More Americans identify as Independent

[Vastator]

And you think an independent party could? A number of immigration reform bills strengthening border security have died because Repubs can not countenance a path to citizenship despite it being a popular position with a majority of Americans.

We already have a path to citizenship.

 

[Harry Dresden]

And?

When lesser of evils is your only choice you pick the leser and walk da fuck away. That is reality.

and so nothing changes.....what reality.....

 

[berg80]

they are the same kind of people.....they call each other the same names.....they accuse each other of doing many of the same things.....its 2 groups of people who maybe want the same thing but will say....."i agree with you,we need to get that done,but we do it my way or fuck you"....so it eventually will turn into a tit for tat type of governing....look at it right now?....these people,many are the so called "lessor of 2 evils" who got voted in......are some of the most inept people ever in DC.....so all you party people,keep voting these people in....then you can spend the next few years here bitching about how bad they are.....

I invite you to read the Wikileaks piece I provided a link to. Read what the bill would accomplish. Then read the conservative's objections and see if they ring true to you. Or whether the objections come down to a recognition enhanced democracy disadvantages the GOP.

 

[JoeB131]

He really thinks I'm "working for the Deep State".

Imagine going through life at that degree of paranoia.

The actual truth is much sadder.

Mac thinks he's the smartest man in the room.

 

[berg80]

We already have a path to citizenship.

Are you being cute or are you ignorant of the provisions in various reform bills directed specifically at illegal immigrants currently residing in the US. Provisions including meeting standards for qualifying for consideration to become a citizen. Paying back taxes, waiting for as many as 10-13 years while meeting certain criteria. Being employed, not having a record, etc. A path that does not currently exist for these people.

 

[JoeB131]

but very few are.... since many"independents" back one party or the other.....

True enough. Up until 2008, I usually backed Republicans. After 2008, I usually voted for Democrats.

That said, I cross party lines if there's a candidate I don't particularly like. For instance, in 2010, I voted for Pat Quinn as governor because he seemed like a pretty honest guy after they threw Blago out on his can.

Then I found myself kind of annoyed by how ineffectual he was. So I made the mistake of voting for Bruce Rauner. Bruce Rauner's whole tenure was trying to dismantle unions in IL. He finally won the Janus decision, but it had little effect because guess what, most people don't like working longer hours for less pay.

I voted for Pritzker in 2018 and again in 2022. Despite having served with his freakish cousin when I was in the national guard, he's done a pretty good job.

 

[berg80]

And yet with the continued war mongering and massive debt you somehow see something positive in presenting bills you know will never pass

I reject your cynical assertion the only reason those reforms were proposed, put in a bill, and passed in the House (by Dems) is because they know Repubs will block it.

Support[edit]​

Democratic Congressmembers holding a press conference in support of the Act in March 2021.
The bill is supported by President Joe Biden,[37][38] congressional Democrats,[39] and liberal political commentators.[40][41][42][43] In addition, a number of civil rights organizations[44] support the bill, such as the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights (which includes the AFL–CIO, Common Cause, NAACP, Sierra Club, Center for Constitutional Rights, and others),[45] the League of Women Voters,[46] the Brennan Center for Justice,[47] End Citizens United,[15] Stand Up America,[48] and the League of Conservation Voters.[49] The editorial boards of the New York Times and the Washington Post support the bill, with the former saying it would "make the American political system more accessible and accountable to the American people" and "put an end to at least some of the vile voter suppression practices that Republicans have embraced in recent years."[50][51] The Economist has similarly voiced support for the bill, writing that "making voting easy and secure ought to be the aim of any party committed to democracy" and arguing that, while the bill "is not perfect", it would "restrict the ability of state parties to game voting laws".[52]

