Minimum wage increases, jobs decrease

[usmbguest5318]

He loves cliches, it seems to work for him.

Oh. I can't imagine for whom it works. Truly, I cannot, but I'm quite sure I don't care to engage with them either.

 

[Papageorgio]

He loves cliches, it seems to work for him.

Oh. I can't imagine for whom it works. Truly, I cannot, but I'm quite sure I don't care to engage with them either.

Good for you! Lol!

 

[danielpalos]

reading comprehension issues as well; you must be on the right.

the point is, our poverty guidelines already fix a Standard of living in our Republic. Simply ensuring that "tide rises, can ensure all boats lift".

Poverty Guidelines

The point is that poverty does not do that.

maybe not in right wing fantasy, but our social welfare system does improve our standard of living. it is a self-evident truth.

I don't have a problem with accepting that our social welfare system improves impoverished people's standard of living. What I'm saying is that the standard of living called poverty is below what is the nation's standard of living.

There are some self evident truths, and some of them even manifest themselves to even the biggest dullards among us. The thing you've pontificated as such, though it's plausibly true, is not self evident. It only seems self evident because there isn't any place that uses a different model; thus you've not had the chance to see it work any other way. Unfortunately, social well being doesn't work quite the same as star gazing.

It is about equal protection of the law.

Oh, screw it....You keep tossing out your "cliched buzz phrases" - first it was "standard of living in our republic" and "rising tides," then it was "social welfare system," most recently it's "equal protection of the law" - and not once have you actually expounded upon your thoughts so that it's clear what the hell you think you mean. So, I'm done; I'm done trying to encourage you to write something that's clear, precise, contextually relevant, etc. so that we can have an actual substantive discussion. Don't bother replying again because I don't any longer care enough to continue this line of conversation with you. I'm okay with that, and hopefully you can be too.

Only because you are too busy pontificating. Employment is at-will. California is an at-will employment State. Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation purposes is the goal.

Solving for simple poverty on an at-will basis is the economic objective.

 

[Winston]

You should probably explain what you think you mean more clearly. From where I'm sitting, I know that direct materials and direct labor are the two primary inputs to COGs/COGS, and both are variable costs. As such an increase in one, while holding the other constant, will have the same impact as will increasing the other and holding the former constant, provided the increase is the same.

• DM: 10 --> 15
  DL: 5 --> 5
  20 -->20
  
  Do the same thing but hold DM constant and increase DL by 5 and COGs is still $20. There's no demand side difference. $20 is $20 to the customer.

Obviously, the NFL analogy was good enough that you understand precisely what I meant when it comes to the problem of managing to market expectations. And I am sorry that you want to confine the conversation to minimum wage workers at small businesses. That seems rather unfortunate considering, first, that the majority of minimum wage workers work for companies with a hundred employees or more. And second, that the majority of small businesses support an increase in the minimum wage.

Now, to why the small business owner supports the minimum wage because of the demand side of the MACROECONOMIC equation, not Micro. As well as to why he is not concerned about the supply side.

The supply side is easy. If the small business owner does not have minimum wage employees, and most of them don't, he doesn't care if that minimum wage goes up. It does not hurt him. Matter of fact, if the owner knows his Econ, he knows that minimum wage increases usually lead to wage compression that could actually improve his ability to attract mid-level salary employees.

Now on the demand side it is easy. Most small business owners don't sell their product or provide a service to other small business owners. Sure, some do, but even those individuals depend upon the "demand" of their customers customers. Most of them sell their products or services to consumers like Joe Sixpack, some of them even sell products to minimum wage workers. An increase in income from a minimum wage increase could fuel an increase in DEMAND for the small business owner's product or service.

 

[danielpalos]

Good capitalists can make like Henry Ford!

That is one opinion, but I wouldn't make that over generalization since every business is different and has its own set of circumstances.

Good Capitalists get capital results and do not make, social excuses.

If you claim so, it seems to work in your narrow view of the world, the rest of us deal with the real world.

sounds like nothing but social excuses.

No excuse, like I said the real world doesn't operate the way you claim. I have been there and done it.

