More refuse to stand for the Anthem. Good News...this time its no white people so you can be angry

[Asclepias]

To all of you who are suggesting objectors go live somewhere else, it has never been
America: Love it or Leave it

It has always been
America: Love it or Change it.

You are all at it all the time. Everyone has that right without being told to leave.

Lol.."Love It, Change It". If you want to change it, you obviously don't love it as much as you pretend to.

I've never loved it. I only tolerate it until I can move to another country. I do appreciate some of its freedoms though.

good luck, hope you like it

I love it. I've been there several times already.

S.A. ?

No.

 

[Yarddog]

That racist fuck Closed Caption was LYING?

Shocked I am! SHOCKED...

Oh dear did Uncensored call someone a liar without reason? Wow, it must be a day of the week then

Sorry, but I just don't see the Leap into how the writer is celebrating the killing of slaves who want to be free.

it wasnt actually a leap and millions of others have the same opinion.

It sure looks like a leap to me. Millions who were probably already against America and looking for something else. Its just another part of the concerted effort to bring down any sense of pride or validity to the founding of the country.


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?

I dont see how this is refering to slaves, and if you take the whole poem in context, the one reference to slaves
was a minor note. the guy was looking for words that rhimed. Brave, wave, slave and grave.. holy shit!! people sometimes read to much into things.

My bad. I wasnt talking about that part. I was talking about the part that actually said the word slave.

You know, I cant agree with you on that, I'm looking at the overall meaning of the poem and celebrating the murder of slaves does not come to mind. I do have this image though of British and Americans firing cannons at each other however. Seems to me if you look for racism everywhere, your going to find it even if its not there

 

[Asclepias]

Oh dear did Uncensored call someone a liar without reason? Wow, it must be a day of the week then

Sorry, but I just don't see the Leap into how the writer is celebrating the killing of slaves who want to be free.

it wasnt actually a leap and millions of others have the same opinion.

It sure looks like a leap to me. Millions who were probably already against America and looking for something else. Its just another part of the concerted effort to bring down any sense of pride or validity to the founding of the country.


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?

I dont see how this is refering to slaves, and if you take the whole poem in context, the one reference to slaves
was a minor note. the guy was looking for words that rhimed. Brave, wave, slave and grave.. holy shit!! people sometimes read to much into things.

My bad. I wasnt talking about that part. I was talking about the part that actually said the word slave.

You know, I cant agree with you on that, I'm looking at the overall meaning of the poem and celebrating the murder of slaves does not come to mind. I do have this image though of British and Americans firing cannons at each other however. Seems to me if you look for racism everywhere, your going to find it even if its not there

I would never expect you to agree with it. I was just telling you how it really is so you cant say you werent informed. Basically Keyes bragged about the US forces beating former slaves that were fighting to remain free. Not only is that weird he took pride in beating a rag tag group of untrained former slaves, it clearly defines him as a racist that would have fought for the confederates had he been around.

 

[GLASNOST]

I am a fellow country person of Kaepernick.

And he is a fellow country person of yours. What you do and what you say affects him just as much as what he says and does affects you.

The man is playing a child's game. He is an entertainer. He is good at what he does. Talent should be rewarded. But I have no respect for this fellow because he is using racial politics in a way that is greatly exaggerated if not a lie, in my opinion. He's a egotist that is strutting around like a peacock. I don't believe this guys motives one bit. He is promoting himself as a iconoclast fighting the power.

Whatever his strutting, you share the blame. He is walking the same pavement as Muhammad Ali, a man that you (collectively speaking) have honoured and cherished. You say Kaepernick's racial politics is greatly exaggerated, or even a lie. Because of that opinion you share the blame doubly.

 

[GLASNOST]

Glastnost, what does the American flag stand for, to you?

To me? It stands for the reality of what it is. No dreams. No imagination:

Vietnam

Cambodia

Virtually all of Latin America

Agent Orange

Operation TP Ajax

The Tuskegee Experiment

MK ULTRA

Operation Northwoods

Non-existent WMD's in Irak

The illegal invasion and occupation of that country

The Magic Bullet at Dealey Plaza

Water Gate

Iran Gate

Monsanto

Cooking the presidential ballots in Florida

The Military-Industrial Complex

The creation, funding and support of Al Qaida & ISIS

Bikini Island

Racism

Police Brutality

Drive-by Shootings

Post office shootings

Church shootings

Road Rage shootings

Kindergarten shootings

Jr. High shootings

High school shootings

College shootings

University shootings

Shopping Mall shootings

Abu Graib

Guantanamo detention centre

Torture



… there's lots, lots more but I can see that you're already getting sleepy.