Common arguments in support of the bill are that it would limit gerrymandering by mandating districts be drawn by independent redistricting commissions;[53][54] that it would make voting easier by expanding mail-in voting, requiring at least 15 consecutive days of early voting, and making Election Day a federal holiday;[55] that it would prevent forms of voter suppression like voter-roll purges;[56][57] that it would reduce the influence of dark money in politics;[58][59] that it would re-enfranchise felons who have served their sentences;[60][61] and that it would reduce the influence of "big money" in politics by setting up a donation-matching fund for small-dollar donations.[62][41] Many political commentators view the bill as a defense against an onslaught of voting restrictions pushed by state Republicans following false claims by former President Donald Trump that the 2020 election was rigged in favor of Joe Biden; in this view, Republicans are pushing a false narrative about the 2020 election in order to lower citizens' confidence in the integrity of elections, and then using that lack of confidence as pretext to impose new voting restrictions.[63][64][56]

 

[Vastator]

Are you being cute or are you ignorant of the provisions in various reform bills directed specifically at illegal immigrants currently residing in the US. Provisions including meeting standards for qualifying for consideration to become a citizen. Paying back taxes, waiting for as many as 10-13 years while meeting certain criteria. Being employed, not having a record, etc. A path that does not currently exist for these people.

Too bad for them. We have a pathway to citizenship. They knowingly, and willfully skirted it. They are criminals. They should be deported and barred any future opportunity for citizenship in this country.

 

[Papageorgio]

Admittedly I only put so much weight in any poll, so let's just classify this as "hopeful thinking".

Independent Party ID Tied for High; Democratic ID at New Low

In 2023, 43% of U.S. adults identified as independents, tying the record high from 2014. Meanwhile, Democratic identification fell to a new low of 27%.

news.gallup.com

Independent: 43%
Republican: 27%
Democrat: 27%

Independents will usually vote for one of the two main parties depending on the candidates, but this is a very hopeful sign. As the nutters on both ends get most of the attention, America continues to weaken.

Hopefully more and more will begin to consider a strong third party.

Which third party did you vote for , for President this last election?

 

[shockedcanadian]

And you think an independent party could? A number of immigration reform bills strengthening border security have died because Repubs can not countenance a path to citizenship despite it being a popular position with a majority of Americans.

So a guy illegally brings his family across a border into a sovereign country (we hope), and you reward them with citizenship?

What is the incentive for top talent to go through the issue of applying legally, waiting their turn etc when they can just pay a cartel member money to sneak them in?

If you want to reward those who apply to the military, ok. They have skin in the game and have illustrated a loyalty to the U.S. Otherwise, they should pursue the legal channels or, be escorted out of your country.

 

[pknopp]

So a guy illegally brings his family across a border into a sovereign country (we hope), and you reward them with citizenship?

That's what Reagan did.

What is the incentive for top talent to go through the issue of applying legally, waiting their turn etc when they can just pay a cartel member money to sneak them in?

If you want to reward those who apply to the military, ok. They have skin in the game and have illustrated a loyalty to the U.S. Otherwise, they should pursue the legal channels or, be escorted out of your country.

Business doesn't want to hire people this way in many instances. You then have to pay them legal wages, pay taxes on them. OT and all that silly stuff.

 

[DGS49]

Unwittingly - I suspect - the OP illustrates the folly of "democracy." The People are, collectively, stupid.

It is literally and demonstrably stupid to register as an "independent." In most districts and in most elections, there are actually TWO elections: a primary election and a general election. In the primary election, each party selects the candidates that they want to run in the general election. If you register as an "Independent," then you virtually disenfranchise yourself. You exclude yourself from the primary election, which in many if not most cases, actually decides who will be elected. (I'm assuming the State limits primary voting to those who are registered in the specific party). In a district where one party dominates, rational voters register for the dominant party, regardless of their personal leanings. Imagine voting in the Republican primary for mayor of Washington, D.C. What an utterly worthless, wasted vote!

And here we are, ensconced in a culture where "nobody wants to be told what to do - ever(!)" so people (1) register as an Independent to show their independence of thought, then (2) whine about not being able to vote in primaries. You gotta be a fucking idiot.

 

[pknopp]

Unwittingly - I suspect - the OP illustrates the folly of "democracy." The People are, collectively, stupid.

