MSNBC: Your Kids Don't Belong To You, They Belong To The Community

[Lakhota]

I haven't read this thread but I'll bet one dollar not a single conservative here understood what that commercial meant.

They were TOLD what it meant...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I haven't read this thread but I'll bet one dollar not a single conservative here understood what that commercial meant.

It's an open embrace of Communism

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I haven't read this thread but I'll bet one dollar not a single conservative here understood what that commercial meant.

Perry says this nation has a problem, that we don't invest enough in education. She diagnoses the problem, then provides a solution. First here's a copy of the transcript:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

To every non-communist (like most people), this was her diagnosis:
Currently, parents are sovereign over their children, thus our education is failing nationwide.

To every non-communist (like most people, this was her solution:
The government should be sovereign over your children, which will better our investments in education, without changing a single way in which we spend the money.

So, first let's fact check the first line:
We spend more per student than any other nation on Earth and get the worst return on our education than any other civilized country. However, let's forgive this error, and consider it a mistake. Perhaps she meant that we don't invest CORRECTLY. If we look at the final line, we see that she says "then we'll start making BETTER investments." Ok, so we'll give her a pass here, since she rectifies the error of the first line.

Well actually, since this was a well prepared PROMO ad, which was approved many times by their studio before they ran the ad, we actually CAN NOT forgive this for this error in such a short sub-100 word speech. This had to be intentional. This wasn't just something she said off the cuff.

But anyway, let's continue to give them the benefit of the doubt. Ok great, we're not investing correctly into the education of our children, we can mostly all agree on that. So what is their the solution, how will we start making better investments?

Oh, by making the State sovereign over your children, such that your children only belong to you as a privilege extended to you by the government; not by right, which must be abused before the government can intervene, no, now it's a privilege to have your children.

Apparently transferring Sovereignty from the parents to the government (over your children) will make public education investments "better." The way we're spending the money isn't the problem, it's you!

However, from that transcript, if you can discover some other diagnosis of the failures of the educational system of which she spoke, please enlighten me. Also, inform me of any hidden solutions she presented.

---------------
Here's is Melissa Perry's own defense today:

My inbox began filling with hateful, personal attacks on Monday, apparently as a result of conservative reactions to a recent “Lean Forward” advertisement now airing on MSNBC, which you can view above. What I thought was an uncontroversial comment on my desire for Americans to see children as everyone’s responsibility has created a bit of a tempest in the right’s teapot. Allow me to double down.

One thing is for sure: I have no intention of apologizing for saying that our children, all of our children, are part of more than our households, they are part of our communities and deserve to have the care, attention, resources, respect and opportunities of those communities.

When the flood of vitriolic responses to the ad began, my first reaction was relief. I had spent the entire day grading papers and was relieved that since these children were not my responsibility, I could simply mail the students’ papers to their moms and dads to grade! But of course, that is a ridiculous notion. As a teacher, I have unique responsibilities to the students in my classroom at Tulane University, and I embrace those responsibilities. It is why I love my job.

So those of you who were alarmed by the ad can relax. I have no designs on taking your children. Please keep your kids! But I understand the fear.

We do live in a nation where slaveholders took the infants from the arms of my foremothers and sold them for their own profit. We do live in a nation where the government snatched American Indian children from their families and “re-educated” them by forbidding them to speak their language and practice their traditions.

Ok, let's look at paragraph 1 (in Red):
Most of that hate mail and negative responses came from her own viewers. My grandmother who lives in the house with me watches MSNBC like 24/7. We've been arguing quite often since my departure from the Democratic party in early December (Sandy Hook). My grandmother, still being sharp, realized that the "Communist" paranoia (which she originally thought I was nuts for) is actually well founded. She was the first person to bring the attention of this ad to me, and said she was shocked.

I'm pretty sure this is the same story for many viewers, even if they will continue watching MSNBC. Melissa Harris Perry's time on the tv is quite short, I can guarantee that (UNLESS THIS WAS INTENDED BY MSNBC TO HAVE THIS EFFECT).

Paragraph 2 (In blue):
No one is disputing that. It's How you do it that we are disputing. Also your ad didn't mention a god damn thing that would solve those problems, other than transferring sovereignty over children from the parents to the government. I don't understand how changing the sovereignty would improve their education.

Paragraph 3 (in purple):
Sorry Melissa, but young adults in college ARE NOT CHILDREN. They are their own responsibility. You have obligations to fulfill your contract as a teacher/professor that they are PAYING YOU FOR.

