Methodist Church Considers HP Company Divestment

[montelatici]

Fenton Lum, Roudy, MJB12741, montelatici, et al,

Yes, trying to stay up with the propaganda (both the recommended and non-recommended) is quite a task in itself.

When we talk about the goals and objectives of the Palestinians (destiny kind of stuff), we have to remember that, unlike most governments, there is no truly unified political or diplomatic voice that speaks for the Palestinian People. --- Although that was suppose to have been settled some 4 decades ago when the Resolution adopted at the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference on 28 October 1974, recognising the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the “sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.”

In most conversations, we just assume that we are either talking about HAMAS or the PLO (Khalid Mishaal vs Mahmoud Abbas - respectively); but there are a half-dozen or more factions out there that should not be counted-out just yet.. And in this,you have to be a bit careful. Even as something as simple as, what constitutes "Palestine," is argued even amongst Palestinians.

In the case of HAMAS (The Islamic Resistance Movement), An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam.And I recommend that we are cautious in the use of the term "Islamist" (which is not the same as a Hostile Arab Palestinian, Islamic fighters, militants or insurgents, extremists or radicals or asymmetric opponents, --- who may or may not be Islamists.

Today, the Middle East is so filled with hostiles, radicals, and fundamentalist, that you almost need a scorecard to keep track of them.

Yes, that's why Hamas wants to establish an Islamic caliphate of Palestine over the corpse of a destroyed Israel, while Israel is a tolerant secular democracy home to about two million Arab Muslims who live as Israeli citizens as well as doing an amazing job hosting and protecting holy shrines of all major world religions.

I'm fully aware of the propaganda.

(IMPORTANT REFERENCE on HAMAS)

With regards to the rise of Islamists to power and the significance and impact this has on the issue, this does not imply that Palestine only needs Islamists, or that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, as national Islamic Palestinian powers, are only in need of Islamists due to their importance, distinction, and firm position towards the issue. On the contrary, we need all the nation’s trends and elements; the Islamists, nationalists, liberals, and the left-wing. This is our nation, and we need everyone in it, and Palestine was and will remain a national issue. It is also necessary to disassociate ourselves from any divisions or sectarian, racial, or religious alignments. May Allah rid us of the hateful sectarianism that has spread over the region; May Allah rid us of racial, religious, and denominational divisions. Our nation has always been characterised with this beautiful diversity; this is a history that we have inherited, which has formed the nation’s civilization and course throughout history. Today, it is wrong for us to explore these gaps, in which our enemies pour oil and fire to destroy us. This not only requires us to instil correct ideas and concepts, but also entails that our behaviour, as countries, movements, academics, or intellectuals must be in line with these positions and concepts, and does not promote sectarian or ethnic feelings.

(COMMENT)

As you can tell by the Khalid Mishaal quote, that HAMAS is keeping it options open; especially in regards to excessive devotion to Islam and the idea of a Caliphate. For Palestine, this is a tightrope. HAMAS and the Palestinians cannot be seen as being on the wrong side of the Koran. If you study Khalid Mishaal, you will notice that he see the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from three aspect angles:

• A simple Islamic Movement,
• A a very familiar national liberations movement,
• Palestinian rallying point, a new central hub.
​

But Mishaal does not see HAMAS as a hard core advocate, and introduction of, establishing a new order in the Arab League

An Islamist is "an advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam." (wikipedia) He does not have a vision of HAMAS contributing to a Salafist movement or Caliphate, a return to the 7th Century Islamic ideas and morals of the era of era at the expense inalienable rights (in a Caliphate, the Caliph has absolute authority).

DAESH (ISIS) seeks to establish political domain and the agencies by using religious institutions,
such as sharia courts, to support and justify the political arm.

Salafi-jihadist (militant Sunni Islamism - Salafism, an Islamist revivalist movement within Sunni Islam) based on two criteria.

First, the importance of returning to a “pure” Islam, and activity that is justified by the new color of law.
Second, the spread and adoption jihad is fard ‘ayn (a personal religious duty).
​

While it cannot be denied that Mishaal and HAMAS have advocated the first many time, most recently in the HAMAS Position Paper of 2012, clearly the first criteria is going to be very hard to secure.

Most Respectfully,
R

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Fenton Lum, Roudy, MJB12741, montelatici, et al,

Yes, trying to stay up with the propaganda (both the recommended and non-recommended) is quite a task in itself.

