Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[Ropey]

And we continue...

The ebb, it comes....

And you don't even understand what the term "Last Bastion Against the Horde" means do you?

 

[Sunni Man]

"Bastion against the Horde"

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF1fvMv7DnU[/ame]

 

[Kalam]

 

[Ropey]

Yes, but the last bastion against the Muslim horde...



Look to History for that and accept that Israel holds this distinction with the West. Which is why the attack by Islam is on the West.

You won't find it on Youtube Sunni Man.

You will find it in the Middle East though.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason I can't get you to see your inhumanity to man is because you are uncaring of human lives other than those that matter to you.

You say that to me.

Yet you defend the racist, fascist, apartheid state of Israel.

Israel: A Tolerant, Not Racist State

Even before the land of Israel was declared a state in the year 1948 the idea of such a land has been called racist. To this day there remains a belief by some that the country is inherently racist. This belief is
mostly unfounded as Israel is not a racist state and was created for the main purpose of giving the Jewish people an escape from the racism and anti-Semitism in Europe during the early to mid 19th century. Israeli nationalism has been under fire for quite some time. Many consider Israel's Law of Return as racist. The Law of Return allows for Jews from across the globe to become citizens of the country while not allowing others to do so in the same manner. The Jewish National Fund has also been called racist. This fund allows for property to be purchased for Jewish landowners, but not for non-Jews in the state of Israel. These contentions all have some merit, but are for the most part wrong and do not validate the claim that Israel is a racist state, let me tell you why.

Firstly, Israel gives all citizens equal rights. For example, Israeli Arabs, who have at times felt they are being treated unfairly within the state of Israel do receive like any other Israeli citizen, full voting rights as well as a seat on the Knesset, which serves as Israel's legislative body. All citizens of Israel that are at least 18 years of age are granted suffrage. This is extremely important as the Knesset can pass any law with a majority vote and Israel's government must be approved also by a majority vote of the Knesset. In addition, there are no racist policies segregating Israeli Jews from Israeli Arabs.

I look at Muslim countries and I see the true state of intolerance.

Israel is a bastion of proof with regards to the flow.

The point is that Jews, for the thousands of years that there have been Hebrews or Israelites or Jews, have defended their beliefs and cultural rites and traditions against overwhelming odds and have been hated by many different people for that. The Jews, as have ALL peoples in the course of history, got it wrong sometimes, did bad things sometimes, overreacted sometimes, and thought wrongly sometimes.

But I think we would be hard put to find any other ethnic group that is in such a tiny minority that have contributed as much to the betterment of society and the world than the Jews can also claim.

But because they have been so oppressed, so hated, so universally discriminated against by EVERYBODY else at one time or another, Israel was intended to be a place where Jews could at last be free and call their own shots without interference from any other religious or political power. It was to be a place of refuge for all Jews everywhere who wanted that kind of freedom to be who they wanted to be without fear of retaliation or punishment. Evenso, with Israel being among the tinest of nations they have included more than a million Arabs who choose to live in Israel as full citizens and that includes representation on the Knesset. Israeli Arabs are not required to participate in mandatory military service because all of Israel's enemies right now are Muslim, mostly Arabs, and Israel reasonably concluded that Arab citizens will not be expected to fire upon possibly their own families. It is sufficient that Arab Israeli citizens will not interfere when it is necessary for Israel to defend itself from Arab aggression.

It is essential for Israel to maintain a substantial majority of Jews within Israel, however, for as soon as there is an Arab majority, Israel will cease to exist. The antisemite, anti-Israel people of the world call that racist.

I call it common sense.

 

[Sunni Man]

But I think we would be hard put to find any other ethnic group that is in such a tiny minority that have contributed as much to the betterment of society and the world than the Jews can also claim.

We would be hard put to find any other tiny minority ethnic group has caused more havoc, chaos, wars, and conflict in the world than the Jews.

 

[Ropey]

I call it common sense.

The Jews have been stewed in attempts to render us dissolute. Islamic methods will not work for if history has shown us anything, it has shown that Jews continue regardless, and because they continue, they rebuild Israel also regardless.

Israel could be destroyed and be rebuilt again after the Muslim horde attacks Israel and is vanquished by the Western world. It could happen again. Just because I believe that the restoration is over and now we are moving to the end of times does not make it so.

Islam notwithstanding, I am not worried. I have faith.

 

[Foxfyre]

But I think we would be hard put to find any other ethnic group that is in such a tiny minority that have contributed as much to the betterment of society and the world than the Jews can also claim.

