MILITIAS - The CONSTITUTIONAL means of dealing with government tyranny and over reach

[Concerned American]

The Patriot act was indeed a totalitarian move by the conservative right wing republican lead and controlled administration o f George W Bush.

Thank you for that "WHO THE FUCK CARES" piece of info. The point of the OP is government overreach BY ANYONE. Stupid fucking troll.

And that was not government overreach by someone? Maybe you should define for us all what is and is not government overreach or narrow down on your next thread to your real point.

I think it was very clear that he was saying "the government." Last I checked that includes both parties. Trouble is you are so partisan that you think the democrats are gods that are beyond reproach. You are truly a myopic moron.

 

[colfax_m]

that wasnt your argument and if it was its not true cause you didnt specify 50% of who,,,

I shouldn’t have to given that it was completely obvious what I was referring to. You’re the one playing word games.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Losing an election is not government tyranny and overreach.

Legislative bodies at the state level changing election rules outside the authority of the constitution is, however.

It undermines the entire system of governance.

Apparently that's too complex of a discussion for folks?

 

[progressive hunter]

that wasnt your argument and if it was its not true cause you didnt specify 50% of who,,,

I shouldn’t have to given that it was completely obvious what I was referring to. You’re the one playing word games.

how could it be obvious when its completely wrong,,
20% of dems think the election had problems that effected the outcome,,,

and again youre ignoring the people that didnt vote,, their opinion matters too,,,

 

[White 6]

The Patriot act was indeed a totalitarian move by the conservative right wing republican lead and controlled administration o f George W Bush.

Thank you for that "WHO THE FUCK CARES" piece of info. The point of the OP is government overreach BY ANYONE. Stupid fucking troll.

And that was not government overreach by someone? Maybe you should define for us all what is and is not government overreach or narrow down on your next thread to your real point.

I think it was very clear that he was saying "the government." Last I checked that includes both parties. Trouble is you are so partisan that you think the democrats are gods that are beyond reproach. You are truly a myopic moron.

You never heard me say the democrat are gods, or even superior to republican in general. So, you are talking out your wide ass. Been here about a year and a month, feel free to check my posts.

 

[Concerned American]

Like it or not...America was founded on principles of God Given Human Rights and the control of government power.
While you may not believe in God, many do, and the Unted States of America was SOLIDLY founded on that belief.

Unfortunately, many do not believe in God. And some very wealthy and powerful people believe that neither God nor the Constitution will stand
in the way of their claim to power and control. As these claim a larger share and revoke more rights, the Constitutional answer is Militias.

But are we at a point where their rise and use is justified?

Are Militias the ONLY way to stop the over step of power and the dilution of Constitutional Rights?

Or.......

Should America simply allow the dilution and over step to continue until it is understood that the Constitution is meaningless and that those who grabbed power illegally are entitled to it?

Americans have suffered a countless barrage of Constitutional breaches and the incursions seem to be on the rise.
These affect not only Republicans, but democrats as well.

The Patriot Act for example give the government unConstitutional Powers over basic Rights enumerated in the Constitution.

Illegal Search and seizures and Warrantless searches have become widely accepted.

We are in fact losing our rights. Next up will be the Biden Administrations self proclaimed "duty" to make America "safe" by making
gun ownership very difficult if not impossible.

At what point are militias necessary to slow, stop or reverse these government grabs of power?

Or, are Militias simply outdated fantasies that have no place in the modern world?

The aspect of citizen raised Militias that concerns me most—as a lifelong American Citizen, a career Army veteran and a former federal law enforcement officer—is INTENT. IF citizen militias were raised and formed and well organized, say from the population of every county across our once great nation, then they would have to answer to a centralized command which was thoroughly grounded in the Constitution as devised by our Founding Fathers, Washington's political philosophies in particular. Such a movement would have to view itself only as a restoration movement; a movement to restore or reset the function of our federal government to rule by the original Constitution, with particular focus on restoring, enshrining and forever protecting our 1st and 2nd Amendments.

What I'm getting at is citizen militias could become as dangerous and oppressive as the security forces of our current government unless their intent was bound to Constitutional Law and their power directly tied to We The People via some kind of beefed up system of checks and balances. Otherwise, citizen militias could unseat the powers that oppress us only to in turn become new forces of tyranny. Thus all militias would have to be united under a single leadership backed by hand selected constitutional scholars. Without this national command structure and unified purpose citizen militias could and likely would become rogue forces driven by many different end goals, few of which a majority of Americans could get behind or approve of.

