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[Andylusion]

Leftist, Subversive George Soros Bets $2 Billion on Stock Market Collapse!!!!!!!!!e

Newsmax ^

Billionaire investor George Soros has increased his financial bet that U.S. stocks will collapse to more than $2 billion. The legendary hedge fund manager has been raising his negative bet on the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index since late last year. The latest 13-F filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission shows that Soros Fund Management increased its position in “puts” on the SPDR S&P 500 exchange-traded fund by a staggering amount in the second quarter from the first. …

I'm confused why this is morally wrong.

I hedge my investments too. Am I terrible person as well?

Why? Is the only morally good choice, to invest as reckless and foolishly as possible?

Is the only good outcome, that everyone who invests, loses their money?

This is such a strange belief system to me. In my world, I want everyone to be successful. I want everyone to be better off. The more people that are better off, the more happy I am about it.

If *YOU* were to come on here, and tell me that you won the lottery, or started up a new business, and was making $300 thousand a year, or got a job with GM as an executive with $100 Million income....

I would be ecstatic for you. That's wonderful that another person is successful and wealthy in our society.

But for some reason, it seems as though, the left actually wants people to suffer and fail. If the stock market goes down, I want George Soros to lose everything!

..... why?... If someone else suffers, then I want everyone to suffer? Why? Isn't there something in the back of your mind that makes you wonder about that attitude? That maybe thinking that way is... wrong?

 

[Chris]

Americans net worth is up $20 trillion dollars since 2009.
America will be energy independent by 2030.
Unemployment has dropped from 10.2% to 6.1%
The stock market has more than doubled since the stimulus.
10 million private sector jobs have been created since 2009.
GDP has been growing since 2009.
Auto sales are up. Retail sales are up. Home sales are up.
Bin Laden is dead, and GM is alive.
Obama has done a very good job.

 

[Chris]

Fact: Hoover did everything that FDR did, before FDR did it.

Fact: Contrary to leftist dogma, the economy got worse, not better.

Fact: FDR doubled down in 1936, with even more vast government programs and invention.

Fact: Contrary to leftist dogma, the economy got worse, not better

WWII ended the great depression, all FDR was keep it going by doing more of the government intervention that got us into it. The depression started about a decade after implementation of ... the income tax ...

Margin trading of stock created the Great Depression.
The derivatives Ponzi scheme created the Great Recession.

When an economy goes into deflation, the government has to be the demand of last resort.

Deregulation of Wall Street created both collapses.

Government stimulus spending brought us out of both.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Fact: Hoover did everything that FDR did, before FDR did it.

Fact: Contrary to leftist dogma, the economy got worse, not better.

Fact: FDR doubled down in 1936, with even more vast government programs and invention.

Fact: Contrary to leftist dogma, the economy got worse, not better

WWII ended the great depression, all FDR was keep it going by doing more of the government intervention that got us into it. The depression started about a decade after implementation of ... the income tax ...

Margin trading of stock created the Great Depression.
The derivatives Ponzi scheme created the Great Recession.

When an economy goes into deflation, the government has to be the demand of last resort.

Deregulation of Wall Street created both collapses.

Government stimulus spending brought us out of both.

The derivatives Ponzi scheme created the Great Recession.

Impossible!

Deregulation of Wall Street created both collapses.

Nope. No deregulation was needed to write or sell crappy mortgages.

 

[EconChick]

Americans net worth is up $20 trillion dollars since 2009.
America will be energy independent by 2030.
Unemployment has dropped from 10.2% to 6.1%
The stock market has more than doubled since the stimulus.
10 million private sector jobs have been created since 2009.
GDP has been growing since 2009.
Auto sales are up. Retail sales are up. Home sales are up.
Bin Laden is dead, and GM is alive.
Obama has done a very good job.

You DO realize someone in just the 9th grade could tear every one of these statements apart, right?

You libs love to throw around numbers that have either no context or misleading context. Kinda like:

Sally's salary went up 500%.
Henry's grass height more than doubled since he fed it Dr. Zombie's weed killer.
The number of farts your spouse squeezed out dropped from 10% to 6%.
Susie's number of old pimples decreased by 200 over the year.


Just what the *&@# do those numbers really tell you???

500% of a salary of $5,000 is just $25,000.
More than doubled could mean it grew to 2 inches from 1 inch.
Dropping from 10 to 6% can mean a million things when you put it in context.
Susie may have actually gotten 300 NEW pimples, leaving her a net of 100.


There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Oh, and for about the 100th time, the stock market is NOT the economy.

Your post is a FAIL.

 

[Sallow]

Americans net worth is up $20 trillion dollars since 2009.
America will be energy independent by 2030.
Unemployment has dropped from 10.2% to 6.1%
The stock market has more than doubled since the stimulus.
10 million private sector jobs have been created since 2009.
GDP has been growing since 2009.
Auto sales are up. Retail sales are up. Home sales are up.
Bin Laden is dead, and GM is alive.
Obama has done a very good job.

