McDonald’s CA franchisee on new minimum wage: "The sheer scale of the impact is just breathtaking"

[Andylusion]

But according to you it's only increases in wages that cause prices to go up.

So we can agree in wages will not cause employers to layoff needed workers and competition will drive price changes.

FYI...this is called capitalism.

No. Just because wages are not the only cause, does not mean that wages are not a cause. And when you increase wages using government, that cost MUST be passed onto customers.
And yes, competition does drive price changes, but so does the minimum wage and increasing the cost of labor.
You are not saying anything that isn't obvious and well known.

 

[Dadoalex]

22% of Germans are in labor unions. They are not relevant to this discussion.

Really?

Then if all was well with wages why implement a minimum wage?
Unless, of course, all was not well with wages.

Obviously the German government was more appraised of the conditions than you claim to be otherwise why pass an unnecessary law?

Here's a proposal.
Do away with all minimum wages.
Employers pay whatever the market will bear...
BUT
When those employees qualify for welfare because of those wages the employers will be billed for the cost of welfare. medicaid, housing subsidies...

The employer benefits by underpaying but is required to pay the societal cost.

This seems fair tome.

 

[Andylusion]

If the market price is $10 no amount of wage increase will change the market price.

Apparently basic economics wasn't covered in your education.

Yeah it will. Part of "the market price" is the cost of labor.
If you increase the price of labor using the minimum wage, then $10 won't be the market price anymore. Are you seriously suggesting that if the government made a minimum wage of $10 Million dollars, that somehow McDonald's would find a way to charge only $10 to customers and pay employees $10 Million? Because..."that's the market price!"?
Do not see how absolutely absurd that position is?

 

[Dadoalex]

Far Left Communists like Dadoalex fail to recognize that the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT COST in a business' success or failure is labor. Increase labor costs and profit goes down. Yet these same Bolsheviks think that businesses exist to be social welfare agencies.

Your ignorance of economics is obvious.

AND
your ignorance of business expenses is obvious.

AND
Businesses enjoy a great many social benefits. Why would I allow a business to suck at the public teat by forcing its employees to go on welfare because the owner wants another Colorado condo?

 

[Dadoalex]

Yeah it will. Part of "the market price" is the cost of labor.
If you increase the price of labor using the minimum wage, then $10 won't be the market price anymore. Are you seriously suggesting that if the government made a minimum wage of $10 Million dollars, that somehow McDonald's would find a way to charge only $10 to customers and pay employees $10 Million? Because..."that's the market price!"?
Do not see how absolutely absurd that position is?

Yes, I see how absurd your position is.

It is a shame you cannot.

Market price $10
2 sellers, 10 sellers, 1000 sellers...$10 is the market price
Employer 1 has 1 employee, 2nd has 10, third has 50.
Market price is still $10


Guy 3 can't make money at $10? he goes out of business.
Supply slows and prices increase because of lower availability
TILL Guy2 hires some of Guy3 people to increase production which brings prices down.

It's basic economics, too bad you forgot to study it.

 

[Andylusion]

Really?

Then if all was well with wages why implement a minimum wage?
Unless, of course, all was not well with wages.

Obviously the German government was more appraised of the conditions than you claim to be otherwise why pass an unnecessary law?

Here's a proposal.
Do away with all minimum wages.
Employers pay whatever the market will bear...
BUT
When those employees qualify for welfare because of those wages the employers will be billed for the cost of welfare. medicaid, housing subsidies...

The employer benefits by underpaying but is required to pay the societal cost.

This seems fair tome.

Then employers will simply not hire those people, and you will pay the social welfare costs entirely, because they will be earning absolutely nothing.

This is what you people don't seem to understand. The labor is worth, what the labor is worth. I can't pay you the employee, more than the customer is willing to pay me. Nothing you do, no regulation you pass, no government intervention you engage in will change that.
And if you think that no-skill workers are going to find high paying jobs because you ruined their employment, you are just wrong.

I can't pay you more than the customer pays me. Not possible. If I'm running a lawn mowing service, and customer says they'll pay me $35 to mow their lawn, I can't pay you the employee $40 to mow their lawn.
Nothing else about this discussion matters.
"Well they are getting food stamps!".... doesn't matter. I can't pay you $40 to mow someone's lawn, if that customer is only willing to pay me $35. "Well what about welfare and medicaid and social programs!".... DOES NOT MATTER. I cannot pay you more than the customer is willing to pay me. Nothing you say on this matters. Nothing.
Now the only option I would have is to tell the customer "Sorry I have to charge $55 for the mow" and the customer may well say no thanking you, and then I lay you off, and now you earn zero.
Or another option if I have the money, is to buy expensive automated mowers, and have them mow the lawns, and I lay you off.



This is what happened in NYC when the NYC Unions unionized car washes, and demanded $15/hour. Many car washes just closed completely, and all the workers lost their jobs.
And many other car washes converted to full automation, and laid off all their workers.

But this idea that you are going to just mandate high pay for low value labor, that will never happen. It will never happen in your entire life. It has not happened anywhere in the world. It never will.

So back to your claim, that employers are going to be billed for the cost of social programs.... same thing. They simply won't hire people then. Workers will be laid off. Jobs will disappear. Or replaced with automation.
And all those people will collect even more welfare and government benefits, because now they will have an income of zero.

 

[Andylusion]

Your ignorance of economics is obvious.

AND
your ignorance of business expenses is obvious.

AND
Businesses enjoy a great many social benefits. Why would I allow a business to suck at the public teat by forcing its employees to go on welfare because the owner wants another Colorado condo?

No one is forcing any employee to go on welfare. When I worked at Wendy's for $4.25, no one forced me to collect welfare or food stamps or anything. You are just making up stuff.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes, I see how absurd your position is.

