More "freedom" going on in Denver.

[bodecea]

View attachment 168885

Did their guns help them in this situation ?

If it came to socialist death camps...yeah, it would have helped them.....

Did not having guns help these people......all unarmed and murdered by their governments.....and had the people of Europe been armed, the war could have been prevented and or greatly reduced in severity......

WILLIAMS: Fascism And Communism

The People's Republic of China tops the list, with 76 million lives lost at the hands of the government from 1949 to 1987.

The Soviet Union follows, with 62 million lives lost from 1917 to 1987.

Adolf Hitler's Nazi German government killed 21 million people between 1933 and 1945.

Then there are lesser murdering regimes, such as Nationalist China, Japan, Turkey, Vietnam and Mexico. According to Rummel's research, the 20th century saw 262 millionpeople's lives lost at the hands of their own governments.

But my understanding is that the government rounded these people up and put them in camps. Their guns did not help them at all.

Correct.

The notion that private citizens with small arms could ‘overthrow’ or ‘resist’ a government’s modern military is childish idiocy.

Just as childish and idiotic is the notion that the possession of firearm has anything to do with ‘freedom’

Americans are a free people because we live in a Constitutional Republic whose citizens are subject solely to the rule of law, not the ‘will of the people.’

And the American people have the right to possess firearms to defend against crime; it’s the First Amendment, not the Second Amendment, that protects Americans from government tyranny – the Second Amendment doesn’t ‘trump’ the First.

No the 2nd always protects the first amendment..we seen that at the Bundy ranch

The feds were scrared going up against arm ranchers .

So, it's cool to steal from the government (the People) if you have snipers and are hiding behind women and children.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Gop/NRA preach that we need high powered weapons in order to fight off the government!

They do? Can you please provide me the link where an NRA representative proclaims we need guns to fight off the government?

What’s the old Heston quote ? “They’ll have to pry my rifle out of my cold dead hands!”

----------------------------------------------------- and that quote by Heston makes sense in the context that Heston said it Timmy .

Dude. You really going to make me hunt down quotes of conservatives saying this stuff? I don’t make it up ! Why do you think they want semi autos be to legal ?

I am not making you do anything. Liberals say the only people who want to own guns are racist, anarchist. The reality there are 2 types of gun owners- those who tend to belong to the NRA, the ones who hunt and enjoy exercising their right to responsibly own a gun; and then there are those who buy and own guns illegally, they are the ones who commit crimes with guns.

 

[JimH52]

Tommy, I live not to far from where this atrocity happened. And the Aurora movie theater shooting was within a few miles also. And I am tired of it. It has to end. American gun culture is sick, and just getting worse. What is the solution?

I remember when cigarettes were the big killer and the tobacco company was fighting. They and their supporters were denying that the cancer sticks were causing deaths. They were denying that nicotine was addictive.

IT took years for public opinion to turn against the giant tobacco companies. Finally, science won and congress stood up to big tobacco. It will take years for the gutless congress to stand up to the NRA. BUT, IT WILL HAPPEN.

 

[2aguy]

Japan......they have a low gun crime rate because they do what we, the supporters of gun Rights say we should do....lock up gun criminals for a long time...

I don't believe I mentioned gun crime rate, rather firearm homicide rate, which is very low in Japan because handguns are effectively banned.

Actually, you are still wrong.....Japan has low crime in every single category because of their culture...it has nothing to do with their gun laws....

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates.

Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.

 

[2aguy]

“What do you need an AR 15 for?”

This question is often asked in the wake of a mass shooting involving semi-automatic rifles.

But this question is without merit.

Citizens are not required to ‘justify’ the exercising of a fundamental right as a ‘prerequisite’ to indeed do so; the burden rests solely with government to justify placing limits and restriction on a fundamental right.

That one does not perceive a ‘need’ to own an AR 15 doesn’t warrant seeking to prohibit possessing such a firearm.

