Mesa AZ PIG COP MURDER: Daniel Shaver seen crawling, begging in disturbing video as MURDERED!

[sakinago]

Not that it will do any good.

video of police reacting to a threat - Bing video

The video might have some bearing on this case if the guy was scared shitless, and his pants were falling off. The cop murdered the guy for no good reason. You don't have to admit it, but don't waste your time trying to justify the murder.

Why trust a clown? The idiot could not follow simple instructions.
Cops are not mind readers...

Being too scared to follow instructions exactly is now an offence deserving instant death?

He deserved what got...

You’ve shut down part of your humanity if you watch that video and deep down don’t think there is something wrong with that.

This is what the Milgram experiment has opened our eyes too, we are far too eager to go along with authority figures. 75% of us will shock somebody to death, begging us to stop, because a guy in lab coat tells us it’s safe and to continue.

Just because this guy is a cop, doesn’t mean I should be okay with him shooting a blubbering kid scared shitless on his hands and knees. The cop put himself in a bad situation, with a kid scared shitless, that’s on him, not the kid. There were about a dozen ways to handle this without using lethal force, while allowing the officer to protect himself at all times. This is manslaughter. We throw truck drivers in prison even when they didn’t do anything wrong by our standards, because they are professionals. We sue the pants off doctors when preform risky surgeries, and even when they did nothing wrong. But yet we give our own police a pass, when a soldier or marine would’ve gotten court marshaled had this been an enemy combatant. I’m sorry there is no excuse for this. 100% avoidable.

 

[sakinago]

Enough with the pig cop language, that will get you nowhere. I do not stand with BLM, but this is partially what they’re talking about.

This is NOT OK. I understand he reached back but there were 20 other ways to handle this without have to fire a shot. IF THE OFFICER WAS WORRIED ABOUT THIS KID BEING ARMED, THEN HE SHOULDVE HAD HIM TURN AROUND, LIFT UP HIS SHIRT, AND WALK BACKWARDS. I know the cop was technically in the right, but these rules have to change. These officers didn’t even take half the measures necessary to ensure there would be no shooting, AND THEY HAD TOTAL CONTROL OF THE SITUATION, which means there was zero excuse for this. If it was a more rapidly developing situation, with a lot of unknowns, maybe there’s an argument there (barley) Clearly this kid was scared shitless, and obviously not thinking straight, I don’t know who can in a situation like that. And these police expect someone’s mind not to frantically race in this type of situation, to not act like somebody scared to death...no, no excuse.

Police NEED to identify a weapon/legitimate threat before taking lethal measures. Non of this philando Castile “oh your reaching, I have to shoot you now,” BULLSHIT. This needs to stop. Seriously no excuse. If this was you or I, as a civilian, catching somebody who actually did intend harm, and we had control of the situation like this, and shot...we’d definitely be getting charged, no doubt about it. Cops cannot have lower standards than the citizens they a supposed to protect.

you people are talking like you are not human--you are perfect--YOU would do it differently
---you would do it the same...please don't try to say you wouldn't
you could handle every situation perfectly--just like they do in the movies

This wasn’t a touch and go situation, they had full control of the situation. If the cop was worried about a gun in the back of the waste band, he shouldn’t asked the suspect to lift his shirt, like cops are supposed to do in that situation. There is zero excuse for cops to have less strict rules of engagement than our own soldiers do in freaking war zones. This officer DID NOT EVALUATE THE SITUATION PROPERLY. What cops are being trained now a days, is that they have a unequal right to self defense than you are I. They are being trained to use lethal force at the slightest sign of potential danger, without fully evaluating what that danger could be to the best of their ability, with a one size fits all policy of shoot when someone reaches. I want all officers to get home safe, but there is no reason that they should have a lower standard of self defense than you or I. Again if this situation was developing more quickly, and they did not have control, like they did in this situation, that’s a different story. But that wasn’t the story.

It was a story much like this one
Albuquerque PD under fire for deadly police shootings

Or like this one


You can’t ask someone for the liscence and registration, and not expect someone to reach for it. Reaching is not a strong enough indicator of danger. Nope, sorry.

do you want me to link how many times people have pulled guns on cops--like during traffic stops, or if the cop is just talking, etc?

Go for it...you should’ve lead with that instead, you don’t need my permission. Can you actually conceive the amount of times we tell our soldiers return fire only, when there’s an attack very clearly being formed against them...we asked our soldiers to go out and do the impossible, and they did, even though it was borderline insane to do so. And you really think a “when in doubt shoot,”excuse is permissible for those who are charged to protect and serve, when they are not in a literal war zone, not in one of the most dangerous countries on earth, and when their job is statistically safer than that of a garbage man?

