Millions Of Electric Car Batteries Retiring By 2030, Are We Ready To Deal With What Could Be Ticking Time Bombs?

[badger2]

~~~~~~
The reason it gets more expensive each year is because the Oil Cartels make it so.
There's more than 100 years of petroleum in the ground. In fact China is sitting on billions of barrels of crude oil and trillions of cubic feet of natural gas that they haven't touched.

Even if it were not the question of this being a finite resource, anthropogenic climate issues must be proven true or a hoax.

 

[Captain Caveman]

The point at which socialism becomes impossible is precisely at the pivot between necessary labor and surplus labor. The EV-Hybrid assemblage should be superimposed on this concept for comparison. At the point of exchange, what exactly is necessary?

Just allow EV's to compete. If Beta Max is better than VHS, Beta Max would have been more popular. Both competed, VHS won.

Let's be honest for once in our lives, if EV's and ICE vehicles competed, EV's are the Beta Max.

So make EV's the same, if not better, than ICE vehicles before having the stupidity in banning them. That's why the majority don't want them but are forced into having them.

 

[Captain Caveman]

This "won't catch on" is problematic for some of us. This is not what we see at the local, urban evel. We see (petroleum addicts too) more and more ebikes on the road. These images and actual physicalies are evolving outside the auto industry pimp's control.

The evolution of the cargo bike is now morphing into an (enclosed compartment [italics]), though the collective IQ behind this evolution still leaves out the adult driver-owner of the vehicle, while tending to the kids. This is the profound impoverishment we now see in the American market. It is moving at a snail's pace, as if it were scared shitless to make a mistake, whilst the European market is producing enclosures for (all occupants of the electric machine [it.]).

The thing is, EV's are excellent at those that can afford to buy one, to charge at home, not to tow, to commute shorter distances. So for example, I need a van that can tow up to 3.5 tons, to magically charge itself because I can't at home, to do over 150 miles per day in one charge. But there's nothing on the market. And all I get from cretins is, " EV's are the future you denier, racist, bigot, transphobic, homophobic".

 

[Captain Caveman]

They already do. They are called hybrids. within the next five years, most cars and SUVs , not trucks, will only be available as hybrids or EVs.

Only because of legislation.

It was -6c this morning. So I have 3 fully charged 18V Makita batteries in my van, all 3 should have reasonable charge, if not better. Went to a job, needed to use my circular saw on 3 bits of woods and barely managed. So all 3 on charge. Luckily, I have 240v equivalent tools.

Why does that matter? Because if I had to wait an hour to charge batteries, the customer just paid an extras hour charge whilst I played Cribbage on my phone.

If I had to change my ICE van to and Electric at double the cost, fuck all range, and I can't tow so I have to wait for materials to be delivered, are you happy to pay over double the hourly rate?

So, a simple yes or no. A job that would cost $2,000, would you and everyone else give me $4,000 instead?

Please keep in mind 99% twine at $2,000.

 

[Crick]

Only because of legislation.

It was -6c this morning. So I have 3 fully charged 18V Makita batteries in my van, all 3 should have reasonable charge, if not better. Went to a job, needed to use my circular saw on 3 bits of woods and barely managed. So all 3 on charge. Luckily, I have 240v equivalent tools.

Why does that matter? Because if I had to wait an hour to charge batteries, the customer just paid an extras hour charge whilst I played Cribbage on my phone.

If I had to change my ICE van to and Electric at double the cost, fuck all range, and I can't tow so I have to wait for materials to be delivered, are you happy to pay over double the hourly rate?

So, a simple yes or no. A job that would cost $2,000, would you and everyone else give me $4,000 instead?

Please keep in mind 99% twine at $2,000.

An EV truck can tow just fine. The only valid complaint you could make would be range and solid state batteries will eliminate that issue and charge time.

 

[Captain Caveman]

An EV truck can tow just fine. The only valid complaint you could make would be range and solid state batteries will eliminate that issue and charge time.

Today, the timesheet was filled in. If I was just stuck to lithium batteries, the customer would have paid for an extra 45 mins. Batteries can be quick etc.. but I never rely on them, hence the 240v options. If it's heavy work load, battery tools won't get an eye in.

What do you mean by an EV truck? Could you link to one in the UK please.

Are you happy to pay double the cost to get things fixed at home?

 

[Crick]

Today, the timesheet was filled in. If I was just stuck to lithium batteries, the customer would have paid for an extra 45 mins. Batteries can be quick etc.. but I never rely on them, hence the 240v options. If it's heavy work load, battery tools won't get an eye in.

Normal voltage in the UK is 220V. If you bought 110V tools you'd be at risk of blowing them if they weren't dual-voltage and even those fail at relatively high rates.

What do you mean by an EV truck? Could you link to one in the UK please.

