More than 1,000 weapons stashed at biker shooting scene

[Muhammed]

You use the term "weapons." How many were actual firearms, and how many were things like chains, shiv's, bats, crowbars, etc?

All 9 dead bikers were shot. How many do I need to make the point?

I don't think you have a point.

 

[orogenicman]

When I post statistics, I cite my sources. You? Not so much. Makes it more difficult to consider your claims to be credible, IMHO. By the way, your comparison of gun deaths with heart disease and cancer is simply ridiculous. Gun deaths are largely preventable. Get rid of the fucking guns. Japan managed to do it. Are you saying that Japan is better than we are because we must have guns to be safe while they don't? No wonder we are sliding into the third world.

Problem is...Your statistics don't support your conclusions. Mine they support.

Japan is a totally different situation. They have an extremely harsh penal code and strict drug enforcement, they raise their children to fear and respect authority and they are living on an a series of islands with right immigration controls.

BTW, suicide is big in Japan....regardless the almost total absence of guns.

Japan has the lowest gun death rate in the industrialized world, and one of the lowest incarceration rates. You make it sound like have a strict penal code and drug enforcement is a bad thing. Let's see. You are saying that Americans were never raised to fear and respect authority? Because from where I sit, that has always been a part of Americana. As for tight immigration controls, I agree that is a problem for them because they are causing them a lot of economic problems, something that immigration fear mongers here in the states should think about more seriously. But those immigration controls have nothing to do with the fact that they don't allow guns.

You're just trying to save face at this point.

The problem in America isn't guns.....it's both economic and societal. Poverty and a lack of respect for our laws leads to crime. Our president literally encourages lawbreaking. Anyone who attacks police officers are intentionally making the situation worse. Obama has worked diligently at causing income stagnation while purposefully jacking up the costs of food and energy.

The best way to decrease poverty is to provide jobs. Obama simply makes it extremely difficult to do business in America....at the same time he's bringing in hundreds of thousands of refugees from Central America and the Middle-East. He also has been turning loose tens of thousands of convicted criminals. Just letting them roam the streets looking for trouble.

Of course crime is going up. We have a criminal running the Whitehouse who was put there by one of the most notorious criminal organizations in our history.....The Weather Underground.

Right. According to the gun lobby, the problem with America is never the guns - it's Americans themselves. Get real.

I've owned a firearm for more than 40 years and it's NEVER fired itself. People ARE the problem. You get real.

And yet it happens all the time.

 

[hunarcy]

Problem is...Your statistics don't support your conclusions. Mine they support.

Japan is a totally different situation. They have an extremely harsh penal code and strict drug enforcement, they raise their children to fear and respect authority and they are living on an a series of islands with right immigration controls.

BTW, suicide is big in Japan....regardless the almost total absence of guns.

Japan has the lowest gun death rate in the industrialized world, and one of the lowest incarceration rates. You make it sound like have a strict penal code and drug enforcement is a bad thing. Let's see. You are saying that Americans were never raised to fear and respect authority? Because from where I sit, that has always been a part of Americana. As for tight immigration controls, I agree that is a problem for them because they are causing them a lot of economic problems, something that immigration fear mongers here in the states should think about more seriously. But those immigration controls have nothing to do with the fact that they don't allow guns.

You're just trying to save face at this point.

The problem in America isn't guns.....it's both economic and societal. Poverty and a lack of respect for our laws leads to crime. Our president literally encourages lawbreaking. Anyone who attacks police officers are intentionally making the situation worse. Obama has worked diligently at causing income stagnation while purposefully jacking up the costs of food and energy.

The best way to decrease poverty is to provide jobs. Obama simply makes it extremely difficult to do business in America....at the same time he's bringing in hundreds of thousands of refugees from Central America and the Middle-East. He also has been turning loose tens of thousands of convicted criminals. Just letting them roam the streets looking for trouble.

Of course crime is going up. We have a criminal running the Whitehouse who was put there by one of the most notorious criminal organizations in our history.....The Weather Underground.

