Mass shooting: At Least 11 Shot At Gilroy Garlic Festival

[Blues Man]

I don't care what goes on in other countries

Didn’t think you had an intelligent response. So you prefer lots of murder.

We already know how to reduce murders committed with firearms and that is to actually enforce the gun laws we already have on the books.

And I still don't give a shit about what other countries do,

There is no real free speech in any of those countries you want to be like either.

Yes we do. Homicides dropped drastically after we got background checks.

And they dropped even more when we were actually prosecuting gun offenses as federal crimes

Virginia Project Exile

Study 1
Firearm Homicide Rates, Project Exile
Rosenfeld and colleagues (2005) found a statistically significant intervention effect for Project Exile. Firearm homicides in Richmond exhibited a 22 percent yearly decline, compared with the average reduction of about 10 percent per year for other large U.S. cities. The difference is statistically significant.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Yet countries with strong gun control and fewer in jail have much lower homicide rates.

And we tend to incarcerate mostly nonviolent criminals.

 

[Polishprince]

FYI an AR 15 is not "really" dangerous
In fact there are a hell of lot more things that are more dangerous than guns out there in the world.

What you people can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for the bad acts of another person.

Maybe we should all have our drivers licenses suspended because some people drive drunk huh?

And yet they have been used to kill over 50 people really quickly by one shooter . Seems dangerous to me.

So?

Anyone could do the same thing with a really big truck and a snow plow

And it's not the gun that is dangerous it's the person shooting it that is the danger

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

Doesn't negate the fact that it's the person who is the danger not the gun

And a dangerous person with easy access to guns is a whole lot more danger than an unarmed one.

outlawing guns won't make access any less easy for dangerous people.

Dangerous individuals- juvenile delinquents, felons, the insane, Illegal aliens- still aren't permitted to buy weapons in legal outlets. They have to go to guys selling out of their cars, hotel rooms, backrooms of bars, cocktail lounges and taverns. Those guys don't do background checks.

Of course, Draconian gun control will just push law abiders into the black market for their self-preservation needs. Is that what libs want?

 

[Brain357]

And a dangerous person with easy access to guns is a whole lot more danger than an unarmed one.

And it still only accounts for less than 1% of all murders

Which is a lot of death in a country of over 300 million. A huge percent of murder involves firearms. Hundreds die each year just in accidents.

So now you want to make everything that can accidentally kill you illegal too?

MAybe it would be easier for you to list the things you think should be legal

Just sharing the facts. We can do away with useless things like guns that can accidentally kill you.

HOw many other things that can accidentally kill you are "useless"

And FYI self defense with the best tool for the job is extremely useful

Haven’t needed one. Think those involved in criminal activities are most likely to need it.

 

[Blues Man]

FYI an AR 15 is not "really" dangerous
In fact there are a hell of lot more things that are more dangerous than guns out there in the world.

What you people can't seem to understand is that I am not responsible for the bad acts of another person.

Maybe we should all have our drivers licenses suspended because some people drive drunk huh?

And yet they have been used to kill over 50 people really quickly by one shooter . Seems dangerous to me.

So?

Anyone could do the same thing with a really big truck and a snow plow

And it's not the gun that is dangerous it's the person shooting it that is the danger

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

-------------------------------------- YOU just keep HIDING and being Scared . I expect that kind of behavior from you and yer ilk Brian .

The scared ones run around with guns like you while our children die. Sad.

not one person has ever died as a result of my gun ownership

 

[Brain357]

Didn’t think you had an intelligent response. So you prefer lots of murder.

We already know how to reduce murders committed with firearms and that is to actually enforce the gun laws we already have on the books.

And I still don't give a shit about what other countries do,

There is no real free speech in any of those countries you want to be like either.

Yes we do. Homicides dropped drastically after we got background checks.

And they dropped even more when we were actually prosecuting gun offenses as federal crimes

Virginia Project Exile

Study 1
Firearm Homicide Rates, Project Exile
Rosenfeld and colleagues (2005) found a statistically significant intervention effect for Project Exile. Firearm homicides in Richmond exhibited a 22 percent yearly decline, compared with the average reduction of about 10 percent per year for other large U.S. cities. The difference is statistically significant.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Yet countries with strong gun control and fewer in jail have much lower homicide rates.

And we tend to incarcerate mostly nonviolent criminals.

We incarcerate a lot of everyone.

 

[Brain357]

And yet they have been used to kill over 50 people really quickly by one shooter . Seems dangerous to me.

So?

Anyone could do the same thing with a really big truck and a snow plow

And it's not the gun that is dangerous it's the person shooting it that is the danger

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

-------------------------------------- YOU just keep HIDING and being Scared . I expect that kind of behavior from you and yer ilk Brian .

