masks are great in the OR because they prevent sweat, hair, bacteria from dropping into an open field which could be deadly. Viruses....nope.

Really? So tell me, how do doctors and nurses treat Covid patients without getting infected?

Many of them do get infected. I know several doctors and nurses that have gotten infected. Most don't because of their immune system.

Those that don’t, don‘t because of tbe precautions they take like masks. Not immune system. It is a NOVEL virus, which means the human immune has not encountered it before and lacks tbe antibodies.

Wrong.
Novel means a hybrid between 2 very old viruses, like a cross between 2 dog breeds.
It is not really new at all, and you WILL likely be immune.
There has never been any virus that most people are not already immune to.
Why do you think the majority of those infected are asymptomatic?
It is because they are already inherently immune.
And that seems to also apply to almost all children.

And by the way, no one normally has antibodies ahead of time.
You body makes them after the fact, when exosomes have communicated a threat.
The B-cells and T-cells that have memory are not the antibodies themselves.
The difference is the B-cells and T-cells can last over 50 years, but antibodies never last more than a month.

I don’t know where you get that definition of novel from, here is where I got it:


What is a novel coronavirus?

A novel coronavirus is a new coronavirus that has not been previously identified. The virus causing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is not the same as the coronaviruses that commonly circulate among humans and cause mild illness, like the common cold.Sep 1, 2020

Mild cases occur not because a person is already immune, but because their immune systems are more able to fight it off (or not go into overdrive). Also genetics can play a role.

Novel does not mean completely new, but anything slightly new enough to be recognizably different.
This is a coronavirus, so it does not even LOOK new.
Nor can it be genetically very new, because although people often mistakenly call a new variant a mutation, it isn't. A mutation is a random genetic change, and that almost never survives at all. This covid-19 is actually a hybrid, where 2 existing virus species both deposit their RNA into the same nucleus, and they combine. So it is not at all new really, just a combination of 2 really old viruses. This is like the child of 2 parents, and is the combination of the 2. It is different in that it is not either one of the parents, but is not really new because it has nothing the pair of parent did not already collectively have to offer.

And by the way, you clearly do not understand what immunity is. Immunity is NOT magic, It IS where the immune system is more able to fight it off (or not go into overdrive). Anything else would require magic.
For example, many people incorrectly think immunity means you can't get re-infected. That is totally wrong. Being able to prevent reinfection would require magic.

 

[Rigby5]

Masks cause reduced Oxygen intake

Reduced Oxygen intake causes gradual brain damage

Brain damage means Morons can't think for themselves

Mission accomplished !

This has literally been disproven countless times, Congratulations for trying to sling more bullshit I guess.

No, it has never been disproven.
Clearly you get less oxygen in the blood when you wear a mask.
They can be very uncomfortable and you feel like you are drowning or going to pass out sometimes.
If they worked it and there was a risk they avoided, that would be one thing.,
But most likely there not only is almost no risk, but the masks likely not only do not help, but instead do great harm by "flattening the curve" and making the epidemic last far longer than it normally would have otherwise.

 

[Rigby5]

it gets ignored because

Because it's bullshit.

But then you also think
the virus is a hoax
The vaccine is useless
Trump should be lauded because he supposedly got the vaccine (which you think is useless) out so quickly
Oh yea...and Trump won the election

Do I have it about right?

There is a virus but the epidemic is a hoax because it easily could have been ended in March by letting herd immunity use the spike to end it, through host burn out.
All the deaths after that are deliberate, from "flattening the curve" to deliberately spread it as far and deep as possible.
The vaccine is useless because covid-19 is not endemic to humans, but is zoonotic instead, so is not coming back, ever.

But like all presidents, Trump has nothing to do with health care at all, and it is pretty clear he lost the election.

 

[Slade3200]

Masks cause reduced Oxygen intake

Reduced Oxygen intake causes gradual brain damage

Brain damage means Morons can't think for themselves

Mission accomplished !

This has literally been disproven countless times, Congratulations for trying to sling more bullshit I guess.

No, it has never been disproven.
Clearly you get less oxygen in the blood when you wear a mask.
They can be very uncomfortable and you feel like you are drowning or going to pass out sometimes.
If they worked it and there was a risk they avoided, that would be one thing.,
But most likely there not only is almost no risk, but the masks likely not only do not help, but instead do great harm by "flattening the curve" and making the epidemic last far longer than it normally would have otherwise.

Haha, so all these nurses and doctors who wear masks everyday as part of their job are doing so knowingly damaging their own health? Your logic is brilliant!