Yes it does. It's one of the reasons you have the highest rate of firearm homicides in the developed world. Easy access to handguns is another reason for your gun mortality rates. But none of this matters. US citizens as a whole have decided easy access to handguns, in particular, is more important than school kids' lives. No biggie, no skin off my nose, I'm just amused by the ridiculous arguments of those too scared to go shopping without carrying a sidearm.

Why is handgun crime going up in Britain...where they banned and confiscated them? How is it that the ones using the handguns are younger and younger in Britain, where they banned and confiscated them?


U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.

The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data. Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.


Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

 

[2aguy]

Actually it is you who are ignoring the facts. Gun violence is on the increase in every country that has banned guns. That is a fact.

The countries with the most guns and the least controls have the highest firearm homicide rates. That is the fact none of the idiologues will address. 'Gun violence' is a catch all in which you can conflate anything you want, rather than getting usefully specific.

And that is wrong...the countries with the strongest gun control laws have the highest gun homicide rates...we don't even break the top 100 for murder....

Why is gun crime going up in Britain?

Why is gun crime going up in Australia?

How do terrorists on terroist watch lists get fully automatic military weapons in France? Why are fully automatic AK-47s status symbols among the French criminal class?

 

[2aguy]

The countries with the most guns and the least controls have the highest firearm homicide rates. That is the fact none of the idiologues will address. 'Gun violence' is a catch all in which you can conflate anything you want, rather than getting usefully specific.

Chicago has the most gun control and the fewest guns and one of the highest homicide rates with guns in the country.

Don't Forget Baltimore, they have every single gun control measure the anti gunners want, and they have more gun murder than New York city....Baltimore..population 600,000, New York, population 8 million.....

 

[2aguy]

The countries with the most guns and the least controls have the highest firearm homicide rates. That is the fact none of the idiologues will address. 'Gun violence' is a catch all in which you can conflate anything you want, rather than getting usefully specific.

Chicago has the most gun control and the fewest guns and one of the highest homicide rates with guns in the country.

Were there guns in Chicago when the laws were enacted? Are there checkpoints for searching vehicles coming into the city? City by city gun laws are worthless.

And yet Chicago has a higher gun murder rate than L.A. and New York combined....and both L.A. and New York gangs can also get guns from out of state...so access to guns isn't driving the gun murder rate.....Baltimore has a population of 600,000 people...New York has a population of 8 million...and Baltimore has more gun murders than New York....again, both cities and their gangs have access to out of state guns and both have extreme gun control laws...

Law abiding people who own guns and carry them for self defense...they aren't the ones shooting people, moron.....but you morons focus entirely on the people who don't use their guns for crimes...

Why is that?

 

[2aguy]

Did their guns help them in this situation ?

If it came to socialist death camps...yeah, it would have helped them.....

Did not having guns help these people......all unarmed and murdered by their governments.....and had the people of Europe been armed, the war could have been prevented and or greatly reduced in severity......

WILLIAMS: Fascism And Communism

The People's Republic of China tops the list, with 76 million lives lost at the hands of the government from 1949 to 1987.

The Soviet Union follows, with 62 million lives lost from 1917 to 1987.

Adolf Hitler's Nazi German government killed 21 million people between 1933 and 1945.

Then there are lesser murdering regimes, such as Nationalist China, Japan, Turkey, Vietnam and Mexico. According to Rummel's research, the 20th century saw 262 millionpeople's lives lost at the hands of their own governments.

But my understanding is that the government rounded these people up and put them in camps. Their guns did not help them at all.

Correct.

The notion that private citizens with small arms could ‘overthrow’ or ‘resist’ a government’s modern military is childish idiocy.

Just as childish and idiotic is the notion that the possession of firearm has anything to do with ‘freedom’

Americans are a free people because we live in a Constitutional Republic whose citizens are subject solely to the rule of law, not the ‘will of the people.’

And the American people have the right to possess firearms to defend against crime; it’s the First Amendment, not the Second Amendment, that protects Americans from government tyranny – the Second Amendment doesn’t ‘trump’ the First.

