MSNBC: Your Kids Don't Belong To You, They Belong To The Community

[The2ndAmendment]

Naw.

Ronald Reagan.

Maybe Sallow can answer these questions for us:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

What do each of these 6 lines means to you?

Question for you

Where in that quote does she mention the Government?

Answer what they mean to you, government or no government, it's your opinion, not mine.

-------------------------------------------------
I'll trade you answer for answer though.

I'll start:
She starts with "We need to make investments in public education"

She ends with "We'll start making better investment."

This is assumed to mean government unless she explicitly says otherwise.

YOUR TURN​

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Not quite.

We had a housing bubble because the government demanded it. The government now demands another housing bubble. It isn't that no one went to jail last time. It was that people and companies were punished last time for not participating in growing the housing bubble. It worked. It worked so well, that the government intends to do it again.

We had a housing bubble because of unchecked greed

We had a housing bubble because of politicians thinking it was their job to "help" people purchase something they couldn't afford.

Who do you think got greedy and made out like bandits? And who do you think greased these Congressmen? Thank you for unwittingly proving my point.

 

[rightwinger]

Maybe Sallow can answer these questions for us:




What do each of these 6 lines means to you?

Question for you

Where in that quote does she mention the Government?

Answer what they mean to you, government or no government, it's your opinion, not mine.

You seem to be an honest poster

I will gladly answer your question if you will answer mine

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Question for you

Where in that quote does she mention the Government?

Answer what they mean to you, government or no government, it's your opinion, not mine.

You seem to be an honest poster

I will gladly answer your question if you will answer mine

Question was answered above, I was editing during your response.

 

[kwc57]

We had a housing bubble because of unchecked greed

We had a housing bubble because of politicians thinking it was their job to "help" people purchase something they couldn't afford.

Who do you think got greedy and made out like bandits? And who do you think greased these Congressmen? Thank you for unwittingly proving my point.

Barney Frank

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Your question was answered, now fulfill your promise and answer my question.

 

[rightwinger]

Your question was answered, now fulfill your promise and answer my question.

Sorry.....you did not come close to answering my three questions. Answer my questions and I will provide a lengthy response to yours

Where in that quote does she mention the Government?
Where does she mention taking anyones children?
Where does she say children do not belong to you?

 

[Contumacious]

MSNBC: Your Kids Don't Belong To You, They Belong To The Community

Very Interrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrresting.

That is precisely what nazi Doctor Dr. Josef Mengele said:




Josef Mengele and the Nazi doctors tortured men, women and children and did medical experiments of unspeakable horror during the Holocaust. Victims were put into pressure chambers, tested with drugs, castrated, frozen to death. Children were exposed to experimental surgeries performed without anesthesia, transfusions of blood from one to another, isolation endurance, reaction to various stimuli. The Nazi doctors made injections with lethal germs, sex change operations, removal of organs and limbs.


.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Your question was answered, now fulfill your promise and answer my question.

Sorry.....you did not come close to answering my three questions. Answer my questions and I will provide a lengthy response to yours

A - Where in that quote does she mention the Government?
B - Where does she mention taking anyones children?
C - Where does she say children do not belong to you?

After I answer all three of these questions, I expect an immediate response to mine, NOT debate about my answers, UNTIL AFTER you have answered my questions.

Let us make sure we're working from the EXACT same transcript:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

A - Where does mention the government?

She starts by saying in Line 1

"WE have never invested in PUBLIC EDUCATION as much as WE should have.

Unless you know some form of public education that is NOT run by government, this automatically means government.

She ends by saying in Line 6

Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household

This can only be achieved through coercion via tax

we'll start making better investment

This is assumed to be investment in Public Education, since that is how she began this very small 95 word speech.

B - Where does she mention taking anyone's children
Line 4

So part of it is that we have to BREAK this private idea that kids belong to their parents, to their families.

This automatically means that all children do NOT belong to their parents and/or families, that the State is Sovereign our your children; by this definition, the government has taken your children, because you have no sovereignty, you only have your children so long as the government Consents and grants you that privilege.

She confirms this with line 5, that children belong to the Community. However, Community is synonymous with Government, since she began with "Public Education" and has yet to explicitly state in this VERY SMALL SPEECH that she was referring to any other entity.

Also, the end of line 1, line 2 and line 3 all support this conclusion.

C - Where does she say that the children do not belong to you

Line 5 - The Children belong to the Community (Public Education System - Government)

She also says that the State is Sovereign over your children, that automatically means the children belong to the government.