I’m not even saying police should return fire only. Hell no, I want them to come home safe. All I’m saying is they should not assume and act on assumptions of threat. Prepare for threat yes, put themselves in advantagous positions absolutely, but identify threat (like we as citizens HAVE TO DO) before they take lethal self defensive measures...And police have been through hell in this country. For a long time now. And our instinct is to give them a pass because “shit, I couldn’t do that, they’re hero’s.” We are taking away what actually makes them hero’s. “We find these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.” That’s no longer true, we have tipped the scales in their favor. Their life IS more important than yours. There is actually something called the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights out there. That’s right, look it up, they got their own positive rights that aren’t afforded to you or I. The deck is stacked in their favor in more ways than the lax standards of self defense we afford them. And this isn’t all the officers fault, he’s just working with the loose leash that we as society gave him. It is time to reign in that leash where it belongs.

Ohio police officer shot dead during domestic dispute call

We got one...

 

[harmonica]

if you don't obey commands from cops you ARE a threat--whether you have a weapon or not--just like Michael Brown
you can cry ''don't shoot'' etc, you are STILL a threat

 

[sakinago]

Enough with the pig cop language, that will get you nowhere. I do not stand with BLM, but this is partially what they’re talking about.

This is NOT OK. I understand he reached back but there were 20 other ways to handle this without have to fire a shot. IF THE OFFICER WAS WORRIED ABOUT THIS KID BEING ARMED, THEN HE SHOULDVE HAD HIM TURN AROUND, LIFT UP HIS SHIRT, AND WALK BACKWARDS. I know the cop was technically in the right, but these rules have to change. These officers didn’t even take half the measures necessary to ensure there would be no shooting, AND THEY HAD TOTAL CONTROL OF THE SITUATION, which means there was zero excuse for this. If it was a more rapidly developing situation, with a lot of unknowns, maybe there’s an argument there (barley) Clearly this kid was scared shitless, and obviously not thinking straight, I don’t know who can in a situation like that. And these police expect someone’s mind not to frantically race in this type of situation, to not act like somebody scared to death...no, no excuse.

Police NEED to identify a weapon/legitimate threat before taking lethal measures. Non of this philando Castile “oh your reaching, I have to shoot you now,” BULLSHIT. This needs to stop. Seriously no excuse. If this was you or I, as a civilian, catching somebody who actually did intend harm, and we had control of the situation like this, and shot...we’d definitely be getting charged, no doubt about it. Cops cannot have lower standards than the citizens they a supposed to protect.

you people are talking like you are not human--you are perfect--YOU would do it differently
---you would do it the same...please don't try to say you wouldn't
you could handle every situation perfectly--just like they do in the movies

This wasn’t a touch and go situation, they had full control of the situation. If the cop was worried about a gun in the back of the waste band, he shouldn’t asked the suspect to lift his shirt, like cops are supposed to do in that situation. There is zero excuse for cops to have less strict rules of engagement than our own soldiers do in freaking war zones. This officer DID NOT EVALUATE THE SITUATION PROPERLY. What cops are being trained now a days, is that they have a unequal right to self defense than you are I. They are being trained to use lethal force at the slightest sign of potential danger, without fully evaluating what that danger could be to the best of their ability, with a one size fits all policy of shoot when someone reaches. I want all officers to get home safe, but there is no reason that they should have a lower standard of self defense than you or I. Again if this situation was developing more quickly, and they did not have control, like they did in this situation, that’s a different story. But that wasn’t the story.

It was a story much like this one
Albuquerque PD under fire for deadly police shootings

Or like this one


You can’t ask someone for the liscence and registration, and not expect someone to reach for it. Reaching is not a strong enough indicator of danger. Nope, sorry.

do you want me to link how many times people have pulled guns on cops--like during traffic stops, or if the cop is just talking, etc?

Go for it...you should’ve lead with that instead, you don’t need my permission. Can you actually conceive the amount of times we tell our soldiers return fire only, when there’s an attack very clearly being formed against them...we asked our soldiers to go out and do the impossible, and they did, even though it was borderline insane to do so. And you really think a “when in doubt shoot,”excuse is permissible for those who are charged to protect and serve, when they are not in a literal war zone, not in one of the most dangerous countries on earth, and when their job is statistically safer than that of a garbage man?

