melting Robert E. Satute in Charlottesville

[pknopp]

He knew it was wrong. Of course he did.

What could he do about it?

You tell me what would have been appropriate for Jefferson to do. Again, there is no real underground railroad in the 1790s. There is no large abolition movement. Certainly not in Virginia.

There was no place for black people in 1790s American society outside of slavery.

Where would they go? What would they do? How would they live?

How many times do I have to do this? Give me an exact number.

He could have released them like Washington did.

 

[toobfreak]

melting Robert E. Satute in Charlottesville​

Under what statute did Lee's statue get approved for melting?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

How many times do I have to do this? Give me an exact number.

He could have released them like Washington did.

And how did Washington do it? Did you read the article I posted?

Freeing them, he wrote, would “be attended by such insuperable difficulties by their intermixture with the dower Negroes, as to excite the most painful sensations…to manumit them.” Translation: It would be too complicated to free the enslaved people, so instead they would be owned by Martha as long as she wished.

 

[pknopp]

And how did Washington do it? Did you read the article I posted?

Freeing them, he wrote, would “be attended by such insuperable difficulties by their intermixture with the dower Negroes, as to excite the most painful sensations…to manumit them.” Translation: It would be too complicated to free the enslaved people, so instead they would be owned by Martha as long as she wished.

His will stated until she died. She released them before that.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

His will stated until she died. She released them before that.

Because it was too expensive to keep them. What happened to them after she released them?

What would prevent a slaveholder in Virginia from releasing dowered slaves?

 

[pknopp]

Because it was too expensive to keep them. What happened to them after she released them?

What would prevent a slaveholder in Virginia from releasing dowered slaves?

All you are doing is avoiding the point. Jefferson knew it was wrong but did it anyway.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

All you are doing is avoiding the point. Jefferson knew it was wrong but did it anyway.

It was against the law to free dowered slaves in Virginia.

YOU are avoiding the point.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Jefferson could not free his slaves because they were considered estate property subject to creditors' claims.

 

[pknopp]

It was against the law to free dowered slaves in Virginia.

YOU are avoiding the point.

Nope.

An act to authorize the manumission of slaves (1782) – Encyclopedia Virginia

It's funny you say this even after knowing that Washington's slaves were freed.

 

[pknopp]

Jefferson could not free his slaves because they were considered estate property subject to creditors' claims.

I can't read your link other than this.


As Henry Wiencek's "Master of the Mountain" makes plain, the failure was a moral failing, not the fault of the law at the time.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I can't read your link other than this.


As Henry Wiencek's "Master of the Mountain" makes plain, the failure was a moral failing, not the fault of the law at the time.

I will try to find another link. The point is that there were several issues preventing Jefferson from freeing his slaves. He had a lot of debt, which those slaves would have been subject to attachment to satisfy that debt. So, he couldn't legally release them. They were property subject to creditor collection. He couldn't release dower slaves by law either. Finally, and most importantly, what would happen to them if they were freed, assuming he could have done so legally?

Regardless of all that, what was so universally evil about a man who did nothing more than what society at the time deemed appropriate? Does that disqualify and discredit everything he did?

Marxists under notions of Critical Theory would say yes, and therefore the U.S. as founded must be erased and replaced.

Is that what you are arguing?

 

[pknopp]

I will try to find another link. The point is that there were several issues preventing Jefferson from freeing his slaves. He had a lot of debt, which those slaves would have been subject to attachment to satisfy that debt. So, he couldn't legally release them. They were property subject to creditor collection. He couldn't release dower slaves by law either. Finally, and most importantly, what would happen to them if they were freed, assuming he could have done so legally?

Regardless of all that, what was so universally evil about a man who did nothing more than what society at the time deemed appropriate? Does that disqualify and discredit everything he did?

Marxists under notions of Critical Theory would say yes, and therefore the U.S. as founded must be erased and replaced.

Is that what you are arguing?

He knew it was wrong. He should have never owned the first one.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

He knew it was wrong. He should have never owned the first one.

I am asking you the most important question. Please do not ignore it.

Are you taking the Critical Theory approach to completely discrediting everything Jefferson did, based solely on the fact that his conscience instructed him after the deed was done? Are you now saying that anything created by or with the help of Jefferson must be undone?

 

[pknopp]

I am asking you the most important question. Please do not ignore it.

Are you taking the Critical Theory approach to completely discrediting everything Jefferson did, based solely on the fact that his conscience instructed him after the deed was done? Are you now saying that anything created by or with the help of Jefferson must be undone?

I am clear at what I am saying. I'm not here to discuss American History.

 

[Curried Goats]

I am asking you the most important question. Please do not ignore it.

Are you taking the Critical Theory approach to completely discrediting everything Jefferson did, based solely on the fact that his conscience instructed him after the deed was done? Are you now saying that anything created by or with the help of Jefferson must be undone?

Kinda seems what you're trying to imply when you mention the Frankfurt School as an example of liberals trying to destroy America.

Jefferson being a slaver and rapist doesn't invalidate the ideas of liberty and freedom, but they do invalidate any pretenses that Jefferson was some great champion of either.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I am clear at what I am saying. I'm not here to discuss American History.

I disagree that you are clear. There's a strong leftist movement to undo the Constitution and start over. Are you part of that movement?

 

[Colin norris]

https://www.audacy.com/kywnewsradio/news/national/charlottesvilles-lee-statue-to-be-melted-down-for-new-art?fbclid=IwAR0ggnemXCRCKpjkNItyF1Jtkrz6fSb9HQSulfvczoVy5NcbwG4uGztQI9E

Black hate keeps going.

Cruel slave belting mongrel and should have been melted when he was alive.

 

[Curried Goats]

I disagree that you are clear. There's a strong leftist movement to undo the Constitution and start over. Are you part of that movement?

No there isn't chicken little. Lol.

 

[pknopp]

I disagree that you are clear. There's a strong leftist movement to undo the Constitution and start over. Are you part of that movement?

I'm one of the few that defends the entire Constitution.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Kinda seems what you're trying to imply when you mention the Frankfurt School as an example of liberals trying to destroy America.

Jefferson being a slaver and rapist doesn't invalidate the ideas of liberty and freedom, but they do invalidate any pretenses that Jefferson was some great champion of either.

I do not necessarily disagree with you.

The real issue is whether we should undo anything touched by Jefferson. There are many who want to do so. Charlottesville is about Jefferson, not Lee. That's my concern.