Men in women's bathrooms

[ChrisL]

I am drawing a line in the sand on what I will believe.

 

[Skylar]

You're on crack if you think we are going to start locking up transexuals. Whats wrong with you people?

What qualifies you to think that your proposed treatment is the end all be all solution? That it should "fix" them and if it doesn't then they are insane and should be locked up? Do you hear yourself?

Read my last post. I said the most intractable. 99% of "transgenders" could be led to lead normal lives embracing the sex they actually are. Read before you speak.

Yeah, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You don't even know what a transsexual woman is. You have no knowledge of psychology, no training, no relevant experience. Why would we lock *anyone* up based on your half assed personal opinion backed by nothing but your more of your opinion?

We're not locking anyone up based on your assessment of a topic you know nothing about.

 

[Silhouette]

Please define exactly what a "transexual woman" is. Enlighten all of us oh Uber Troll..

 

[ChrisL]

You're on crack if you think we are going to start locking up transexuals. Whats wrong with you people?

What qualifies you to think that your proposed treatment is the end all be all solution? That it should "fix" them and if it doesn't then they are insane and should be locked up? Do you hear yourself?

Read my last post. I said the most intractable. 99% of "transgenders" could be led to lead normal lives embracing the sex they actually are. Read before you speak.

Yeah, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You don't even know what a transsexual woman is. You have no knowledge of psychology, no training, no relevant experience. Why would we lock *anyone* up based on your half assed personal opinion backed by nothing but your more of your opinion?

We're not locking anyone up based on your assessment of a topic you know nothing about.

If a person is homicidal or suicidal, that is the usual course. They are placed on a 5150 and committed (usually for 48-72) to an involuntary hold, until they can be stabilized with therapy and/or medications. The problem is our psychiatric institution is now a "revolving door" where they cannot and insurance companies will not pay for people to be institutionalized who may need to be institutionalized. They are falling for a bunch of PC nonsense for which there is absolutely NO evidence as well.

 

[Slade3200]

Both your scenarios are very realistic cause and effects... We are influenced by our environment and children are much more susceptible to influence that adults. Many situations like these can be helped through therapy, time, and a change of environment. Can you accept that there may be other cases where environment is not the underlying factor?? That there is a natural element involved that is the cause for a person to be gay or have an identity disorder? Perhaps these situations can't be fixed through medication or therapy?

No. I cannot accept that. I can't see any other valid reason why a person would focus so much on their genitals and gender in order to find happiness in life, especially when at the same time, liberals try to tell us that gender is "fluid" and gender isn't matter, and that we are all equal and the "same."

Forget about the stupid partisan stereotypes... Do you feel the same way about homosexuals? Its all environmental and there is no natural element... It's something that can be "fixed" with proper therapy?

Homosexuals do not think they are the opposite sex.

Homosexuals fought for years and years through accusations that they were perverts, sinners, mentally ill and their lifestyle was a disease... There are many similarities between the fight they have gone through and what is starting with the Trans movement. If you ask many people that are gay or Trans they would say that they wish they felt differently and could be "normal" either situation is something that I wouldn't wish on anybody... but it is a reality and it makes me sick how many American demonize these groups and try to make them feel like less than human, instead of supporting education, treatment and support.

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

 

[Skylar]

Please define exactly what a "transexual woman" is. Enlighten all of us oh Uber Troll..

Look it up. You refuse to look into what a transgender woman actually is. And if you have no idea what a transgender woman is, then what value would your legal predictions about transgender women have?

 

[ChrisL]

No. I cannot accept that. I can't see any other valid reason why a person would focus so much on their genitals and gender in order to find happiness in life, especially when at the same time, liberals try to tell us that gender is "fluid" and gender isn't matter, and that we are all equal and the "same."

Forget about the stupid partisan stereotypes... Do you feel the same way about homosexuals? Its all environmental and there is no natural element... It's something that can be "fixed" with proper therapy?

Homosexuals do not think they are the opposite sex.

Homosexuals fought for years and years through accusations that they were perverts, sinners, mentally ill and their lifestyle was a disease... There are many similarities between the fight they have gone through and what is starting with the Trans movement. If you ask many people that are gay or Trans they would say that they wish they felt differently and could be "normal" either situation is something that I wouldn't wish on anybody... but it is a reality and it makes me sick how many American demonize these groups and try to make them feel like less than human, instead of supporting education, treatment and support.

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

 

[Skylar]

You're on crack if you think we are going to start locking up transexuals. Whats wrong with you people?