It is literally and demonstrably stupid to register as an "independent." In most districts and in most elections, there are actually TWO elections: a primary election and a general election. In the primary election, each party selects the candidates that they want to run in the general election. If you register as an "Independent," then you virtually disenfranchise yourself. You exclude yourself from the primary election, which in many if not most cases, actually decides who will be elected. (I'm assuming the State limits primary voting to those who are registered in the specific party). In a district where one party dominates, rational voters register for the dominant party, regardless of their personal leanings. Imagine voting in the Republican primary for mayor of Washington, D.C. What an utterly worthless, wasted vote!

And here we are, ensconced in a culture where "nobody wants to be told what to do - ever(!)" so people (1) register as an Independent to show their independence of thought, then (2) whine about not being able to vote in primaries. You gotta be a fucking idiot.

You are demeaning people based upon your limited knowledge of things.

I can vote in either the (D) or (R) or any other primary as a registered (I).

 

[j-mac]

...this is a very hopeful sign..... America continues to weaken.

Even in the seemingly innocuous post, Mac's position is there....

 

[j-mac]

You are demeaning people based upon your limited knowledge of things.

I can vote in either the (D) or (R) or any other primary as a registered (I).

Your registration is a lie...

 

[JoeB131]

So a guy illegally brings his family across a border into a sovereign country (we hope), and you reward them with citizenship?

What is the incentive for top talent to go through the issue of applying legally, waiting their turn etc when they can just pay a cartel member money to sneak them in?

Well, to start with, top talent can't legally secure work without the correct papers if a cartel member snuck them in.

 

[pknopp]

Well, to start with, top talent can't legally secure work without the correct papers if a cartel member snuck them in.

Nope. They look to the government to do that for them.

Tech and outsourcing companies continue to exploit the H-1B visa program at a time of mass layoffs: The top 30 H-1B employers hired 34,000 new H-1B workers in 2022 and laid off at least 85,000 workers in 2022 and early 2023

 

[Vastator]

Unwittingly - I suspect - the OP illustrates the folly of "democracy." The People are, collectively, stupid.

It is literally and demonstrably stupid to register as an "independent." In most districts and in most elections, there are actually TWO elections: a primary election and a general election. In the primary election, each party selects the candidates that they want to run in the general election. If you register as an "Independent," then you virtually disenfranchise yourself. You exclude yourself from the primary election, which in many if not most cases, actually decides who will be elected. (I'm assuming the State limits primary voting to those who are registered in the specific party). In a district where one party dominates, rational voters register for the dominant party, regardless of their personal leanings. Imagine voting in the Republican primary for mayor of Washington, D.C. What an utterly worthless, wasted vote!

And here we are, ensconced in a culture where "nobody wants to be told what to do - ever(!)" so people (1) register as an Independent to show their independence of thought, then (2) whine about not being able to vote in primaries. You gotta be a fucking idiot.

It's more effective to register for the opposing party, and voting for the worst candidate they offer up. Then your team can bat clean up in the general elections...

 

[Dekster]

Admittedly I only put so much weight in any poll, so let's just classify this as "hopeful thinking".

Independent Party ID Tied for High; Democratic ID at New Low

In 2023, 43% of U.S. adults identified as independents, tying the record high from 2014. Meanwhile, Democratic identification fell to a new low of 27%.

news.gallup.com

Independent: 43%
Republican: 27%
Democrat: 27%

Independents will usually vote for one of the two main parties depending on the candidates, but this is a very hopeful sign. As the nutters on both ends get most of the attention, America continues to weaken.

Hopefully more and more will begin to consider a strong third party.

Most independents have a predisposed lean to one party or the other.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope. They look to the government to do that for them.

Tech and outsourcing companies continue to exploit the H-1B visa program at a time of mass layoffs: The top 30 H-1B employers hired 34,000 new H-1B workers in 2022 and laid off at least 85,000 workers in 2022 and early 2023

If I were running a company, I'd seriously consider H1B talent. Certainly better than an American Millenial with no work ethic who is going to quit for a better job next year.

If you don't like the H1B program, then lobby Congress to fix it. Oh, that would actually involve not being a Bernie Bro who pouts in the corner.