Mom's Demand Action- no more dead children

[FA_Q2]

It worked.

Did it?

Gun Control - Just Facts
Oh! I guess not!

Are you saying that mass murders of school children by madmen are still occurring in Britain despite the gun bans? Because I don't think that is true.

There are more guns being smuggled in from Serbia and also an ever-increasing population from immigration from several non-British countries, an invasion that is very upsetting to the Britons, so you'd expect more crime with all that going on.

You don't have any graph from Australia; Australians are apparently very satisfied in general with the better protection from howling madmen their laws give. "Howling mad" is exactly what the latest Aussie madman was, in Tasmania -- he howled in joy and delight that "It was so fun! It was so fun" when on trial for shooting 35 small children in a school and kept laughing hilariously.

Not a well man......

That will happen a time or two more here in America and then they'll finally ban those assault rifles and high-capacity magazines, I think. And hopefully the public will become more suspicious and disapproving of the very dubious men who collect large numbers of guns in their homes.

I am stating, and the facts agree, that gun bans in England have not amounted to saving lives. I know that you want to qualify that by saying no one has dies in this way or in that manner but such qualifications are simply there to hide the reality that facts don't agree with your assertions. You have claimed that mass murders have decreased yet no evidence to reinforce that claim. you should start there at least. Post some actual data.

On top of that, even if mass murders have declined, murders are up. So, have we saved lives or have we just saved you from having to hear about it in the television because they are occurring one at a time more frequently and not all at once. Gun control does not work. The facts show it.

 

[Desperado]

How about moms demand that people convicted of a crime and sentenced to prison serve their full term?

 

[martybegan]

The only way to do that is to eliminate human nature. good luck with that.

Australia and Britain had good luck with that --- they eliminated "human nature" by eliminating guns, to stop horrific madmen school shootings. For some reason they always go after small children in those two countries, too.

It worked.

Considering assualts have gone up in both countries because the gobs now know thier vicitms are unarmed, its a pyrhic victory at best.

They also don't have the 2nd amendment. We do.

 

[Againsheila]

All right, where are the moms to stop abortions for their grandchildren?

Well, the smart ones are probably in a thread about abortion.

THIS thread is about mothers working to stop the shooting deaths of children. There will always be those who throw up their hands and whine that there's nothing to be done. We can all be thankful that no one said that about, oh, say, driving deaths, alcohol, drugs, etc.

We could just stand around and say nothing will save every life but my hope is that intelligent and caring Americans will join these women.

NONE of the proposed laws would have prevented the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school. Why pass laws for no reason other than fear? That's how we ended up with the TSA.

 

[Circe]

NONE of the proposed laws would have prevented the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school. Why pass laws for no reason other than fear? That's how we ended up with the TSA.

That last is actually a good argument. The TSA is a pretty terrible institution: forces everyone to be molested and looked at naked or you can't fly. It's incredibly wrong.

I think that's incorrect about Sandy Hook, though. If the assault rifle ban had continued in effect, Adam Lanza would not have shot all those children with his AR-15 and high-capacity magazines. Nor would James Holmes or so many others. They presumably would not have been able to kill so many at once: assault rifles are FOR killing a lot of people at once, and as we all can see, they do work to do that.

I want them banned entirely. I'd like to see confiscation or buyback of all assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Usually the latter jam --- the Oregon Mall shooter, Holmes, others --- but not always. Apparently Adam Lanza's worked real good. Mass people killer guns don't need to be circulating in this society.

I am looking forward to a woman's movement like MADD that targets these crazy guns and the gun nuts who want to fantasize or actually do killings of lots of people at once. I would definitely support banning and getting rid of these bad guns. We seriously need better law and order in this country or we'll end up like Mexico.

 

[Samson]

Gun laws don't save kids.

Yeah, but yammering on about it distracts the lemmings from the horrendous leadership record of a failed president.

 

[martybegan]

NONE of the proposed laws would have prevented the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school. Why pass laws for no reason other than fear? That's how we ended up with the TSA.

That last is actually a good argument. The TSA is a pretty terrible institution: forces everyone to be molested and looked at naked or you can't fly. It's incredibly wrong.

