Muslim files lawsuit against Dearborn Heights for making her remove headscarf

[Yurt]

why don't you research your claims before spouting off....took me 3 seconds

Hijab The Head Cover 8211 Unveiled

I'm not spouting off, you idiot. How many Muslim countries have you lived in? I've lived in 3 and live and work closely with Muslim women. It is a choice, as is made clear in the quote I cited.

i cited the quran

run along now

You didn't even read your own source, you fucking moron. I cited the Koran as well. Fool.

you didn't cite shit. i didn't read my source? how can you be this stupid? here it is again:

Why do Muslim women cover their heads? The answer is very simple – Muslim women observe hijab because Allah has told them to do so:

.O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not annoyed…. (Qur.an 33:59).

No, read my citation from the Koran. It is not required. The quote you are citing is not a requirement, it is a suggestion, and it is not specific.

oh i see, you EDITED your post to include a link....from your link:

Why then, under such circumstances, do Muslim women wear scarves?

There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. In the Quran God tells the believing men and women to lower their gaze and to dress modestly. He (God) specifically addresses women when He asks them not to show off their adornment, except that which is apparent, and draw their veils over their bodies. (Quran 24:30-31)

 

[Esmeralda]

Show me where in the Koran it is required for women to cover their heads or faces. I know and have known and have lived among countless Muslim women who do not cover their heads or faces.

why don't you research your claims before spouting off....took me 3 seconds

Hijab The Head Cover 8211 Unveiled

I'm not spouting off, you idiot. How many Muslim countries have you lived in? I've lived in 3 and live and work closely with Muslim women. It is a choice, as is made clear in the quote I cited.

i cited the quran

run along now

You are an idiot. I have lived in three Muslim countries with 90% Muslim populations. I worked closely with countless Muslim women. Covering is not required. It is a CHOICE. You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

so the passage in the quran means what?

and citing what people do is not proof the religion requires something you fucking moron. i would say that all christians lie, you would then use this as proof the bible doesn't say not to lie....idiot

Your post doesn't even make any sense. Are you saying that the millions upon millions of Muslim women who don't cover are lying? Are disobeying their religion? I think they would, I know they would, disagree with you.

Dressing modestly does not equate to covering your head or face. It is open to interpretation, and Muslim women all over the world interpret it differently.

 

[Coyote]

How do you know there wasn't a female officer present? The article did not say that at all.

i said apparently there was no female officer there...

...you want to assume there was a female officer there who refused her, based on what?

Kazan said she asked to have a female officer take her photo, which the male officer refused to do, the lawsuit said.

The officer talked to a supervisor, who told him to proceed as usual.

there wasn't a female officer around, apparently...oh well.

I am not sure what your point is with the quote. There is nothing that says there was no female officer around, only that the male refused to get one.

I think if there was courtesy and respect, they could have agreed to her request, but there is not respect for Islam by probably the majority of people in the West due to terrorism. I am not against Muslims: many, many times I have posted supporting the general population of Muslims. I don't blame them for terrorism. But, the fact is that covering varies from country to country, culture to culture, family to family, woman to woman. It is based on a suggesting in the Koran and how that suggestion is interpreted.

Agree, but it is still a part of a person's religion and religious identity and as such should be constitutionally protected within reasonable limits.

 

[Esmeralda]

How do you know there wasn't a female officer present? The article did not say that at all.

i said apparently there was no female officer there...

...you want to assume there was a female officer there who refused her, based on what?

Kazan said she asked to have a female officer take her photo, which the male officer refused to do, the lawsuit said.

The officer talked to a supervisor, who told him to proceed as usual.

there wasn't a female officer around, apparently...oh well.

I am not sure what your point is with the quote. There is nothing that says there was no female officer around, only that the male refused to get one.

I think if there was courtesy and respect, they could have agreed to her request, but there is not respect for Islam by probably the majority of people in the West due to terrorism. I am not against Muslims: many, many times I have posted supporting the general population of Muslims. I don't blame them for terrorism. But, the fact is that covering varies from country to country, culture to culture, family to family, woman to woman. It is based on a suggesting in the Koran and how that suggestion is interpreted.

Agree, but it is still a part of a person's religion and religious identity and as such should be constitutionally protected within reasonable limits.

I agree that it may be how individuals interpret things, but it is not required by Islam, it is a personal choice and therefore is not a religious requirement. I believe that socially, and in most circumstance, there is no reason to require any woman to remove a scarf from her head. But when it comes to ID or a booking photo, I can see where it is necessary. And I don't believe it goes against a requirement in Islam: I know it doesn't. It would be like if a Christian wanted to wear a cross or a nun her habit. It is a choice not required in the Bible.

 

[Coyote]

How do you know there wasn't a female officer present? The article did not say that at all.

i said apparently there was no female officer there...

...you want to assume there was a female officer there who refused her, based on what?

Kazan said she asked to have a female officer take her photo, which the male officer refused to do, the lawsuit said.