 

[Mac1958]

The National Anthem is racist.

It was only a matter of time.
.

Actually the part about killing slaves who want their freedom is race neutral

Anyone who stands during the National Anthem is a racist who wants an immediate return to slavery.

Absolutely. I really think you have this one dialed in.
.

I was wondering who was going to be first person to start whining and turn it into people wishing to stand are racist. Typical butthurt white guy behavior. You guys are the only people that can turn "I'm Black and I'm proud" into "Kill Whitey"

My white half is uninterested in your predictable, obedient, emotional, counterproductive opinion.

Unlike you, I want to see race relations improved, repaired. People like you are simply in the way.
.

I didnt reply because I cared if you were interested or not. I was going to advice you of the silliness of your comment whether you liked it or not.

I've long wanted whites to get help for their inferiority complex. If you think thats getting in the way I now have to lower my opinion of your intellect.

Gosh, it looks like I'll have to find a way to proceed without your approval.
.

 

[Mac1958]

This whole topic has been comically overblown.

Let 'em use a Lazy Boy™ if they want during the Anthem, who cares.

It's all drama & showbiz until the flamethrowers on both ends are marginalized and the adults actually start talking.
.

 

[GLASNOST]

Gosh, it looks like I'll have to find a way to proceed without your approval.

 

[GLASNOST]

This whole topic has been comically overblown.

Let 'em use a Lazy Boy™ if they want during the Anthem, who cares.

It's all drama & showbiz until the flamethrowers on both ends are marginalized and the adults actually start talking.

That is all true. But how many examples of political, current events are not drama & showbiz? All in all, this example of socks and Lazy Boys is fairly harmless. Shall we gather the drama & showbiz spirit and rejoin the discussion on Irak, the non-existent WMD's, and the million-plus innocent people who were raped, tortured and murdered there? Isn't THAT drama & showbiz at its worst? What harm are we inflicting by THIS discussion .... one that you yourself have contributed?

 

[Mac1958]

This whole topic has been comically overblown.

Let 'em use a Lazy Boy™ if they want during the Anthem, who cares.

It's all drama & showbiz until the flamethrowers on both ends are marginalized and the adults actually start talking.

That is all true. But how many examples of political, current events are not drama & showbiz? All in all, this example of socks and Lazy Boys is fairly harmless. Shall we gather the drama & showbiz spirit and rejoin the discussion on Irak, the non-existent WMD's, and the million-plus innocent people who were raped, tortured and murdered there? Isn't THAT drama & showbiz at its worst? What harm are we inflicting by THIS discussion .... one that you yourself have contributed?

We've reached a point at which pretty much everything becomes hyper-politicized, meaning that it will be immediately dumbed down to talking points and bumper-sticker sloganeering, and most of the time will be polluted by the standard flamethrowers we see on this thread.

That said, there's nothing wrong with this discussion. And in fact, it provides yet another vivid example of my point: The whole issue has devolved into simplistic sloganeering, and the flamethrowers - who have zero (0) interest in seeing race relations actually improve - are in control of most of it.
.

 

[GLASNOST]

We've reached a point at which pretty much everything becomes hyper-politicized, meaning that it will be immediately dumbed down to talking points and bumper-sticker sloganeering, and most of the time will be polluted by the standard flamethrowers we see on this thread.

True, true, true.

That said, there's nothing wrong with this discussion. And in fact, it provides yet another vivid example of my point: The whole issue has devolved into simplistic sloganeering, and the flamethrowers - who have zero (0) interest in seeing race relations actually improve - are in control of most of it.
.

True again. But I was hoping that my response to you would coax your suggestion (as remedy) out of hiding. You do have one, yes?

 

[Mac1958]

We've reached a point at which pretty much everything becomes hyper-politicized, meaning that it will be immediately dumbed down to talking points and bumper-sticker sloganeering, and most of the time will be polluted by the standard flamethrowers we see on this thread.

True, true, true.

That said, there's nothing wrong with this discussion. And in fact, it provides yet another vivid example of my point: The whole issue has devolved into simplistic sloganeering, and the flamethrowers - who have zero (0) interest in seeing race relations actually improve - are in control of most of it.
.

True again. But I was hoping that my response to you would coax your suggestion (as remedy) out of hiding. You do have one, yes?

Seems to me that the first thing that needs to be done is that the flamethrowers need to be culturally marginalized. They have a right to be destructive flamethrowers (I'm a freedom of expression purist), so nothing of substance can be accomplished unless and until their attacks and ideas are essentially ignored so that actual healing can begin.