I have no idea what you can get in the UK. I didn't know that's where you were. Here in the US you can get the Ford F-150 Lightning or the Rivian R1T. GMC and Chevrolet have electric models that are just now coming on the market.

Are you happy to pay double the cost to get things fixed at home?

No, but if EVs were mandated, you and your competition would all still be equal in that regard.

 

[Dagosa]

Good post, will study.

Only because of legislation

Wrong. People are buying hybrids because they WANT THEM.You get no tax credits for regular hybrids.

It was -6c this morning. So I have 3 fully charged 18V Makita batteries in my van, all 3 should have reasonable charge, if not better. Went to a job, needed to use my circular saw on 3 bits of woods and barely managed. So all 3 on charge. Luckily, I have 240v equivalent tools.

Why does that matter? Because if I had to wait an hour to charge batteries, the customer just paid an extras hour charge whilst I played Cribbage on my phone.

If I had to change my ICE van to and Electric at double the cost, fuck all range, and I can't tow so I have to wait for materials to be delivered, are you happy to pay over double the hourly rate?

more made up shit. They aren’t double the cost. Think of another reason but repeating the same lie is boring. .

So, a simple yes or no. A job that would cost $2,000, would you and everyone else give me $4,000 instead?


Please keep in mind 99% twine at $2,000.

 

[badger2]

Just allow EV's to compete. If Beta Max is better than VHS, Beta Max would have been more popular. Both competed, VHS won.

Let's be honest for once in our lives, if EV's and ICE vehicles competed, EV's are the Beta Max.

So make EV's the same, if not better, than ICE vehicles before having the stupidity in banning them. That's why the majority don't want them but are forced into having them.

Apart from competition is the legislative move to electric that is beyond the control of the buyer, apparently.

 

[Dagosa]

Just allow EV's to compete. If Beta Max is better than VHS, Beta Max would have been more popular. Both competed, VHS won.

Really ? ANYWHERE without exception, where sufficient electricity is available, electric motors are the becoming the first choice over ICE.
It has nothing to do with “ which is best?” Electric motors win hands down. The driving factor is whether electricity is easily available.

Let's be honest for once in our lives, if EV's and ICE vehicles competed, EV's are the Beta Max.

How can you make that silly comparison. Electric motors are superior doing every job that ice does.…look at ice cars, electric motors have taken over every job in an auto except propulsion.

So make EV's the same, if not better, than ICE vehicles before having the stupidity in banning them. That's why the majority don't want them but are forced into having them.

ICE motors are not banned except in closed environments

 

[Dagosa]

Apart from competition is the legislative move to electric that is beyond the control of the buyer, apparently.

There is no legislation that forces people to buy EVs. It’s a free market.

 

[JohnDB]

Recycling technology should affect prices. We think its now more viable to pulverize the battery and do separation, microorganisms harvesting the lithium is slow, pyrotech, costly.

Something else to keep in mind is that if our Government went full nazi and tomorrow all cars made were to be electric...

Petroleum usage is still going to increase until the year 2050 at which point it will finally level out. (Used cars and trucks and other means of Petroleum use going to continue)
I'm not saying that finding another way of independent transportation is futile to stop Petroleum use or going to never work.
Far from it...

But at this point there is no incentive, they are doing this in a horrible fashion, and the technology is not viable yet.
There is no mad rush to install EV charging stations everywhere like there were for gas stations. It's just not happening.

 

[Dagosa]

Something else to keep in mind is that if our Government went full nazi and tomorrow all cars made were to be electric...

Petroleum usage is still going to increase until the year 2050 at which point it will finally level out. (Used cars and trucks and other means of Petroleum use going to continue)
I'm not saying that finding another way of independent transportation is futile to stop Petroleum use or going to never work.
Far from it...

But at this point there is no incentive, they are doing this in a horrible fashion, and the technology is not viable yet.
There is no mad rush to install EV charging stations everywhere like there were for gas stations. It's just not happening.

Charging stations come on line as needed. Unlike gas stations, they are prefab units that can be installed in existing lots where ever there is a freakin telephone poll.

 

[badger2]

Today, the timesheet was filled in. If I was just stuck to lithium batteries, the customer would have paid for an extra 45 mins. Batteries can be quick etc.. but I never rely on them, hence the 240v options. If it's heavy work load, battery tools won't get an eye in.

What do you mean by an EV truck? Could you link to one in the UK please.

Are you happy to pay double the cost to get things fixed at home?

UK has a problem with sunshine. All of badger2's power tools are solar-recharge though these are for light work.

Something else to keep in mind is that if our Government went full nazi and tomorrow all cars made were to be electric...

Petroleum usage is still going to increase until the year 2050 at which point it will finally level out. (Used cars and trucks and other means of Petroleum use going to continue)
I'm not saying that finding another way of independent transportation is futile to stop Petroleum use or going to never work.
Far from it...