The officer talked to a supervisor, who told him to proceed as usual.

there wasn't a female officer around, apparently...oh well.

I am not sure what your point is with the quote. There is nothing that says there was no female officer around, only that the male refused to get one.

I think if there was courtesy and respect, they could have agreed to her request, but there is not respect for Islam by probably the majority of people in the West due to terrorism. I am not against Muslims: many, many times I have posted supporting the general population of Muslims. I don't blame them for terrorism. But, the fact is that covering varies from country to country, culture to culture, family to family, woman to woman. It is based on a suggesting in the Koran and how that suggestion is interpreted.

Agree, but it is still a part of a person's religion and religious identity and as such should be constitutionally protected within reasonable limits.

I agree that it may be how individuals interpret things, but it is not required by Islam, it is a personal choice and therefore is not a religious requirement. I believe that socially, and in most circumstance, there is no reason to require any woman to remove a scarf from her head. But when it comes to ID or a booking photo, I can see where it is necessary. And I don't believe it goes against a requirement in Islam: I know it doesn't. It would be like if a Christian wanted to wear a cross or a nun her habit. It is a choice not required in the Bible.

I agree, for a photo it has to be removed but it doesn't seem she was arguing against that, only requesting it be a female officer to take the photo. That's why I don't see it as unreasonable

 

[Valerie]

How do you know there wasn't a female officer present? The article did not say that at all.

i said apparently there was no female officer there...

...you want to assume there was a female officer there who refused her, based on what?

Kazan said she asked to have a female officer take her photo, which the male officer refused to do, the lawsuit said.

The officer talked to a supervisor, who told him to proceed as usual.

there wasn't a female officer around, apparently...oh well.

I am not sure what your point is with the quote. There is nothing that says there was no female officer around, only that the male refused to get one.

i said apparently because based on the scenario described, that is apparently what happened.

the article says that her lawsuit alleges, that he ''refused''...

the article also says he asked his supervisor..so he did not refuse, he asked his supervisor...

how can you assume why the supervisor refused? based on what?

do you have knowledge that there was a woman officer available?

IF there was a female officer available yet the supervisor refused to use her, why isn't her lawsuit asking for female officers to be available? why is her lawsuit going beyond that and asking for her headgear to remain regardless of officer gender, if gender matters?

 

[Esmeralda]

i said apparently there was no female officer there...

...you want to assume there was a female officer there who refused her, based on what?

I am not sure what your point is with the quote. There is nothing that says there was no female officer around, only that the male refused to get one.

I think if there was courtesy and respect, they could have agreed to her request, but there is not respect for Islam by probably the majority of people in the West due to terrorism. I am not against Muslims: many, many times I have posted supporting the general population of Muslims. I don't blame them for terrorism. But, the fact is that covering varies from country to country, culture to culture, family to family, woman to woman. It is based on a suggesting in the Koran and how that suggestion is interpreted.

Agree, but it is still a part of a person's religion and religious identity and as such should be constitutionally protected within reasonable limits.

I agree that it may be how individuals interpret things, but it is not required by Islam, it is a personal choice and therefore is not a religious requirement. I believe that socially, and in most circumstance, there is no reason to require any woman to remove a scarf from her head. But when it comes to ID or a booking photo, I can see where it is necessary. And I don't believe it goes against a requirement in Islam: I know it doesn't. It would be like if a Christian wanted to wear a cross or a nun her habit. It is a choice not required in the Bible.

I agree, for a photo it has to be removed but it doesn't seem she was arguing against that, only requesting it be a female officer to take the photo. That's why I don't see it as unreasonable

It would be an issue of respect for her, to find a female officer to take the photo. Unfortunately, as you can tell from the posters on this board and how other Westerners may think of Muslims, it is often difficult to get respect. It's unfortunate, but I don't think this particular situation is a legal issue.

 

[Valerie]

this woman had no respect for the law as she drove around on a suspended license.

why is she acting as if gender matters, then trying to change the policy entirely...?

in any case, does her 'freedom' of religion supersede agency requirements to ID law breakers..?


The lawsuit, filed Thursday in federal court here, asks for the Dearborn Heights, Mich., Police Department to modify its present policy so a Muslim woman can wear her hijab during booking procedures.

 

[Synthaholic]

I doubt Fred has enough money to support more than one wife

Why would you say that? He could be rich as shit for all we know.

 

[Synthaholic]

Men often don't care what's going on inside the head and heart of a woman; they are primarilly interested is her physical being--what she looks like, if she is sexy, if she's good to bed, etc.

No. If she is sexy, if she is good in bed, or even just as sexual as you yourself are, and she tries to look nice and take care of herself - then men often care a helluva lot more about what's going on inside her head and heart.

#KeepIt100

 

[Synthaholic]

I gather this woman never walks into a bank. Most banks make you remove sunglasses and hats when you enter.

pro tip: banks are not the government

Well, they are FDIC insured so gov't rules and regs do apply. I'm just not sure about any kind of rules like that. I'm pretty sure they only have to do with lending requirements.