Germany had laws too moron. As did Russia.......pieces of paper do not give you freedom or protection from evil men.....thinking they do is what gave us World War 2....

Americans had their guns when the government was oppressing them in the 1860s.

How did that work out ?

No....in fact, our first gun control laws made it illegal for blacks and indians to own guns...how did that work out for them? How did disarming the law abiding Europeans work out for those sent to the death camps....?

 

[2aguy]

Tommy, I live not to far from where this atrocity happened. And the Aurora movie theater shooting was within a few miles also. And I am tired of it. It has to end. American gun culture is sick, and just getting worse. What is the solution?

I remember when cigarettes were the big killer and the tobacco company was fighting. They and their supporters were denying that the cancer sticks were causing deaths. They were denying that nicotine was addictive.

IT took years for public opinion to turn against the giant tobacco companies. Finally, science won and congress stood up to big tobacco. It will take years for the gutless congress to stand up to the NRA. BUT, IT WILL HAPPEN.

Moron.....Americans use their guns for sport, hunting and self defense......and since a gun is the best tool to stop a rapist, robber and murderer, there is no comparison to the tobacco industry.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

If it came to socialist death camps...yeah, it would have helped them.....

Did not having guns help these people......all unarmed and murdered by their governments.....and had the people of Europe been armed, the war could have been prevented and or greatly reduced in severity......

WILLIAMS: Fascism And Communism

The People's Republic of China tops the list, with 76 million lives lost at the hands of the government from 1949 to 1987.

The Soviet Union follows, with 62 million lives lost from 1917 to 1987.

Adolf Hitler's Nazi German government killed 21 million people between 1933 and 1945.

Then there are lesser murdering regimes, such as Nationalist China, Japan, Turkey, Vietnam and Mexico. According to Rummel's research, the 20th century saw 262 millionpeople's lives lost at the hands of their own governments.

But my understanding is that the government rounded these people up and put them in camps. Their guns did not help them at all.

Correct.

The notion that private citizens with small arms could ‘overthrow’ or ‘resist’ a government’s modern military is childish idiocy.

Just as childish and idiotic is the notion that the possession of firearm has anything to do with ‘freedom’

Americans are a free people because we live in a Constitutional Republic whose citizens are subject solely to the rule of law, not the ‘will of the people.’

And the American people have the right to possess firearms to defend against crime; it’s the First Amendment, not the Second Amendment, that protects Americans from government tyranny – the Second Amendment doesn’t ‘trump’ the First.

Germany had laws too moron. As did Russia.......pieces of paper do not give you freedom or protection from evil men.....thinking they do is what gave us World War 2....

Americans had their guns when the government was oppressing them in the 1860s.

How did that work out ?

No....in fact, our first gun control laws made it illegal for blacks and indians to own guns...how did that work out for them? How did disarming the law abiding Europeans work out for those sent to the death camps....?

I was referring to the rebs dumbo.

 

[2aguy]

But my understanding is that the government rounded these people up and put them in camps. Their guns did not help them at all.

Correct.

The notion that private citizens with small arms could ‘overthrow’ or ‘resist’ a government’s modern military is childish idiocy.

Just as childish and idiotic is the notion that the possession of firearm has anything to do with ‘freedom’

Americans are a free people because we live in a Constitutional Republic whose citizens are subject solely to the rule of law, not the ‘will of the people.’

And the American people have the right to possess firearms to defend against crime; it’s the First Amendment, not the Second Amendment, that protects Americans from government tyranny – the Second Amendment doesn’t ‘trump’ the First.

Germany had laws too moron. As did Russia.......pieces of paper do not give you freedom or protection from evil men.....thinking they do is what gave us World War 2....

Americans had their guns when the government was oppressing them in the 1860s.

How did that work out ?

No....in fact, our first gun control laws made it illegal for blacks and indians to own guns...how did that work out for them? How did disarming the law abiding Europeans work out for those sent to the death camps....?