The scared ones run around with guns like you while our children die. Sad.

not one person has ever died as a result of my gun ownership

This mass shooter would have said the same thing a few days ago.

 

[pismoe]

View attachment 271948

"we found that about 86 percent of mass public shootings took place in gun-free zones from 2009 to 2016."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...pen-in-gun-free-zones/?utm_term=.bfa951cdbf83

Bet they didn’t get the gun in a gun free zone did they? The problem is easy access to weapons for mass killing.

What is your criteria for defining a "problem?"

People dying regularly, something that doesn’t happen in other countries.

Actually, it does happen in other countries all the time. America is in the middle of the pack as far as murder rates. The homicide rates in places like Congo, Mexico, El Salvador is far higher than in America.

Yes unstable countries. How about Germany, UK, Japan, France?

------------------------------- Instability can happen pretty quickly , see 'germany' of the 30s and 40s Brian . See 'germany' and other 'euro' countries TODAY with their imported populations of violent third worlders Brian .

 

[Polishprince]

I don't care what goes on in other countries

Didn’t think you had an intelligent response. So you prefer lots of murder.

We already know how to reduce murders committed with firearms and that is to actually enforce the gun laws we already have on the books.

And I still don't give a shit about what other countries do,

There is no real free speech in any of those countries you want to be like either.

Yes we do. Homicides dropped drastically after we got background checks.

And they dropped even more when we were actually prosecuting gun offenses as federal crimes

Virginia Project Exile

Study 1
Firearm Homicide Rates, Project Exile
Rosenfeld and colleagues (2005) found a statistically significant intervention effect for Project Exile. Firearm homicides in Richmond exhibited a 22 percent yearly decline, compared with the average reduction of about 10 percent per year for other large U.S. cities. The difference is statistically significant.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Yet countries with strong gun control and fewer in jail have much lower homicide rates.

Those are countries that really have little in common with America. Those countries which we are similar with have similar rates

 

[emilynghiem]

Next time don't use a stupid example to make your point

Well there you go again, coming up empty on making a substantive argument. Let me help. Why is my example stupid? What is false or wrong about what I said?

WHo here is going to bring a fully automatic machine gun to a football game?

No one that's who

Ergo it was a stupid example

The two guys I was speaking to in this thread both said that they feel we have the constitutional right to do being a machine gun to a school. Do you agree with that?

So no it wasn’t a stupid example it was defining the boundaries of where we draw the line in regulation. So where do you stand?

Dear Slade3200
Having a local agreement on school policy within a district is LOCAL.
That's different from FEDERAL REGULATIONS trying to ban or regulate guns for everyone across states and the nation.

Why don't you get that these are different?

Schools can decide democratically on their own if students can give invocations or speeches
referencing things that the local admin can approve or disapprove, or the students can vote on.

Why can't you and other liberals understand that's totally DIFFERENT from
judges or Congress in DC "mandating a policy for the entire nation" where nobody has a say otherwise!

By common sense, schools would not allow weapons that disrupt or threaten to breach the peace in
the classroom and school setting.

Why would you think that "federal legislation or regulation" is needed for something simple
like that which just requires common sense school policies, such as not bringing pets to school
unless approved by the teachers or administration. Does that require Congress to pass federal laws?

This is one area that really separates liberals from conservatives.

Just because a local law or state law on safety or on car insurance is democratically
voted on by people on that level,
suddenly the LIBERAL mind makes a huge leap that this means it's okay for
FEDERAL GOVT to mandate such laws FOR THE ENTIRE NATION.

That's not people voting on it or having a say through their local district reps for their own
district or state.

Going through Congress means 400 million people across 50 states are all
competing to be represented, and that's why the Constitution was set up to
LIMIT what duties and decisions authorized to Federal Govt so it DOESN'T
involve individual rights that should be decided democratically on state and local levels.

Like Duh.

Why don't Liberals get this?
There is a HUGE difference between local policies that only affect that district or
a state at most, vs. nationalized policies that attempt to make ONE LAW for the
entire population across all 50 states through a central Congressional vote.

Can you not grasp the difference in representation that different
issues require that are better decided LOCALLY vs. NATIONALLY?

The constitutionalists here don’t think states have the rights to limit or regulate the second amendment.

Dear Slade3200
The way to say this using Constitutional language with a Constitutionalist
is the Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights. So the rest of the
Bill of Rights has to be equally enforced and obeyed to prevent any criminal
abuses of the 2nd Amendment.

This way of explaining it precludes and prevents any need for additional regulations.
Except maybe to REQUIRE that people invoking the Second Amendment be
LAW ABIDING CITIZENS who agree to uphold the rest of the Constitution.