When we talk about the goals and objectives of the Palestinians (destiny kind of stuff), we have to remember that, unlike most governments, there is no truly unified political or diplomatic voice that speaks for the Palestinian People. --- Although that was suppose to have been settled some 4 decades ago when the Resolution adopted at the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference on 28 October 1974, recognising the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the “sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.”

In most conversations, we just assume that we are either talking about HAMAS or the PLO (Khalid Mishaal vs Mahmoud Abbas - respectively); but there are a half-dozen or more factions out there that should not be counted-out just yet.. And in this,you have to be a bit careful. Even as something as simple as, what constitutes "Palestine," is argued even amongst Palestinians.

In the case of HAMAS (The Islamic Resistance Movement), An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam.And I recommend that we are cautious in the use of the term "Islamist" (which is not the same as a Hostile Arab Palestinian, Islamic fighters, militants or insurgents, extremists or radicals or asymmetric opponents, --- who may or may not be Islamists.

Today, the Middle East is so filled with hostiles, radicals, and fundamentalist, that you almost need a scorecard to keep track of them.

(IMPORTANT REFERENCE on HAMAS)

(COMMENT)

As you can tell by the Khalid Mishaal quote, that HAMAS is keeping it options open; especially in regards to excessive devotion to Islam and the idea of a Caliphate. For Palestine, this is a tightrope. HAMAS and the Palestinians cannot be seen as being on the wrong side of the Koran. If you study Khalid Mishaal, you will notice that he see the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from three aspect angles:

• A simple Islamic Movement,
• A a very familiar national liberations movement,
• Palestinian rallying point, a new central hub.
​

But Mishaal does not see HAMAS as a hard core advocate, and introduction of, establishing a new order in the Arab League

An Islamist is "an advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam." (wikipedia) He does not have a vision of HAMAS contributing to a Salafist movement or Caliphate, a return to the 7th Century Islamic ideas and morals of the era of era at the expense inalienable rights (in a Caliphate, the Caliph has absolute authority).

DAESH (ISIS) seeks to establish political domain and the agencies by using religious institutions,
such as sharia courts, to support and justify the political arm.

Salafi-jihadist (militant Sunni Islamism - Salafism, an Islamist revivalist movement within Sunni Islam) based on two criteria.

First, the importance of returning to a “pure” Islam, and activity that is justified by the new color of law.
Second, the spread and adoption jihad is fard ‘ayn (a personal religious duty).
​

While it cannot be denied that Mishaal and HAMAS have advocated the first many time, most recently in the HAMAS Position Paper of 2012, clearly the first criteria is going to be very hard to secure.

Most Respectfully,
R

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

If we can get around the endless propaganda machine and Israeli lobby.

 

[Phoenall]

Divestment is what finally brought down Apartheid in South Africa.

It can also bring down the israeli Apartheid.

still waiting for the evidence of apartheid in Israel, will you ever find any ?

I think aware folk know what's going on there with the Israeli's Palestinian cleansing and terrorism.

The same ones that cant find any evidence and still run with the lies.

If it is so widespread as you claim then you will have no problem producing the links. The only cleansing is that of the Christians by the palestinians

You only find the info that supports your belief system. No one can help you with that but you.

Do you also need someone to provide you links on how euros genocided their way into occupation of North America?

So you cant find any links so you try and project your failure. The topic is Isreal/Palestine so keep to the topic and don't try and deflect by bringing in other nations. The other islamonazi propagandists all try that and fail because they are too stupid to keep on topic.


So how about those links to Israeli cleansing of Palestinians and apartheid in Israel ?

 

[Fenton Lum]

It can also bring down the israeli Apartheid.

still waiting for the evidence of apartheid in Israel, will you ever find any ?

I think aware folk know what's going on there with the Israeli's Palestinian cleansing and terrorism.

The same ones that cant find any evidence and still run with the lies.

If it is so widespread as you claim then you will have no problem producing the links. The only cleansing is that of the Christians by the palestinians

You only find the info that supports your belief system. No one can help you with that but you.

Do you also need someone to provide you links on how euros genocided their way into occupation of North America?

So you cant find any links so you try and project your failure. The topic is Isreal/Palestine so keep to the topic and don't try and deflect by bringing in other nations. The other islamonazi propagandists all try that and fail because they are too stupid to keep on topic.


So how about those links to Israeli cleansing of Palestinians and apartheid in Israel ?

I thought you were going to post links proving Israel is not occupying and settling on Palestinian land.

 

[Roudy]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Gee waddaya know, he lied again!

 

[Roudy]

still waiting for the evidence of apartheid in Israel, will you ever find any ?

I think aware folk know what's going on there with the Israeli's Palestinian cleansing and terrorism.