What the primary strategy of America's internal enemy has been for some years is the domination and transformation of American culture, values, ideology and sociology at the LOCAL level. They have attacked our local schools through school boards, educational systems through twisted curriculum; attacked our local judiciary and prosecutor's offices by installing UN and Soros backed candidates and attempted to change America for the worse by many other means at the town, city and county levels. This is where citizen militias could be the answer to taking America back—one local municipality at a time. But any such movement would have to proceed very, very carefully, both in order to win the support of local populations and to avoid too much direct conflict with security forces of our corrupt current government. Overall it could turn into a real shit-show in a hurry and all media outlets would equate coordinated citizen militias with ISIS or some other terrorist group in very short order.

We already have a citizens militia operating within each state, under the control of every Governor of each state. The Army National Guard and the Air National Guard, and their officers are pledged to support the Constitution of the United States. Problem solved.

You hit the nail on the head. "Under the control of every governor (add the POTUS) to that as evidenced by elder Bush's use in Kuwait (yeah, that was "national"--not) The idea of a militia was to allow CITIZENS to prevent government overreach. Brown, OR and Inslee, WA, showed very well this summer that they won't activate the guard when liberals are acting up, but let a hand full of whack jobs act up in DC and the guard is out in force in Olympia to prevent government disruption. You are a commie leftist moron and not worth anymore of my time.

 

[Concerned American]

The Patriot act was indeed a totalitarian move by the conservative right wing republican lead and controlled administration o f George W Bush.

Thank you for that "WHO THE FUCK CARES" piece of info. The point of the OP is government overreach BY ANYONE. Stupid fucking troll.

And that was not government overreach by someone? Maybe you should define for us all what is and is not government overreach or narrow down on your next thread to your real point.

I think it was very clear that he was saying "the government." Last I checked that includes both parties. Trouble is you are so partisan that you think the democrats are gods that are beyond reproach. You are truly a myopic moron.

You never heard me say the democrat are gods, or even superior to republican in general. So, you are talking out your wide ass. Been here about a year and a month, feel free to check my posts.

I've been here for about a month, BFD. I saw what you were made of the first day.

 

[colfax_m]

that wasnt your argument and if it was its not true cause you didnt specify 50% of who,,,

I shouldn’t have to given that it was completely obvious what I was referring to. You’re the one playing word games.

how could it be obvious when its completely wrong,,
20% of dems think the election had problems that effected the outcome,,,

and again youre ignoring the people that didnt vote,, their opinion matters too,,,

Their opinion would matter if they voiced it. They chose to be ignored.

 

[progressive hunter]

that wasnt your argument and if it was its not true cause you didnt specify 50% of who,,,

I shouldn’t have to given that it was completely obvious what I was referring to. You’re the one playing word games.

how could it be obvious when its completely wrong,,
20% of dems think the election had problems that effected the outcome,,,

and again youre ignoring the people that didnt vote,, their opinion matters too,,,

Their opinion would matter if they voiced it. They chose to be ignored.

their opinion always matters,,, its you that chooses to ignore them cause it debunks your narrative,,,

 

[Natural Citizen]

Militias are reserved by the state for the sole purpose of using force against federal usurpers.

This function is where 'well regulated' derives.

Unfortunately, what's going on is that some state Republics are doing the federal Republic's dirty work. That's a much deeper discussion.

Recall that America is correctly referred to as a Compound Republic. Or learn it or whatever. I see so many people misdefine our form of government that it's just laughable at this point.

Anyway. A bunch of half-wits can't just form a posse and say they're gonna go fight the government. lolol.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Like it or not...America was founded on principles of God Given Human Rights and the control of government power.
While you may not believe in God, many do, and the Unted States of America was SOLIDLY founded on that belief.

Unfortunately, many do not believe in God. And some very wealthy and powerful people believe that neither God nor the Constitution will stand
in the way of their claim to power and control. As these claim a larger share and revoke more rights, the Constitutional answer is Militias.

But are we at a point where their rise and use is justified?

Are Militias the ONLY way to stop the over step of power and the dilution of Constitutional Rights?

Or.......

Should America simply allow the dilution and over step to continue until it is understood that the Constitution is meaningless and that those who grabbed power illegally are entitled to it?