I was referring to the rebs dumbo.

Yeah...asswipe, but of course you don't know your history of the United States so you don't realize that our first gun control laws kept blacks and indians from being sold or possessing guns....just like the other countries that oppressed people kept their victims from owning guns...

If the Iranians had access to scary black rifles...their country wouldn't be the terrorist supporting shithole it is now...and their protests would have toppled the government already....

 

[whitehall]

File the post under "never let a tragedy go to waste". The shooter was an Iraq war veteran who had been posting crazy stuff and ranting at the local Sheriff's dept. While the California elites were busy hunting down some poor schlep who posted something critical of the Muslem religion, the Colorado authorities apparently took threats to Law Enforcement in stride until the person snapped. How many gun laws were violated? The strange thing is that Kansas Officers who responded to a fake complaint over reacted and the Colorado Officers who responded to a real threat apparently weren't prepared. Better training and leadership in Law Enforcement?

 

[Rustic]

Gop/NRA preach that we need high powered weapons in order to fight off the government!

Quit falling down the well
The US military will never back the federal government against its own citizens you dumb fucking kunt...

 

[pismoe]

Gop/NRA preach that we need high powered weapons in order to fight off the government!

Quit falling down the well
The US military will never back the federal government against its own citizens you dumb fucking kunt...

------------------------------------------------------ well that's the hope but fill the USA military with foreigners and transgenders , mercenaries and others that need the military / government to survive or get medical treatment , citizenship , paychecks , training , extended family into the USA and other perks and goodies and that equation just might change Rustic . --------- just a comment .

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Gun violence in America is a complex and difficult issue – there is no one simple or easy answer.

Sure there is.

Remove the worst of violent criminals permanently from free society.

Any act of murder or attempted murder, on conviction, ought to result in being sentenced to life in prison, with no possibility of parole or other release, or better yet, of being put to death.

But you on the left wrong, being on the side of criminals and against that of law-abiding citizens, strongly oppose such appropriate treatment of criminals; preferring instead to enact “reasonable gun control laws” which leave honest, law-abiding citizens easier prey for your criminals.

Some firearm regulatory measures are appropriate and warranted, such as background checks…

Where in the words “…the right of the people…shall not be infringed.” do you find the authority for government to infringe the right being thus affirmed?

 

[westwall]

The countries with the most guns and the least controls have the highest firearm homicide rates. That is the fact none of the idiologues will address. 'Gun violence' is a catch all in which you can conflate anything you want, rather than getting usefully specific.

Chicago has the most gun control and the fewest guns and one of the highest homicide rates with guns in the country.

Were there guns in Chicago when the laws were enacted? Are there checkpoints for searching vehicles coming into the city? City by city gun laws are worthless.

Why? According to you pass a law and voila the criminals comply with your laws.. What's the problem?

 

[westwall]

"Chicago has the most gun control and the fewest guns and one of the highest homicide rates with guns in the country."

Wrong.

This fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy.

That gun violence occurs in jurisdictions with firearm regulatory measures doesn’t mean those measures have ‘failed’ or are otherwise ‘unwarranted.’

Actually, it does. You love to trot out your logic fallacy's (which you invariably misuse BTW) but the facts disagree with your preconceived notions. Those counties with the least restrictive gun laws also enjoy a corresponding low crime rate. Trot out your incorrect logical fallacy's all you wish, but that is a correlation that is irrefutable. Now, as any good scientist knows, "correlation does not equal causation", but it is a good starting point to find other possible causes for the low crime rates in those counties with lax gun control laws, and also why the most egregious crime rates ARE in those counties with the most onerous gun control laws.

But that's how a scientist would look at the issue, not a propagandist, such as yourself.

 

[JimH52]

Just another crazy white guy with guns. I am sure Benedict Donald is disappointed his skin was not darker. Then he could have ranted about the evil of all the non-whites.