Money, the root of all good?

[bripat9643]

And you accuse initforme of regurgitating? You never say anything new.

Businesses hardly ever operate for the good of mankind, if the overall level of prosperity ever increases it's an unintended side effect. It's only because we had power over the captains of industry that we are not still living in polluted company towns being paid squat and owing our souls to the company store. That's the vision capitalism had for America.

Actually they DO operate for the good of mankind...and to profit for the sweat of their brow...their EFFORT, their RISK for doing so. WHOM is government, (OR YOU, for that matter) dictating from on high telling them WHY and HOW they MUST be in business?

Pretty ARROGANT...YOU are.

The rights and well being of the people must always be weighed against the wants of the individual, there is no absolute right to profit if you are producing misery.

You have the absolute right to keep whatever you have obtained through voluntary exchange with others. That includes profit.

 

[The T]

And you accuse initforme of regurgitating? You never say anything new.

Businesses hardly ever operate for the good of mankind, if the overall level of prosperity ever increases it's an unintended side effect. It's only because we had power over the captains of industry that we are not still living in polluted company towns being paid squat and owing our souls to the company store. That's the vision capitalism had for America.

Actually they DO operate for the good of mankind...and to profit for the sweat of their brow...their EFFORT, their RISK for doing so. WHOM is government, (OR YOU, for that matter) dictating from on high telling them WHY and HOW they MUST be in business?

Pretty ARROGANT...YOU are.

The rights and well being of the people must always be weighed against the wants of the individual, there is no absolute right to profit if you are producing misery.

THIS is where YOU go wrong. The Founders when they crafted the Constitution and FOUGHT a tyrant to achieve it...would disagree. The LIBERTY of the individual was paramount. YOU are a Socialist. Admit it.

*FAIL*

 

[Missouri_Mike]

The topic at hand is comes from 1 Timothy 6

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Unquote

This is a valid philosophical question worthy of discussion.

You seem to feel the government is the root of all evil.

This is not a valid philosophical question.

That is a question of your sanity.

I'm not very impressed with your philosophical abilities so far. I am certainly less impressed with your ability to think this through and come up with an educated and accurate assessment of the situation. Which is pretty much the basis of philosophy.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

You seem to think this only applies to individuals and not government.

Government is at the base of society nothing more than the root of evil. Think about it. It's how the people are brought into compliance for the benefit of those in power. It's why 213 years ago a document was written that kept that government in check, it's also the very reason throughout that history those in the government have done their best to erode those small, limited government principals.

Were that true, anarchy would be the most equitable and prosperous way for humans to live, Somalia says you are wrong.

Actually Somalia tells me I'm correct, you just can't see it yet. There are some very basic rules of conduct that need to be in place. It's why we had the 1776 form of government and the 1778 form that had a little more power but not much. Just enough to keep people free from both government and predators. The criminals will always be around and therefore you need a solid base of what the government will do in order to keep them at bay. With the people's approval of course.

I'm not for chaos but for limited government intervention in decisions I should be making. My retirement, car choice, power choice and healthcare should not be determined by government. Those are decisions I get to make. Military operations I'm willing to let the military decide. Keep the country from being over run and I'm happy. The rest I can do on my own.

 

[The T]

Actually they DO operate for the good of mankind...and to profit for the sweat of their brow...their EFFORT, their RISK for doing so. WHOM is government, (OR YOU, for that matter) dictating from on high telling them WHY and HOW they MUST be in business?

Pretty ARROGANT...YOU are.

The rights and well being of the people must always be weighed against the wants of the individual, there is no absolute right to profit if you are producing misery.

You have the absolute right to keep whatever you have obtained through voluntary exchange with others. That includes profit.

Precisely. Free market...by contract between INDIVIDUALS. Government has NO say in the matter. Free exchange. LIBERTY.

 

[occupied]

Actually they DO operate for the good of mankind...and to profit for the sweat of their brow...their EFFORT, their RISK for doing so. WHOM is government, (OR YOU, for that matter) dictating from on high telling them WHY and HOW they MUST be in business?