Right. According to the gun lobby, the problem with America is never the guns - it's Americans themselves. Get real.

I've owned a firearm for more than 40 years and it's NEVER fired itself. People ARE the problem. You get real.

And yet it happens all the time.

What happens is that people who SHOULD be in prison aren't there because soft hearted clowns want to give them "one more chance" because they've "had hard circumstances" and they victimize the rest of us. You want to hold a THING responsible because you don't have the moral courage to hold the person responsible.

 

[orogenicman]

Japan has the lowest gun death rate in the industrialized world, and one of the lowest incarceration rates. You make it sound like have a strict penal code and drug enforcement is a bad thing. Let's see. You are saying that Americans were never raised to fear and respect authority? Because from where I sit, that has always been a part of Americana. As for tight immigration controls, I agree that is a problem for them because they are causing them a lot of economic problems, something that immigration fear mongers here in the states should think about more seriously. But those immigration controls have nothing to do with the fact that they don't allow guns.

You're just trying to save face at this point.

The problem in America isn't guns.....it's both economic and societal. Poverty and a lack of respect for our laws leads to crime. Our president literally encourages lawbreaking. Anyone who attacks police officers are intentionally making the situation worse. Obama has worked diligently at causing income stagnation while purposefully jacking up the costs of food and energy.

The best way to decrease poverty is to provide jobs. Obama simply makes it extremely difficult to do business in America....at the same time he's bringing in hundreds of thousands of refugees from Central America and the Middle-East. He also has been turning loose tens of thousands of convicted criminals. Just letting them roam the streets looking for trouble.

Of course crime is going up. We have a criminal running the Whitehouse who was put there by one of the most notorious criminal organizations in our history.....The Weather Underground.

Right. According to the gun lobby, the problem with America is never the guns - it's Americans themselves. Get real.

I've owned a firearm for more than 40 years and it's NEVER fired itself. People ARE the problem. You get real.

And yet it happens all the time.

What happens is that people who SHOULD be in prison aren't there because soft hearted clowns want to give them "one more chance" because they've "had hard circumstances" and they victimize the rest of us. You want to hold a THING responsible because you don't have the moral courage to hold the person responsible.

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has the largest prison population on the planet. I do hold people responsible. I hold the NRA, and the gun manufacturers responsible. I hold our gutless political leaders responsible.

 

[hunarcy]

You're just trying to save face at this point.

The problem in America isn't guns.....it's both economic and societal. Poverty and a lack of respect for our laws leads to crime. Our president literally encourages lawbreaking. Anyone who attacks police officers are intentionally making the situation worse. Obama has worked diligently at causing income stagnation while purposefully jacking up the costs of food and energy.

The best way to decrease poverty is to provide jobs. Obama simply makes it extremely difficult to do business in America....at the same time he's bringing in hundreds of thousands of refugees from Central America and the Middle-East. He also has been turning loose tens of thousands of convicted criminals. Just letting them roam the streets looking for trouble.

Of course crime is going up. We have a criminal running the Whitehouse who was put there by one of the most notorious criminal organizations in our history.....The Weather Underground.

Right. According to the gun lobby, the problem with America is never the guns - it's Americans themselves. Get real.

I've owned a firearm for more than 40 years and it's NEVER fired itself. People ARE the problem. You get real.

And yet it happens all the time.

What happens is that people who SHOULD be in prison aren't there because soft hearted clowns want to give them "one more chance" because they've "had hard circumstances" and they victimize the rest of us. You want to hold a THING responsible because you don't have the moral courage to hold the person responsible.

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has the largest prison population on the planet. I do hold people responsible. I hold the NRA, and the gun manufacturers responsible. I hold our gutless political leaders responsible.

The NRA has done nothing illegal. Gun manufacturers have done nothing illegal. Our "gutless" political leaders have done the will of the people in the area of gun rights and ignored clowns like you. I like that.

 

[orogenicman]

Right. According to the gun lobby, the problem with America is never the guns - it's Americans themselves. Get real.

I've owned a firearm for more than 40 years and it's NEVER fired itself. People ARE the problem. You get real.