What qualifies you to think that your proposed treatment is the end all be all solution? That it should "fix" them and if it doesn't then they are insane and should be locked up? Do you hear yourself?

Read my last post. I said the most intractable. 99% of "transgenders" could be led to lead normal lives embracing the sex they actually are. Read before you speak.

Yeah, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You don't even know what a transsexual woman is. You have no knowledge of psychology, no training, no relevant experience. Why would we lock *anyone* up based on your half assed personal opinion backed by nothing but your more of your opinion?

We're not locking anyone up based on your assessment of a topic you know nothing about.

If a person is homicidal or suicidal, that is the usual course. They are placed on a 5150 and committed (usually for 48-72) to an involuntary hold, until they can be stabilized with therapy and/or medications.

That's an assessment made by a medical professional. Not Sil. And on the basis of being homocidal or suicidal. Not being transgender.

And of course the suicide rates of transgenders drop by about 1000% when they transition. By the vary standards you've cited......transitioning would be the best solution for most transgender folks.

 

[Skylar]

Forget about the stupid partisan stereotypes... Do you feel the same way about homosexuals? Its all environmental and there is no natural element... It's something that can be "fixed" with proper therapy?

Homosexuals do not think they are the opposite sex.

Homosexuals fought for years and years through accusations that they were perverts, sinners, mentally ill and their lifestyle was a disease... There are many similarities between the fight they have gone through and what is starting with the Trans movement. If you ask many people that are gay or Trans they would say that they wish they felt differently and could be "normal" either situation is something that I wouldn't wish on anybody... but it is a reality and it makes me sick how many American demonize these groups and try to make them feel like less than human, instead of supporting education, treatment and support.

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

I get that you feel that way. Tens of thousands of medical professionals and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders contradict you.

I'll go with the professionals and the DSM over your feelings on the matter.

 

[ChrisL]

You're on crack if you think we are going to start locking up transexuals. Whats wrong with you people?

What qualifies you to think that your proposed treatment is the end all be all solution? That it should "fix" them and if it doesn't then they are insane and should be locked up? Do you hear yourself?

Read my last post. I said the most intractable. 99% of "transgenders" could be led to lead normal lives embracing the sex they actually are. Read before you speak.

Yeah, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You don't even know what a transsexual woman is. You have no knowledge of psychology, no training, no relevant experience. Why would we lock *anyone* up based on your half assed personal opinion backed by nothing but your more of your opinion?

We're not locking anyone up based on your assessment of a topic you know nothing about.

If a person is homicidal or suicidal, that is the usual course. They are placed on a 5150 and committed (usually for 48-72) to an involuntary hold, until they can be stabilized with therapy and/or medications.

That's an assessment made by a medical professional. Not Sil. And on the basis of being homocidal or suicidal. Not being transgender. S

And of course the suicide rates of transgenders drop by about 1000% when they transition. By the vary standards you've cited......transitioning would be the best solution for most transgender folks.

No they don't. They remain the same postoperative as they were preoperative. Look it up.

 

[ChrisL]

Homosexuals do not think they are the opposite sex.

Homosexuals fought for years and years through accusations that they were perverts, sinners, mentally ill and their lifestyle was a disease... There are many similarities between the fight they have gone through and what is starting with the Trans movement. If you ask many people that are gay or Trans they would say that they wish they felt differently and could be "normal" either situation is something that I wouldn't wish on anybody... but it is a reality and it makes me sick how many American demonize these groups and try to make them feel like less than human, instead of supporting education, treatment and support.

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

I get that you feel that way. Tens of thousands of medical professionals and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders contradict you.

I'll go with the professionals and the DSM over your feelings on the matter.

It was on the DSM before the liberals made a stink over it because they didn't think "transgenders" should face the stigmata of "mental illness" diagnosis. There is absolutely no evidence that they are men stuck in women's bodies or women stuck in men's bodies. They are suffering from a disorder known as "body dysmorphic disorder" obviously.

 

[ChrisL]

Homosexuals do not think they are the opposite sex.

Homosexuals fought for years and years through accusations that they were perverts, sinners, mentally ill and their lifestyle was a disease... There are many similarities between the fight they have gone through and what is starting with the Trans movement. If you ask many people that are gay or Trans they would say that they wish they felt differently and could be "normal" either situation is something that I wouldn't wish on anybody... but it is a reality and it makes me sick how many American demonize these groups and try to make them feel like less than human, instead of supporting education, treatment and support.

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

I get that you feel that way. Tens of thousands of medical professionals and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders contradict you.

I'll go with the professionals and the DSM over your feelings on the matter.