I’m not even saying police should return fire only. Hell no, I want them to come home safe. All I’m saying is they should not assume and act on assumptions of threat. Prepare for threat yes, put themselves in advantagous positions absolutely, but identify threat (like we as citizens HAVE TO DO) before they take lethal self defensive measures...And police have been through hell in this country. For a long time now. And our instinct is to give them a pass because “shit, I couldn’t do that, they’re hero’s.” We are taking away what actually makes them hero’s. “We find these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.” That’s no longer true, we have tipped the scales in their favor. Their life IS more important than yours. There is actually something called the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights out there. That’s right, look it up, they got their own positive rights that aren’t afforded to you or I. The deck is stacked in their favor in more ways than the lax standards of self defense we afford them. And this isn’t all the officers fault, he’s just working with the loose leash that we as society gave him. It is time to reign in that leash where it belongs.

there it is again--YOU are perfect--inhuman--god...you would act the exact correct way--just like a movie
this is how humans are....this is how humans interact

Texas police officer slain during traffic stop; manhunt underway

Man charged with killing Missouri officer arrested
Arnold officer shot by man in custody; suspect dead
etc etc

Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/

We asked our soldiers MUCH MORE, IN A SITUATION 1000 times worse in a daily basis...yet you’re saying we can’t ask our police to meet halfway?

 

[harmonica]

Not that it will do any good.

video of police reacting to a threat - Bing video

The video might have some bearing on this case if the guy was scared shitless, and his pants were falling off. The cop murdered the guy for no good reason. You don't have to admit it, but don't waste your time trying to justify the murder.

Why trust a clown? The idiot could not follow simple instructions.
Cops are not mind readers...

Being too scared to follow instructions exactly is now an offence deserving instant death?

He deserved what got...

You’ve shut down part of your humanity if you watch that video and deep down don’t think there is something wrong with that.

This is what the Milgram experiment has opened our eyes too, we are far too eager to go along with authority figures. 75% of us will shock somebody to death, begging us to stop, because a guy in lab coat tells us it’s safe and to continue.

Just because this guy is a cop, doesn’t mean I should be okay with him shooting a blubbering kid scared shitless on his hands and knees. The cop put himself in a bad situation, with a kid scared shitless, that’s on him, not the kid. There were about a dozen ways to handle this without using lethal force, while allowing the officer to protect himself at all times. This is manslaughter. We throw truck drivers in prison even when they didn’t do anything wrong by our standards, because they are professionals. We sue the pants off doctors when preform risky surgeries, and even when they did nothing wrong. But yet we give our own police a pass, when a soldier or marine would’ve gotten court marshaled had this been an enemy combatant. I’m sorry there is no excuse for this. 100% avoidable.

he hasn't shut down his humanity--he is being realistic
this isn't a movie/tv show where Steve McGarrett shoots the suspect's shooting finger
cops are not psychologists/psychiatrists/doctors....it takes less than seconds for a thug to pull a pistol and shoot--yes or no?

 

[sakinago]

if you don't obey commands from cops you ARE a threat--whether you have a weapon or not--just like Michael Brown
you can cry ''don't shoot'' etc, you are STILL a threat

Micheal brown is NOT a comparable example. Hands up don’t shoot wasn’t even true. There was no body cam. And what we do know is that he punched the officer in the face in his cruiser (fracturing his eye socket), then there was a struggle for the officers gun in the cruiser, it went off, striking brown while his arm was in the cruiser, and mikes friend present at the time is on video minutes after saying “I thought the cop was missing because mike kept coming at him,”

We actually have video of what happened here. It is not OK.

 

[harmonica]

you people are talking like you are not human--you are perfect--YOU would do it differently
---you would do it the same...please don't try to say you wouldn't
you could handle every situation perfectly--just like they do in the movies

This wasn’t a touch and go situation, they had full control of the situation. If the cop was worried about a gun in the back of the waste band, he shouldn’t asked the suspect to lift his shirt, like cops are supposed to do in that situation. There is zero excuse for cops to have less strict rules of engagement than our own soldiers do in freaking war zones. This officer DID NOT EVALUATE THE SITUATION PROPERLY. What cops are being trained now a days, is that they have a unequal right to self defense than you are I. They are being trained to use lethal force at the slightest sign of potential danger, without fully evaluating what that danger could be to the best of their ability, with a one size fits all policy of shoot when someone reaches. I want all officers to get home safe, but there is no reason that they should have a lower standard of self defense than you or I. Again if this situation was developing more quickly, and they did not have control, like they did in this situation, that’s a different story. But that wasn’t the story.

It was a story much like this one
Albuquerque PD under fire for deadly police shootings

Or like this one


You can’t ask someone for the liscence and registration, and not expect someone to reach for it. Reaching is not a strong enough indicator of danger. Nope, sorry.

do you want me to link how many times people have pulled guns on cops--like during traffic stops, or if the cop is just talking, etc?