(which includes right of the people PEACEABLY to assemble and to
SECURITY in their persons, houses, and effects and not to be deprived
of liberty without DUE PROCESS OF LAWS. So all Constitutionalists
believe in those principles as part of the Bill of Rights. by enforcing
all these principles consistently in the SAME CONTEXT, then
the 2nd Amendment then cannot be abused to violate laws or rights of others)

the people who invoke and defend the 2nd Amendment ALREADY believe
in enforcing the other laws within the same context. So this isn't adding
any new regulations, it's just enforcing Constitutional laws as a whole.

 

[Defiant1]

We already know how to reduce murders committed with firearms and that is to actually enforce the gun laws we already have on the books.

And I still don't give a shit about what other countries do,

There is no real free speech in any of those countries you want to be like either.

Yes we do. Homicides dropped drastically after we got background checks.

And they dropped even more when we were actually prosecuting gun offenses as federal crimes

Virginia Project Exile

Study 1
Firearm Homicide Rates, Project Exile
Rosenfeld and colleagues (2005) found a statistically significant intervention effect for Project Exile. Firearm homicides in Richmond exhibited a 22 percent yearly decline, compared with the average reduction of about 10 percent per year for other large U.S. cities. The difference is statistically significant.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Yet countries with strong gun control and fewer in jail have much lower homicide rates.

And we tend to incarcerate mostly nonviolent criminals.

We incarcerate a lot of everyone.

Not enough.

 

[Blues Man]

We already know how to reduce murders committed with firearms and that is to actually enforce the gun laws we already have on the books.

And I still don't give a shit about what other countries do,

There is no real free speech in any of those countries you want to be like either.

Yes we do. Homicides dropped drastically after we got background checks.

And they dropped even more when we were actually prosecuting gun offenses as federal crimes

Virginia Project Exile

Study 1
Firearm Homicide Rates, Project Exile
Rosenfeld and colleagues (2005) found a statistically significant intervention effect for Project Exile. Firearm homicides in Richmond exhibited a 22 percent yearly decline, compared with the average reduction of about 10 percent per year for other large U.S. cities. The difference is statistically significant.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Yet countries with strong gun control and fewer in jail have much lower homicide rates.

And we tend to incarcerate mostly nonviolent criminals.

We incarcerate a lot of everyone.

no we incrcerate more people for noviolent crimes than we do for violent crimes

 

[Defiant1]

So?

Anyone could do the same thing with a really big truck and a snow plow

And it's not the gun that is dangerous it's the person shooting it that is the danger

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

-------------------------------------- YOU just keep HIDING and being Scared . I expect that kind of behavior from you and yer ilk Brian .

The scared ones run around with guns like you while our children die. Sad.

not one person has ever died as a result of my gun ownership

This mass shooter would have said the same thing a few days ago.

And your plan that would have stopped him?

 

[Brain357]

Bet they didn’t get the gun in a gun free zone did they? The problem is easy access to weapons for mass killing.

What is your criteria for defining a "problem?"

People dying regularly, something that doesn’t happen in other countries.

Actually, it does happen in other countries all the time. America is in the middle of the pack as far as murder rates. The homicide rates in places like Congo, Mexico, El Salvador is far higher than in America.

Yes unstable countries. How about Germany, UK, Japan, France?

------------------------------- Instability can happen pretty quickly , see 'germany' of the 30s and 40s Brian . See 'germany' and other 'euro' countries TODAY with their imported populations of violent third worlders Brian .

You claiming we are unstable?

 

[Slade3200]

Well there you ago, another who is fine with anybody taking a machine gun into schools... this is why it’s not a dumb question. It gets right to the heart of the issue and shows how far somebody will go.

To somebody like myself it is obviously dangerous and inappropriate to have guns in schools like that. I just don’t trust my fellow citizens to be cool calm and responsible all the time and I’d prefer to limit, not openly allow mass killing machines around my kids. People are over emotional idiots in general. If they want to carry they better damn well prove that they are knowledgeable in gun safety and show that they are stable/responsible people.

that isn't what he said, now is it?
he has no problem with people owning machine guns. i would disagree but his opinion, his right.
he has no problem with people who own property setting the rules for what is allowed in on it. this would include schools and the like. if you don't want guns on there you can be a gun free zone. your call has he said.

he said he feels IF YOU ARE LICENSED you should be able to carry a concealed weapon anywhere. while i could think this contradicts his previous statement of letting someone set the rules for their property - he never said a thing about carrying machine guns around schools.

last i checked, a machine gun is NOT a concealed weapon so to link that to a school is you doing it for emotional impact and misconstruing what he did in fact say, twisting it to a loose interpretation you'd not allow someone to do to you. in essence you took what he said and slammed it to an extreme "machine guns in schools" statement OF WHICH HE NEVER SAID was cool. you said it for him then went on a rant about his views you just gave him.

i'd ask why you do that but i'm more afraid you'd tell me.