Paragraph 4 (in green):
I know you don't have any intention of taking the children, unless some bureaucrat disapproves of how we are raising and instructing them. Your intention is to transfer lawful sovereignty over children from their parents to the government. Under this system, parents would only be able to keep their children if the government extends that privilege to you; you are completely at their mercy.

Paragraph 5 (in orange):
So since you understand that government only perpetuates evil when given that authority, why would you want to give them that authority again? Are you looking for REPARATIONS (she complained about slavery)?

 

[Lakhota]

Melissa nailed it.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Melissa nailed it.

She sure did. She said it just like it is, now you can all judge for yourselves, and don't say you weren't warned.


I hope to see you Communists on the battlefield when Daddy Gov drafts you to suppress the Rebellion of Freemen and Oathkeeping Soldiers.

 

[gslack]

The video says nothing of the kind......only that communities should be more involved with their children

NOPE WRONG!

The lady in the video clearly stated that the community owns the children.. Whats a community? A community is a group of people co-existing and cooperating for the betterment of themselves collectively. A society in this instance would be the collection of those communities. Which communities? Obviously only the ones she feels able to make the decisions she decides are best.

Simply put, she has put the society, or her ideal of it, above the people whom it is to serve..

Where does she say the community owns the children?
Where does she say anything about parents giving up parental rights?

are conservatives really this dumb?

This has been shown again and again.. Still haven't watched the video yet?

Critics slam MSNBC host?s claim that kids belong to community, not parents | Fox News

It's at the bottom, watch it and then we can talk...If you continue to deny the statements on the video, what is the point? She said it, it has been shown over and again, verbatim...

 

[gslack]

The video says nothing of the kind......only that communities should be more involved with their children

So, first let's fact check the first line:
We spend more per student than any other nation on Earth and get the worst return on our education than any other civilized country. However, let's forgive this error, and consider it a mistake. Perhaps she meant that we don't invest CORRECTLY. If we look at the final line, we see that she says "then we'll start making BETTER investments." Ok, so we'll give her a pass here, since she rectifies the error of the first line.

Well actually, since this was a well prepared PROMO ad, which was approved many times by their studio before they ran the ad, we actually CAN NOT forgive this for this error in such a short sub-100 word speech. This had to be intentional. This wasn't just something she said off the cuff.

But anyway, let's continue to give them the benefit of the doubt. Ok great, we're not investing correctly into the education of our children, we can mostly all agree on that. So what is their the solution, how will we start making better investments?

Oh, by making the State sovereign over your children, such that your children only belong to you as a privilege extended to you by the government; not by right, which must be abused before the government can intervene, no, now it's a privilege to have your children.

Apparently transferring Sovereignty from the parents to the government (over your children) will make public education investments "better." The way we're spending the money isn't the problem, it's you!




--------------------------------

So, can you tell us (otherwise) what her diagnosis and cure was to the problem of not investing enough money into education?

Where has anyone ever advocated transferring sovereignty of our children?

Where do you guys get this shit?

Repeating the same BS doesn't make it true. it just shows how weak your argument is..

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Where has MELISSA HARRIS PERRY ever advocated transferring sovereignty of our children?

Where do you guys get this shit?

Ok, she states a problem: We're not investing enough/correctly into education.

Then she diagnoses the problem,

Then she proposes the solution.

She says her solution will better our investments into education.
---------------------------

Would you care to tell me, in your own opinion, what her diagnosis was (from the ad)? Cite which line of the transcript contains the diagnosis of the problem.

Will you then tell me, in your own opinion, what her solution was? Cite which line in which she tells us how to solve the problem.

Again, here's the transcript:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Yeah, the children of Jonestown were considered community property also....and we see how that turned out for them.

No thanks....Our children are my wife and I's....WE decide what's right for them , no one else, EVER.....And that is exactly why we spend big bucks so they can attend private school, as opposed to the shitty, "community" public school system.....And they are so far ahead of their friends their age, who do attend public school, that it's sad.....Sad for those children trapped in the "communities" public school system.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Simple way to settle it...

Do you think society and government exists to serve the needs of the people who create it, or do you think it exists as a matter of course and people should serve it's mandates?

Simple really.. Which do you think is true? You guys who agree with the video keep ignoring that part of what the statement she made implies..

Nothing about her statement implies anything at all about "government".

So when she talks about 'the whole community' if she isnt talking about the government then what pray tell do you think she is talking about?

The fucking Tooth Fairy?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Simple way to settle it...

Do you think society and government exists to serve the needs of the people who create it, or do you think it exists as a matter of course and people should serve it's mandates?

Simple really.. Which do you think is true? You guys who agree with the video keep ignoring that part of what the statement she made implies..

Nothing about her statement implies anything at all about "government".