 

[Lesh]

it gets ignored because

Because it's bullshit.

But then you also think
the virus is a hoax
The vaccine is useless
Trump should be lauded because he supposedly got the vaccine (which you think is useless) out so quickly
Oh yea...and Trump won the election

Do I have it about right?

There is a virus but the epidemic is a hoax because it easily could have been ended in March by letting herd immunity use the spike to end it, through host burn out.
All the deaths after that are deliberate, from "flattening the curve" to deliberately spread it as far and deep as possible.
The vaccine is useless because covid-19 is not endemic to humans, but is zoonotic instead, so is not coming back, ever.

But like all presidents, Trump has nothing to do with health care at all, and it is pretty clear he lost the election.

nothing but word salad

Not a lick of reason or logic or science in any of that

 

[JoeMoma]

I would no be surprised if many people continue wearing masks in public for years to come.

They probably will. I never did start wearing one. No one says anything down here.

Mask are how Democrats cause covid outbreaks. People wear the mask then touch infected surfaces, then touch their mask. Then breath in virus all day along with other germs.

Haha, yeah man great thinking. Amazing how doctors haven’t figured that out yet. You should go on tour and spread your findings to the world!!

You're an idiot. Doctors do know. They said as much when this all began. Nobody is using mask correctly. i hope you reuse your mask everyday and touch it all the time.

Yep. Masks are great in the OR because they prevent sweat, hair, bacteria from dropping into an open field which could be deadly. Viruses....nope.

Really? So tell me, how do doctors and nurses treat Covid patients without getting infected?

Many of them do get infected. I know several doctors and nurses that have gotten infected. Most don't because of their immune system.

Those that don’t, don‘t because of tbe precautions they take like masks. Not immune system. It is a NOVEL virus, which means the human immune has not encountered it before and lacks tbe antibodies.

Wrong.
Novel means a hybrid between 2 very old viruses, like a cross between 2 dog breeds.
It is not really new at all, and you WILL likely be immune.
There has never been any virus that most people are not already immune to.
Why do you think the majority of those infected are asymptomatic?
It is because they are already inherently immune.
And that seems to also apply to almost all children.

And by the way, no one normally has antibodies ahead of time.
You body makes them after the fact, when exosomes have communicated a threat.
The B-cells and T-cells that have memory are not the antibodies themselves.
The difference is the B-cells and T-cells can last over 50 years, but antibodies never last more than a month.

I don’t know where you get that definition of novel from, here is where I got it:


What is a novel coronavirus?

A novel coronavirus is a new coronavirus that has not been previously identified. The virus causing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is not the same as the coronaviruses that commonly circulate among humans and cause mild illness, like the common cold.Sep 1, 2020

Mild cases occur not because a person is already immune, but because their immune systems are more able to fight it off (or not go into overdrive). Also genetics can play a role.

Novel does not mean completely new, but anything slightly new enough to be recognizably different.
This is a coronavirus, so it does not even LOOK new.
Nor can it be genetically very new, because although people often mistakenly call a new variant a mutation, it isn't. A mutation is a random genetic change, and that almost never survives at all. This covid-19 is actually a hybrid, where 2 existing virus species both deposit their RNA into the same nucleus, and they combine. So it is not at all new really, just a combination of 2 really old viruses. This is like the child of 2 parents, and is the combination of the 2. It is different in that it is not either one of the parents, but is not really new because it has nothing the pair of parent did not already collectively have to offer.

And by the way, you clearly do not understand what immunity is. Immunity is NOT magic, It IS where the immune system is more able to fight it off (or not go into overdrive). Anything else would require magic.
For example, many people incorrectly think immunity means you can't get re-infected. That is totally wrong. Being able to prevent reinfection would require magic.

That is the first I've read about Covid-19 being a hybrid.

 

[Rigby5]

Masks cause reduced Oxygen intake

Reduced Oxygen intake causes gradual brain damage

Brain damage means Morons can't think for themselves

Mission accomplished !

This has literally been disproven countless times, Congratulations for trying to sling more bullshit I guess.

No, it has never been disproven.
Clearly you get less oxygen in the blood when you wear a mask.
They can be very uncomfortable and you feel like you are drowning or going to pass out sometimes.
If they worked it and there was a risk they avoided, that would be one thing.,
But most likely there not only is almost no risk, but the masks likely not only do not help, but instead do great harm by "flattening the curve" and making the epidemic last far longer than it normally would have otherwise.