The same ones that cant find any evidence and still run with the lies.

If it is so widespread as you claim then you will have no problem producing the links. The only cleansing is that of the Christians by the palestinians

You only find the info that supports your belief system. No one can help you with that but you.

Do you also need someone to provide you links on how euros genocided their way into occupation of North America?

So you cant find any links so you try and project your failure. The topic is Isreal/Palestine so keep to the topic and don't try and deflect by bringing in other nations. The other islamonazi propagandists all try that and fail because they are too stupid to keep on topic.


So how about those links to Israeli cleansing of Palestinians and apartheid in Israel ?

I thought you were going to post links proving Israel is not occupying and settling on Paletinian land.

It isn't Palestinian land. It was ottoman land for the last 700 years, then British from about the 1920's to late 1940's, then five Arab nations attacked Israel and even though they were defeated, the Jordanians and Egyptians occupied the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years up to 1967, where the Arabs once again attacked Israel and this time they lost those as well. During the last twenty years of Arabs "occupying" the same lands, there was no whining about an occupation, nor was there a peep from anybody about a "Palestine".

So who should Israel be giving the land back to? The Jordanians and Egyptians? The British? The Turks? And why can't Jews live in their ancestral and religious homeland? Because a bunch of savage Muslims said so?

 

[montelatici]

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

If we can get around the endless propaganda machine and Israeli lobby.

The young are coming around in the U.S.

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

 

[Roudy]

Fenton Lum, Roudy, MJB12741, montelatici, et al,

Yes, trying to stay up with the propaganda (both the recommended and non-recommended) is quite a task in itself.

When we talk about the goals and objectives of the Palestinians (destiny kind of stuff), we have to remember that, unlike most governments, there is no truly unified political or diplomatic voice that speaks for the Palestinian People. --- Although that was suppose to have been settled some 4 decades ago when the Resolution adopted at the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference on 28 October 1974, recognising the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the “sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.”

In most conversations, we just assume that we are either talking about HAMAS or the PLO (Khalid Mishaal vs Mahmoud Abbas - respectively); but there are a half-dozen or more factions out there that should not be counted-out just yet.. And in this,you have to be a bit careful. Even as something as simple as, what constitutes "Palestine," is argued even amongst Palestinians.

In the case of HAMAS (The Islamic Resistance Movement), An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam.And I recommend that we are cautious in the use of the term "Islamist" (which is not the same as a Hostile Arab Palestinian, Islamic fighters, militants or insurgents, extremists or radicals or asymmetric opponents, --- who may or may not be Islamists.

Today, the Middle East is so filled with hostiles, radicals, and fundamentalist, that you almost need a scorecard to keep track of them.

(IMPORTANT REFERENCE on HAMAS)

(COMMENT)

As you can tell by the Khalid Mishaal quote, that HAMAS is keeping it options open; especially in regards to excessive devotion to Islam and the idea of a Caliphate. For Palestine, this is a tightrope. HAMAS and the Palestinians cannot be seen as being on the wrong side of the Koran. If you study Khalid Mishaal, you will notice that he see the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from three aspect angles:

• A simple Islamic Movement,
• A a very familiar national liberations movement,
• Palestinian rallying point, a new central hub.
​

But Mishaal does not see HAMAS as a hard core advocate, and introduction of, establishing a new order in the Arab League

An Islamist is "an advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam." (wikipedia) He does not have a vision of HAMAS contributing to a Salafist movement or Caliphate, a return to the 7th Century Islamic ideas and morals of the era of era at the expense inalienable rights (in a Caliphate, the Caliph has absolute authority).

DAESH (ISIS) seeks to establish political domain and the agencies by using religious institutions,
such as sharia courts, to support and justify the political arm.

Salafi-jihadist (militant Sunni Islamism - Salafism, an Islamist revivalist movement within Sunni Islam) based on two criteria.

First, the importance of returning to a “pure” Islam, and activity that is justified by the new color of law.
Second, the spread and adoption jihad is fard ‘ayn (a personal religious duty).
​

While it cannot be denied that Mishaal and HAMAS have advocated the first many time, most recently in the HAMAS Position Paper of 2012, clearly the first criteria is going to be very hard to secure.

Most Respectfully,
R

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

Nah the Ottomans never considered a Palestine or Palestinian because the name itself is a Christian European invention. When the Ottomans conquered and ruled the land for 700 years they called the land Southern Syria. Jews had been there both before the Ottoman conquest and especially after, they were invited by the Ottomans where they resettled in great numbers in their holyland. Your attempts to wipe out the Jewish ties and history to the land are pathetic and futile.

