More gun violence in Sweden....didn't hear about this in our media did we...

[2aguy]

You just pointed out how many whites shoot whites. That's not a comparison to the culture in general and not in comparison to any other subgroup.

The US death rate is 10 times that of Sweden. Over half of the US deaths are white. Swedish deaths are majority white, but cannot possibly be at as high rate as the US.

It takes some extrapolation, but I presumed you could do it. Apparently not.

Why do whites behave differently in the US? Could it be the relatively easy access to guns? My guess is you say no, regardless.

What death rate exactly are you referring to? If it's guns then obviously accessibility to guns would have an impact. But if you're talking murder and the guns weren't as available then something else would still supplant guns as a means. The issue then becomes what would inspire a disparity in murder rates in general. The answer in large part is that Sweden's homogenous demographics reduce the chance of the existence of any feral segregated subculture like the one we have here.

Ahhh...but they are importing one.....violence is escalating in Sweden and other European countries as immigrant gangs get fully automatic weapons and fight over gang turf....

 

[2aguy]

and you debate this like a 10 year old....true or false....would Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin love to shoot and inspect a modern day weapon?...now be a good 10 year old and refuse to answer this question and keep dancing around it,all because you know they would love too...

I suspect they would be more amazed by the telephone, TV, airplanes and the microwave oven, and more disheartened by the rise of Callous Conservatism and how the power elite (the new nobility) control and dishonor the Republic they left to us.

no doubt but we were talking about guns....

True, too much talk, too little resolution and too few contributors. What's your take on the issue of licensing?

of guns?....

Yep. More explicitly, allow the State of CA and any state which wanted to, to require a license in order to legally own, possess or have in one's custody or control a gun while a resident or visitor to the St. of CA.

Again...you have yet to explain what a license does to stop violent gun crime......making law abiding people get a license stops criminals and mass shooters how exactly? You still won't explain the mechanics of that process....

I know the words..."require a gun owners to get a license" sounds good in your head when you say it....but it has no real world practical result to stop crime.........

Please show us how that works....

 

[2aguy]

...the thought that one of those guys would love to try a modern weapon just fucks up your thought patterns dont it?...

No, not really. It only affirms my belief that you think about guns like a 12 year old.

and you debate this like a 10 year old....true or false....would Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin love to shoot and inspect a modern day weapon?...now be a good 10 year old and refuse to answer this question and keep dancing around it,all because you know they would love too...

I suspect they would be more amazed by the telephone, TV, airplanes and the microwave oven, and more disheartened by the rise of Callous Conservatism and how the power elite (the new nobility) control and dishonor the Republic they left to us.

no doubt but we were talking about guns....

True, too much talk, too little resolution and too few contributors. What's your take on the issue of licensing?

What does licensing do that we can't do already without forcing law abiding gun owners to get a license....?

Right now, with the laws we have, if someone uses a gun to commit a crime they can be arrested and put in jail. True or False?

So if the above is true, which it is, why do we have to have a license to own a gun?

Right now, with the laws we have, if a felon is caught in possession of a gun, either in his home or on his person, he can be arrested and sent back to prison. True or False?

So if the above is true, which it is, why do we have to have a license to own a gun?

If I am a law abiding citizen and stopped by police, and they ask me if I have a gun, and I say yes....they can then run my name and birth date from their car, and find out if I have a prior felony. If I don't, then I can legally own and carry a gun. No license is needed in that case........right?

If a felon is stopped by police and they ask if he has a gun and if he lies or tells the truth and they run his name and birth date and find out he is a convicted felon, and they search him and find a gun, they can arrest him on the spot.....it is against the law for a convicted felon to have in his posssession a fire arm...right....? So he can be arrested without licensing law abiding gun owners...right?

So if all of the above is true wry.....then what is the purpose of a license? Other than to generate revenue for the state, inconvenience and harras law abiding gun owners, and create an offense for law abiding citizens if they don't have the license...so they can then be arrested for not having the license, thereby creating a crime that is not needed to be created, other than to catch otherwise law abiding citizens...right?

Oh...and it is the first step in setting up a data base for the future banning, confiscation or forced turn ins of whatever make and model of guns the anti gun extremists can get the poltical capital to enforce......right?

 

[candycorn]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

 

[2aguy]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer

-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....

 

[2aguy]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

And here you twit....the truth about guns being the most effective way to stop rape....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

 

[2aguy]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

And here you stupid twit....and actual event in Florida showing how effective guns were at preventing rape....


http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun%20Ownership%20Stops%20Rape/

In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.
Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women. However,
more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm. They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

Self-defense with guns: The consequences

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

 

[2aguy]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

You do realize that european criminals can get guns just as easily as Americans can...right? There own law enforcement agencies have reported on this...you know that...right?