Haha, so all these nurses and doctors who wear masks everyday as part of their job are doing so knowingly damaging their own health? Your logic is brilliant!

Doctors and nurses normally do not wear masks except for surgery.
When they do wear masks, they are not to hold back viruses, but large spit droplets containing large bacteria, so they are VERY porous.
When they are working in an infectious ward, they wear shield and have full body covering that often also include fans. But they also are not exerting themselves in these personal protection equipment suits, (PPEs). And they normally do not spend much time wearing protection, because it is not healthy.

 

[Rigby5]

it gets ignored because

Because it's bullshit.

But then you also think
the virus is a hoax
The vaccine is useless
Trump should be lauded because he supposedly got the vaccine (which you think is useless) out so quickly
Oh yea...and Trump won the election

Do I have it about right?

There is a virus but the epidemic is a hoax because it easily could have been ended in March by letting herd immunity use the spike to end it, through host burn out.
All the deaths after that are deliberate, from "flattening the curve" to deliberately spread it as far and deep as possible.
The vaccine is useless because covid-19 is not endemic to humans, but is zoonotic instead, so is not coming back, ever.

But like all presidents, Trump has nothing to do with health care at all, and it is pretty clear he lost the election.

nothing but word salad

Not a lick of reason or logic or science in any of that

Nonsense.
Tell me a single epidemic that was not ended by herd immunity and was ended by "flattening the curve"?
You can't tell me a single one, because there has never been one.
Even epidemics like Polio were ended by herd immunity, and the 1948 epidemic ended before the Salk vaccine became available in 1957.

Epidemics we need vaccines for are the ones that are endemic to humans, like measles or flu, that keep coming back.
Something that accidentally crossed over once from bats, we do not need or want a vaccine for.
Because its not likely ever coming back.
Every vaccine you take torqs out your immune system a little bit more, and that makes for all sorts of new dangers from an over active immune system, like HIV, Lupus, allergies, diabetes, etc.

 

[Lesh]

COVID-19 and Your Health

Symptoms, testing, what to do if sick, daily activities, and more.

www.cdc.gov

Just stop

 

[Papageorgio]

I would no be surprised if many people continue wearing masks in public for years to come.

They probably will. I never did start wearing one. No one says anything down here.

My brother agreed with you. He joked about eating in every Chinese restaurant he could find, just to prove the virus was a hoax. He's in the ICU on a respirator right now.

I hope he has a speedy recovery. It took me 11 days to get over it, but I didn't have it that bad. I was just real fatigued and what I would call a really bad cold.

 

[Rigby5]

I would no be surprised if many people continue wearing masks in public for years to come.

They probably will. I never did start wearing one. No one says anything down here.

Mask are how Democrats cause covid outbreaks. People wear the mask then touch infected surfaces, then touch their mask. Then breath in virus all day along with other germs.

Haha, yeah man great thinking. Amazing how doctors haven’t figured that out yet. You should go on tour and spread your findings to the world!!

You're an idiot. Doctors do know. They said as much when this all began. Nobody is using mask correctly. i hope you reuse your mask everyday and touch it all the time.

Yep. Masks are great in the OR because they prevent sweat, hair, bacteria from dropping into an open field which could be deadly. Viruses....nope.

Really? So tell me, how do doctors and nurses treat Covid patients without getting infected?

Many of them do get infected. I know several doctors and nurses that have gotten infected. Most don't because of their immune system.

Those that don’t, don‘t because of tbe precautions they take like masks. Not immune system. It is a NOVEL virus, which means the human immune has not encountered it before and lacks tbe antibodies.

Wrong.
Novel means a hybrid between 2 very old viruses, like a cross between 2 dog breeds.
It is not really new at all, and you WILL likely be immune.
There has never been any virus that most people are not already immune to.
Why do you think the majority of those infected are asymptomatic?
It is because they are already inherently immune.
And that seems to also apply to almost all children.

And by the way, no one normally has antibodies ahead of time.
You body makes them after the fact, when exosomes have communicated a threat.
The B-cells and T-cells that have memory are not the antibodies themselves.
The difference is the B-cells and T-cells can last over 50 years, but antibodies never last more than a month.

I don’t know where you get that definition of novel from, here is where I got it:


What is a novel coronavirus?

A novel coronavirus is a new coronavirus that has not been previously identified. The virus causing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is not the same as the coronaviruses that commonly circulate among humans and cause mild illness, like the common cold.Sep 1, 2020

Mild cases occur not because a person is already immune, but because their immune systems are more able to fight it off (or not go into overdrive). Also genetics can play a role.

