Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[Ropey]

Ropey, why do you insist on trying to link what I say to the nazis?

I have no connection to them or their ideology.

I am repulsed at many of their actions and do not condone them.

So why can't you hold a debate without dragging in Hitler and his group?

Or is that the only debating position you can muster up?

I am not anti-semitic at all.

And actually worry that people will finally get fed up with the Jews and cause them harm.

History has shown this to be the case over and over;

as Jews have been killed and driven out of countless countries throughout history.

My solution to the Jewish problem.

Would be to round them up world wide and find and island to quarantine them on.

There are several islands in the world that could easily contain the 13 million Jews that currently reside in various nations and Israel.

This way the Jews could build the ultimate Hebrew society they have always dreamed of.

Several gun boats would patrol the waters around the island to prevent any Jews from trying to escape.

This way the Jews could be protected from harm; and the world could finally have peace and security.

Thus a Win = Win for both Jews and Gentiles

Because your solution is not much different than Hitlers beginning solution that led to the final solution.

 

[Ropey]

All my people gone...

And you are a self-proclaimed moderate Sunni.

 

[Sunni Man]

While it is true that in the Middle Ages the Roman Church's treatment of Jews was deplorable, most persecuted Jews did not flee to the Muslim countries but rather more accommodating European and North African countries. That is why there were so many Jewis in Germany and Poland for Hitler to round up for massacre; and why there were so many in Russia until Lenin and Stalin launched their viscious pograms to drive them out.

And where did all of the Jews come from that went to European and North African countries Foxfyer?

Oh, that's right, they came from previously Muslim controlled Spain where they had been kicked out by the Christians who wanted to kill them.

 

[Sunni Man]

All my people gone...

Well don't blame the Muslims.

It was the Christian nations of Germany and Italy that killed your people.

 

[Foxfyre]

While it is true that in the Middle Ages the Roman Church's treatment of Jews was deplorable, most persecuted Jews did not flee to the Muslim countries but rather more accommodating European and North African countries. That is why there were so many Jewis in Germany and Poland for Hitler to round up for massacre; and why there were so many in Russia until Lenin and Stalin launched their viscious pograms to drive them out.

And where did all of the Jews come from that went to European and North African countries Foxfyer?

Oh, that's right, they came from previously Muslim controlled Spain where they had been kicked out by the Christians who wanted to kill them.

No sir, the Granada Massacre and similar events in Spain was committed by Muslims, not Christians. Jews were treated every bit as badly by Muslims as they were by the Medieval Church/Monarchy collaborations. Trying to pretend otherwise simply cannot be backed up by any reliable historical source.

Again, you will be unable to find anywhere in history that Jews were protected or defended by Muslims anywhere. Tolerated with prejudice yes. But invited? No. Protected? No. Defended? No.

Muslims have fare much MUCH better in Israel.

Again there is simply no way to justify Muslim hatred for Jews. It is what it is. And what it is looks like bigotry and prejudice to me.

 

[Ropey]

All my people gone...

Well don't blame the Muslims.

It was the Christian nations of Germany and Italy that killed your people.

Muslims are innocent of killing Jews?

And Sunni Man who wants to take EVERY JEW IN THE WORLD and forcibly move them to an Island where they will be guarded from escape.

What do you call that Sunni Man?

What is your name for that?

 

[Sunni Man]

Muslims have fare much MUCH better in Israel.

Best joke I have heard so far this year!!

 

[Kalam]

Just so there is no misunderstanding people who pay the jizyah are captives ,free range but captives never the less..

Incorrect. People of the dhimma are citizens. Captives form an entirely different class in Islamic jurisprudence; captive status is also temporary.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It is a distinction without a difference.
Fight until you defeat the Jews and Christians
and they are conquer and subjugated and pay the jizyah



9:29
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (At-Tawbah 9:29)



Sounds like captives to me.
You can delude yourself as much as you wish, the language is plain and in present tense .

 

[Kalam]

You said that I should. If you don't understand the politics of ownership when in discussion then I doubt if conversation with you and I will ever reach a point of simple acceptance.

For you seem to know my mind better than I?

Sunni Man simply indicts my entire people to an island surfeit of man. You just indict my mind. You know what I should want better than I. Clearly you don't need to ask me what I think of the MB. You know.

And this you don't understand Kalam? Then clearly I was wrong. You are not enlightened if you don't get this simple human concept.