Go for it...you should’ve lead with that instead, you don’t need my permission. Can you actually conceive the amount of times we tell our soldiers return fire only, when there’s an attack very clearly being formed against them...we asked our soldiers to go out and do the impossible, and they did, even though it was borderline insane to do so. And you really think a “when in doubt shoot,”excuse is permissible for those who are charged to protect and serve, when they are not in a literal war zone, not in one of the most dangerous countries on earth, and when their job is statistically safer than that of a garbage man?

I’m not even saying police should return fire only. Hell no, I want them to come home safe. All I’m saying is they should not assume and act on assumptions of threat. Prepare for threat yes, put themselves in advantagous positions absolutely, but identify threat (like we as citizens HAVE TO DO) before they take lethal self defensive measures...And police have been through hell in this country. For a long time now. And our instinct is to give them a pass because “shit, I couldn’t do that, they’re hero’s.” We are taking away what actually makes them hero’s. “We find these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.” That’s no longer true, we have tipped the scales in their favor. Their life IS more important than yours. There is actually something called the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights out there. That’s right, look it up, they got their own positive rights that aren’t afforded to you or I. The deck is stacked in their favor in more ways than the lax standards of self defense we afford them. And this isn’t all the officers fault, he’s just working with the loose leash that we as society gave him. It is time to reign in that leash where it belongs.

there it is again--YOU are perfect--inhuman--god...you would act the exact correct way--just like a movie
this is how humans are....this is how humans interact

Texas police officer slain during traffic stop; manhunt underway

Man charged with killing Missouri officer arrested
Arnold officer shot by man in custody; suspect dead
etc etc

Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/

We asked our soldiers MUCH MORE, IN A SITUATION 1000 times worse in a daily basis...yet you’re saying we can’t ask our police to meet halfway?

again--police are doing their best NOT to shoot
there are 30 MILLION calls for police assistance per year [ not counting traffic stops ]---900 shooting deaths--most are justified
the numbers prove there is NOT a huge, chronic problem of police shooting for no reason

 

[harmonica]

if you don't obey commands from cops you ARE a threat--whether you have a weapon or not--just like Michael Brown
you can cry ''don't shoot'' etc, you are STILL a threat

Micheal brown is NOT a comparable example. Hands up don’t shoot wasn’t even true. There was no body cam. And what we do know is that he punched the officer in the face in his cruiser (fracturing his eye socket), then there was a struggle for the officers gun in the cruiser, it went off, striking brown while his arm was in the cruiser, and mikes friend present at the time is on video minutes after saying “I thought the cop was missing because mike kept coming at him,”

We actually have video of what happened here. It is not OK.

point being MBrown did not have a weapon--but he was still a threat

 

[sakinago]

The video might have some bearing on this case if the guy was scared shitless, and his pants were falling off. The cop murdered the guy for no good reason. You don't have to admit it, but don't waste your time trying to justify the murder.

Why trust a clown? The idiot could not follow simple instructions.
Cops are not mind readers...

Being too scared to follow instructions exactly is now an offence deserving instant death?

He deserved what got...

You’ve shut down part of your humanity if you watch that video and deep down don’t think there is something wrong with that.

This is what the Milgram experiment has opened our eyes too, we are far too eager to go along with authority figures. 75% of us will shock somebody to death, begging us to stop, because a guy in lab coat tells us it’s safe and to continue.

Just because this guy is a cop, doesn’t mean I should be okay with him shooting a blubbering kid scared shitless on his hands and knees. The cop put himself in a bad situation, with a kid scared shitless, that’s on him, not the kid. There were about a dozen ways to handle this without using lethal force, while allowing the officer to protect himself at all times. This is manslaughter. We throw truck drivers in prison even when they didn’t do anything wrong by our standards, because they are professionals. We sue the pants off doctors when preform risky surgeries, and even when they did nothing wrong. But yet we give our own police a pass, when a soldier or marine would’ve gotten court marshaled had this been an enemy combatant. I’m sorry there is no excuse for this. 100% avoidable.

he hasn't shut down his humanity--he is being realistic
this isn't a movie/tv show where Steve McGarrett shoots the suspect's shooting finger
cops are not psychologists/psychiatrists/doctors....it takes less than seconds for a thug to pull a pistol and shoot--yes or no?

Strawman McGee, that’s not what I’m saying, I’ve made that very clear. If our soldiers in an actual war zone, in one of the most dangerous countries on the planet, can excercise better judgment than these guys can...why the hell are we holding our law enforcement to lower standards than not only the our troops, but the average LAW ABIDING CITIZEN?