You DO realize someone in just the 9th grade could tear every one of these statements apart, right?

You libs love to throw around numbers that have either no context or misleading context. Kinda like:

Sally's salary went up 500%.
Henry's grass height more than doubled since he fed it Dr. Zombie's weed killer.
The number of farts your spouse squeezed out dropped from 10% to 6%.
Susie's number of old pimples decreased by 200 over the year.


Just what the *&@# do those numbers really tell you???

500% of a salary of $5,000 is just $25,000.
More than doubled could mean it grew to 2 inches from 1 inch.
Dropping from 10 to 6% can mean a million things when you put it in context.
Susie may have actually gotten 300 NEW pimples, leaving her a net of 100.


There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Oh, and for about the 100th time, the stock market is NOT the economy.

Your post is a FAIL.

You folks keep saying this and yet? When there is major economic turmoil in this country? It generally starts in the Stock Market.

Now why is that? Could it be there a huge tie in between banks (Savings) and financials (investment)? Could it be that when the market goes south, credit freezes up?

Real wealth (the stuff outside of money) is acquired in several ways.

You grow it.
You mine it.
You produce it.
You service it.

And America wasn't suffering a large scale decline in any of those things during the great depression and the Bush cataclysm.

What did happen?

The stock market crashed and banks were failing.

That dried up credit and investment. And led to massive unemployment.

Your argument here is laughable at best.

 

[kaz]

Fact: Hoover did everything that FDR did, before FDR did it.

Fact: Contrary to leftist dogma, the economy got worse, not better.

Fact: FDR doubled down in 1936, with even more vast government programs and invention.

Fact: Contrary to leftist dogma, the economy got worse, not better

WWII ended the great depression, all FDR was keep it going by doing more of the government intervention that got us into it. The depression started about a decade after implementation of ... the income tax ...

Margin trading of stock created the Great Depression.
The derivatives Ponzi scheme created the Great Recession.

When an economy goes into deflation, the government has to be the demand of last resort.

Deregulation of Wall Street created both collapses.

Government stimulus spending brought us out of both.

You've sold your soul to the devil, chris...

 

[kaz]

I'm confused why this is morally wrong.

I hedge my investments too. Am I terrible person as well?

Yes, you're not a liberal. That's OK, I am a terrible person too because I'm also not a liberal. I believe the point on Soros is that if the Koch brothers did it then the left would be hysterical, it's about their hypocrisy. Just guessing though.

 

[kaz]

You folks keep saying this and yet? When there is major economic turmoil in this country? It generally starts in the Stock Market

LOL, that's why I don't ask my IT guy for investment advice. What you are saying is that lightning causes the thunderstorm. The market is the first to reflect it, it is not the cause of it.

 

[Sallow]

You folks keep saying this and yet? When there is major economic turmoil in this country? It generally starts in the Stock Market

LOL, that's why I don't ask my IT guy for investment advice. What you are saying is that lightning causes the thunderstorm. The market is the first to reflect it, it is not the cause of it.

Oookay.

Outside the market..what failed, in real terms, to function correctly during the depression and
the Bush cataclysm?

Currency is sort of an "arbitrary' construct set up by governments to conduct trade. It really has no intrinsic value. Agriculture, Raw Materials, Manufactured Products and Services have a "real" value. They are tangible and have uses.

Money? Not so much. It's basically something humans agree on. And you can assign a value to most anything to achieve the same goal. If we both agree that a rock has value, we can use the rock to trade stuff.

What has happened in this country is that there are some folks that have figured out how to "game" the money, such that it winds up in a very few hands. And the folks making decisions about how to allocate that money, do so based on self interest.

So? Agriculture didn't experience major failures. Manufacturing didn't experience major failures. Mining and Raw Material extraction didn't experience major failures. Labor didn't experience major failures. Those handling the money did.

That's what went south. It's not a "thunder and lightning" thing.

It's a greed and avarice thing.

 

[EconChick]

Bush was certainly part of it, but to let both parties in both houses and Clinton off the hook shows what a disingenuous hack you are and what a waste of time you are other than to banter with. You obviously don't care and you've never taken a finance course. If you actually want to discuss is, I'm game, but stop being an idiotic dick. Even you have to know Bush didn't remotely do it by himself. At least I hope you do, no one should have their mouth that deeply on Obama's cock. I mean to start you couldn't even breathe.

Damn that was like poetry, Kaz. I was going to post something similar about what a waste it is to banter with Sallow, but you said it so much more artfully.

 

[Sallow]

Damn that was like poetry, Kaz. I was going to post something similar about what a waste it is to banter with Sallow, but you said it so much more artfully.

It seems that neither of you folks can "artfully" address the points in my posts.