So when she talks about 'the whole community' if she isnt talking about the government then what pray tell do you think she is talking about?

The fucking Tooth Fairy?

Is it so hard to understand that when she says "community" she means the fucking community that you live in? You know, your friends and neighbors, that sort of thing.

It's not a fucking code-word.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Is it so hard to understand that when she says "community" she means the fucking community that you live in? You know, your friends and neighbors, that sort of thing.

It's not a fucking code-word.

Doctor, I have an easier way for you to explain to us your interpretation of this commerical:

Ok, she states a problem: We're not investing enough/correctly into education.

Then she diagnoses the problem,

Then she proposes the solution.

She says her solution will better our investments into education.
---------------------------

Would you care to tell me, in your own opinion, what her diagnosis was (from the ad)? Cite which line of the transcript contains the diagnosis of the problem.

Will you then tell me, in your own opinion, what her solution was? Cite which line in which she tells us how to solve the problem.

Again, here's the transcript:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Is it so hard to understand that when she says "community" she means the fucking community that you live in? You know, your friends and neighbors, that sort of thing.

It's not a fucking code-word.

Doctor, I have an easier way for you to explain to us your interpretation of this commerical:

Ok, she states a problem: We're not investing enough/correctly into education.

Then she diagnoses the problem,

Then she proposes the solution.

She says her solution will better our investments into education.
---------------------------

Would you care to tell me, in your own opinion, what her diagnosis was (from the ad)? Cite which line of the transcript contains the diagnosis of the problem.

Will you then tell me, in your own opinion, what her solution was? Cite which line in which she tells us how to solve the problem.




Again, here's the transcript:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

It's hilarious to watch you guys.

You're taking her every word apart with a scalpel, trying to generate reasons for outrage - what her secret code words really mean.

She isn't "diagnosing a problem" or "proposing a solution" - she's just making a pretty soundbite about how we should all take care of young people in our communities - instead of wiping our heads and saying "that's someone else's kid".

You guys have churned yourselves into a lather trying to make it as if she's saying the government has the right to take your kids, or somehow trying to take any sort of power away from parents.

But it's all in your heads. It doesn't have any secret meaning. It's not new government policy. It's just a fucking soundbite.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Is it so hard to understand that when she says "community" she means the fucking community that you live in? You know, your friends and neighbors, that sort of thing.

It's not a fucking code-word.

Doctor, I have an easier way for you to explain to us your interpretation of this commerical:

Ok, she states a problem: We're not investing enough/correctly into education.

Then she diagnoses the problem,

Then she proposes the solution.

She says her solution will better our investments into education.
---------------------------

Would you care to tell me, in your own opinion, what her diagnosis was (from the ad)? Cite which line of the transcript contains the diagnosis of the problem.

Will you then tell me, in your own opinion, what her solution was? Cite which line in which she tells us how to solve the problem.




Again, here's the transcript:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

It's hilarious to watch you guys.

You're taking her every word apart with a scalpel, trying to generate reasons for outrage - what her secret code words really mean.

She isn't "diagnosing a problem" or "proposing a solution" - she's just making a pretty soundbite about how we should all take care of young people in our communities - instead of wiping our heads and saying "that's someone else's kid".

You guys have churned yourselves into a lather trying to make it as if she's saying the government has the right to take your kids, or somehow trying to take any sort of power away from parents.

But it's all in your heads. It doesn't have any secret meaning. It's not new government policy. It's just a fucking soundbite.

Sorry Doc, but there are times when one needs to consider the source, and take into consideration what the source has said in the past, when deciphering what they really mean.

That woman is a straight up communist loon.....Her statements in the past, and there are many, fully prove it......All she had to do, if her point is what many think it is, is show what happened in Atlanta and New York, and address what the real problems are regarding this country's failing education system......Yeah, we keep pumping boatloads of money into it, while corrupt Teachers, Administrators, and Unions suck it dry.....But then, a loon like her would never admit it, 'cause it fully exposes the failure of her loony belief system.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Doctor, I have an easier way for you to explain to us your interpretation of this commerical:

Ok, she states a problem: We're not investing enough/correctly into education.

Then she diagnoses the problem,

Then she proposes the solution.

She says her solution will better our investments into education.
---------------------------

Would you care to tell me, in your own opinion, what her diagnosis was (from the ad)? Cite which line of the transcript contains the diagnosis of the problem.

Will you then tell me, in your own opinion, what her solution was? Cite which line in which she tells us how to solve the problem.




Again, here's the transcript:

It's hilarious to watch you guys.

You're taking her every word apart with a scalpel, trying to generate reasons for outrage - what her secret code words really mean.