Line 2 kicks it in your face, deriding anyone who think that their children belong to them.


Now you tell me your interpretation BEFORE you argue my answers.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- Very scary, no connection to what she was talking about. BS brainwashing demagogging as always, for dupes only.

 

[Beachboy]

All your childs are belong to us...

The commercial sounded to me like that old theme of Hillary Clinton's, "It takes a village." to raise a child. Parents, and teachers can not bear all the burden of raising children in these times. There is too much information out there competing with education.

This nation needs a comprehensive review of education for the country. We are low on money, and our kids are not getting the education needed to deal with the challenges of the 21st century.

I am watching with great interest the actions of Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanuel as he closes inefficient schools, squeezes out ineffective teachers, and has taken a page out of the Republican playbook by creating charter schools for students who are deprived, and really trying to achieve. I agree with the Mayor that many of the poor are going directly from high school to jail. Let's see what he comes up with.

And that is because of parenting. No amount of education, community communism, or liberal indoctrination can change that.

I agree with you in part, for whatever the reasons, parents do not seem to be the dominant factor in raising a child. Television, internet, and play stations baby sit these kids after school while both parents are working. This leaves the child to pick up information from sources other than parents or teachers. My mom was always waiting at home when we came home from school to deal with the trials of my day.

I think we should be looking for some new answers to educate children, and government has always been a big part of that. I won't throw liberals under the bus, I have seen too many conservatives blow it with their own kids.

This is a problem that should be addressed the way we approach a business problem. We gather all the information available on child rearing in the 21st century, and come up with the best solutions we can. We should not close our eyes to any alternative no matter where it comes from.

Being a child in the 21st century is different than it was. Teens have the highest suicide rate of any group. What we are doing now clearly does not work.

 

[timidlady]

I am not a fan of children as property, generally. However, the United States does not recognize kids are people. They can't vote, can rarely be prosecuted in a way that effects their adult life and I can be punished for what my kids do. They are mine, definitely. Every aspect of the law acknowledges they are my property and responsibility until they are eighteen. Uh, mine. That said the super red rightists like to tout the constitution all the time......that would be "We the People" all the way. (I have zero political stance). Kids aren't people by the law.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I've answered all three question, uphold your end of the contract.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Like every other Progressive on this thread, RightWinger left in shame, and will not answer the questions based directly on the transcript.

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

What do each of these sentences mean to you?

 

[rightwinger]

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

She is simply stating that by assuming all responsibility is on the parents, we tend to skimp on public education. That if we care as a community, we will be more vested in the childrens success

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

Cuts to the meat of the issue. Conservatives are fucking assholes for believing that they raise their children completely on their own without help from family neighbors, schools, churches, civic groups....what we like to call.....a community

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

Again stressing the point that communities need to value their children and provide education opportunities, parks, playgrounds, civic groups, libraries,

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

. She again is referring to breaking the mold that your kids are not MY problem. That if a kid is not successful, that is his parents problem. It stresses the idea of a strong community structure to supplement parents who are struggling
5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

No kid should be abandoned, a kid who succeeds is a credit to the whole community. A kid who fails reflects on the community as well

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.
. A child does better with STRONG community involvement. Better schools, better recreation, better opportunities to excel. That is what a COMMUNITY gets you

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Thank for your answers. I agree with your own interpretations, but I do not agree with your translation of what she said.

You speak and think the same way I do:
Why are impoverished communities suffering from poor educational facilities?

Why aren't there enough qualified teachers?

Why are we spending so much money on the education budget for things that don't contribute tot he education of our children (see below).

However, there are many ways to deliver that message, and MSNBC delivers it in a Marxist tone. This is the outrage. It's not the "surface" message, it's the "foundation" of the message.

Wasted money, how to spend it better on education and get a better return, here are my answers, I'd like to know if you disagree or would add to this list.

Explain to me what costs you specifically include in "educating" a child:

Here's my list:
1) The transportation costs, purchasing the bus, maintaining the bus, paying the bus driver a salary equal the the MEDIAN salary of non-government workers. Also, using that bus in an efficient as possible a manner, that means you don't have a different fleet of buses for every local school; or you don't have 1 bus for every 5 kids.

2) Bare necessities: Electricity, water, school lunch for impoverished children, uniforms (that can be washed at school for impoverished children).