I think that's incorrect about Sandy Hook, though. If the assault rifle ban had continued in effect, Adam Lanza would not have shot all those children with his AR-15 and high-capacity magazines. Nor would James Holmes or so many others. They presumably would not have been able to kill so many at once: assault rifles are FOR killing a lot of people at once, and as we all can see, they do work to do that.

I want them banned entirely. I'd like to see confiscation or buyback of all assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Usually the latter jam --- the Oregon Mall shooter, Holmes, others --- but not always. Apparently Adam Lanza's worked real good. Mass people killer guns don't need to be circulating in this society.

I am looking forward to a woman's movement like MADD that targets these crazy guns and the gun nuts who want to fantasize or actually do killings of lots of people at once. I would definitely support banning and getting rid of these bad guns. We seriously need better law and order in this country or we'll end up like Mexico.

Considering the cops took 10-20 minutes to show up, and no one in the school was armed, lanza could have used revolvers with quickloads and accomplished the same thing.

And of course, if they are banned, the police would face the SAME ban. The police are not the military and should not be armed any better than other law abiding citizens. At most, they would only have access to them on duty, with them locked in armories. When they went home they would have to carry whatever is allowed to other civilians.

The only way you would get what you want would be to repeal the 2nd amendment. good luck with that.

 

[Againsheila]

NONE of the proposed laws would have prevented the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school. Why pass laws for no reason other than fear? That's how we ended up with the TSA.

That last is actually a good argument. The TSA is a pretty terrible institution: forces everyone to be molested and looked at naked or you can't fly. It's incredibly wrong.

I think that's incorrect about Sandy Hook, though. If the assault rifle ban had continued in effect, Adam Lanza would not have shot all those children with his AR-15 and high-capacity magazines. Nor would James Holmes or so many others. They presumably would not have been able to kill so many at once: assault rifles are FOR killing a lot of people at once, and as we all can see, they do work to do that.

I want them banned entirely. I'd like to see confiscation or buyback of all assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Usually the latter jam --- the Oregon Mall shooter, Holmes, others --- but not always. Apparently Adam Lanza's worked real good. Mass people killer guns don't need to be circulating in this society.

I am looking forward to a woman's movement like MADD that targets these crazy guns and the gun nuts who want to fantasize or actually do killings of lots of people at once. I would definitely support banning and getting rid of these bad guns. We seriously need better law and order in this country or we'll end up like Mexico.

Adam Lanza didn't shoot all those kids with an AR 15. The AR 15 never made it out of the truck. He shot those kids with 4 pistols.

 

[Intense]

Now that's a link I'd really love to read.



I haven't hear of anyone "going after legal gun owners". Another link Id like to see.

I haven't hear of anyone "going after legal gun owners". Another link Id like to see.

Are you unaware of your own actions? Those points target legal gun owners directly. Why exactly did you choose the CDZ for this Thread? Along with civil discourse, a level of honesty is required here. Are we on the same page here? Is there a concern for Constitutionally Recognized and Protected Natural Rights here? I'm curious. I'm for civil discussion and debate. Again, I hope we are on the same page here.

If it is unconstitutional for us to require background checks on all guns sales, why is it not unconstitutional for a licensed dealer to require background checks, which is the law right now? Secondly, why do gun advocates, who are constantly claiming that something is unconstitutional, not repect and acknowledge that the Constitution gives the authority to determine what is constitutional, to the Supreme Court?

It wasn't the Constitution that gave the Court that Power, it was Marbury V.S. Madison. Judicial Review is a good thing. Connecting the dots sometimes needs to be done. Creating the Dots that need to be connected, is the Roll of Congress either through legislation or amendment. That said, Common Law should Never stray so far from reason that one needs a divining stick to navigate through it.

Concerning clearing Gun Purchases through instant background checks, no argument there. National Registry where gun owners are exposed to public lists being published, with name and address? You put retired Law Enforcement, Armed Victims of previous crimes including rape and assault, people in hiding from Loons, Stalkers, at risk. Anyone caught violating a trust like that should be instantly fired and lose all government pension. You have politicized a vetting process putting lives at risk.