And yet it happens all the time.

What happens is that people who SHOULD be in prison aren't there because soft hearted clowns want to give them "one more chance" because they've "had hard circumstances" and they victimize the rest of us. You want to hold a THING responsible because you don't have the moral courage to hold the person responsible.

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has the largest prison population on the planet. I do hold people responsible. I hold the NRA, and the gun manufacturers responsible. I hold our gutless political leaders responsible.

The NRA has done nothing illegal. Gun manufacturers have done nothing illegal. Our "gutless" political leaders have done the will of the people in the area of gun rights and ignored clowns like you. I like that.

Legal behavior doesn't automatically equate to moral behavior.

 

[hunarcy]

I've owned a firearm for more than 40 years and it's NEVER fired itself. People ARE the problem. You get real.

And yet it happens all the time.

What happens is that people who SHOULD be in prison aren't there because soft hearted clowns want to give them "one more chance" because they've "had hard circumstances" and they victimize the rest of us. You want to hold a THING responsible because you don't have the moral courage to hold the person responsible.

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has the largest prison population on the planet. I do hold people responsible. I hold the NRA, and the gun manufacturers responsible. I hold our gutless political leaders responsible.

The NRA has done nothing illegal. Gun manufacturers have done nothing illegal. Our "gutless" political leaders have done the will of the people in the area of gun rights and ignored clowns like you. I like that.

Legal behavior doesn't automatically equate to moral behavior.

You are a perfect example of that, given your irrational fear of firearms and your NEED to limit the rights of those around you.

 

[orogenicman]

And yet it happens all the time.

What happens is that people who SHOULD be in prison aren't there because soft hearted clowns want to give them "one more chance" because they've "had hard circumstances" and they victimize the rest of us. You want to hold a THING responsible because you don't have the moral courage to hold the person responsible.

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has the largest prison population on the planet. I do hold people responsible. I hold the NRA, and the gun manufacturers responsible. I hold our gutless political leaders responsible.

The NRA has done nothing illegal. Gun manufacturers have done nothing illegal. Our "gutless" political leaders have done the will of the people in the area of gun rights and ignored clowns like you. I like that.

Legal behavior doesn't automatically equate to moral behavior.

You are a perfect example of that, given your irrational fear of firearms and your NEED to limit the rights of those around you.

I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid of the people who wield them, for whatever reason.

 

[hunarcy]

What happens is that people who SHOULD be in prison aren't there because soft hearted clowns want to give them "one more chance" because they've "had hard circumstances" and they victimize the rest of us. You want to hold a THING responsible because you don't have the moral courage to hold the person responsible.

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has the largest prison population on the planet. I do hold people responsible. I hold the NRA, and the gun manufacturers responsible. I hold our gutless political leaders responsible.

The NRA has done nothing illegal. Gun manufacturers have done nothing illegal. Our "gutless" political leaders have done the will of the people in the area of gun rights and ignored clowns like you. I like that.

Legal behavior doesn't automatically equate to moral behavior.

You are a perfect example of that, given your irrational fear of firearms and your NEED to limit the rights of those around you.

I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid of the people who wield them, for whatever reason.

THAT'S the right thing to fear! We should control THEM, not waste time on firearms. Why aren't the mentally ill getting the mental health treatments they need? Why do we let them refuse it, when we know they aren't well or capable of making the right choice? Why aren't violent criminals in prison? Firearms don't fire themselves. It's the PERSON that must be dealt with, not banning a gun.

 

[orogenicman]

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has the largest prison population on the planet. I do hold people responsible. I hold the NRA, and the gun manufacturers responsible. I hold our gutless political leaders responsible.

The NRA has done nothing illegal. Gun manufacturers have done nothing illegal. Our "gutless" political leaders have done the will of the people in the area of gun rights and ignored clowns like you. I like that.

Legal behavior doesn't automatically equate to moral behavior.

You are a perfect example of that, given your irrational fear of firearms and your NEED to limit the rights of those around you.

I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid of the people who wield them, for whatever reason.