Pretty ARROGANT...YOU are.

The rights and well being of the people must always be weighed against the wants of the individual, there is no absolute right to profit if you are producing misery.

You have the absolute right to keep whatever you have obtained through voluntary exchange with others. That includes profit.

That word "voluntary" is never absolute either, there's a million ways to pressure, extort, bribe, steal, con, etc. to get what you want and some like you seem to like a profit made from pain best of all.

 

[The T]

I'm not very impressed with your philosophical abilities so far. I am certainly less impressed with your ability to think this through and come up with an educated and accurate assessment of the situation. Which is pretty much the basis of philosophy.



You seem to think this only applies to individuals and not government.

Government is at the base of society nothing more than the root of evil. Think about it. It's how the people are brought into compliance for the benefit of those in power. It's why 213 years ago a document was written that kept that government in check, it's also the very reason throughout that history those in the government have done their best to erode those small, limited government principals.

Were that true, anarchy would be the most equitable and prosperous way for humans to live, Somalia says you are wrong.

Actually Somalia tells me I'm correct, you just can't see it yet. There are some very basic rules of conduct that need to be in place. It's why we had the 1776 form of government and the 1778 form that had a little more power but not much. Just enough to keep people free from both government and predators. The criminals will always be around and therefore you need a solid base of what the government will do in order to keep them at bay. With the people's approval of course.

I'm not for chaos but for limited government intervention in decisions I should be making. My retirement, car choice, power choice and healthcare should not be determined by government. Those are decisions I get to make. Military operations I'm willing to let the military decide. Keep the country from being over run and I'm happy. The rest I can do on my own.

Bravo. PATRIOT. Liberty.

 

[The T]

The rights and well being of the people must always be weighed against the wants of the individual, there is no absolute right to profit if you are producing misery.

You have the absolute right to keep whatever you have obtained through voluntary exchange with others. That includes profit.

That word "voluntary" is never absolute either, there's a million ways to pressure, extort, bribe, steal, con, etc. to get what you want and some like you seem to like a profit made from pain best of all.

No. LIBERTY of the INDIVIDUAL is an ABSOLUTE. Constitution guarantees it. TRY AGAIN.

*FAIL AGAIN*

 

[Missouri_Mike]

And you accuse initforme of regurgitating? You never say anything new.

Businesses hardly ever operate for the good of mankind, if the overall level of prosperity ever increases it's an unintended side effect. It's only because we had power over the captains of industry that we are not still living in polluted company towns being paid squat and owing our souls to the company store. That's the vision capitalism had for America.

Actually they DO operate for the good of mankind...and to profit for the sweat of their brow...their EFFORT, their RISK for doing so. WHOM is government, (OR YOU, for that matter) dictating from on high telling them WHY and HOW they MUST be in business?

Pretty ARROGANT...YOU are.

The rights and well being of the people must always be weighed against the wants of the individual, there is no absolute right to profit if you are producing misery.

Who exactly is producing misery these days?

Is it Apple making phones or the government regulating the phone market?

Facebook or the government wanting your information?

Is a healthcare company causing you misery or is it obiecare?

Is your next job or raise being held back by your company or government rules to what they must provide?

Is your life really getting better from these regulations or does it just make you feel better?

 

[pvsi]

“So you think that money is the root of all evil?” said Francisco d’Anconia. “Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange,

Son, let me give you a quick lesson: these terms are being thrown out to the public to be used as distractions, but American founding fathers have said it best, perhaps you can take a clue why the establishment now teaches us that they were slave owners while international bankers are great businessmen and creators of wealth yes?