 

[candycorn]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

You do realize that european criminals can get guns just as easily as Americans can...right? There own law enforcement agencies have reported on this...you know that...right?

Incredibly incorrect.

 

[candycorn]

We have thousands of gun deaths per year.
We have more guns on the streets and in the hands of citizens than most of the world's armies.

Yet we're told by gun nuts that guns in the hands make us safer.

We can believe the gun nuts or we can believe the statistics we all know to be true and is verified by the news and the sights we see in our local trauma centers.

The simple minded will believe the simple minded. The sane and the somewhat educated will believe the statistics and their own eyeballs.

 

[2aguy]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

You do realize that european criminals can get guns just as easily as Americans can...right? There own law enforcement agencies have reported on this...you know that...right?

Incredibly incorrect.

Yes...you are wrong...European criminals have easy access to fully automatic rifles, 30 round magazines, grenades and rocket propelled grenades.....European law enforcement says so....

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

http://time.com/3687334/arms-smuggling-europe-balkans/

aanother story on ease terrorists get guns....

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard, but terrorists have little trouble

 

[2aguy]

We have thousands of gun deaths per year.
We have more guns on the streets and in the hands of citizens than most of the world's armies.

Yet we're told by gun nuts that guns in the hands make us safer.

We can believe the gun nuts or we can believe the statistics we all know to be true and is verified by the news and the sights we see in our local trauma centers.

The simple minded will believe the simple minded. The sane and the somewhat educated will believe the statistics and their own eyeballs.

Look dipstick....we have a gun murder rate in 2013 of 8,454 people...in a country of over 320 million people with over 320 million guns...

Each year on average Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 2 million times a year...

So.....8,454 vs. 2 million.

Which number is bigger?

 

[2aguy]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

You do realize that european criminals can get guns just as easily as Americans can...right? There own law enforcement agencies have reported on this...you know that...right?

Incredibly incorrect.

I know you are a lefty...so the Truth, and Reality don't exist in your world....but for the rest of us, the Truth and Reality actually matter.....and here is the truth and reality about guns in Europe...


http://time.com/3687334/arms-smuggling-europe-balkans/




But although the police quickly traced the weapons source in the Paris attacks, stopping criminals and other jihadist cells in Europe from acquiring assault weapons for further attacks might not be so easy, according to police officials.

Many of the weapons circulating in Europe hail from southeastern Europe, where big military arsenals were left abandoned during the collapse of Yugoslavia and the Balkan wars of the 1990s. At least a million other weapons are believed to have been looted during an outbreak of anarchy in Albania in 1997. “There are stockpiles in the Balkans of 2 [million] to 3 million [weapons] left over from the 1990s, available for recycling,” says Donald.

French police believe rifles are on sale in French cities for between €1,000 and €1,500. Earlier this month, Philippe Capon, head of the French police union UNSA, told Bloomberg News, “The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms.” A French police source told TIME that the weapons from the Charlie Hebdoattack came from the Balkans.

That is not the only source of weaponry. Donald says he fears that the continent might be facing a fresh influx of weapons from North Africa in the wake of the Arab Spring revolts. In August, 2011, Libyan rebels looted large quantities of mortars, tank shells and other munitions when Moammar Gaddafi’s regime collapsed. Although most of those weapons are believed to have filtered across North and West Africa, some could also have made their way to Europe.

The arms traffickers have flourished in the absence of well-financed antiweapons units in Europe, where law enforcement has for years tended to plow money into stopping drug-dealing and other crimes. “We don’t fully understand the scale of the problem because we have not had specialized units,” says Donald, referring to law-enforcement agencies in different E.U. countries. “It is a question of priorities. Any police officer will tell you it [resources] is a constant struggle.”

The trade in illegal weapons can earn enormous profits for organized criminal gangs — enough to make the risk of capture worthwhile. Donald says recent investigations have found arms traffickers investing about €30,000 in a shipment of Balkan-era weapons, refurbishing them in their garages, then selling them for them for about 10 times the price. “That’s a huge mark-up,” he says.

As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”

17
AROUND THE WEB

 

[2aguy]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

You do realize that european criminals can get guns just as easily as Americans can...right? There own law enforcement agencies have reported on this...you know that...right?

Incredibly incorrect.

More truth......


Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard, but terrorists have little trouble



In contrast with the free-firing United States, Europe is generally seen as a haven from serious gun violence. Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.