WHY IS IT “IMPOSSIBLE” TO NOT MEET HALFWAY BETWEEN WHAT WE ASKED OUR SOLDIERS TO DO IN A GODDAMN WARZONE, AND WHAT WE ALLOW OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO GET AWAY WITH CURRENTLY...WHY ARE WE OK WITH GIVING BETTER TREATMENT TO ENEMY COMBATANTS THAN OUR OWN CITIZENS?

 

[sakinago]

if you don't obey commands from cops you ARE a threat--whether you have a weapon or not--just like Michael Brown
you can cry ''don't shoot'' etc, you are STILL a threat

Micheal brown is NOT a comparable example. Hands up don’t shoot wasn’t even true. There was no body cam. And what we do know is that he punched the officer in the face in his cruiser (fracturing his eye socket), then there was a struggle for the officers gun in the cruiser, it went off, striking brown while his arm was in the cruiser, and mikes friend present at the time is on video minutes after saying “I thought the cop was missing because mike kept coming at him,”

We actually have video of what happened here. It is not OK.

point being MBrown did not have a weapon--but he was still a threat

And at what point did this bulbbering kid punch the officer in the face, struggle for his gun, and then runaway to turn around and charge the officer when he got out of his car. I don’t think there’s a better example of apples and oranges than this right here.

 

[sakinago]

This wasn’t a touch and go situation, they had full control of the situation. If the cop was worried about a gun in the back of the waste band, he shouldn’t asked the suspect to lift his shirt, like cops are supposed to do in that situation. There is zero excuse for cops to have less strict rules of engagement than our own soldiers do in freaking war zones. This officer DID NOT EVALUATE THE SITUATION PROPERLY. What cops are being trained now a days, is that they have a unequal right to self defense than you are I. They are being trained to use lethal force at the slightest sign of potential danger, without fully evaluating what that danger could be to the best of their ability, with a one size fits all policy of shoot when someone reaches. I want all officers to get home safe, but there is no reason that they should have a lower standard of self defense than you or I. Again if this situation was developing more quickly, and they did not have control, like they did in this situation, that’s a different story. But that wasn’t the story.

It was a story much like this one
Albuquerque PD under fire for deadly police shootings

Or like this one


You can’t ask someone for the liscence and registration, and not expect someone to reach for it. Reaching is not a strong enough indicator of danger. Nope, sorry.

do you want me to link how many times people have pulled guns on cops--like during traffic stops, or if the cop is just talking, etc?

Go for it...you should’ve lead with that instead, you don’t need my permission. Can you actually conceive the amount of times we tell our soldiers return fire only, when there’s an attack very clearly being formed against them...we asked our soldiers to go out and do the impossible, and they did, even though it was borderline insane to do so. And you really think a “when in doubt shoot,”excuse is permissible for those who are charged to protect and serve, when they are not in a literal war zone, not in one of the most dangerous countries on earth, and when their job is statistically safer than that of a garbage man?

I’m not even saying police should return fire only. Hell no, I want them to come home safe. All I’m saying is they should not assume and act on assumptions of threat. Prepare for threat yes, put themselves in advantagous positions absolutely, but identify threat (like we as citizens HAVE TO DO) before they take lethal self defensive measures...And police have been through hell in this country. For a long time now. And our instinct is to give them a pass because “shit, I couldn’t do that, they’re hero’s.” We are taking away what actually makes them hero’s. “We find these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.” That’s no longer true, we have tipped the scales in their favor. Their life IS more important than yours. There is actually something called the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights out there. That’s right, look it up, they got their own positive rights that aren’t afforded to you or I. The deck is stacked in their favor in more ways than the lax standards of self defense we afford them. And this isn’t all the officers fault, he’s just working with the loose leash that we as society gave him. It is time to reign in that leash where it belongs.

there it is again--YOU are perfect--inhuman--god...you would act the exact correct way--just like a movie
this is how humans are....this is how humans interact

Texas police officer slain during traffic stop; manhunt underway

Man charged with killing Missouri officer arrested
Arnold officer shot by man in custody; suspect dead
etc etc

Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/

We asked our soldiers MUCH MORE, IN A SITUATION 1000 times worse in a daily basis...yet you’re saying we can’t ask our police to meet halfway?

again--police are doing their best NOT to shoot
there are 30 MILLION calls for police assistance per year [ not counting traffic stops ]---900 shooting deaths--most are justified
the numbers prove there is NOT a huge, chronic problem of police shooting for no reason