But at this point there is no incentive, they are doing this in a horrible fashion, and the technology is not viable yet.
There is no mad rush to install EV charging stations everywhere like there were for gas stations. It's just not happening.

Yes, and there are other politics involved. With Biden's son's links to the Chinese under surveillance, Joe's handlers and the media now have him opposed to Chinese transactions, which is a deflection from Hunter's role in Metabiota, an organization for the collection of dangerous viruses, the same ones that were experimented upon in Chinese communist gain-of-function labs. Getting amnesia about SARS2 origins is not an option for IQs above 80 here.

This morning there is a WSJ article in the three-dimensional paper that is apparently not in cyberspace, about China's role and decreased EV interest. If readers have access to the actual 3D article, they can compare with this one:

Biden to Limit China's Role

MSN

 

[badger2]

https://wsj.com/business/autos/biden-to-limit-chinese-role-in-us-ev-market-0fea206b

 

[badger2]

Biden to Limit Chinese Role in U.S. EV Market

The Biden administration is expected to release tax credit rules on Friday that could shape the American market for electric vehicles.

wsj.com

 

[badger2]

On the other hand, a la Boebert, et al, Biden's handlers do want other sources than Chinese lithium, the $7,500 comes with a stipulation, which in no way should be construed as a Biden idea.

 

[JohnDB]

UK has a problem with sunshine. All of badger2's power tools are solar-recharge though these are for light work.

Yes, and there are other politics involved. With Biden's son's links to the Chinese under surveillance, Joe's handlers and the media now have him opposed to Chinese transactions, which is a deflection from Hunter's role in Metabiota, an organization for the collection of dangerous viruses, the same ones that were experimented upon in Chinese communist gain-of-function labs. Getting amnesia about SARS2 origins is not an option for IQs above 80 here.

This morning there is a WSJ article in the three-dimensional paper that is apparently not in cyberspace, about China's role and decreased EV interest. If readers have access to the actual 3D article, they can compare with this one:

Biden to Limit China's Role

MSN

One of the main reasons for a desire to move away from Petroleum usage is not environmental issues but economic ones.

The middle east and Russia are the two largest suppliers of Petroleum products. None of them have ever been known for altruism either on the world stage in human history....in fact just the opposite.
Where Western Society has had their moral failings they also have been great leaders in altruistic endeavors and leaders in science and technologies for Healthcare, food production, communication, power and education resources.

And Russia as well as many Middle Eastern countries have focused their power on some of the worst aspects of human behavior. Mostly conquering, terrorizing, and subjugation of anyone they could. Even treating their own citizens to the point where the rest of the world decries "human rights violations"

So finding a way to remove their capability of gaining funding for their ambitions is a "twofer" where the world is a little safer and cleaner all at the same time.

And again I reiterate....it's not energy that is desired. It is sufficient amounts of cheap energy. Price per kilowatt is the thing and not all costs are financial. And Petroleum is becoming more expensive in the non-financial realm.

 

[badger2]

One of the main reasons for a desire to move away from Petroleum usage is not environmental issues but economic ones.

The middle east and Russia are the two largest suppliers of Petroleum products. None of them have ever been known for altruism either on the world stage in human history....in fact just the opposite.
Where Western Society has had their moral failings they also have been great leaders in altruistic endeavors and leaders in science and technologies for Healthcare, food production, communication, power and education resources.

And Russia as well as many Middle Eastern countries have focused their power on some of the worst aspects of human behavior. Mostly conquering, terrorizing, and subjugation of anyone they could. Even treating their own citizens to the point where the rest of the world decries "human rights violations"

So finding a way to remove their capability of gaining funding for their ambitions is a "twofer" where the world is a little safer and cleaner all at the same time.

And again I reiterate....it's not energy that is desired. It is sufficient amounts of cheap energy. Price per kilowatt is the thing and not all costs are financial. And Petroleum is becoming more expensive in the non-financial realm.

Some good points. Chinese avarice is built into their genome, the eventual plan being to (buy [italics]) the Russian Far East and United States. Conversely, ev battery-swapping is a formidable idea to ponder. Price per kw compares with the youtube video showing the human moving at ~ 8mph on a level surface with no battery, only a motor and solar panel.

 

[JohnDB]

Some good points. Chinese avarice is built into their genome, the eventual plan being to (buy [italics]) the Russian Far East and United States. Conversely, ev battery-swapping is a formidable idea to ponder. Price per kw compares with the youtube video showing the human moving at ~ 8mph on a level surface with no battery, only a motor and solar panel.

The weight of batteries versus the power they produce is still much more substantial than the weight versus the power produced by diesel or gasoline.

There are some gains when switching from ICE to an electric motor...but not in anyway nearly enough to make up for the weight of the batteries.

And your battery swapping concept would work as a subscription service...but would still be fraught with issues (primarily logistics and shipping...petroleum products move by low cost pipeline)