Americans have suffered a countless barrage of Constitutional breaches and the incursions seem to be on the rise.
These affect not only Republicans, but democrats as well.

The Patriot Act for example give the government unConstitutional Powers over basic Rights enumerated in the Constitution.

Illegal Search and seizures and Warrantless searches have become widely accepted.

We are in fact losing our rights. Next up will be the Biden Administrations self proclaimed "duty" to make America "safe" by making
gun ownership very difficult if not impossible.

At what point are militias necessary to slow, stop or reverse these government grabs of power?

Or, are Militias simply outdated fantasies that have no place in the modern world?

This fails as a false dilemma fallacy.

There is nothing in the history, text, or case law of the Second Amendment that authorizes insurrectionist dogma.

That some might incorrectly and subjectively perceive government to have overreached or become ‘tyrannical’ doesn’t make it so; the Second Amendment doesn’t ‘trump’ the First Amendment – it doesn’t take from the people their right to petition the government for a redress of grievances through either the political or judicial process.

We will never be at the point were armed insurrection is ‘justified.’

It’s not a matter of militias being outdated or a fantasy, it’s a matter of armed insurrection to overthrow the government contrary to the will of the people being unlawful, un-Constitutional, and completely devoid of merit.

‘We are in fact losing our rights. Next up will be the Biden Administrations self proclaimed "duty" to make America "safe" by making gun ownership very difficult if not impossible.’

This is a lie, not a fact – as idiotic as it is wrong; we are not ‘losing’ our rights.

Congress will enact no laws making gun ownership ‘difficult’ or ‘impossible.’

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Losing an election is not government tyranny and overreach.

You did not read the OP.

Posting before you do makes you a knee jerker

There are MANY examples of government over reach that have been going on for a long time.

Taz read it and so did I. Just admit that you probably think it's okay for violent militia uprisings such as we just saw in DC because idiots didn't like the result of a free and fair election.

this is about the CONSTITUTION.

MILITIAS ARE IN THE CONSTITUTION.

You do not seem to posses the aptitude for reasonable debate.

And there’s nothing in the Constitution authorizing militias to ‘overthrow’ a lawfully elected government reflecting the will of the people because a minority incorrectly and subjectively believes government has become ‘tyrannical.’

 

[White 6]

The Patriot act was indeed a totalitarian move by the conservative right wing republican lead and controlled administration o f George W Bush.

Thank you for that "WHO THE FUCK CARES" piece of info. The point of the OP is government overreach BY ANYONE. Stupid fucking troll.

And that was not government overreach by someone? Maybe you should define for us all what is and is not government overreach or narrow down on your next thread to your real point.

I think it was very clear that he was saying "the government." Last I checked that includes both parties. Trouble is you are so partisan that you think the democrats are gods that are beyond reproach. You are truly a myopic moron.

You never heard me say the democrat are gods, or even superior to republican in general. So, you are talking out your wide ass. Been here about a year and a month, feel free to check my posts.

I've been here for about a month, BFD. I saw what you were made of the first day.

I just saw where you DisApproved of the citizen soldiers of the Army and Air National Guard when I posted that they are in fact under the governors of every state. Who in the heck can not approve of the National Guard?

 

[White 6]

Militias are reserved by the state for the sole purpose of using force against federal usurpers.

This ifunction is where 'well regulated' derives.

Unfortunately, what's going on is that some state Republics are doing the federal Republic's dirty work. That's a much deeper discussion.

Recall that America is correctly referred to as a Compound Republic. Or learn it or whatever. I see soa many people misdefine our form of government tht it's just laughable at this point.

Anyway. A bunch of half-wits can't just form a posse and say they're gonna go fight the government. lolol.

They can, but it is a really, really bad idea.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The aspect of citizen raised Militias that concerns me most—as a lifelong American Citizen, a career Army veteran and a former federal law enforcement officer—is INTENT. IF citizen militias were raised and formed and well organized, say from the population of every county across our once great nation, then they would have to answer to a centralized command which was thoroughly grounded in the Constitution as devised by our Founding Fathers, Washington's political philosophies in particular. Such a movement would have to view itself only as a restoration movement; a movement to restore or reset the function of our federal government to rule by the original Constitution, with particular focus on restoring, enshrining and forever protecting our 1st and 2nd Amendments.