“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”

European leaders have made tighter controls on weapons trafficking a priority in recent weeks, following the killing of 17 people in Paris by three attackers. The shootings in Copenhagen this past weekend, which left two people dead, raised the ominous prospect of copycat attacks across Europe.

But officials acknowledge there is no clear solution. The same open-border policies that allow people and goods to flow freely across the continent also make it extremely difficult to crack down on illegal weapons — a fact that arms dealers have been all too eager to exploit.

“You can find Kalashnikovs for sale near the train station in Brussels,” acknowledged a Brussels-based European Union official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record. “They’re available even to very average criminals.”

In the case of the Paris attackers, they were able to obtain an entire arsenal: AK-47 assault rifles, pistols, a Skorpion submachine gun and even a rocket-propelled-grenade launcher. All of it was purchased in Brussels for about $5,000, according to Belgian media reports.

The availability of such weapons in the heart of Western Europe isn’t new. The flood of high-powered weaponry began with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and continued through the 1990s as war raged across the Balkans. Many of the weapons from those periods are still circulating. They have lately been supplemented by an influx from the turmoil in North Africa, with weapons smuggled on ships across the Mediterranean.


The guns have been used primarily by criminal gangs that turn them on one another during periodic turf wars.

But beginning with attacks in the French city of Toulouse in 2012 that left seven people dead, guns have also become the weapon of choice for Islamist terrorists in Europe.

 

[2aguy]

We have thousands of gun deaths per year.
We have more guns on the streets and in the hands of citizens than most of the world's armies.

Yet we're told by gun nuts that guns in the hands make us safer.

We can believe the gun nuts or we can believe the statistics we all know to be true and is verified by the news and the sights we see in our local trauma centers.

The simple minded will believe the simple minded. The sane and the somewhat educated will believe the statistics and their own eyeballs.

Guns do make us safer....they stop rape and robbery and murder.....ask those who used their guns to stop violent attackers....

The statistics are not on your side.....guns are used more often to stop crime than to cause it...to save lives than to take them......

 

[candycorn]

Obviously, the rest of the world is doing something right and we're doing something wrong. More deaths=something wrong.

You mean the 12 million people Europe handed over to the German death camps....and almost all of them handed over unarmed, innocent men, women and children to be murdered.

And keep in mind....each year Americans use private guns to stop violent crime and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....lives saved, lives spared the horrors of violent attack......and one day may keep millions from being sent to new death camps.

You're beyond stupid. Both in characterizing German invasions as countries "handing over" citizens and to keep posting the well-disproven lie of guns saving lives. We have more guns than any civilization in history. For your lie to be true--that guns save lives--we would have almost no crime given the number of guns we have. But no, we have more gun deaths an any other developed nation on earth.

Those are the facts, now back to your lie-fest.

You do realize that european criminals can get guns just as easily as Americans can...right? There own law enforcement agencies have reported on this...you know that...right?

Incredibly incorrect.

Yes...you are wrong...European criminals have easy access to fully automatic rifles, 30 round magazines, grenades and rocket propelled grenades.....European law enforcement says so....

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

http://time.com/3687334/arms-smuggling-europe-balkans/

aanother story on ease terrorists get guns....

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard, but terrorists have little trouble

From your source:

"One country that has largely succeeded in keeping illicit firearms out is the United Kingdom. Because Britain does not participate in the continent’s open-borders program — and because it is an island with strictly enforced weapons laws — guns are rare. Out of desperation, criminals and would-be terrorists in Britain have occasionally turned to antique weaponry — flintlock pistols and Wild West-style revolvers — as the most deadly options available."

They did it, we should do it and stop the violence.

Also there is this from a gun dealer...
“As I see it,” said Rigby, the Copenhagen gun dealer, “more guns on the streets only means more trouble.”

Thanks for bringing it up and shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[HappyJoy]

Gun nuts are stupid, not worth reasoning with them.

A partial list of some "gun nuts": John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington.

I don't think they would recognize our guns.

i bet they would like to try some of them....and would want one....

Great, you acknowledge the 2nd amendment was written by individuals who had no idea what a semi-automatic weapon is. Pretend how they would react, it's irrelevant. It's up to us today to make those decisions, not Thomas Jefferson's alleged hard on for a Ruger.

And the First amendment was written with no idea of the internet....I guess we don't get that either..right?

And there the years there have been numerous laws written to curtail first amendment rights. Copyright laws, anti-child poronography laws, slander laws. Just like it's illegal now to own many arms.

