My Apologies to the Liberals Here; You Were Right.....

[TyroneSlothrop]

certified blithering Idiot -------->

 

[Mac1958]

There has just been an intellectual detachment between reality and fantasy, and it probably won't stop any time soon. It's one of the many areas in which the two ends of the spectrum are similar - emotion and frustration take over for reason and equilibrium.
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Every time the GOP Establishment plays 'Fooled ya!' with the party base the more they build the pressure and anger of that base. If they fail to deliver on the wall, there will be a revolt.

Conservatives Rage Over Prospect of Total Health Care Failure

Every time the political establishment inside the Beltway fails with the American people that anger grows as well. The shootings a few weeks ago in Alexandria are not the end of partisan rhetorical hyperbole, but the first leaves falling of an early autumn if these bastards fuck the health care system up completely and fail to repair it.

I don't know (a) what that would look like, or (b) if it could even happen.

Personally, I think this whole "drain the swamp" thing is terribly naive. There might be minor victories here and there, but nothing changes as long as we have politicians who are incentivized to put fundraising and re-election several steps above principle or issues. But worse, Trump is the wrong guy to do this. You don't put a person like this in that position and expect people to follow. In fact, he may even be damaging the movement in the long run with his temperament and behaviors.

The other problem is that those who provide most of the energy in the party have been convinced that they can just yank the rest of the country in their direction, because we all secretly interpret the Constitution precisely the way they and talk radio do. Incrementalism and pragmatism are ignored and mocked. Well, sorry, but screaming "drain the swamp" just isn't good enough. At some point, reason, cooperation and statesmanship have to be included in this process.
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[martybegan]

Technology should make it so government can be smaller, and more efficient. With instantaneous communications and the ability via technology to automate many functions, and allow less people to do more government SHOULD be shrinking from these factors despite increased loading due to technology.

I work as a consultant for a City level agency, and payments are still done on paper, still require 4-5 copies, and still pass through physically over 15 people before they are signed off. Why is this so?

I know what you mean as I spent twenty+ years consulting int he DC area mostly for federal agencies.

But I am not talking about that when I speak of the growth of governmental power and scope of authority. With each new technology comes more regulation, more case law and more confusion that still more bureaucrats have to assplain to everyone.

it's all part of the same problem. They would have no issue with increasing the scope of their work AND keep government small if they could update the methods they use as technology improves.

 

[MindWars]

 

[rightwinger]

View attachment 139510

Why wouldn't Republicans discuss how good their healthcare bill is?

With less than 20% of Americans supporting it, looks like they have a lot of selling to do

 

[Syriusly]

The problem with obama care is that in order to give some freebies and subsidies the givers are now faced with high premiums, high co pays and very high deductibles. Now the givers cannot afford health care and the takers are riding free! Check yourself!

The politicians have no idea how the people suffer under Obamacare. A woman today said her premiums went from $300 a month to $1600! People can't afford to get sick.

Trump is right. If congress can't do its job, they need to just let it fail.

Before the ACA that woman may not have been able to get insurance if she had a pre-existing condition. Or she might not have been able to afford insurance before.

Obamacare repeal is flailing because Obamacare is working

But focusing on the problems obscures the overwhelming reality: The Affordable Care is popular, it is working, and on every dimension that voters care about, it outperforms the Republican alternatives. And that makes it damn hard to replace.

Poll after poll shows more people now favor the Affordable Care Act than oppose it. It has higher approval ratings than Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, or the Republican Party. It far outperforms the Republican replacement plans: A new Washington Post/ABC News poll found voters prefer Obamacare to the Republican health bill by a 2-to-1 margin — 50 to 24 percent. You rarely see numbers like that in American politics.

These numbers are strange if you listen to Republicans describe the Affordable Care Act. In their telling, it is always “imploding,” “failing,” “dying,” “disastrous.” How can a law in such crisis command such healthy public support? The answer is that the law is, for the most part, not in crisis. There are areas of the country where the exchanges have struggled to attract insurers, and there are markets in which premiums have increased rapidly. These problems are real and, if the party in power were interested in improving the law, solvable.

But even without improvements, the reality is that for most people, in most places, the Affordable Care Act is working. The bulk of its coverage expansion has been through Medicaid, which is immune to the problems of the insurance marketplaces. Surveys find that Medicaid enrollees really like their coverage; they’re just as satisfied as people who get health insurance at work. Indeed, the Medicaid expansion has proven so popular, and so effective, that Senate Republicans from Medicaid-expanding states like Ohio and Nevada have been fighting to preserve it.