What I'm getting at is citizen militias could become as dangerous and oppressive as the security forces of our current government unless their intent was bound to Constitutional Law and their power directly tied to We The People via some kind of beefed up system of checks and balances. Otherwise, citizen militias could unseat the powers that oppress us only to in turn become new forces of tyranny. Thus all militias would have to be united under a single leadership backed by hand selected constitutional scholars. Without this national command structure and unified purpose citizen militias could and likely would become rogue forces driven by many different end goals, few of which a majority of Americans could get behind or approve of.

What the primary strategy of America's internal enemy has been for some years is the domination and transformation of American culture, values, ideology and sociology at the LOCAL level. They have attacked our local schools through school boards, educational systems through twisted curriculum; attacked our local judiciary and prosecutor's offices by installing UN and Soros backed candidates and attempted to change America for the worse by many other means at the town, city and county levels. This is where citizen militias could be the answer to taking America back—one local municipality at a time. But any such movement would have to proceed very, very carefully, both in order to win the support of local populations and to avoid too much direct conflict with security forces of our corrupt current government. Overall it could turn into a real shit-show in a hurry and all media outlets would equate coordinated citizen militias with ISIS or some other terrorist group in very short order.

Thank You! Great post, N_S. You said it much better than I did.

As an aside, The Federalist explains the states' use of militias and force against federal usurpers perfectly.

Unfortunately, we have a situation where some states are actually functioning outside the authority delegated to them and subsequently running interference for said federal usurpers.

 

[progressive hunter]

Losing an election is not government tyranny and overreach.

You did not read the OP.

Posting before you do makes you a knee jerker

There are MANY examples of government over reach that have been going on for a long time.

Taz read it and so did I. Just admit that you probably think it's okay for violent militia uprisings such as we just saw in DC because idiots didn't like the result of a free and fair election.

this is about the CONSTITUTION.

MILITIAS ARE IN THE CONSTITUTION.

You do not seem to posses the aptitude for reasonable debate.

And there’s nothing in the Constitution authorizing militias to ‘overthrow’ a lawfully elected government reflecting the will of the people because a minority incorrectly and subjectively believes government has become ‘tyrannical.’

you ever read the oath of office of everyone from POTUS to the police in your city???

 

[progressive hunter]

Here is Madison's first draft of the Second Amendment: “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, a well-armed and well-regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.”Dec 16, 2017

 

[progressive hunter]

Losing an election is not government tyranny and overreach.

You did not read the OP.

Posting before you do makes you a knee jerker

There are MANY examples of government over reach that have been going on for a long time.

Taz read it and so did I. Just admit that you probably think it's okay for violent militia uprisings such as we just saw in DC because idiots didn't like the result of a free and fair election.

this is about the CONSTITUTION.

MILITIAS ARE IN THE CONSTITUTION.

You do not seem to posses the aptitude for reasonable debate.

And there’s nothing in the Constitution authorizing militias to ‘overthrow’ a lawfully elected government reflecting the will of the people because a minority incorrectly and subjectively believes government has become ‘tyrannical.’

its in the 2nd amendment dumbass,,,

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Easy - Militias have no place in the modern world.

What you are saying then....is that the people should have no recourse to government tyranny.

I could understand a Chinese person saying this.

What we are saying is that your recourse is a nonviolent one. Elections.

Half or more of the nation believes the election was fraudulent

As such, militias are gaining membership and strength rapidly.

This is a lie.

A majority of American believe the 2020 election was legitimate.

Poll Results | Quinnipiac University Poll

Quinnipiac University Poll’s list of recent and past poll results for political races, state and national elections, and issues of public concern.

poll.qu.edu

 

[Concerned American]

Militias are reserved by the state for the sole purpose of using force against federal usurpers.

This ifunction is where 'well regulated' derives.

Unfortunately, what's going on is that some state Republics are doing the federal Republic's dirty work. That's a much deeper discussion.

Recall that America is correctly referred to as a Compound Republic. Or learn it or whatever. I see soa many people misdefine our form of government tht it's just laughable at this point.

Anyway. A bunch of half-wits can't just form a posse and say they're gonna go fight the government. lolol.

Tell that to the half-wits that founded this country. The national guard is an arm of the military--under government control. Spin it any way you want to, but the fact remains that when the POTUS activated the national guard to go to Kuwait--they went. What nation were they guarding and why wasn't our powerful-to-the-extreme military not used?