Novel does not mean completely new, but anything slightly new enough to be recognizably different.
This is a coronavirus, so it does not even LOOK new.
Nor can it be genetically very new, because although people often mistakenly call a new variant a mutation, it isn't. A mutation is a random genetic change, and that almost never survives at all. This covid-19 is actually a hybrid, where 2 existing virus species both deposit their RNA into the same nucleus, and they combine. So it is not at all new really, just a combination of 2 really old viruses. This is like the child of 2 parents, and is the combination of the 2. It is different in that it is not either one of the parents, but is not really new because it has nothing the pair of parent did not already collectively have to offer.

And by the way, you clearly do not understand what immunity is. Immunity is NOT magic, It IS where the immune system is more able to fight it off (or not go into overdrive). Anything else would require magic.
For example, many people incorrectly think immunity means you can't get re-infected. That is totally wrong. Being able to prevent reinfection would require magic.

That is the first I've read about Covid-19 being a hybrid.

Doctors pretty universally talk about "mutations" when they are referring to any new virus variant, but that really is never correct. A mutation is any random damage event happening to the DNA or RNA, like from radiation. And that almost always results in the genetic material being non-viable any more. You can't just randomly damage something and expect it to survive at all.
But covid-19 was not at all the result of or just a random event like radiation causing a break in the genetic protein. It was the combination of 2 existing virus RNA information from 2 viruses injecting their RNA into the same host nucleus. That is technically not exactly a hybrid because it is not meiosis or mitosis, but the closest word for such a cross is hybrid. That is a much closer fit than "mutation", which really is totally incorrect for any new virus variant.

 

[Rigby5]

W

Are people following the mitigation regulations?

They are around here. People are almost universally wearing masks in Walmart, and bars,taverns and cocktail lounges are shuttered.

Nice. Keep up the good work!

It isn't helping, deaths and infections are up- disproving the efficacy of the restrictions.

I don’t think that disproves anything. We know this virus spreads through human contact so if people aren’t distancing, washing and properly masking then it is going to spread. The fact that it’s spiking just tells that people aren’t acting safely. You can have all the laws and restrictions you want but if people don’t follow then it’s not going to be effective

Here, drink some more koolaid.

That’s all you got?! Haha

Simple logic dictates that if you are trying to stop the spread and the procedures that you are using are ineffective, you try something else. You don't try to convince everyone that you have a new set of clothes while you walk around naked. That would be insanity and you and your communist cohorts are insane if you think you are going to force your un American BS on me. Keep your nose right up that lemming's ass in front of you.

The reason why we’ve been so bad at stopping the spread is because of dipshits like yourself and Trump drones fighting tooth and nail against a United effort to practice safety protocols. Yes Dems leaders and liberals also break the rules but at least they are trying to push and support the right kind of messaging and actions. You all that try and push arguments that this thing is a commie hoax or masks don’t work or it’s bio terrorism from China are just straight up retarded

We are not fighting tooth and nail against a united effort to practice safety protocols. We are fighting against a GOVERNMENT OVERREACH to control a free population. If you haven't liked tooth and nail, you're really not going to like the lead injection you'll get if you attempt to infringe on my God-given rights moron. Stay in your own basement and STAY OUT OF MY LIFE.

You’re saying that chicken wire is just as effective as a cloth mask. You’re fighting against the recommended safety practices. That has nothing to do with laws and regulations and government control. You are trying to delegitimize those who are trying to promote safe practices because you’ve made it into a political fight. Had we United with a unified message and effort to distance and wash and mask up and actually followed through with it like a responsible society should be able to do... then there would be no need for lock down and laws and government intervention. But we are a country full of morons as you and you ILK prove on a daily basis

Wrong.
The whole lock down approach does not work, can not work, and has never worked.
What does work is full quarantine with contact tracing, herd immunity, vaccination, variolation, or something like that.
The ONLY time masks are at all useful is for a sneeze or cough because only then is there a projection of virus spores in the saliva droplets of any significant distance.
And that is not only exceedingly rare but I always have seen those wearing masks lifting it for coughs or sneezes.

If you knew anything about epidemiology, you would know that the smallest death toll comes from local burn out of hosts to create local herd immunity, which quickly ends the whole epidemic. So "flattening the curve" to prevent the burn out spike, is murder. It forced the epidemic to become perpetual instead.
That would be like every time Ebola was going to end by host burn out, deliberately providing some new hosts, in order to prevent the Ebola from burning out. It is the stupidest strategy in the world, that can never work.

 

[Osiris-ODS]