 

[Roudy]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

 

[Roudy]

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

If we can get around the endless propaganda machine and Israeli lobby.

The young are coming around in the U.S.

Keep dreaming.

 

[montelatici]

I think aware folk know what's going on there with the Israeli's Palestinian cleansing and terrorism.

The same ones that cant find any evidence and still run with the lies.

If it is so widespread as you claim then you will have no problem producing the links. The only cleansing is that of the Christians by the palestinians

You only find the info that supports your belief system. No one can help you with that but you.

Do you also need someone to provide you links on how euros genocided their way into occupation of North America?

So you cant find any links so you try and project your failure. The topic is Isreal/Palestine so keep to the topic and don't try and deflect by bringing in other nations. The other islamonazi propagandists all try that and fail because they are too stupid to keep on topic.


So how about those links to Israeli cleansing of Palestinians and apartheid in Israel ?

I thought you were going to post links proving Israel is not occupying and settling on Paletinian land.

It isn't Palestinian land. It was ottoman land for the last 700 years, then British from about the 1920's to late 1940's, then five Arab nations attacked Israel and even though they were defeated, the Jordanians and Egyptians occupied the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years up to 1967, where the Arabs once again attacked Israel and this time they lost those as well. During the last twenty years of Arabs "occupying" the same lands, there was no whining about an occupation, nor was there a peep from anybody about a "Palestine".

So who should Israel be giving the land back to? The Jordanians and Egyptians? The British? The Turks? And why can't Jews live in their ancestral and religious homeland? Because a bunch of savage Muslims said so?

1. Ottomans did not rule Palestine for 700 years, as explained in another post. Why do you keep lying?

2. It was not the ancestral homeland of Europeans that practiced Judaism. It is and was the ancestral home of the native inhabitants, who happened to have converted to Christianity and Islam.

3. As was required under article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, the land was to remain with the inhabitants, 95% of whom were Christians and Muslims.

ARTICLE 22.
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.

 

[Fenton Lum]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.

Wouldn't matter, for Roudy there is only 100 & 0.

 

[MJB12741]

I think aware folk know what's going on there with the Israeli's Palestinian cleansing and terrorism.

The same ones that cant find any evidence and still run with the lies.

If it is so widespread as you claim then you will have no problem producing the links. The only cleansing is that of the Christians by the palestinians

You only find the info that supports your belief system. No one can help you with that but you.

Do you also need someone to provide you links on how euros genocided their way into occupation of North America?

So you cant find any links so you try and project your failure. The topic is Isreal/Palestine so keep to the topic and don't try and deflect by bringing in other nations. The other islamonazi propagandists all try that and fail because they are too stupid to keep on topic.


So how about those links to Israeli cleansing of Palestinians and apartheid in Israel ?

I thought you were going to post links proving Israel is not occupying and settling on Paletinian land.

It isn't Palestinian land. It was ottoman land for the last 700 years, then British from about the 1920's to late 1940's, then five Arab nations attacked Israel and even though they were defeated, the Jordanians and Egyptians occupied the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years up to 1967, where the Arabs once again attacked Israel and this time they lost those as well. During the last twenty years of Arabs "occupying" the same lands, there was no whining about an occupation, nor was there a peep from anybody about a "Palestine".

So who should Israel be giving the land back to? The Jordanians and Egyptians? The British? The Turks? And why can't Jews live in their ancestral and religious homeland? Because a bunch of savage Muslims said so?

Well done Roudy. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[MJB12741]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.

Outstanding point Monte. And the Nazi's also only had around 34% support. Thanks for hanging yourself again for us to laugh at.

 

[montelatici]

Dumb complimenting Dumber's inarticulate blather. Precious.

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.

Outstanding point Monte. And the Nazi's also only had around 34% support. Thanks for hanging yourself again for us to laugh at.

LIKUD and Leiberman's party, latter day Nazis have more than 34% support. But, stay off the sauce when you post, I never "hang" myself. I make a fool of you, as you are either dumb or dumber, not sure which.

 

[RoccoR]

Fenton Lum, et al,

I have to step out of character here for a moment.

"If anyone think that there has been any Empire of the past that has not had a ton of blood on there hands; its a bit naive."

That's not really the question though is it.

(QUESTIONS)

• As for taking whatever you can?
• But if you're attempting to suggest our motives are of a more pure nature today for intervention than those we can pretzel ourselves into rationalizing in the past, not sure I agree.