 

[Intense]

NONE of the proposed laws would have prevented the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school. Why pass laws for no reason other than fear? That's how we ended up with the TSA.

That last is actually a good argument. The TSA is a pretty terrible institution: forces everyone to be molested and looked at naked or you can't fly. It's incredibly wrong.

I think that's incorrect about Sandy Hook, though. If the assault rifle ban had continued in effect, Adam Lanza would not have shot all those children with his AR-15 and high-capacity magazines. Nor would James Holmes or so many others. They presumably would not have been able to kill so many at once: assault rifles are FOR killing a lot of people at once, and as we all can see, they do work to do that.

I want them banned entirely. I'd like to see confiscation or buyback of all assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Usually the latter jam --- the Oregon Mall shooter, Holmes, others --- but not always. Apparently Adam Lanza's worked real good. Mass people killer guns don't need to be circulating in this society.

I am looking forward to a woman's movement like MADD that targets these crazy guns and the gun nuts who want to fantasize or actually do killings of lots of people at once. I would definitely support banning and getting rid of these bad guns. We seriously need better law and order in this country or we'll end up like Mexico.

Adam Lanza didn't shoot all those kids with an AR 15. The AR 15 never made it out of the truck. He shot those kids with 4 pistols.

There are contradicting reports on that. Sadly, it's tough deciding who to trust.

 

[jtpr312]

Gun laws don't save kids.

Yeah, but yammering on about it distracts the lemmings from the horrendous leadership record of a failed president.

Too true

 

[Ernie S.]

NONE of the proposed laws would have prevented the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school. Why pass laws for no reason other than fear? That's how we ended up with the TSA.

That last is actually a good argument. The TSA is a pretty terrible institution: forces everyone to be molested and looked at naked or you can't fly. It's incredibly wrong.

I think that's incorrect about Sandy Hook, though. If the assault rifle ban had continued in effect, Adam Lanza would not have shot all those children with his AR-15 and high-capacity magazines. Nor would James Holmes or so many others. They presumably would not have been able to kill so many at once: assault rifles are FOR killing a lot of people at once, and as we all can see, they do work to do that.

I want them banned entirely. I'd like to see confiscation or buyback of all assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Usually the latter jam --- the Oregon Mall shooter, Holmes, others --- but not always. Apparently Adam Lanza's worked real good. Mass people killer guns don't need to be circulating in this society.

I am looking forward to a woman's movement like MADD that targets these crazy guns and the gun nuts who want to fantasize or actually do killings of lots of people at once. I would definitely support banning and getting rid of these bad guns. We seriously need better law and order in this country or we'll end up like Mexico.

Suppose Adam Lanza had 6 10 round magazines instead of 2 30's. Someone unfamiliar with the weapon could change mags in 5 seconds, an expert, maybe 2 seconds at most. Since the first responders were 5 minutes away and there was no armed resistance, the additional 8 to 20 seconds he would have spent reloading was insignificant.
Not one single life would have been saved. However, if there had been a guidance councilor, assistant principal or secretary in the main office with their own AR-15 and trained in its use, it's very likely there would have been only one death at Sandy Hook Elementary School that day.
Of course, my argument is logical, not emotional, so you will reject it, likely crying about not wanting to turn schools into "prisons" or "armed camps"
You really have no interest in saving lives. You just want to rid the world of scary black guns.

 

[AmyNation]

1 million moms is an extreme religious conservative group who spends all day being offended by everything happening around them. They have zero credibility to demand anything from anyone.

 

[Circe]

"Adam Lanza didn't shoot all those kids with an AR 15. The AR 15 never made it out of the truck. He shot those kids with 4 pistols."

There are contradicting reports on that. Sadly, it's tough deciding who to trust.

It's not tough for me: the police said Adam Lanza shot all the kids with the AR-15, as many as 11 bullets per head. I figure the police probably know. You can look it up anywhere.

 

[PaulS1950]

A criminal killed all those kids. He happened to be mentally ill but he was a criminal before he shot those kids and faculty members.
He was not a typical gamer, collector, or even a legal gun owner. It was against the law for him to have those weapons in his possession. It was against the law for him to take those weapons on school grounds, and it is against the law to commit murder.