You missed my original question that he was responding to. I was talking to two others yesterday (patriot and bigrebnc) and asked if they supported any citizens ability to walk into a store and buy a machine gun as easy as buying a slurpy and then take it to a high school football game and hold it as they watched. Both posters I was talking to said yes they supported it. Schools and states don’t have the right to infringe on the second amendment. Blues man called it a stupid question and we went from there.

you mean where he said "who would bring a machine gun to a football game?" and followed up with no one, it's a stupid question?

Breaking News - Mass shooting: At Least 11 Shot At Gilroy Garlic Festival

i went back 250 posts and never saw him say it's fine to bring a machine gun to a school. please give me your direct reference.

I had two posters literally say bring guns into schools. And then blues guy calls it a stupid question and when pressed responds with this...
“I don't care if people own machine guns

I have no problem with the owners of any property setting the rules on what is permissible on their property.

That said there is no reason to stop anyone who can legally carry a concealed weapon from doing so anywhere”

You are right he never said the words “bring guns into school”... he played around giving a direct answer so I shot back... I’ll take back my comment and ask him to further clarify if he believes the second amendment can and should be restricted by federal, state and or local laws or should it not. If not then legally anybody would be able to buy and bring a gun into a school. If so then he believes we can regulate it

so like i said - you took pieces of a conversation and put them together on your own - each step requiring an assumption on your part to link the two.

i've pointed this out to you a lot, DamnDude has also and others i'm sure.

before i say someone is ok with bringing a machine gun to school i'm going to ask the direction question. not ask things like "so you think people should own machine guns" and get a yes and then extrapolate to our own ends and in effect, create a strawman along the way. and it looks like he answered your questions, you just didn't like them or they were not what you wanted him to say, so you went this route.

from my vantage point anyway.

I apologized to him and ask him to clarify his position. Thanks for keeping me in check

 

[Blues Man]

So?

Anyone could do the same thing with a really big truck and a snow plow

And it's not the gun that is dangerous it's the person shooting it that is the danger

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

-------------------------------------- YOU just keep HIDING and being Scared . I expect that kind of behavior from you and yer ilk Brian .

The scared ones run around with guns like you while our children die. Sad.

not one person has ever died as a result of my gun ownership

This mass shooter would have said the same thing a few days ago.

irrelevant.

Unless you want to start convicting people of crimes they haven't committed

 

[Brain357]

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

-------------------------------------- YOU just keep HIDING and being Scared . I expect that kind of behavior from you and yer ilk Brian .

The scared ones run around with guns like you while our children die. Sad.

not one person has ever died as a result of my gun ownership

This mass shooter would have said the same thing a few days ago.

And your plan that would have stopped him?

Not letting him legally buy a rifle for mass killing would be a good start.

 

[pismoe]

So?

Anyone could do the same thing with a really big truck and a snow plow

And it's not the gun that is dangerous it's the person shooting it that is the danger

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

Doesn't negate the fact that it's the person who is the danger not the gun

And a dangerous person with easy access to guns is a whole lot more danger than an unarmed one.

And it still only accounts for less than 1% of all murders

Which is a lot of death in a country of over 300 million. A huge percent of murder involves firearms. Hundreds die each year just in accidents.

------------------------------------------- its the price paid to have the FREEDOM to own effective guns Brian . Same as deaths on the highways and byways where we have more deaths caused by cars and vehicles . Vehicle deaths are just the price paid for the FREEDOM to own and use , drive cars and vehicles Brian .

 

[Brain357]

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

-------------------------------------- YOU just keep HIDING and being Scared . I expect that kind of behavior from you and yer ilk Brian .

The scared ones run around with guns like you while our children die. Sad.

not one person has ever died as a result of my gun ownership

This mass shooter would have said the same thing a few days ago.

irrelevant.

Unless you want to start convicting people of crimes they haven't committed

It’s a fact.

 

[Blues Man]

-------------------------------------- YOU just keep HIDING and being Scared . I expect that kind of behavior from you and yer ilk Brian .

The scared ones run around with guns like you while our children die. Sad.

not one person has ever died as a result of my gun ownership

This mass shooter would have said the same thing a few days ago.

And your plan that would have stopped him?

Not letting him legally buy a rifle for mass killing would be a good start.

you mean not letting him buy any rifle though don't you?

 

[Defiant1]

I feel pretty safe from trucks on the 3rd floor of this building. They put up barriers and close roads to take care of that problem.

-------------------------------------- YOU just keep HIDING and being Scared . I expect that kind of behavior from you and yer ilk Brian .

The scared ones run around with guns like you while our children die. Sad.

not one person has ever died as a result of my gun ownership

This mass shooter would have said the same thing a few days ago.

irrelevant.

Unless you want to start convicting people of crimes they haven't committed

You know they would if they could, especially against conservatives.