THAT'S the right thing to fear! We should control THEM, not waste time on firearms. Why aren't the mentally ill getting the mental health treatments they need? Why do we let them refuse it, when we know they aren't well or capable of making the right choice? Why aren't violent criminals in prison? Firearms don't fire themselves. It's the PERSON that must be dealt with, not banning a gun.

So you are going to ban people?

 

[hunarcy]

The NRA has done nothing illegal. Gun manufacturers have done nothing illegal. Our "gutless" political leaders have done the will of the people in the area of gun rights and ignored clowns like you. I like that.

Legal behavior doesn't automatically equate to moral behavior.

You are a perfect example of that, given your irrational fear of firearms and your NEED to limit the rights of those around you.

I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid of the people who wield them, for whatever reason.

THAT'S the right thing to fear! We should control THEM, not waste time on firearms. Why aren't the mentally ill getting the mental health treatments they need? Why do we let them refuse it, when we know they aren't well or capable of making the right choice? Why aren't violent criminals in prison? Firearms don't fire themselves. It's the PERSON that must be dealt with, not banning a gun.

So you are going to ban people?

I think criminals should be in prison where they learn to meet the standards of behavior of our society. and the mentally ill should be in hospitals getting the help they need.

 

[orogenicman]

Legal behavior doesn't automatically equate to moral behavior.

You are a perfect example of that, given your irrational fear of firearms and your NEED to limit the rights of those around you.

I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid of the people who wield them, for whatever reason.

THAT'S the right thing to fear! We should control THEM, not waste time on firearms. Why aren't the mentally ill getting the mental health treatments they need? Why do we let them refuse it, when we know they aren't well or capable of making the right choice? Why aren't violent criminals in prison? Firearms don't fire themselves. It's the PERSON that must be dealt with, not banning a gun.

So you are going to ban people?

I think criminals should be in prison where they learn to meet the standards of behavior of our society. and the mentally ill should be in hospitals getting the help they need.

We have the largest prison population on the planet already. How is increasing that population going to solve an of our problems, particularly when what they learn in prison is how to be a better criminal?

 

[hunarcy]

You are a perfect example of that, given your irrational fear of firearms and your NEED to limit the rights of those around you.

I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid of the people who wield them, for whatever reason.

THAT'S the right thing to fear! We should control THEM, not waste time on firearms. Why aren't the mentally ill getting the mental health treatments they need? Why do we let them refuse it, when we know they aren't well or capable of making the right choice? Why aren't violent criminals in prison? Firearms don't fire themselves. It's the PERSON that must be dealt with, not banning a gun.

So you are going to ban people?

I think criminals should be in prison where they learn to meet the standards of behavior of our society. and the mentally ill should be in hospitals getting the help they need.

We have the largest prison population on the planet already. How is increasing that population going to solve an of our problems, particularly when what they learn in prison is how to be a better criminal?

Why don't we stop putting people into prison for non-violent offenses and that'd solve that. Or, is wringing your hands and focusing on things rather than behavior your style:

 

[Steinlight]

You are a perfect example of that, given your irrational fear of firearms and your NEED to limit the rights of those around you.

I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid of the people who wield them, for whatever reason.

THAT'S the right thing to fear! We should control THEM, not waste time on firearms. Why aren't the mentally ill getting the mental health treatments they need? Why do we let them refuse it, when we know they aren't well or capable of making the right choice? Why aren't violent criminals in prison? Firearms don't fire themselves. It's the PERSON that must be dealt with, not banning a gun.

So you are going to ban people?

I think criminals should be in prison where they learn to meet the standards of behavior of our society. and the mentally ill should be in hospitals getting the help they need.

We have the largest prison population on the planet already. How is increasing that population going to solve an of our problems, particularly when what they learn in prison is how to be a better criminal?

Crime has been going down since the 90s and peaked in the 80s as the prison population has increased. Keeping criminals in prisons seems to work.

 

[hipeter924]

So they had about 6 weapons each. It obviously wasn't enough though, since too many of their opponents are still alive.