Well then I guess we should be thankin masta’ for letting us breath another day. Yea “police don’t shoot all the time,” does NOT excuse this.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

you people are talking like you are not human--you are perfect--YOU would do it differently
---you would do it the same...please don't try to say you wouldn't
you could handle every situation perfectly--just like they do in the movies

This wasn’t a touch and go situation, they had full control of the situation. If the cop was worried about a gun in the back of the waste band, he shouldn’t asked the suspect to lift his shirt, like cops are supposed to do in that situation. There is zero excuse for cops to have less strict rules of engagement than our own soldiers do in freaking war zones. This officer DID NOT EVALUATE THE SITUATION PROPERLY. What cops are being trained now a days, is that they have a unequal right to self defense than you are I. They are being trained to use lethal force at the slightest sign of potential danger, without fully evaluating what that danger could be to the best of their ability, with a one size fits all policy of shoot when someone reaches. I want all officers to get home safe, but there is no reason that they should have a lower standard of self defense than you or I. Again if this situation was developing more quickly, and they did not have control, like they did in this situation, that’s a different story. But that wasn’t the story.

It was a story much like this one
Albuquerque PD under fire for deadly police shootings

Or like this one


You can’t ask someone for the liscence and registration, and not expect someone to reach for it. Reaching is not a strong enough indicator of danger. Nope, sorry.

do you want me to link how many times people have pulled guns on cops--like during traffic stops, or if the cop is just talking, etc?

Go for it...you should’ve lead with that instead, you don’t need my permission. Can you actually conceive the amount of times we tell our soldiers return fire only, when there’s an attack very clearly being formed against them...we asked our soldiers to go out and do the impossible, and they did, even though it was borderline insane to do so. And you really think a “when in doubt shoot,”excuse is permissible for those who are charged to protect and serve, when they are not in a literal war zone, not in one of the most dangerous countries on earth, and when their job is statistically safer than that of a garbage man?

I’m not even saying police should return fire only. Hell no, I want them to come home safe. All I’m saying is they should not assume and act on assumptions of threat. Prepare for threat yes, put themselves in advantagous positions absolutely, but identify threat (like we as citizens HAVE TO DO) before they take lethal self defensive measures...And police have been through hell in this country. For a long time now. And our instinct is to give them a pass because “shit, I couldn’t do that, they’re hero’s.” We are taking away what actually makes them hero’s. “We find these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.” That’s no longer true, we have tipped the scales in their favor. Their life IS more important than yours. There is actually something called the Law Enforcement Bill of Rights out there. That’s right, look it up, they got their own positive rights that aren’t afforded to you or I. The deck is stacked in their favor in more ways than the lax standards of self defense we afford them. And this isn’t all the officers fault, he’s just working with the loose leash that we as society gave him. It is time to reign in that leash where it belongs.

Ohio police officer shot dead during domestic dispute call

We got one...

This is why I believe the cops before a thug caught being a thug.

 

[BULLDOG]

Not that it will do any good.

video of police reacting to a threat - Bing video

The video might have some bearing on this case if the guy was scared shitless, and his pants were falling off. The cop murdered the guy for no good reason. You don't have to admit it, but don't waste your time trying to justify the murder.

Why trust a clown? The idiot could not follow simple instructions.
Cops are not mind readers...

Being too scared to follow instructions exactly is now an offence deserving instant death?

He deserved what got...

You’ve shut down part of your humanity if you watch that video and deep down don’t think there is something wrong with that.

This is what the Milgram experiment has opened our eyes too, we are far too eager to go along with authority figures. 75% of us will shock somebody to death, begging us to stop, because a guy in lab coat tells us it’s safe and to continue.

Just because this guy is a cop, doesn’t mean I should be okay with him shooting a blubbering kid scared shitless on his hands and knees. The cop put himself in a bad situation, with a kid scared shitless, that’s on him, not the kid. There were about a dozen ways to handle this without using lethal force, while allowing the officer to protect himself at all times. This is manslaughter. We throw truck drivers in prison even when they didn’t do anything wrong by our standards, because they are professionals. We sue the pants off doctors when preform risky surgeries, and even when they did nothing wrong. But yet we give our own police a pass, when a soldier or marine would’ve gotten court marshaled had this been an enemy combatant. I’m sorry there is no excuse for this. 100% avoidable.

You might want to mark this on the calendar because it probably won;t happen too often, but I agree with you.,

 

[sakinago]

The video might have some bearing on this case if the guy was scared shitless, and his pants were falling off. The cop murdered the guy for no good reason. You don't have to admit it, but don't waste your time trying to justify the murder.

Why trust a clown? The idiot could not follow simple instructions.
Cops are not mind readers...