Can we please drop this? Clearly, I phrased something in a way that doesn't sit well with you -- I apologize. I'm not particularly interested in hearing any more about it, to tell you the truth, so let's just move on. This isn't going anywhere.

Sunni Man has absolutely no understanding of enlightenment.

Is our conversation now about Sunni Man?

Have you read this entire thread Kalam?

From beginning to end?

Yes, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be noticing apart from the same non-Muslims using the same pseudo-scholarship and tortured logic to propagate the same false claims about my religion that they've always attempted to propagate.

 

[Kalam]

Sounds like captives to me.

I'm sure it does. I've noticed that your ignorance rather frequently prevents you from seeing clear distinctions such as this. A captive is a prisoner of war who is generally ransomed or let go freely; a person of the dhimma is a rights-bearing citizen of the khilafah who, under Hizb ut-Tahrir's model, may vote for or a serve as a representative in the Majlis al-Ummah and local legislative councils, petition the government for redress of grievances, and hold office in other non-judicial and non-ruling government positions if he or she so desires.

You can delude yourself as much as you wish,

No, thanks; your own self-delusion is quite enough for the both of us.

the language is plain and in present tense

You say, having no knowledge of Arabic whatsoever.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Captives, no ifs, ands or buts.

9:29
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (At-Tawbah 9:29)

 

[Ropey]

Can we please drop this? Clearly, I phrased something in a way that doesn't sit well with you -- I apologize. I'm not particularly interested in hearing any more about it, to tell you the truth, so let's just move on. This isn't going anywhere.

I agree.

I can see that you lacked intent. You have my apology back.

 

[Sunni Man]

And Sunni Man who wants to take EVERY JEW IN THE WORLD and forcibly move them to an Island where they will be guarded from escape.

What do you call that Sunni Man?

What is your name for that?

I would name the island Gaza #2

 

[Ropey]

And Sunni Man who wants to take EVERY JEW IN THE WORLD and forcibly move them to an Island where they will be guarded from escape.

What do you call that Sunni Man?

What is your name for that?

I would name the island Gaza #2

We will add Gaza #2 to Israel as well as Gaza #1.

Thanks.

 

[Ropey]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason I can't get you to see your inhumanity to man is because you are uncaring of human lives other than those that matter to you.

You call for the expulsion of my people worldwide and see that as a moderate permanent solution to the Jewish Problem. (Your Words)

 

[Sunni Man]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason I can't get you to see your inhumanity to man is because you are uncaring of human lives other than those that matter to you.

You say that to me.

Yet you defend the racist, fascist, apartheid state of Israel.

 

[Ropey]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason I can't get you to see your inhumanity to man is because you are uncaring of human lives other than those that matter to you.

You say that to me.

Yet you defend the racist, fascist, apartheid state of Israel.

Israel: A Tolerant, Not Racist State

Even before the land of Israel was declared a state in the year 1948 the idea of such a land has been called racist. To this day there remains a belief by some that the country is inherently racist. This belief is
mostly unfounded as Israel is not a racist state and was created for the main purpose of giving the Jewish people an escape from the racism and anti-Semitism in Europe during the early to mid 19th century. Israeli nationalism has been under fire for quite some time. Many consider Israel's Law of Return as racist. The Law of Return allows for Jews from across the globe to become citizens of the country while not allowing others to do so in the same manner. The Jewish National Fund has also been called racist. This fund allows for property to be purchased for Jewish landowners, but not for non-Jews in the state of Israel. These contentions all have some merit, but are for the most part wrong and do not validate the claim that Israel is a racist state, let me tell you why.

Firstly, Israel gives all citizens equal rights. For example, Israeli Arabs, who have at times felt they are being treated unfairly within the state of Israel do receive like any other Israeli citizen, full voting rights as well as a seat on the Knesset, which serves as Israel's legislative body. All citizens of Israel that are at least 18 years of age are granted suffrage. This is extremely important as the Knesset can pass any law with a majority vote and Israel's government must be approved also by a majority vote of the Knesset. In addition, there are no racist policies segregating Israeli Jews from Israeli Arabs.

I look at Muslim countries and I see the true state of intolerance.

Israel is a bastion of proof with regards to the flow.

 

[logical4u]

If you want to see how islam treats "un-believers", look at how Christians are being systematically slaughtered in the ME.

 

[Sunni Man]

Israel is a bastion of proof with regards to the flow.

Yea, the flow of Zionist BS