(COMMENT)

The is no such thing in history as a major power with "pure" motives behind their actions on the road to becoming a Empire or Hegemony. It just as some motives (good or bad); it is just that the motives and be seen as being either more or less (evil or not evil) on the "X" Axis.

However, some of the justifications used today to condemn actions of the past (acceptable in the past but unacceptable today) are billed to be the righteous answer. --- And that in Machiavellian Form, this standard become the only standard (the pure motive) by which to measure the action of the past against. And we know that is simply not true when looked at from a global position.

If, we are to evaluate the actual "legacy, and it's a mess," --- then one of the possible alternatives would have been the victorious Islamic Caliphate over Western Democracy. I could have come to pass that the Jewish National Home is never established, and the Jewish culture is disintegrated. That maybe Arieh Warshel, discovery of computational approach to study functional properties of biological molecules, Serge Haroche methods that enable measuring and manipulation of individual quantum systems," or the other 190 major contributors to human development as Nobel laureates (Chemistry, Economics, Physics, andPhysiology/Medicine,) in a line dating back to a time before the Great War.

We don't know if the current outcome would have been better or worse if the past would have been altered to the point that the messy legacy would have changed for the better. The legacy we have is the culmination in a set conditions that bring us forward. In order for the Allied Powers in 1920, or the British Foreign Office in 1916, or Dr Chaim Weizmann to be inspired in 1907 to promote projects and programs that enabled the JNH to become a reality, a safe haven against tyranny and oppression.

THUS, alternative futures are a waste of time (literally). You just can't go back and tweak one little little thing that would evolve to the outcome you want (the non-messy legacy).

Just My Thought,
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

Fenton Lum, Roudy, MJB12741, montelatici, et al,

Yes, trying to stay up with the propaganda (both the recommended and non-recommended) is quite a task in itself.

When we talk about the goals and objectives of the Palestinians (destiny kind of stuff), we have to remember that, unlike most governments, there is no truly unified political or diplomatic voice that speaks for the Palestinian People. --- Although that was suppose to have been settled some 4 decades ago when the Resolution adopted at the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference on 28 October 1974, recognising the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the “sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.”

In most conversations, we just assume that we are either talking about HAMAS or the PLO (Khalid Mishaal vs Mahmoud Abbas - respectively); but there are a half-dozen or more factions out there that should not be counted-out just yet.. And in this,you have to be a bit careful. Even as something as simple as, what constitutes "Palestine," is argued even amongst Palestinians.

In the case of HAMAS (The Islamic Resistance Movement), An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam.And I recommend that we are cautious in the use of the term "Islamist" (which is not the same as a Hostile Arab Palestinian, Islamic fighters, militants or insurgents, extremists or radicals or asymmetric opponents, --- who may or may not be Islamists.

Today, the Middle East is so filled with hostiles, radicals, and fundamentalist, that you almost need a scorecard to keep track of them.

(IMPORTANT REFERENCE on HAMAS)

(COMMENT)

As you can tell by the Khalid Mishaal quote, that HAMAS is keeping it options open; especially in regards to excessive devotion to Islam and the idea of a Caliphate. For Palestine, this is a tightrope. HAMAS and the Palestinians cannot be seen as being on the wrong side of the Koran. If you study Khalid Mishaal, you will notice that he see the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from three aspect angles:

• A simple Islamic Movement,
• A a very familiar national liberations movement,
• Palestinian rallying point, a new central hub.
​

But Mishaal does not see HAMAS as a hard core advocate, and introduction of, establishing a new order in the Arab League

An Islamist is "an advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam." (wikipedia) He does not have a vision of HAMAS contributing to a Salafist movement or Caliphate, a return to the 7th Century Islamic ideas and morals of the era of era at the expense inalienable rights (in a Caliphate, the Caliph has absolute authority).

DAESH (ISIS) seeks to establish political domain and the agencies by using religious institutions,
such as sharia courts, to support and justify the political arm.

Salafi-jihadist (militant Sunni Islamism - Salafism, an Islamist revivalist movement within Sunni Islam) based on two criteria.

First, the importance of returning to a “pure” Islam, and activity that is justified by the new color of law.
Second, the spread and adoption jihad is fard ‘ayn (a personal religious duty).
​

While it cannot be denied that Mishaal and HAMAS have advocated the first many time, most recently in the HAMAS Position Paper of 2012, clearly the first criteria is going to be very hard to secure.

Most Respectfully,
R

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

And what about the Palestinian Jews that also lived there, shows just how even handed you are when you totally ignore and deny the second largest religion in that area prior to 1948