Being too scared to follow instructions exactly is now an offence deserving instant death?

He deserved what got...

You’ve shut down part of your humanity if you watch that video and deep down don’t think there is something wrong with that.

This is what the Milgram experiment has opened our eyes too, we are far too eager to go along with authority figures. 75% of us will shock somebody to death, begging us to stop, because a guy in lab coat tells us it’s safe and to continue.

Just because this guy is a cop, doesn’t mean I should be okay with him shooting a blubbering kid scared shitless on his hands and knees. The cop put himself in a bad situation, with a kid scared shitless, that’s on him, not the kid. There were about a dozen ways to handle this without using lethal force, while allowing the officer to protect himself at all times. This is manslaughter. We throw truck drivers in prison even when they didn’t do anything wrong by our standards, because they are professionals. We sue the pants off doctors when preform risky surgeries, and even when they did nothing wrong. But yet we give our own police a pass, when a soldier or marine would’ve gotten court marshaled had this been an enemy combatant. I’m sorry there is no excuse for this. 100% avoidable.

You might want to mark this on the calendar because it probably won;t happen too often, but I agree with you.,

Don’t be afraid of middle ground

 

[BULLDOG]

Why trust a clown? The idiot could not follow simple instructions.
Cops are not mind readers...

Being too scared to follow instructions exactly is now an offence deserving instant death?

He deserved what got...

You’ve shut down part of your humanity if you watch that video and deep down don’t think there is something wrong with that.

This is what the Milgram experiment has opened our eyes too, we are far too eager to go along with authority figures. 75% of us will shock somebody to death, begging us to stop, because a guy in lab coat tells us it’s safe and to continue.

Just because this guy is a cop, doesn’t mean I should be okay with him shooting a blubbering kid scared shitless on his hands and knees. The cop put himself in a bad situation, with a kid scared shitless, that’s on him, not the kid. There were about a dozen ways to handle this without using lethal force, while allowing the officer to protect himself at all times. This is manslaughter. We throw truck drivers in prison even when they didn’t do anything wrong by our standards, because they are professionals. We sue the pants off doctors when preform risky surgeries, and even when they did nothing wrong. But yet we give our own police a pass, when a soldier or marine would’ve gotten court marshaled had this been an enemy combatant. I’m sorry there is no excuse for this. 100% avoidable.

You might want to mark this on the calendar because it probably won;t happen too often, but I agree with you.,

Don’t be afraid of middle ground

Never have been before.

 

[JQPublic1]

Force Science News #178: Important new reaction-time study addresses what’s “reasonable” 
in armed-suspect encounters & more

CONCLUSIONS. “Police officers have a legal right to use force, including lethal force, when it is reasonable to do so,” the researchers state. “An officer may shoot when there is an imminent risk of harm to self or others, or to stop someone who poses a danger to others if allowed to escape….



“There is a perception amongst some community members that officers are too quick to shoot those who only appear to pose a threat…. There are people who seem to believe that the ‘reasonable’ officer should wait until a suspect with a gun begins to use the gun against the officer before the officer utilizes lethal force. [But] would waiting be reasonable in situations where the suspect has his weapon in hand but not aimed?”



That’s the critical question Blair’s study addresses. “As our findings show, most officers can’t fire faster than a suspect with a weapon in hand, even if it is not aimed at the officer,” his team writes. Consequently, “we think that an officer who decided to shoot [in the kinds of situations tested] meets the legal definition of reasonableness,” given the “close range of the encounter, the lack of available cover, the failure of the suspect to comply with multiple warnings, and the data” collected.



The researchers stress, however, that they “do not believe that the findings support” automatically shooting “everyone with a gun” or “everyone with a gun who does not comply.” Armed encounters vary in their details, and “the individual officer must consider the totality of circumstances” in choosing a fitting response, including whether issuing commands is feasible or desirable before firing.



The researchers believe that certain training implications are clear from their findings. First, they support having officers participate in scenarios similar to those they used to convey “a better understanding of the dynamics involved” in armed confrontations and to “help correct inaccurate beliefs about shooting ability.” Also they believe training should “teach officers how to mitigate the dangers posed by armed suspects” through such means as distance and cover.



They hope that their findings “will help officers, and those who judge the actions of officers, to make more informed decisions about the reasonableness of officers’ actions” in deadly encounters.



A full report on the study has been accepted for publication later this year in the peer-reviewed journal Police Quarterly. Publication can be tracked at: http://pqx.sagepub.com.

Absolutely unreasonable. Why? An armed citizen shooting someone like that would be murder.

Cops have a license to kill. They can kill anyone, anywhere, and get away with it.