She isn't "diagnosing a problem" or "proposing a solution" - she's just making a pretty soundbite about how we should all take care of young people in our communities - instead of wiping our heads and saying "that's someone else's kid".

You guys have churned yourselves into a lather trying to make it as if she's saying the government has the right to take your kids, or somehow trying to take any sort of power away from parents.

But it's all in your heads. It doesn't have any secret meaning. It's not new government policy. It's just a fucking soundbite.

Sorry Doc, but there are times when one needs to consider the source, and take into consideration what the source has said in the past, when deciphering what they really mean.

That woman is a straight up communist loon.....Her statements in the past, and there are many, fully prove it......All she had to do, if her point is what many think it is, is show what happened in Atlanta and New York, and address what the real problems are regarding this country's failing education system......Yeah, we keep pumping boatloads of money into it, while corrupt Teachers, Administrators, and Unions suck it dry.....But then, a loon like her would never admit it, 'cause it fully exposes the failure of her loony belief system.

I'm not at all trying to tell you guys to agree with her. I'm not even saying that I agree with her.

I just don't see anything "outrageous" about what she said.

 

[Wicked Jester]

It's hilarious to watch you guys.

You're taking her every word apart with a scalpel, trying to generate reasons for outrage - what her secret code words really mean.

She isn't "diagnosing a problem" or "proposing a solution" - she's just making a pretty soundbite about how we should all take care of young people in our communities - instead of wiping our heads and saying "that's someone else's kid".

You guys have churned yourselves into a lather trying to make it as if she's saying the government has the right to take your kids, or somehow trying to take any sort of power away from parents.

But it's all in your heads. It doesn't have any secret meaning. It's not new government policy. It's just a fucking soundbite.

Sorry Doc, but there are times when one needs to consider the source, and take into consideration what the source has said in the past, when deciphering what they really mean.

That woman is a straight up communist loon.....Her statements in the past, and there are many, fully prove it......All she had to do, if her point is what many think it is, is show what happened in Atlanta and New York, and address what the real problems are regarding this country's failing education system......Yeah, we keep pumping boatloads of money into it, while corrupt Teachers, Administrators, and Unions suck it dry.....But then, a loon like her would never admit it, 'cause it fully exposes the failure of her loony belief system.

I'm not at all trying to tell you guys to agree with her. I'm not even saying that I agree with her.

I just don't see anything "outrageous" about what she said.

I don't find anything she says "outrageous", because she fully exposed herself for what she truly is, long ago.

What gets me, is that nobody wants to talk about what the real issues are regarding our failing public school systems, particularly the left....For them, it's all about pumping more money into a system that isn't working......The problems run MUCH deeper than that, to the point that, many schools in this country, particularly in the inner cities, are now nothing more than warehouses run by Teachers who don't care, administrators who are as corrupt as they come, and Unions who are only out for dues....And then of course, there is the lousy parenting aspect....And no amount of money is going to fix these problems, 'cause the problems run much deeper than financial.

 

[gslack]

Nothing about her statement implies anything at all about "government".

So when she talks about 'the whole community' if she isnt talking about the government then what pray tell do you think she is talking about?

The fucking Tooth Fairy?

Is it so hard to understand that when she says "community" she means the fucking community that you live in? You know, your friends and neighbors, that sort of thing.

It's not a fucking code-word.

No it's not a code-word, it's exactly how she thinks and feels. Community, society, government, in her mind they all know what's best for you. And clearly they know whats best for our kids too..

I have 3 children. One is 19 and in college, one is 17 in High school, and the other is 14 and in middle school. At no point in any of their development did my neighbor or community say to me "hey if one of them gets in trouble, don't worry we will take responsibility for it".. The reason? Because they aren't fucking responsible for them...

Now she wants to claim despite my being responsible for them and having a vested interest in their well-being, they in fact belong to the community now.. Well hell no!

You are desperate to fix this. First her words are used, and the defense is we are being too literal and she was being metaphorical. So we point out the philosophy behind it and the mindset that motivates that kind of thinking, and then we are "reading too much into it". So which is it now? Too literal or reading too much into it?

You can't have it both ways man. Time for you progressive/liberals to man up.. You can't play pretend socialists and not get dirty. This is the mindset of the true socialist, YOU are not important, THEY are. Who are THEY? People like the lady in the video, people with an education and viewpoints that fits nicely into the greater scheme.

Freaking unbelievable, quit defending this crap already. Man up and call them on it for once..

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Sorry Doc, but there are times when one needs to consider the source, and take into consideration what the source has said in the past, when deciphering what they really mean.