Once that has been accomplished to a sufficient degree, we're going to need "leaders" to bravely step forward and create a cultural momentum that can ultimately lead to honest discussions on race. And by "honest discussions", I mean that each "side" of this issue must be willing to look in the mirror and admit their mistakes, and commit to cleaning their OWN house before throwing stones at the other.

Where do these "leaders" come from? Everywhere. Politics. Media. Sports. Music. TV. Movies. Our country is so controlled by popular culture that popular culture will probably have to lead the way.

Now, if you're thinking "right, I don't see any of that happening in my lifetime", well, I'm afraid I agree. I don't see "leaders" who are brave enough to begin the needed momentum.
.

 

[GLASNOST]

Seems to me that the first thing that needs to be done is that the flamethrowers need to be culturally marginalized. They have a right to be destructive flamethrowers (I'm a freedom of expression purist), so nothing of substance can be accomplished unless and until their attacks and ideas are essentially ignored so that actual healing can begin.

Once that has been accomplished to a sufficient degree, we're going to need "leaders" to bravely step forward and create a cultural momentum that can ultimately lead to honest discussions on race. And by "honest discussions", I mean that each "side" of this issue must be willing to look in the mirror and admit their mistakes, and commit to cleaning their OWN house before throwing stones at the other.

Where do these "leaders" come from? Everywhere. Politics. Media. Sports. Music. TV. Movies. Our country is so controlled by popular culture that popular culture will probably have to lead the way.

Now, if you're thinking "right, I don't see any of that happening in my lifetime", well, I'm afraid I agree. I don't see "leaders" who are brave enough to begin the needed momentum.
.

I can agree with all of that. I think only that your theory is at somewhere between the 3rd. and 7th. stage. There is so much groundwork that needs doing before you can get to that. The masses are unwilling to lend a hand while they, themselves, are being trod upon. The system in the US (if you don't mind me saying it) is played out on 'dog eat dog' terms. I think that needs to be sorted out. The educational system is also far under par, internationally speaking. There is so much political propaganda and importance given to patriotism. These things are a scourge that plague knowledge. With that in mind, and the very subject at hand in this thread, it looks as though the vicious circle is complete.

 

[Mac1958]

Seems to me that the first thing that needs to be done is that the flamethrowers need to be culturally marginalized. They have a right to be destructive flamethrowers (I'm a freedom of expression purist), so nothing of substance can be accomplished unless and until their attacks and ideas are essentially ignored so that actual healing can begin.

Once that has been accomplished to a sufficient degree, we're going to need "leaders" to bravely step forward and create a cultural momentum that can ultimately lead to honest discussions on race. And by "honest discussions", I mean that each "side" of this issue must be willing to look in the mirror and admit their mistakes, and commit to cleaning their OWN house before throwing stones at the other.

Where do these "leaders" come from? Everywhere. Politics. Media. Sports. Music. TV. Movies. Our country is so controlled by popular culture that popular culture will probably have to lead the way.

Now, if you're thinking "right, I don't see any of that happening in my lifetime", well, I'm afraid I agree. I don't see "leaders" who are brave enough to begin the needed momentum.
.

I can agree with all of that. I think only that your theory is at somewhere between the 3rd. and 7th. stage. There is so much groundwork that needs doing before you can get to that. The masses are unwilling to lend a hand while they, themselves, are being trod upon. The system in the US (if you don't mind me saying it) is played out on 'dog eat dog' terms. I think that needs to be sorted out. The educational system is also far under par, internationally speaking. There is so much political propaganda and importance given to patriotism. These things are a scourge that plague knowledge. With that in mind, and the very subject at hand in this thread, it looks as though the vicious circle is complete.

Agreed. I think what I'm after would require some kind of shock to the system, in which a handful of the "leaders" to which I refer comes out and says "enough is enough".

Right now our "conversation on race" is simply grievance-based, both ends. Very elementary, simplistic, shallow. Both ends continue to do nothing but rehash the same tired arguments and fling them at the other. It's a sad reflection of our culture, and it's as clear as a bell.

We need some kind of shock to the system, a slap in the face. I don't know what else does it.
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Seems to me that the first thing that needs to be done is that the flamethrowers need to be culturally marginalized. They have a right to be destructive flamethrowers (I'm a freedom of expression purist), so nothing of substance can be accomplished unless and until their attacks and ideas are essentially ignored so that actual healing can begin.