We would be hard put to find any other tiny minority ethnic group has caused more havoc, chaos, wars, and conflict in the world than the Jews.

I can. The Christians, relative to their much shorter history, are more guilty of creating havoc, chaos, and conflict in the world than are the Jews.

And I believe Islam, with its even shorter history, outclasses Christians and Jews combined in that department and there are segments that are actively continuing to do so.

 

[Jroc]

I call it common sense.

The Jews have been stewed in attempts to render us dissolute. Islamic methods will not work for if history has shown us anything, it has shown that Jews continue regardless, and because they continue, they rebuild Israel also regardless.

Israel could be destroyed and be rebuilt again after the Muslim horde attacks Israel and is vanquished by the Western world. It could happen again. Just because I believe that the restoration is over and now we are moving to the end of times does not make it so.

Islam notwithstanding, I am not worried. I have faith.

I agree with you Ropey, "restoration is over" we are strong now..any attempt at the destruction of Israel, is an attempt to destroy western civilization as a whole, and we know were we go from there

 

[Sunni Man]

I agree with you Ropey, "restoration is over" we are strong now..any attempt at the destruction of Israel, is an attempt to destroy western civilization as a whole,

You guys are hilarious

Since when did a nation of bagel benders become the center piece of western civilization.

 

[Ropey]

I agree with you Ropey, "restoration is over" we are strong now..any attempt at the destruction of Israel, is an attempt to destroy western civilization as a whole,

You guys are hilarious

Since when did a nation of bagel benders become the center piece of western civilization.

Not center piece. Who said that? There was a reason the castles of Britain, France and Spain were created in the Islamic world.

It was to create a barrier that if overthrown would tell the world that it was time to go back in and fight.

Israel is now that barrier. Israel will be attacked from without.

And the fight?

It comes....

 

[Jroc]

I agree with you Ropey, "restoration is over" we are strong now..any attempt at the destruction of Israel, is an attempt to destroy western civilization as a whole,

You guys are hilarious

Since when did a nation of bagel benders become the center piece of western civilization.

Modern Civilization started when G-d's law was offered to, accepted by, and given to the Jewish people. The law is the basis, the building blocks. Of western civilization, always has been.

 

[Sunni Man]

Modern Civilization started when G-d's law was offered to, accepted by, and given to the Jewish people. The law is the basis, the building blocks. Of western civilization, always has been.

Incorrect Hiram,

Western civilization was built on the backs of the Greeks and Romans.

Who by the way, drove out their Jews like everyone else has in history.

 

[Ropey]

Modern Civilization started when G-d's law was offered to, accepted by, and given to the Jewish people. The law is the basis, the building blocks. Of western civilization, always has been.

Western civilization was built on the backs of the Greeks and Romans.

Who by the way, drove out their Jews like everyone else has in history.

The Law of G-d is the Ten Commandments Sunni Man. That did not come from the Greeks or Romans.

But they took it in and it became theirs as G-d gave it to the Jews who He had chosen for the purpose of messenger boy. The Greeks translated it for the Jews and we went worldwide with it. Chosen for a purpose, no more is given to us other than our laws of culture.

Incorrect Hiram,

Sunni Man. You say you are a believer. As a believer, do you believe that what you know is to come to pass? You have faith that this that you know will come to pass regardless?

So, do you believe then that Islam is where it is supposed to be, and will go where it is supposed to go regardless?

I am not one of those who believe any tripe that Islam is of Evil/Satan. Satan would never work towards the creation of a book against himself. It is non sequitir. It is why Christianity could not be of Evil/Satan and it is why Judaism is not as well.

So, with that premise put aside. I then look and ask myself.

Is this G-d's World?

If this is G-d's world, then things will happen on the time of G-d, for G-d is not on our time.

G-d preordains the end, but He does not inform the time. This is so for Islam and Judaism and Christianity.

For our book, we do not know when. We know the maximum of six thousand years and we are at 5772 now, so according to our book, between now and 238 years, but when?

Can't rightly say.

I know that hate does not work in your book either. It works in your mind.

We Jews, however, are hated in paradoxes:

Jews are hated for being a lazy and inferior race - but also for dominating the economy and taking over the world.

Jews are hated for stubbornly maintaining our separateness - and, when we do assimilate - for posing a threat to racial purity through intermarriages.

Jews are seen as pacifists and as warmongers; as capitalist exploiters and as revolutionary communists; possessed of a chosen People mentality, as well as of an inferiority complex.

Nevertheless and regardless, we continue...

Israel is recreated and we continue...