That woman is a straight up communist loon.....Her statements in the past, and there are many, fully prove it......All she had to do, if her point is what many think it is, is show what happened in Atlanta and New York, and address what the real problems are regarding this country's failing education system......Yeah, we keep pumping boatloads of money into it, while corrupt Teachers, Administrators, and Unions suck it dry.....But then, a loon like her would never admit it, 'cause it fully exposes the failure of her loony belief system.

I'm not at all trying to tell you guys to agree with her. I'm not even saying that I agree with her.

I just don't see anything "outrageous" about what she said.

I don't find anything she says "outrageous", because she fully exposed herself for what she truly is, long ago.

That right there sets you apart from many others in this thread.

What gets me, is that nobody wants to talk about what the real issues are regarding our failing public school systems, particularly the left....For them, it's all about pumping more money into a system that isn't working......The problems run MUCH deeper than that, to the point that, many schools in this country, particularly in the inner cities, are now nothing more than warehouses run by Teachers who don't care, administrators who are as corrupt as they come, and Unions who are only out for dues....And then of course, there is the lousy parenting aspect....And no amount of money is going to fix these problems, 'cause the problems run much deeper than financial.

I would have no problem discussing that. But that's a real discussion - not a soundbite.

People on TV don't have "real discussions".

 

[The2ndAmendment]

she isn't "diagnosing a problem" or "proposing a solution" - she's just making a pretty soundbite about how we should all take care of young people in our communities - instead of wiping our heads and saying "that's someone else's kid".

Again, let's makes sure we have the transcript in front of us:

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have, because we have always had a private notion of our children.

2. [Sarcastic] 'Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility.'

3. We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. So part of it is that we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

6. Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

OK FIRST OF ALL, THIS IS NOT A "SOUNDBYTE." This was a well prepared and very craftily made advertisement, whose language could fool anyone who is not politically astute. The directors and editors of MSNBC approved this as their PROMOTION AD. A promotion ad for the main television source of PROGRESSIVE/DEMOCRATIC media.



First she declares the problem on line 1:
We have never invested as much in public education as we should have.

The reason our investments have failed is because:
because we have always had a private notion of our children.

The word "always" is actually one of the most dangerous words here, because this means she thinks it's been a problem since the very founding of our country.

So she says that parents being sovereign over their children is the primary problem.

Her solution:
We never had a collective notion that these are OUR children ... We must recognize that kids belong to the WHOLE COMMUNITY;

Here she is saying that Government is the true Sovereign over your children.

Then she proposes the method to accomplish this:
We have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

In other words, she must convince the parents that the government should assume Sovereignty, because they are experts. Or, just convince and brainwash the kids themselves that their parents aren't the Sovereign authority over their personal lives.

Her conclusion:
Once it is everyone's responsibility, and not just the household, we start making better investments.

Let's reword this in a more coherent manner, without changing the text (too much):

1. We have never invested as much in public education as we should have or made good investments.

2. Because we have always had a private notion of our children.

3. We must recognize that kids belong to the whole community; we never had a collective notion that these are OUR children.

4. We have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents, or that kids belong to their families.

5. Make it the government's responsibility, and not just the household, and our public education system will prosper.

So there you have it, The Problem, The Cause, The Solution, The Means, The Ends. And they mixed the order up on purpose, notice that Old Line 5 appears before New line 4, and the end of Old line 6 appears in New line 1.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I'm not at all trying to tell you guys to agree with her. I'm not even saying that I agree with her.

I just don't see anything "outrageous" about what she said.

I don't find anything she says "outrageous", because she fully exposed herself for what she truly is, long ago.

That right there sets you apart from many others in this thread.

What gets me, is that nobody wants to talk about what the real issues are regarding our failing public school systems, particularly the left....For them, it's all about pumping more money into a system that isn't working......The problems run MUCH deeper than that, to the point that, many schools in this country, particularly in the inner cities, are now nothing more than warehouses run by Teachers who don't care, administrators who are as corrupt as they come, and Unions who are only out for dues....And then of course, there is the lousy parenting aspect....And no amount of money is going to fix these problems, 'cause the problems run much deeper than financial.

I would have no problem discussing that. But that's a real discussion - not a soundbite.

People on TV don't have "real discussions".

True that......And it would be a good discussion......Maybe some time when i'm in the mood, i'll try to start a thread on it.....Only problem is, it will only turn into a free for all, because so many people on this board can't think beyond "soundbites" and hyperbole....I guess it could be done in the CDZ, but even then, it just becomes more polite soundbites and hyperbole......Oh well, if the mood hits me, we'll see.