Brailsford WANTED to kill someone that day.

That is totally not true, one was just sentenced to 20 years in jail, how long do you think he will last?

In situations where there is perception of danger, whether you see it in a video or not, the police have the right and obligation to protect themselves and waiting to see a gun may be way too late.

What happens when potential arrestees start to percieve all cops as threats and just start blasting when they arrive. The dissemination of this film could cause future suspects to think..."what have I got to lose.?" I might as well defend myself because following instructions to the best of my ability and making one little mistake could be fatal."

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Milgrim Shmilgrim. The boy acted stupidly and made the wrong moves with his hands. The cops can't assume he isn't hiding a gun on his body. I will concede he started crying at 3:58.

 

[JoeB131]

As damning as that video appears, I trust the jury system.

The same jury system that found Kate Steinle's murderer not guilty.

They see every piece of evidence. They hear testimony. Then they decide.

Oh, so now you think the Steinle verdict was fine?

Please, shooting an unarmed man while he is lying on the ground is unacceptable.

 

[Freewill]

Force Science News #178: Important new reaction-time study addresses what’s “reasonable” 
in armed-suspect encounters & more

CONCLUSIONS. “Police officers have a legal right to use force, including lethal force, when it is reasonable to do so,” the researchers state. “An officer may shoot when there is an imminent risk of harm to self or others, or to stop someone who poses a danger to others if allowed to escape….



“There is a perception amongst some community members that officers are too quick to shoot those who only appear to pose a threat…. There are people who seem to believe that the ‘reasonable’ officer should wait until a suspect with a gun begins to use the gun against the officer before the officer utilizes lethal force. [But] would waiting be reasonable in situations where the suspect has his weapon in hand but not aimed?”



That’s the critical question Blair’s study addresses. “As our findings show, most officers can’t fire faster than a suspect with a weapon in hand, even if it is not aimed at the officer,” his team writes. Consequently, “we think that an officer who decided to shoot [in the kinds of situations tested] meets the legal definition of reasonableness,” given the “close range of the encounter, the lack of available cover, the failure of the suspect to comply with multiple warnings, and the data” collected.



The researchers stress, however, that they “do not believe that the findings support” automatically shooting “everyone with a gun” or “everyone with a gun who does not comply.” Armed encounters vary in their details, and “the individual officer must consider the totality of circumstances” in choosing a fitting response, including whether issuing commands is feasible or desirable before firing.



The researchers believe that certain training implications are clear from their findings. First, they support having officers participate in scenarios similar to those they used to convey “a better understanding of the dynamics involved” in armed confrontations and to “help correct inaccurate beliefs about shooting ability.” Also they believe training should “teach officers how to mitigate the dangers posed by armed suspects” through such means as distance and cover.



They hope that their findings “will help officers, and those who judge the actions of officers, to make more informed decisions about the reasonableness of officers’ actions” in deadly encounters.



A full report on the study has been accepted for publication later this year in the peer-reviewed journal Police Quarterly. Publication can be tracked at: http://pqx.sagepub.com.

Absolutely unreasonable. Why? An armed citizen shooting someone like that would be murder.

Cops have a license to kill. They can kill anyone, anywhere, and get away with it.

Brailsford WANTED to kill someone that day.

That is totally not true, one was just sentenced to 20 years in jail, how long do you think he will last?

In situations where there is perception of danger, whether you see it in a video or not, the police have the right and obligation to protect themselves and waiting to see a gun may be way too late.

What happens when potential arrestees start to percieve all cops as threats and just start blasting when they arrive. The dissemination of this film could cause future suspects to think..."what have I got to lose.?" I might as well defend myself because following instructions to the best of my ability and making one little mistake could be fatal."

Or, they could think, comply and live.

 

[eflatminor]

If this was you or I as a civilian using a firearm for self defense, and had 100% control of the situation, and fired just because he reached...we’d be locked away.

Regarding this point above, I would say it depends on the situation. If the guy had just broken into my property, reasonable self defense dictates the homeowner could take him out without a word said. It wouldn't matter if he reached or not.

The police are civilians too, but they have a duty to respond to the idiot pointing the firearm out the window. You just can't make a sudden movement that looks like you could be in the process of producing a weapon while in front of a cop. They can't wait to see a gun before reacting because by then its too late. I'd feel the same way if you're an intruder in my home.

Tell your kids what my father told me. If a LEO stops you, be respectful, make no sudden movements, keep you hands in plain sight and if you need to retrieve something (like a license from a glove compartment), ask first if it's okay. Simple things any reasonable person can do and you'll be fine.