3) Staff: Teachers, one teacher per 20-30 students. Paid about 1.5 times the median salary of non-government workers. One administrative position per 100 students. So in a 600 student school you'd have one principal, two secretaries, one guidance cons, two armed guards (yep armed!)

Additional Staff: School cooks, one cafeteria monitor per 100 students in the cafeteria, janitors, crossing guard.

Everything else, like mowing the lawn, fixing computers, etc, would be a county or state level contract that covers all of the schools (good way to save money).

4) Accessories: Textbooks, pens/pencils/erasers/sharpeners, basic internet. One modern computer for every 20 children in the school. If we assume about 5 classes per grade level, and 6 grade levels in a primary school, you get about 38 computers, not too bad. Access to paper and folders for impoverished children. Decent desks. One per student.

5) Facilities: This is the actual construction, expansion and maintenance of the schools. These funds should come equally from the State government, no county/locality would receive any special favors for any reason.

6) Anything not listed here is gone, 100% eliminated. Wow! You wouldn't even need an overpaid Department of Education! That's right! The local curriculum would be decided upon by the teacher's who specialize in their subject (math, science, etc), and parents could volunteer to exempt their children from certain lessons, with both parental AND child consent (not either/or).

Wow, education would be mad cheap and damn effective under my system!

 

[rightwinger]

Mankind figured out a long time ago that we function better as a group than as a bunch of individuals. That is why we dominated the planet. He also figured out that nurturing the children made the group stronger in succeeding generations
The communities that do the best in this country are those that provide the best social structure. Not a social structure of every man for himself, but one where there is a strong community. Before Conservatives go apeshit this does not mean a government takeover of families but families supported by neighbors, churches, good schools, parks, recreation. Communities that look out for each other
This is what Harris was talking about

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Mankind figured out a long time ago that we function better as a group than as a bunch of individuals. That is why we dominated the planet. He also figured out that nurturing the children made the group stronger in succeeding generations
The communities that do the best in this country are those that provide the best social structure. Not a social structure of every man for himself, but one where there is a strong community. Before Conservatives go apeshit this does not mean a government takeover of families but families supported by neighbors, churches, good schools, parks, recreation. Communities that look out for each other
This is what Harris was talking about

That is what you and I are talking about, that is not what Harris is talking about.

Here is how she should have said it:

1) "We have never invested correctly in public education, nor paid much attention to the waste of money being spent --- for so little in return compared to other developed nations; because we have given too much attention to the outrageous pensions and benefits of our public employees, and have hired too many administrators instead of teachers; whilst ignoring the true educational needs of our children, placing far too much of the burden on overworked parents, often single mothers, who themselves never completed high school.

2) Your kid is yours, but your kid also lives within society, and must learn to interact and succeed within today's society, and this cannot be accomplished by any family alone, isolated from the community.

3) We have failed as local communities to provide the support and opportunities to our children; our schools are dilapidated, our class sizes too large, our teachers under-qualified and rewarded for failure, our failure as community to teach personal responsibility and general manners and ethics. We have placed too many burdens upon the working parents, and we cannot expect them to fulfill both the roles of the community and the roles of parents simultaneously.

4) So want we need to do is BREAK this vicious and unproductive cycle that we've been in for the past fifty years, and analyze the failures of the welfare state; because this system has only impoverished us all and left more young mothers single with multiple children than ever before in our history.

5) We must recognize that only an Individual can empower them self when they become self-reliant, that once they mature in adulthood, only they are responsible for their success and failure; we must recognize that the Community only succeeds when the Individuals within that community succeed.

6) Once we discern the problems in our current system, and make more calculated and proper investments in the education of our children, so that the household isn't left with the sole responsibility of upbringing their children properly, our communities will finally prosper.

Compare that to what she actually said:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

How do these contrast?

On line 1, she says we don't invest enough ... We're investing more than any other civilized nation.

On my line 1 - It's how you invest, not how much you invest.

From that terrible opening, I'll let you figure out the rest of the contrasts.

Finally, I'd like to refer back to post 42:

This thread is a magnet for the Communists. Especially the ones that don't realize they are communists.

I hope this was a sobering enlightenment.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Mankind figured out a long time ago that we function better as a group than as a bunch of individuals.

Only when all individuals in the collective are functioning.

We have a collective full of non-functioning individuals believed to be entitled and therefore dependent on the functioning individuals to make the collective function better.

 

[Antares]

My involvement in the "collective" will be in the most limited way imaginable.

I will never be involved because a few progressives demand that I be....I will be because I decide to and for no other reason.