Nor are the exchanges in anything close to a state of collapse. More than 10 million people are buying insurance off Obamacare’s exchanges, and surveys show most of them are happy with their plans. While there are some counties at risk of beginning 2018 without participating insurers, the total number is quite small — 38 out of 3,143 counties, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Nor has the Affordable Care Act seen exploding costs either in the program or in the health care system more broadly; the ACA has cost less than the Congressional Budget Office expected, and spending growth in the health system overall has been at historic lows (an achievement for which Obamacare deserves some, though not all, of the credit). Cost control in the health system has been so unexpectedly effective that the government is now projected to spend less on health care with Obamacare than we were projected to spend without Obamacare.

This is the reality that Republicans are flinging their repeal effort against — and it is a reality that their plans mostly worsen. According to the Congressional Budget Office, over the next 10 years, 23 million fewer people would have insurance if the House health bill passed, 22 million fewer people would have insurance if the Senate health bill passed, and 32 million fewer people would have insurance if the 2015 repeal bill — which McConnell now wants to bring to a vote — passed.

Obamacare’s biggest problem is the high cost sharing that frustrates those who buy coverage on the marketplaces. But all of the Republican bills would lead to higher deductibles, higher copays, sparer insurance, and, on an apples-to-apples basis, higher premiums. The reasons for this are simple: The GOP bills cancel the individual mandate, which pushes young and healthy people to buy health insurance, and then take hundreds of billions of dollars Obamacare is currently spending to make insurance more affordable and spend it instead on tax cuts and deficit reduction.

If the Affordable Care Act were truly as bad as Republicans say it is, it would be easier to replace. Hell, if it were as bad as they say it is, straight repeal would be an improvement — but even conservative Republicans don’t dare discuss repeal without some kind of vague, wonderful replacement.

Anyone claiming Obama'a fascist care is "working" is a fucking retard.

LOL- yeah- you snowflake Trumpsters do get really pissy when the facts are pointed out to you.

Tell us again about how Trump is going to replace the ACA with a fantastic new health insurance plan that will leave no one out and lower premiums and not take Medicaid away from anyone.

 

[Syriusly]

[
Let me ask you, as an American, I can walk into any hospital in Canada and demand free care, like the Mexicans do here? The answer is "hell no."

If you walk into a hospital in Canada with an emergency- you will get treated regardless of health insurance- just like any hospital here in the United States.

Of course here in the U.S., that goes for Americans, and Mexicans, and Chinese too- hospital emergency rooms are required to treat any emergency call regardless of health insurance or ability to pay. That is the law.

And of course before the ACA, we tax payers paid for all of those visits that weren't covered by insurance. After the ACA, millions of those visits are now covered by insurance.

Republicans are trying to repeal the ACA- so those visits will no longer be covered by insurance- so the hospitals will either eat those costs, or find other ways to bill the government for them.

 

[Chuz Life]

The Republicans had no plan to replace Obamacare, it was all just a rhetorical game to undermine Obama and they are not capable of governing in the Democratic Parties place.

IF the Dems would back off on their Social agenda they can return to power for all I care.

Republicans are obviously not fit to govern.

The Dims are never ever going to change their social agenda. Redistribution of wealth, attacks on the second amendment, support for abortion and the cramming of homosexuality down everyone's throats is about all they know.

So, while I agree it's pretty much time to say fuck you very much to the GOP..... It's still amounts a big fuck off to the leftardz too.

 

[WillowTree]

You cannot improve obamacare, it's a piece of shit. The Republicans were stupid for talking up a repeal replace bs mantra! They should have just left it die on it's own. All they really have to do now is vote out the mandate and the taxes!

Of course the ACA can be improved. They can start by removing the previous GOP sabotage.

But go ahead and keep hoping for that 62nd repeal vote. I hear it's happening on the same day Loretta Lynch is going to be arrested... any day now

What GOP sabatoge! Can you bee specific?

Defunding the high risk pools and GOP states refusing to expand Medicare in order to increase their constituent's pain. That and spending years refusing to do anything but repeal which, we all know now, was just a transparent political stunt.

The best case scenario, that has zero chance of happening of course, is a bipartisan plan to improve the ACA. Or hell, a bipartisan plan to improve the AHCA, which will also never happen.

Then it should be easy to repeal. 61 votes already, right? All it'll take is a 62nd!

Nope... isn't that as obvious as Democrats not fixing the problems with it when they had/have the chance?

When did they have the chance? Republicans took the House and Senate and blocked any notion of changes and sabotaged the fuck out of it. Now Republicans control everything, including the future of healthcare, but you want to pretend they don't? LOL

The best case scenario, that has zero chance of happening of course, is a bipartisan plan to improve the ACA. Or hell, a bipartisan plan to improve the AHCA, which will also never happen.