Now, tell me again how passing a law is going to affect the criminal use of guns?

The gun he used makes no difference - it is a tool. The gun he used was a target version of an AR-15 or derivitive. His mother shot targets with it. He used a handgun to kill his mother and then got to the target rifle and used it to kill more people.
Criminals use guns to kill people. Law abiding citizen save 100000 lives for every one taken by a criminal. You want to take the guns away that allow over 2,000,000 people to save lives and stop criminals every year so that the criminals can add 2,000,000 new victims to the list of dead by guns.

Get rid of the criminals and the gun violence goes away. It is easier to get rid of the criminals than it is to get rid of 300,000,000 guns and only getting rid of the criminals will solve the violence.

 

[Circe]

A criminal killed all those kids. He happened to be mentally ill but he was a criminal before he shot those kids and faculty members.
He was not a typical gamer, collector, or even a legal gun owner. It was against the law for him to have those weapons in his possession. It was against the law for him to take those weapons on school grounds, and it is against the law to commit murder.

You are wrong on nearly every point! Adam Lanza was not a criminal AT ALL --- he had never been involved with the law, and he was 20. He was perfectly legal to own those guns and he had often shot them at the range with his mother and brother. You say he was a criminal, but where is your evidence for that?? Lanza was never arrested, never did anything criminal in his life before he went to the school!

He was certainly a typical gamer: he played violent video games like they all did, like James Holmes did and costumed to match during his shooting spree. There's another gun nut who NEVER came to the attention of the police, and was not a criminal.

Until the moment they started shooting in the school or in the movie theater, both Adam Lanza and James Holmes were what you call "good guys."

But gun nuts are never, never good guys. Gun nuts are bombs just waiting to go off. That's why they collect guns: they WANT to go off and shoot a lot of people. They're hoping for an opportunity.

 

[martybegan]

A criminal killed all those kids. He happened to be mentally ill but he was a criminal before he shot those kids and faculty members.
He was not a typical gamer, collector, or even a legal gun owner. It was against the law for him to have those weapons in his possession. It was against the law for him to take those weapons on school grounds, and it is against the law to commit murder.

You are wrong on nearly every point! Adam Lanza was not a criminal AT ALL --- he had never been involved with the law, and he was 20. He was perfectly legal to own those guns and he had often shot them at the range with his mother and brother. You say he was a criminal, but where is your evidence for that?? Lanza was never arrested, never did anything criminal in his life before he went to the school!

He was certainly a typical gamer: he played violent video games like they all did, like James Holmes did and costumed to match during his shooting spree. There's another gun nut who NEVER came to the attention of the police, and was not a criminal.

Until the moment they started shooting in the school or in the movie theater, both Adam Lanza and James Holmes were what you call "good guys."

But gun nuts are never, never good guys. Gun nuts are bombs just waiting to go off. That's why they collect guns: they WANT to go off and shoot a lot of people. They're hoping for an opportunity.

Wasnt he a criminal the second he shot his mother?

 

[Circe]

Wasnt he a criminal the second he shot his mother?

Yes, well, you might have a point there.

 

[martybegan]

Wasnt he a criminal the second he shot his mother?

Yes, well, you might have a point there.

The other point is, even if we ban "assault rifles" Lanza could have done the same thing he did at that school with a pair of revolvers and quick loaders, as it took the police over 10+ minutes to arrive at the school.

Any "assualt weapon" ban would not have prevented sandy hook.

 

[Circe]

Wasnt he a criminal the second he shot his mother?

Yes, well, you might have a point there.

The other point is, even if we ban "assault rifles" Lanza could have done the same thing he did at that school with a pair of revolvers and quick loaders, as it took the police over 10+ minutes to arrive at the school.

Any "assualt weapon" ban would not have prevented sandy hook.

I want them illegal.

People buy rifles meant to kill dozens of people at once? In America? And high-capacity magazines to kill a hundred at a time? I want that illegal. That's just basically evil. There's no reasonable defense of that kind of thinking.

And the assault rifle and high-capacity magazine has PLAINLY become the default crazy-weapon. It has to go.