However you can "artfully" engage in personal insults, leading me to believe you are in uncharted territory.

If you truly believe that the market has nothing to do with the economy, would should be able to illustrate that in clear cognizant arguments.

 

[kaz]

It seems that neither of you folks can "artfully" address the points in my posts.

However you can "artfully" engage in personal insults, leading me to believe you are in uncharted territory.

If you truly believe that the market has nothing to do with the economy, would should be able to illustrate that in clear cognizant arguments.

That's why we just insult your sorry ass. You said economic problems arise from the markets, when we mocked you for that, you said we need to show the market has nothing to do with the economy. Black or white, those are our choices, one extreme or the other. It cracks me up when you call Repbublicans black and white, you are so much more. Someone needs deskside support somewhere, go do that, you're just over your head here. You're not even interesting. Not even a little.

 

[Mac1958]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

 

[kaz]

The American stock market is as disconnected from the American economy as it has ever been.

The two are essentially operating independent of each other at this moment. But if we don't get some significant organic growth pretty soon, pretty DAMN soon, you'll see both headed in the same direction. This market is being held aloft by the hope of growth.

I understand why it seems that way sometimes, but the market is driven by the economy, you have to remember they are betting on the future, not today. Today is known.

My favorite analogy is the market follows a "drunk man's walk." Imagine a guy who's really loaded walking towards a lit barn door. He staggers to the left, staggers to the right. He is moving towards the door in general, but you can't predict his next step.

The economy is the lit door, the daily stock changes are his drunken steps. If you have any questions about that, Sallow can help you. Say you want to Google more and you're having computer problems, he can reinstall your browser or reboot your computer for you.

 

[Mac1958]

I understand why it seems that way sometimes, but the market is driven by the economy, you have to remember they are betting on the future, not today. Today is known.

My favorite analogy is the market follows a "drunk man's walk." Imagine a guy who's really loaded walking towards a lit barn door. He staggers to the left, staggers to the right. He is moving towards the door in general, but you can't predict his next step.

The economy is the lit door, the daily stock changes are his drunken steps. If you have any questions about that, Sallow can help you. Say you want to Google more and you're having computer problems, he can reinstall your browser or reboot your computer for you.

Well, it's my profession, and I know who to consult and who not to, LOL....

I've never seen a market more disconnected. Ask people in the business, this is the least-liked bull run in our careers, but that doesn't stop the numbers from doing what they're doing. So fine, we'll enjoy the run, but we know what it's built on. If growth catches up, we'll be fine. If not, we're going to see some problems.

.

 

[EconChick]

It seems that neither of you folks can "artfully" address the points in my posts.

However you can "artfully" engage in personal insults, leading me to believe you are in uncharted territory.

If you truly believe that the market has nothing to do with the economy, would should be able to illustrate that in clear cognizant arguments.

Huh? Who said the market has nothing to do with the economy? LMAO you really need to take a logic class.

Picture a Venn Diagram. Picture two circles. One is the economy. Call that circle A. The other is the market. Call that circle B. In logic class, YOU would stick circle A completely inside circle B, or vice versa, because you see them the same.

In reality circle B would be a little biddy circle overlapping circle A. See the difference?

I'm sure you didn't grasp that. Even using caveman teaching techniques wouldn't help you.

 

[kaz]

Well, it's my profession, and I know who to consult and who not to, LOL....

I've never seen a market more disconnected. Ask people in the business, this is the least-liked bull run in our careers, but that doesn't stop the numbers from doing what they're doing. So fine, we'll enjoy the run, but we know what it's built on. If growth catches up, we'll be fine. If not, we're going to see some problems.

.

The market has gone up less than 35% over the last dozen years, is that really disconnected? Seems about right to me.

 

[kaz]

Huh? Who said the market has nothing to do with the economy? LMAO you really need to take a logic class.

Picture a Venn Diagram. Picture two circles. One is the economy. Call that circle A. The other is the market. Call that circle B. In logic class, YOU would stick circle A completely inside circle B, or vice versa, because you see them the same.

In reality circle B would be a little biddy circle overlapping circle A. See the difference?

I'm sure you didn't grasp that. Even using caveman teaching techniques wouldn't help you.

He said economic turmoil in this country "generally starts in the stock market." Since I challenged that, it means I am saying the stock market "has nothing to do with the economy."

Those are the only options Sallow can think of. That's what he learned doing IT on Wall Street.

 

[kaz]

Well, it's my profession, and I know who to consult and who not to, LOL....

I started my career in IT as well. Then I got my MBA and went into business and finance. To be clear, I'm not dissing IT as a profession, I"m just mocking Sallow for thinking doing IT on Wall Street means he knows anything about finance when he obviously doesn't. I also worked on Wall Street and never asked my IT guy for help. I keep thanking Sallow for validating that as the right move...