It is a shame you cannot.

Market price $10
2 sellers, 10 sellers, 1000 sellers...$10 is the market price
Employer 1 has 1 employee, 2nd has 10, third has 50.
Market price is still $10


Guy 3 can't make money at $10? he goes out of business.
Supply slows and prices increase because of lower availability
TILL Guy2 hires some of Guy3 people to increase production which brings prices down.

It's basic economics, too bad you forgot to study it.

Market price is not still $10. If you raise the price of labor, all of those sellers must increase their prices.
So the market price is no longer $10.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Your ignorance of economics is obvious.

AND
your ignorance of business expenses is obvious.

AND
Businesses enjoy a great many social benefits. Why would I allow a business to suck at the public teat by forcing its employees to go on welfare because the owner wants another Colorado condo?

The sole aim of any good business is profit! Nothing more, nothing less. And they need to be able to control costs.

 

[Mac-7]

But according to you it's only increases in wages that cause prices to go up.

So we can agree in wages will not cause employers to layoff needed workers and competition will drive price changes.

FYI...this is called capitalism.

I didnt say that

Unless you think wages have NO affect

Do you?

 

[Andylusion]

I didnt say that

Unless you think wages have NO affect

Do you?

As near as I can tell, this guys entire argument and belief system is that if the market price for a product is $10 for a burger, then you can raise the minimum wage to a billion dollars a day, and it should have no effect on the price of the product.
That's what I've gotten from all his posts thus far, is that wages have zero effect on price. The company just has to magically make it work.

He's honestly like a character from Atlas Shrugged, where they keep telling Hank Rearden to make it work.

 

[Mac-7]

If the market price is $10 no amount of wage increase will change the market price.

Apparently basic economics wasn't covered in your education.

If wages go up only for one company and not all then market price does not change

The unlucky company simply dies quietly

But if all the companies are hit with higher costs prices will go up

 

[Mac-7]

As near as I can tell, this guys entire argument and belief system is that if the market price for a product is $10 for a burger, then you can raise the minimum wage to a billion dollars a day, and it should have no effect on the price of the product.
That's what I've gotten from all his posts thus far, is that wages have zero effect on price. The company just has to magically make it work.

He's honestly like a character from Atlas Shrugged, where they keep telling Hank Rearden to make it work.

He thinks owners are made of money

 

[Dadoalex]

Then employers will simply not hire those people, ...

And will go out of business.
Your business instincts stinks.

 

[Dadoalex]

No one is forcing any employee to go on welfare. When I worked at Wendy's for $4.25, no one forced me to collect welfare or food stamps or anything. You are just making up stuff.

Wow!
What, 35 years ago?
How many kids did you have?
How much did your apartment cost?

someone's making stuff up.
Me? I'm discussing pure economics.

 

[Dadoalex]

Market price is not still $10. If you raise the price of labor, all of those sellers must increase their prices.
So the market price is no longer $10.

And if 1 does not?

apparently you've never ever ever ever seen what happens when an airline tries to raise fares on a route.

I'm guessing you were busy imagining economic "theories."

 

[Dadoalex]

I didnt say that

Unless you think wages have NO affect

Do you?

That is correct.
If a business cannot recover operating costs it will cease operating.
Market demand determines prices, not employee wages.

Do employee wages of the shipbuilder change the price a billionaire is willing to pay for his yacht?
No, not at all.

 

[Dadoalex]

If wages go up only for one company and not all then market price does not change

The unlucky company simply dies quietly

But if all the companies are hit with higher costs prices will go up

Market demand is the SOLE determiner of prices.

Let me guess...You're a big "BUY AMERICAN" type.
Fcluck quality.
Screw price.
Buy American.

They tried that remember?
It wasn't wages that killed the US auto market.
It was greed as in "planned obsolescence."

 

[Mac-7]

That is correct.
If a business cannot recover operating costs it will cease operating.
Market demand determines prices, not employee wages.

Do employee wages of the shipbuilder change the price a billionaire is willing to pay for his yacht?
No, not at all.

If a business cannot recover operating costs it will cease operating.

Yes. It will raise prices if allowed to

If not the business ceases

Is that your plan?

Drive small business out of business?

What california has done is suppress the economy and shrink the demand for labor

 

[Andylusion]

And will go out of business.
Your business instincts stinks.

Yeah, they go out of business. That is exactly what they do.
Again, the car wash workers in NYC unionized, demanded $15/hour, and many car washes closed.
If you can't make a profit anymore, because the cost of labor is too high for you to make a profit.... then you close. Yes you close.
The business owner lays everyone off, shuts down operations, sells all the equipment that has value, sells the property if they own it, and then they go do something else with their money.

Back in 2008, there was restaurant owner, the minimum wage went up, he closed the restaurant, laid off the workers, sold the equipment and the property... and then he bought a bunch of oil leases, rented a drilling rig, and struck oil on 7 of 12 leases. This was in the papers.

If the minimum wage makes it so you can't make a profit, because the minimum price for labor, is higher than the value of that labor, you lay off everyone and do something else with your money.

No amount of "business instincts" is going to fix that. There is no magic business instinct that is going to allow you pay a middle class income, for burger flippers, and just magically make a profit. That will never happen.

If you think it can, by all means you prove it. Start your own burger joint, and pay your burger flippers a middle class wage. Show us how it's done. You supposedly have the magical business instincts. Back up your words with actions.

When you start a burger joint that pays all their burger flippers $50,000 or whatever your made up living wage is, when you show us how it is done, the rest of the industry will follow. Back up your empty talk with actions.

Of course you won't, because you'll go broke and lose everything you invested into your burger joint.