It's very much similar to the anorexic who insists she is "fat" when there is absolutely no evidence of this being the case, and all evidence points in the opposite direction.

 

[Skylar]

You're on crack if you think we are going to start locking up transexuals. Whats wrong with you people?

What qualifies you to think that your proposed treatment is the end all be all solution? That it should "fix" them and if it doesn't then they are insane and should be locked up? Do you hear yourself?

Read my last post. I said the most intractable. 99% of "transgenders" could be led to lead normal lives embracing the sex they actually are. Read before you speak.

Yeah, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You don't even know what a transsexual woman is. You have no knowledge of psychology, no training, no relevant experience. Why would we lock *anyone* up based on your half assed personal opinion backed by nothing but your more of your opinion?

We're not locking anyone up based on your assessment of a topic you know nothing about.

If a person is homicidal or suicidal, that is the usual course. They are placed on a 5150 and committed (usually for 48-72) to an involuntary hold, until they can be stabilized with therapy and/or medications.

That's an assessment made by a medical professional. Not Sil. And on the basis of being homocidal or suicidal. Not being transgender. S

And of course the suicide rates of transgenders drop by about 1000% when they transition. By the vary standards you've cited......transitioning would be the best solution for most transgender folks.

No they don't. They remain the same postoperative as they were preoperative. Look it up.

No, they don't. Their suicide rates drop *dramatically* after. Especially since about 1990 where post op mental health care and societal acceptance have dramatically improved.

 

[Skylar]

Homosexuals fought for years and years through accusations that they were perverts, sinners, mentally ill and their lifestyle was a disease... There are many similarities between the fight they have gone through and what is starting with the Trans movement. If you ask many people that are gay or Trans they would say that they wish they felt differently and could be "normal" either situation is something that I wouldn't wish on anybody... but it is a reality and it makes me sick how many American demonize these groups and try to make them feel like less than human, instead of supporting education, treatment and support.

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

I get that you feel that way. Tens of thousands of medical professionals and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders contradict you.

I'll go with the professionals and the DSM over your feelings on the matter.

It was on the DSM before the liberals made a stink over it because they didn't think "transgenders" should face the stigmata of "mental illness" diagnosis. There is absolutely no evidence that they are men stuck in women's bodies or women stuck in men's bodies.

What is the basis of your assessment regarding gender? Again you're offering yoru personal opinion on the matter......vs the DSM and tens of thousands of mental health professionals that contradict you.

Why would I care about your opinion and ignore the single most respected diagnostic manual for mental health in this country, 36,000 mental health professionals and the entire APA?

 

[Skylar]

Homosexuals fought for years and years through accusations that they were perverts, sinners, mentally ill and their lifestyle was a disease... There are many similarities between the fight they have gone through and what is starting with the Trans movement. If you ask many people that are gay or Trans they would say that they wish they felt differently and could be "normal" either situation is something that I wouldn't wish on anybody... but it is a reality and it makes me sick how many American demonize these groups and try to make them feel like less than human, instead of supporting education, treatment and support.

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

I get that you feel that way. Tens of thousands of medical professionals and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders contradict you.

I'll go with the professionals and the DSM over your feelings on the matter.

It's very much similar to the anorexic who insists she is "fat" when there is absolutely no evidence of this being the case, and all evidence points in the opposite direction.

Says who? You're running into the same rhetorical brick wall again and again; you're offering my opinion as fact, backed by nothing. While ignoring tens of thousands of mental health care professionals and the most universally respected diagnostic manual on mental health in the country.

Our sources are not equal.

 

[ChrisL]

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

I get that you feel that way. Tens of thousands of medical professionals and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders contradict you.

I'll go with the professionals and the DSM over your feelings on the matter.

It was on the DSM before the liberals made a stink over it because they didn't think "transgenders" should face the stigmata of "mental illness" diagnosis. There is absolutely no evidence that they are men stuck in women's bodies or women stuck in men's bodies.

What is the basis of your assessment regarding gender? Again you're offering yoru personal opinion on the matter......vs the DSM and tens of thousands of mental health professionals that contradict you.

Why would I care about your opinion and ignore the single most respected diagnostic manual for mental health in this country, 36,000 mental health professionals and the entire APA?

Mental health profession has been "forced" into what they are doing today. In fact, a lot of times they don't even get to treat a transgendered person. They HAVE to refer them out to a "gender specialist." Lol. There's a LOT of money to made in surgical treatments, you know?

 

[ChrisL]

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

I get that you feel that way. Tens of thousands of medical professionals and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders contradict you.