Once that has been accomplished to a sufficient degree, we're going to need "leaders" to bravely step forward and create a cultural momentum that can ultimately lead to honest discussions on race. And by "honest discussions", I mean that each "side" of this issue must be willing to look in the mirror and admit their mistakes, and commit to cleaning their OWN house before throwing stones at the other.

Where do these "leaders" come from? Everywhere. Politics. Media. Sports. Music. TV. Movies. Our country is so controlled by popular culture that popular culture will probably have to lead the way.

Now, if you're thinking "right, I don't see any of that happening in my lifetime", well, I'm afraid I agree. I don't see "leaders" who are brave enough to begin the needed momentum.
.

I can agree with all of that. I think only that your theory is at somewhere between the 3rd. and 7th. stage. There is so much groundwork that needs doing before you can get to that. The masses are unwilling to lend a hand while they, themselves, are being trod upon. The system in the US (if you don't mind me saying it) is played out on 'dog eat dog' terms. I think that needs to be sorted out. The educational system is also far under par, internationally speaking. There is so much political propaganda and importance given to patriotism. These things are a scourge that plague knowledge. With that in mind, and the very subject at hand in this thread, it looks as though the vicious circle is complete.

I think you will agree that the first shovel ( the groundwork ) is establishing truth. I'm convinced that the inability for some to accept things which are true...factually true....as fact......is what derails progress in tackling this issue.

Allow me to state two truths which are undisputed by anyone who has any grasp on reality. Let's see if we can agree on them before we move on.

1) Black Americans face discrimination and unfair treatment in our legal system due to implicit or explicit racial bias.

2) As bigotry is learned behavior, telling an adult person who is not bigoted that he or she has said or done something that is bigoted.....does not lead said person to become a bigot.

 

[GLASNOST]

Agreed. I think what I'm after would require some kind of shock to the system, in which a handful of the "leaders" to which I refer comes out and says "enough is enough".

You mean an Alexander Dubček or a Mikhail Gorbachev. A man who does not want to destroy the system but determined to make it better .... to make it great, through sound and steadfast Democratic principles. Yeah. Sounds good to me.

Right now our "conversation on race" is simply grievance-based, both ends. Very elementary, simplistic, shallow. Both ends continue to do nothing but rehash the same tired arguments and fling them at the other. It's a sad reflection of our culture, and it's as clear as a bell.

Not very good, is it. I tried to point that out myself.

We need some kind of shock to the system, a slap in the face. I don't know what else does it.

You're probably right.

 

[sealybobo]

Lets get over the fact that the Anthem sings about how awesome it is to kill slaves when they have the nerve to want to be free. Everyone should stand to support that

I'm not going to stand for the national anthem until black people stop running from the cops and resisting arrest

 

[GLASNOST]

...........................

Allow me to state two truths ....................... Let's see if we can agree on them before we move on:

1) 'Black Americans face discrimination and unfair treatment in our legal system due to implicit or explicit racial bias.'
AGREE.

2) 'As bigotry is learned behavior, telling an adult person who is not bigoted that he or she has said or done something that is bigoted.....does not lead said person to become a bigot'.
As much as I think I understand it, I AGREE.

 

[LoneLaugher]

...........................

Allow me to state two truths ....................... Let's see if we can agree on them before we move on:

1) 'Black Americans face discrimination and unfair treatment in our legal system due to implicit or explicit racial bias.'
AGREE.

2) 'As bigotry is learned behavior, telling an adult person who is not bigoted that he or she has said or done something that is bigoted.....does not lead said person to become a bigot'.
As much as I think I understand it, I AGREE.

Excellent.

Now...let us wait for a little while and see if one or two more people can join us in a discussion of the matter which has truth at its foundation.

I will look forward to it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Sorry, but I find this all very amusing. We've got those who say this is all about the flag. A flag. Others say it's all about the country. A country. 'If you want change then you don't love it.' What does that mean? How do you 'love' a country in the first place? It's a fairy tale notion.

You are all arguing in abstract terms, senseless terms. It's like you think it's an omelette, it's made, either you like it or you don't. It's not an omelette. It's not a finished product. The US doesn't even live up to any of its promises, its' creed, its' constitution. I can't even begin to say how ridiculous I find it: A flag, a country. So when you say that's what it is about …. I'm thinking … who are these people?

Are you young or something? We were conditioned, man. The National Anthem gives me a chill, still to this day. I want to slap people who blatantly diss our president or burn our flag. It's just the way we were raised. Maybe it's not good, but I love our country, warts and all.

Conditioned is right. Sadly.