 

[hipeter924]

I agree with you Ropey, "restoration is over" we are strong now..any attempt at the destruction of Israel, is an attempt to destroy western civilization as a whole,

You guys are hilarious

Since when did a nation of bagel benders become the center piece of western civilization.

Not center piece. Who said that? There was a reason the castles of Britain, France and Spain were created in the Islamic world.

It was to create a barrier that if overthrown would tell the world that it was time to go back in and fight.

Israel is now that barrier. Israel will be attacked from without.

And the fight?

It comes....

Europe has been the center of intolerance for centuries, if it wasn't the Jews (virtually all European nations persecuted them and Germany and Italy finished with the holocaust, only to start left/right wing hate groups today), the Cathars (Europe wiped them out, men, women, children and all), or the Gyspies (France and other nations still persecute them) and now it is the Muslims, they have a big nasty cesspool to live in.

The Muslims wouldn't be waging a war on them if they:
a) Treated them with a little dignity (that means not housing them in ghettos).
b) Stopped letting in Muslims they couldn't afford to give jobs and a good standing of living, or otherwise only let the kinds of Muslims into Europe that integrate well into society.
c) Woke up to the reality that true 'freedom of religion' is sharia law, and that saying that Muslims have 'free religion' is lying.
d) Understood their high held human rights principles are nothing but falsehood's and pathetic attempts to hide the genocides and mass exploitation they were/are involved in Middle East, Africa and Asia i.e. Algeria, Rwanda, Congo, Vietnam, Armenia, Turkey ...
e) Realize that they are a region of double standards like supporting military dictatorships, denying genocides and all the while proclaiming they are some how 'morally superior' to the US, Russia, China and other nations.

PS: Glad to be living in New Zealand, antisemitism, radical Islam, and extreme nationalism/racism is virtually inexistent here.

 

[Foxfyre]

The distortions spewed by the anti-Jewish anti-Israel group never cease to amaze me.

Arab/Muslim citizens of Israel are free to live anywhere they wish. The fact that some do concentrate themselves into mostly Arab neighborhoods is a cultural choice, not via any mandate of Israeli policy or law.

Of the 22 Arab countries, not a single one has a Jew in its government or in any position of power. A number of Arabs have been elected to and sit on the Israeli Knesset.

When the Arab population in East Jerusalem was polled as to whether they would choose to be Palestinian citizens or Israeli citizens should an agreement be reached to establish a separate nation of Palestine, only 30% chose to be Palestinian citizens. The fact that an Islamic mosque still sits on the Dome of the Rock speaks to Israeli tolerance for Islam.

A majority of the Jews who have been forcibly expelled from countries around the world have been expelled from Arab/Islamic countries.

As for non-Israeli Arabs living on the perimeters of Israel, how friendly would you be and how likely to accommodate people subject to a government sworn to destroy you and which is repeatedly and with great regularity committed terrorist attacks intended to maim, injure, kill as many Israeili men, women, and children as possible? And this has happened EVERY time they have been given opportunity to do so?

And as yet nobody has given me ANY justification for continued hatred of Israel and the Jews. The Jews bother nobody who is willing to leave them alone.

 

[Sunni Man]

Of the 22 Arab countries, not a single one has a Jew in its government or in any position of power.

You are the one spewing the misinformation and hate Foxfyre.


"Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatolltah

Iran remains home to Jewish enclave

 

[Sunni Man]

When the Arab population in East Jerusalem was polled as to whether they would choose to be Palestinian citizens or Israeli citizens should an agreement be reached to establish a separate nation of Palestine, only 30% chose to be Palestinian citizens. The fact that an Islamic mosque still sits on the Dome of the Rock speaks to Israeli tolerance for Islam.

Most of the so called muslims who responded that they wanted to stay Israeli citizens are "Druze".

Druze are muslims in name only.

And are Not accepted as muslims by either Shia or Sunni muslims.

They have always sided with Israel in exchange for protection.

Druze are the "sell outs" and "Uncle Toms" of the Middle East.

So to use them in any poll about Muslims is totally misleading and disingenuous.

 

[High_Gravity]

Arabs For Israel

 

[Kalam]

And as yet nobody has given me ANY justification for continued hatred of Israel and the Jews. The Jews bother nobody who is willing to leave them alone.

By saying this, you imply that they aren't squatting on stolen land. What I find funny is that many of the same Americans who complain about the "failure" of Muslim immigrants to "assimilate" to life in various European countries also support Israel, an entity created by immigrants who refused to assimilate to the culture of their destination to such an extent that they violently imposed their own way of life on the non-Jews living there. I can't help but suspect that these people would be less supportive of a revived Andalusian caliphate.