Thomas Jefferson
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The
issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

Andrew Jackson
"If Congress has the right [it doesn't] to issue paper money [currency], it was given to them to be used by...[the government] and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations" — President Andrew Jackson, Vetoed Bank Bill of 1836

James Madison
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

I think this video does a good job at explaining what the root of all evil is, although there are many on internet:

 

[The T]

“So you think that money is the root of all evil?” said Francisco d’Anconia. “Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange,

Son, let me give you a quick lesson: these terms are being thrown out to the public to be used as distractions, but American founding fathers have said it best, perhaps you can take a clue why the establishment now teaches us that they were slave owners while international bankers are great businessmen and creators of wealth yes?

Thomas Jefferson
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The
issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

Andrew Jackson
"If Congress has the right [it doesn't] to issue paper money [currency], it was given to them to be used by...[the government] and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations" — President Andrew Jackson, Vetoed Bank Bill of 1836

James Madison
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

And GUESS whom has been manipulating it via the FEDERAL RESERVE that the Founders opted NOT to have? And guess when it was enacted? Under WILSON and the age of PROGRESSIVES over 100 years ago. HOW did WE ever survive without it? Hmm?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

The rights and well being of the people must always be weighed against the wants of the individual, there is no absolute right to profit if you are producing misery.

You have the absolute right to keep whatever you have obtained through voluntary exchange with others. That includes profit.

That word "voluntary" is never absolute either, there's a million ways to pressure, extort, bribe, steal, con, etc. to get what you want and some like you seem to like a profit made from pain best of all.

Who has the pressure to force you into those situations? Government, the only people that can force you to take what they are offering. No options, no escape and they have the law on their side.

320 million people in this country to choose from in doing business with and only one that demands you do it or go to jail.

 

[occupied]

I'm not very impressed with your philosophical abilities so far. I am certainly less impressed with your ability to think this through and come up with an educated and accurate assessment of the situation. Which is pretty much the basis of philosophy.



You seem to think this only applies to individuals and not government.

Government is at the base of society nothing more than the root of evil. Think about it. It's how the people are brought into compliance for the benefit of those in power. It's why 213 years ago a document was written that kept that government in check, it's also the very reason throughout that history those in the government have done their best to erode those small, limited government principals.

Were that true, anarchy would be the most equitable and prosperous way for humans to live, Somalia says you are wrong.

Actually Somalia tells me I'm correct, you just can't see it yet. There are some very basic rules of conduct that need to be in place. It's why we had the 1776 form of government and the 1778 form that had a little more power but not much. Just enough to keep people free from both government and predators. The criminals will always be around and therefore you need a solid base of what the government will do in order to keep them at bay. With the people's approval of course.

I'm not for chaos but for limited government intervention in decisions I should be making. My retirement, car choice, power choice and healthcare should not be determined by government. Those are decisions I get to make. Military operations I'm willing to let the military decide. Keep the country from being over run and I'm happy. The rest I can do on my own.

There's more people than you living on this shitball, to keep people from just killing each other over stupid shit, the government has to make some rules to protect us from people who can't see any further than their own damned selfish wants.

We now return to the topic.

The want of money makes the government dishonest just like any other large organization that handles and covets money, yet conservatives seem to have trouble transferring their distrust to any other concentration of wealth and power and the corruption it brings.

 

[The T]

Were that true, anarchy would be the most equitable and prosperous way for humans to live, Somalia says you are wrong.

Actually Somalia tells me I'm correct, you just can't see it yet. There are some very basic rules of conduct that need to be in place. It's why we had the 1776 form of government and the 1778 form that had a little more power but not much. Just enough to keep people free from both government and predators. The criminals will always be around and therefore you need a solid base of what the government will do in order to keep them at bay. With the people's approval of course.

I'm not for chaos but for limited government intervention in decisions I should be making. My retirement, car choice, power choice and healthcare should not be determined by government. Those are decisions I get to make. Military operations I'm willing to let the military decide. Keep the country from being over run and I'm happy. The rest I can do on my own.

There's more people than you living on this shitball, to keep people from just killing each other over stupid shit, the government has to make some rules to protect us from people who can't see any further than their own damned selfish wants.