Good capitalists can make like Henry Ford! He was there and did it.

 

[Papageorgio]

That is one opinion, but I wouldn't make that over generalization since every business is different and has its own set of circumstances.

Good Capitalists get capital results and do not make, social excuses.

If you claim so, it seems to work in your narrow view of the world, the rest of us deal with the real world.

sounds like nothing but social excuses.

No excuse, like I said the real world doesn't operate the way you claim. I have been there and done it.

Good capitalists can make like Henry Ford! He was there and did it.

One man did it. One out of millions and millions and he did it over 100 years ago, under different circumstances. So, you stay stuck on your silly one liner.

 

[danielpalos]

Good Capitalists get capital results and do not make, social excuses.

If you claim so, it seems to work in your narrow view of the world, the rest of us deal with the real world.

sounds like nothing but social excuses.

No excuse, like I said the real world doesn't operate the way you claim. I have been there and done it.

Good capitalists can make like Henry Ford! He was there and did it.

One man did it. One out of millions and millions and he did it over 100 years ago, under different circumstances. So, you stay stuck on your silly one liner.

Yet, the right wing claims being poor is the entire fault of the poor as to why they can't do it.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I am sorry that you want to confine the conversation to minimum wage workers at small businesses

I don't want to confine the conversation. I want only to not be subject to unannounced topic shifts.

At the point you joined the line of which I was a part, the context was small businesses, so I was considering your comments in terms of that theme. When I saw you introduce public company concerns -- meeting Street expectations rather than maximizing profit -- to a line themed (at that time) on small business, and very small ones at that, I tried to correlate your comments in that regard to the (then current) small business context and, frankly, I didn't see any.

because of the demand side of the MACROECONOMIC equation, not Micro.

Gotcha. TY.

the majority of minimum wage workers work for companies with a hundred employees or more.

No question about that.

If the small business owner does not have minimum wage employees, and most of them don't

In comparison to the prior assertion with which I take no exception, I'm less confident this one is so; however, my willingness to concur with you isn't rock solid because the source I can cite that refutes the assertion is one that, like many intransigently partisan ones, doesn't make readily accessible the study they conducted.and that contains the information that contradicts your claim. It's not that I think they are right or wrong, it's that I know I should check to see how they got to their finding and I cannot.

FWIW, here's the counterclaim to which I refer:

In a recent analysis, the Employment Policies Institute used this data to determine the size of a typical minimum-wage employer. Contrary to the rhetoric of organized labor and its allies, the vast majority of people earning the minimum wage aren’t working at large corporations with 1,000 or more employees. Roughly half the minimum-wage workforce is employed at businesses with fewer than 100 employees, and 40% are at very small businesses with fewer than 50 employees.

The results are similar even if you follow the left’s cue and broaden the analysis from minimum wage employees earning $7.25 an hour to “low-wage” employees earning $10 an hour or less: 46% still work for businesses with 100 or fewer employees.​

Those figures could as well be representationally faithful or not.

the majority of small businesses support an increase in the minimum wage.

That seems to be so, at least based on this:



I had no trouble finding the root study for it and was very pleasantly surprised to see the ASBC disclosed their survey methodology. They could have disclosed more about their approach, but what they have shared is confidence inspiring. That they shared something at all is a plus over the EPI which I know is "all about" advocacy for its paying clients.

An increase in income from a minimum wage increase could fuel an increase in DEMAND for the small business owner's product or service.

Depending on the company's customer base, it likely would.

 

[Papageorgio]

If you claim so, it seems to work in your narrow view of the world, the rest of us deal with the real world.

sounds like nothing but social excuses.

No excuse, like I said the real world doesn't operate the way you claim. I have been there and done it.

Good capitalists can make like Henry Ford! He was there and did it.

One man did it. One out of millions and millions and he did it over 100 years ago, under different circumstances. So, you stay stuck on your silly one liner.

Yet, the right wing claims being poor is the entire fault of the poor as to why they can't do it.

Where did that come from, you get your butt kicked then you completely fold and run to the next goal post. Lol!