I'll go with the professionals and the DSM over your feelings on the matter.

It's very much similar to the anorexic who insists she is "fat" when there is absolutely no evidence of this being the case, and all evidence points in the opposite direction.

Says who? You're running into the same rhetorical brick wall again and again; you're offering my opinion as fact, backed by nothing. While ignoring tens of thousands of mental health care professionals and the most universally respected diagnostic manual on mental health in the country.

Our sources are not equal.

There is no evidence that you are the opposite gender of that which you were born. None.

 

[ChrisL]

It's not the same at all. Being a homosexual is admission that you enjoy the same sex, you are attracted to your same sex. They are not claiming to be something that they are not. BTW, I am PRO gay marriage and equal rights for gays. I am NOT, however, buying into this transgender agenda. It is absolute insanity.

I was very weirded out by it as well and I still am... I just can't relate. You will see many of the arguments made against gays are now being made about transgenders. It took decades for people to accept gays to the point where many do today... There are still many that are very much against it...

Well, I totally disagree with you equating gay people to transgendered people. There are big differences there, IMO. Homosexuals do not think they are something they are not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

To me, transgenderism is very similar to anorexia or any other type of body dysmorphic disorder, and giving them potentially dangerous hormones and surgeries are akin to performing a Lap band procedure on an anorexic.

I get that you feel that way. Tens of thousands of medical professionals and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders contradict you.

I'll go with the professionals and the DSM over your feelings on the matter.

It's very much similar to the anorexic who insists she is "fat" when there is absolutely no evidence of this being the case, and all evidence points in the opposite direction.

Says who? You're running into the same rhetorical brick wall again and again; you're offering my opinion as fact, backed by nothing. While ignoring tens of thousands of mental health care professionals and the most universally respected diagnostic manual on mental health in the country.

Our sources are not equal.

There are actually SOME psychiatrists who have the gall to stand up to the "bullying" (where they risk ruining their reputations and careers as being labeled "bigots" by the PC crowd), and have actually stated that they do in fact believe that transgenderism is a mental illness.

And some very REPUTABLE ones in fact.

 

[Flopper]

3 bathrooms

men

women

and

transgenders


what is so hard to understand about that? it's easy

That's still discrimination. Obama's directive to the schools does not allow that. Transsexuals seek to use the restroom that matches their gender, not the sex designation on their birth certificate.

If true, then there would be no complaints since gender is sex.

His directive orders school to allow transsexuals to use the restroom that matches their gender identity, not gender. Not that lefties know the difference, and even if they do, they ignore it.

By definition - gender is the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Let's not let biology count though.

If a trans male had to go through life as a true woman must, there would be none.

You're not wrong. I have yet to ever hear a transgender male identify anything about his "feeling like a woman" that has a damned thing to do with what being a woman really is.

And I have to wonder, if gender is some fluid social construct that's all in people's heads anyway, how is it possible to "feel like a woman"? Basically, the entire transgender argument is that they feel like something their argument, by definition, says doesn't really exist.

Either there is a set, objective divide between male and female, in which case, they're on the male side, or there's no real difference except in what society has made up and forced on us, in which case, there's nothing for them to "feel like" at all.

Gender is certainly not as you say some fluid social construct. If that were all it was then we would not be seeing a gender mismatch with sex beginning as early as age 2.

 

[ChrisL]

That's still discrimination. Obama's directive to the schools does not allow that. Transsexuals seek to use the restroom that matches their gender, not the sex designation on their birth certificate.

If true, then there would be no complaints since gender is sex.

His directive orders school to allow transsexuals to use the restroom that matches their gender identity, not gender. Not that lefties know the difference, and even if they do, they ignore it.

By definition - gender is the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Let's not let biology count though.

If a trans male had to go through life as a true woman must, there would be none.

You're not wrong. I have yet to ever hear a transgender male identify anything about his "feeling like a woman" that has a damned thing to do with what being a woman really is.

And I have to wonder, if gender is some fluid social construct that's all in people's heads anyway, how is it possible to "feel like a woman"? Basically, the entire transgender argument is that they feel like something their argument, by definition, says doesn't really exist.

Either there is a set, objective divide between male and female, in which case, they're on the male side, or there's no real difference except in what society has made up and forced on us, in which case, there's nothing for them to "feel like" at all.

Gender is certainly not as you say some fluid social construct. If that were all it was then we would not be seeing a gender mismatch with sex beginning as early as age 2.

Normal and healthy 2-year-olds don't think about such things. Come on! Lol.