We now return to the topic.

The want of money makes the government dishonest just like any other large organization that handles and covets money, yet conservatives seem to have trouble transferring their distrust to any other concentration of wealth and power and the corruption it brings.

Apply this to Statist/Progressive SHITBALLS like yourself, and Obama and the ENTIRE Democrat party. Selfish WANTS indeed. Another FAIL and thanks for outing yourself ONCE and for all...

SHITSTAIN

 

[The T]

You have the absolute right to keep whatever you have obtained through voluntary exchange with others. That includes profit.

That word "voluntary" is never absolute either, there's a million ways to pressure, extort, bribe, steal, con, etc. to get what you want and some like you seem to like a profit made from pain best of all.

Who has the pressure to force you into those situations? Government, the only people that can force you to take what they are offering. No options, no escape and they have the law on their side.

320 million people in this country to choose from in doing business with and only one that demands you do it or go to jail.

Indeed. Tyranny on parade. Liberty of the individual? What's that? Occupido is ALL for tyranny, while stating he isn't. I'd say HE is a bit conflicted. Somalia is NOT a fair comparison as THEY don't possess a Constitution as WE do.

 

[ron4342]

Love of money by government is the root of all evil, get it right.

Government produces nothing yet covets all that you earned. Through their desire for and taking of your earned income they redistribute to others who then also become non-producers that covet your money.

Money is the root of all good in the hands of people who want to earn more and create things of value. They can use it to make new things, new advances and new cures with that money. Government on the other can't do that.

"Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society."
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Supreme Court Justice.

If you are unhappy with the government collecting taxes I suggest you do one of two things:
1) Stop using anything that is paid for by taxes and that includes freeways (DOT), the water you drink (EPA), the food you buy (FDA), the medicines you purchase, both OTC and prescribed (FDA), the airplanes you fly in (FAA), the air you breathe (EPA), and on and on and on. Alternately, you can ...
2) Move to some country where their are no taxes. That leaves out every civilized country in the world but does open the door to Dufar, Sudan, Congo, and Somalia.
Good luck with whatever you choose.

No it doesn't, numskull. People in those countries also pay taxes. How does doing anything in #1 prevent you from paying taxes?

I suspect you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You are just upset at being shown what a fool you are. Oh, and one other thing, before you can have taxation you must have a strong central government. I do not believe any of the countries I noted have such a thing. In Somalia for example, 42% of the people live on less that $1.00 per day. It would be pretty tough to collect taxes from people making less than $365/YEAR. Next time, educate yourself before making a fool of yourself.
Oh, and if you noticed, I did not insult you or call you any names in my first post. But, if that is the only way we can communicate I will be glad to start using insults and name calling. Your choice.
Economy of Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Life in southern Sudan | Sudanese Stories | NSW Migration Heritage Centre

 

[The T]

"Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society."
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Supreme Court Justice.

If you are unhappy with the government collecting taxes I suggest you do one of two things:
1) Stop using anything that is paid for by taxes and that includes freeways (DOT), the water you drink (EPA), the food you buy (FDA), the medicines you purchase, both OTC and prescribed (FDA), the airplanes you fly in (FAA), the air you breathe (EPA), and on and on and on. Alternately, you can ...
2) Move to some country where their are no taxes. That leaves out every civilized country in the world but does open the door to Dufar, Sudan, Congo, and Somalia.
Good luck with whatever you choose.

No it doesn't, numskull. People in those countries also pay taxes. How does doing anything in #1 prevent you from paying taxes?

I suspect you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You are just upset at being shown what a fool you are. Oh, and one other thing, before you can have taxation you must have a strong central government. I do not believe any of the countries I noted have such a thing. In Somalia for example, 42% of the people live on less that $1.00 per day. It would be pretty tough to collect taxes from people making less than $365/YEAR. Next time, educate yourself before making a fool of yourself.
Oh, and if you noticed, I did not insult you or call you any names in my first post. But, if that is the only way we can communicate I will be glad to start using insults and name calling. Your choice.
Economy of Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Life in southern Sudan | Sudanese Stories | NSW Migration Heritage Centre

TAXATION is the problem as IS "STRONG CENTRALIZED Government"

IDIOT

 

[bripat9643]

The rights and well being of the people must always be weighed against the wants of the individual, there is no absolute right to profit if you are producing misery.