Please remove all head coverings and sunglasses prior to entering the bank Decal

PNC Bank Asking Customers To Remove Hats Sunglasses www.wpxi.com

Saw this sign on the door to my bank-- Please remove hat sunglasses - Democratic Underground

Youngstown News Bank customers asked to remove hats hoods glasses

Bank bans hoodies hats customers cry racial profiling - NY Daily News

And here's a ready made sign for you to print.

https://www.cocha.org/Resources/PDF_FIles/COCHA_no_hats_english.pdf

 

[Synthaholic]

I gather this woman never walks into a bank. Most banks make you remove sunglasses and hats when you enter.

pro tip: banks are not the government

Well, they are FDIC insured so gov't rules and regs do apply. I'm just not sure about any kind of rules like that. I'm pretty sure they only have to do with lending requirements.

I've never been asked to remove sunglasses, hats or headscarves in a bank. In general, where men might be asked to remove hats, women aren't.

Which, basically, is gender profiling.

It's slowly changing due to these scumbags who send their women and children to blow themselves up because they're too cowardly to do it themselves.

Nice Mitt avatar! But try as he might, he can never quite reach the clown status of a Ted Cruz or a Michelle Bachmann. That makes him a sad clown.

 

[Synthaholic]

you have every right not to drive on our roads without a suspended license, dear...

now this nice lady will take your picture, dear..

POINTS!!!

 

[Synthaholic]

I gather this woman never walks into a bank. Most banks make you remove sunglasses and hats when you enter.

pro tip: banks are not the government

Yes, but many people need to use a banking service, and sometimes that necessitates entering the building rather than the drive-thru.

What does she do?

most likely has her husband go the bank. i doubt her husband would even let her go to the bank or manage their money.

Way to miss the point!

 

[Synthaholic]

People in other countries won lawsuits that allowed them to wear pasta strainers on their heads for religious reasons. So the lawsuit might well suceed.

Other countries don't have our Constitution.

 

[Synthaholic]

Creeping Shariah

Great name for a Metal band.

 

[Synthaholic]

People in other countries won lawsuits that allowed them to wear pasta strainers on their heads for religious reasons. So the lawsuit might well suceed.

Not in America it won't. The same type case was heard in Florida ( I believe it was Florida) and she lost. You'd think they would get the message - The USA is NOT an Islamic State - nor shall it ever be.

It's nothing to do with Sharia but with basic religious rights granted by the Constitution. All those rights have limitations of course - she must take it off for an ID photo, but that is not her argument. Her religion forbids her from removing it in the presence of strange men, all she is asking for is reasonable accommodation - a female officer takes the photo.

The funny thing is - people scream "Sharia" but it's a reasonable accommodation that goes beyond Muslims (but you all don't care if it isn't a Muslim). There are a number of religious sects that require women cover their heads and they face the same problem. They just don't get villified for it.

yep.

Hey, if I have to remove my hat, and the Muslim woman has to remove her headscarf, then the Hindu man must remove his turban, also.

And what about the woman who walks into a government office wearing a full burka, claiming her religion commands it? Does anyone think this is a good idea?

I think - at that point - you are foisting your religion onto me, making me take security risks for the sake of what I feel are your fairy tales. No thanks.

 

[Synthaholic]

Not in America it won't. The same type case was heard in Florida ( I believe it was Florida) and she lost. You'd think they would get the message - The USA is NOT an Islamic State - nor shall it ever be.

It's nothing to do with Sharia but with basic religious rights granted by the Constitution. All those rights have limitations of course - she must take it off for an ID photo, but that is not her argument. Her religion forbids her from removing it in the presence of strange men, all she is asking for is reasonable accommodation - a female officer takes the photo.

The funny thing is - people scream "Sharia" but it's a reasonable accommodation that goes beyond Muslims (but you all don't care if it isn't a Muslim). There are a number of religious sects that require women cover their heads and they face the same problem. They just don't get villified for it.

Her religion does not forbid it. It is a personal choice, depending on how conservative you or your family are. Covering is not required in Islam.

seriously? prove your claim.

Show me where in the Koran it is required for women to cover their heads or faces. I know and have known and have lived among countless Muslim women who do not cover their heads or faces.

why don't you research your claims before spouting off....took me 3 seconds

Hijab The Head Cover 8211 Unveiled

Now, I know shit about the Koran - I'll admit that upfront - but you linked to 2 verses:

.O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not annoyed…. (Qur.an 33:59).​

To me that can be alluding to clothed rather than nude.

.Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands…. (Quran 24:30-31)​

Again, but this time 'beauty' serves as a euphemism for her sexuality, nude breasts, seduction, etc.

 

[Synthaholic]

i cited the quran

run along now

Well, you think you did.

 

[Valerie]

...

I am not against Muslims: many, many times I have posted supporting the general population of Muslims. I don't blame them for terrorism.

...

so who do you blame? police officers just doing their job?