 

[HappyJoy]

...the thought that one of those guys would love to try a modern weapon just fucks up your thought patterns dont it?...

No, not really. It only affirms my belief that you think about guns like a 12 year old.

and you debate this like a 10 year old....true or false....would Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin love to shoot and inspect a modern day weapon?...now be a good 10 year old and refuse to answer this question and keep dancing around it,all because you know they would love too...

You're asking a ridiculous hypothetical.

 

[HappyJoy]

A partial list of some "gun nuts": John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington.

I don't think they would recognize our guns.

i bet they would like to try some of them....and would want one....

Great, you acknowledge the 2nd amendment was written by individuals who had no idea what a semi-automatic weapon is. Pretend how they would react, it's irrelevant. It's up to us today to make those decisions, not Thomas Jefferson's alleged hard on for a Ruger.

And the First amendment was written with no idea of the internet....I guess we don't get that either..right?

Will someone dart this loon already so he`ll quit talking to himself. 9 stupid ass posts in a row.

He sand bags, doesn't matter if he makes any sense or not all he is trying to do is get you to stop replying to him. To do so, you have to cut off multiple heads of a fictitious monster that he has created out of gun nut propaganda.

 

[candycorn]

We have thousands of gun deaths per year.
We have more guns on the streets and in the hands of citizens than most of the world's armies.

Yet we're told by gun nuts that guns in the hands make us safer.

We can believe the gun nuts or we can believe the statistics we all know to be true and is verified by the news and the sights we see in our local trauma centers.

The simple minded will believe the simple minded. The sane and the somewhat educated will believe the statistics and their own eyeballs.

Guns do make us safer....they stop rape and robbery and murder.....ask those who used their guns to stop violent attackers....

The statistics are not on your side.....guns are used more often to stop crime than to cause it...to save lives than to take them......

Again, if guns made us safer, we'd have less homicides than any other industrialized nation. Instead, we lead all developed nations.

The Statistics are on my side.

You have stated repeatedly:

Each year on average Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives 2 million times a year...
The stat is laughably incorrect and makes you look insanely stupid. Simple math disproves it.

Two million or 2,000,000 (strange how it's a nice round number)

2,000,000 divided by 365 = 5479.45 times per day someone breaks out their piece and fends of a "violent criminal attack". Nobody knows if it was a "violent criminal attack" since, you know, according to you....they stopped it. In other words, it's not some guy who is in your yard or some guy breaking into your car; it's some guy trying to harm your physical self. So during the attack, 2,000,000 individual Americans whipped out their piece and fended off an attacker? Keep in mind the 2,000,000 figure is the same population as Houston, Phoenix, San Antonio, etc...
City Mayors: Largest 100 US cities

Anyway, the gun nut wants us to believe that 5,480 times a day, every day, someone fends off an attacker using a gun. For that to be true, that would mean that every minute of every day, 3.80 people are using a gun to stop a "violent criminal attack". According to the FBI, a "violent crime" takes place once every 26 seconds (actually 25.3 seconds) meaning that in one minute, there are slightly over 2 violent crimes. Crime Clock

So, the gun nut wants us to believe that the rate of 2 per minute would almost rise 200% to 5.8 times a minute.

I swear to God folks, you can't make up the insanity he gives you for free.

And in closing; you also have to realize that the gun nut is saying this happens "per year". So not only is it happening 4 times every minute of every day of every month of every year....this is happening every year. We have had this gun issue pretty much since the 1980's when Lennon was killed by a maniac with a gun, Reagan was shot by a maniac with a gun and some maniac took his Uzi to McDonalds in San Diego (bet ya'll had forgot about that one) and wasted on 19 people; the cause? He thought we were on the brink of collapse; this was 1989 folks. You hear the same rhetoric today; usually from gun nuts.
San Ysidro McDonald's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, lets split the difference since 1989 (26 years ago). Lets say since 2002, we've had this hilarious 2,000,000 figure. That means that 26,000,000 times a citizen has supposedly stopped a "violent crime" using their weapon. Unless you're really unlucky, it would likely mean that this was 26 million different Americans who stopped a violent crime with a gun.

If that was true; don't you think you'd see bullet holes in the sides of buildings; hear constant gun fire, or know multiple people who have taken their gun and fended off attackers??? I know of no one who has done this. I am pretty sure you who are reading this know of nobody who has done this.

Anyway, you'd have to be a fool to believe anything the gun nuts say. Obviously, they are fighting for relevance and are collectively pissed off that they are having to carry guns into Chili's to try to make a point (you don't see other activists doing this do you?) . But to believe this silly statistic; you have to suspend reality.