You have the absolute right to keep whatever you have obtained through voluntary exchange with others. That includes profit.

That word "voluntary" is never absolute either, there's a million ways to pressure, extort, bribe, steal, con, etc. to get what you want and some like you seem to like a profit made from pain best of all.

To "extort, steal and con" are not examples of voluntary exchanges.

Where have I ever indicated I like "a profit made from pain best of all?" Can you post some examples? Why do you assume making a profit always causes pain? Does Apple cause pain when it sells an iPhone? On the other hand, government transactions are always painful. Normally you have to pay a whole bunch of money to get nothing in return.

 

[MaxGrit]

1 Timothy 6

English Standard Version (ESV)

Let all who are under a yoke as bondservants regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved.

Teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” for by professing it some have swerved from the faith.

Grace be with you.

 

[bripat9643]

"Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society."
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Supreme Court Justice.

If you are unhappy with the government collecting taxes I suggest you do one of two things:
1) Stop using anything that is paid for by taxes and that includes freeways (DOT), the water you drink (EPA), the food you buy (FDA), the medicines you purchase, both OTC and prescribed (FDA), the airplanes you fly in (FAA), the air you breathe (EPA), and on and on and on. Alternately, you can ...
2) Move to some country where their are no taxes. That leaves out every civilized country in the world but does open the door to Dufar, Sudan, Congo, and Somalia.
Good luck with whatever you choose.

No it doesn't, numskull. People in those countries also pay taxes. How does doing anything in #1 prevent you from paying taxes?

I suspect you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You are just upset at being shown what a fool you are. Oh, and one other thing, before you can have taxation you must have a strong central government. I do not believe any of the countries I noted have such a thing. In Somalia for example, 42% of the people live on less that $1.00 per day. It would be pretty tough to collect taxes from people making less than $365/YEAR. Next time, educate yourself before making a fool of yourself.
Oh, and if you noticed, I did not insult you or call you any names in my first post. But, if that is the only way we can communicate I will be glad to start using insults and name calling. Your choice.
Economy of Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Life in southern Sudan | Sudanese Stories | NSW Migration Heritage Centre

Your entire post was insulting to anyone with a brain. The fact that most Somalians are poor doesn't mean they don't pay taxes. Someone has to pay for those AK 47's that the troops of the warlords sport. Somalians may not fill out a form 1040, but they do pay taxes in some form. Government is the only thing you need for taxation, whether it is "strong" or not. The only reason government exists is so one class of people can mulct the rest of society for cash.

 

[pvsi]

“So you think that money is the root of all evil?” said Francisco d’Anconia. “Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange,

Son, let me give you a quick lesson: these terms are being thrown out to the public to be used as distractions, but American founding fathers have said it best, perhaps you can take a clue why the establishment now teaches us that they were slave owners while international bankers are great businessmen and creators of wealth yes?

Thomas Jefferson
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The
issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

Andrew Jackson
"If Congress has the right [it doesn't] to issue paper money [currency], it was given to them to be used by...[the government] and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations" — President Andrew Jackson, Vetoed Bank Bill of 1836

James Madison
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

1. And GUESS whom has been manipulating it via the FEDERAL RESERVE that the Founders opted NOT to have? 2. And guess when it was enacted? Under WILSON and the age of PROGRESSIVES over 100 years ago. 3. HOW did WE ever survive without it? Hmm?

1. I don't understand the question
2. I know
3. How did we survive without the federal reserve? because we were not enslaved to things such as taxation and inflation, we were not desperate to come up with certain amount of money each month to pay the bills.