You cannot improve obamacare, it's a piece of shit. The Republicans were stupid for talking up a repeal replace bs mantra! They should have just left it die on it's own. All they really have to do now is vote out the mandate and the taxes!

Of course the ACA can be improved. They can start by removing the previous GOP sabotage.

But go ahead and keep hoping for that 62nd repeal vote. I hear it's happening on the same day Loretta Lynch is going to be arrested... any day now

All republicans had to do was fix ACA. But instead they want a healthcare bill with their name on it.

They ( along with democrats) don't give a shit about America. They only care about their party.

This is exactly why our two party system needs to change. We need more parties making decisions in D.C

You cannot improve obamacare, it's a piece of shit. The Republicans were stupid for talking up a repeal replace bs mantra! They should have just left it die on it's own. All they really have to do now is vote out the mandate and the taxes!

Of course the ACA can be improved. They can start by removing the previous GOP sabotage.

But go ahead and keep hoping for that 62nd repeal vote. I hear it's happening on the same day Loretta Lynch is going to be arrested... any day now

What GOP sabatoge! Can you bee specific?

Defunding the high risk pools and GOP states refusing to expand Medicare in order to increase their constituent's pain. That and spending years refusing to do anything but repeal which, we all know now, was just a transparent political stunt.

Wait! The demotards gave each state the right to decide on whether they wanted to expand Medicaid, so I don't know how you can call that sabatoge except that you are a dishonest piece of shit. Just like all the other demotards!

no they DID NOT willow....

Republican states SUED Ocare provisions making Medicare expantion mandatory.... it went all the way to the Supreme Court and the Republicans WON and Roberts and court said the State gvts could decide for themselves....

Incorrect!

 

[Syriusly]

The Republicans had no plan to replace Obamacare, it was all just a rhetorical game to undermine Obama and they are not capable of governing in the Democratic Parties place.

IF the Dems would back off on their Social agenda they can return to power for all I care.

Republicans are obviously not fit to govern.

Redistribution of wealth, attacks on the second amendment, support for abortion and the cramming of homosexuality down everyone's throats is about all they know..

Wow- you sure drank a lot of kool aid......

LOL

Poor little snowflake.

 

[Chuz Life]

The Republicans had no plan to replace Obamacare, it was all just a rhetorical game to undermine Obama and they are not capable of governing in the Democratic Parties place.

IF the Dems would back off on their Social agenda they can return to power for all I care.

Republicans are obviously not fit to govern.

Redistribution of wealth, attacks on the second amendment, support for abortion and the cramming of homosexuality down everyone's throats is about all they know..

Wow- you sure drank a lot of kool aid......

LOL

Poor little snowflake.

Projection noted

 

[Dragonlady]

The Republicans had no plan to replace Obamacare, it was all just a rhetorical game to undermine Obama and they are not capable of governing in the Democratic Parties place.

IF the Dems would back off on their Social agenda they can return to power for all I care.

Republicans are obviously not fit to govern.

The Dims are never ever going to change their social agenda. Redistribution of wealth, attacks on the second amendment, support for abortion and the cramming of homosexuality down everyone's throats is about all they know.

So, while I agree it's pretty much time to say fuck you very much to the GOP..... It's still amounts a big fuck off to the leftardz too.

You seem to have no problem with the corporate wage subsidies transferring wealth to the 1% which began under Reagan and continues to this day, or the idea that lower wage workers have seen the buying power of their wages erode over the past 30 years while production and profits have increased.

Democrats don't support abortion, they support a woman's right to choose. No one is forcing women to have abortions. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one.

Nor is homosexuality being "crammed down you throat", as you put it. Rights for gays were granted in Canada 15 years ago. It's had no effect on straights whatsoever.

But cling to your ignorance and prejudice. It's all you've got.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Democrats don't support abortion, they support a woman's right to choose. No one is forcing women to have abortions. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one

Well, THAT'S some twisted logic. SUPPORTING abortion is not the same as FORCED abortions.

What if someone decided he had the right to CHOOSE to terminate an unwanted black life?

"If you dont agree with terminating black lives, don't do it. But who are you to deny another person's CHOICE?!

 

[JimBowie1958]

Projection noted

SJW's are like theater projectors.

 

[jillian]

The Republicans had no plan to replace Obamacare, it was all just a rhetorical game to undermine Obama and they are not capable of governing in the Democratic Parties place.

IF the Dems would back off on their Social agenda they can return to power for all I care.

Republicans are obviously not fit to govern.

perhaps the right should lay off the social agenda.

that said, the rest of your post is true and appreciated.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

perhaps the right should lay off the social agenda.

Perhaps the left should. It is YOU GUYS pushing your social agenda. When we resist, you tell us we can't. Some of the idiotic libertarians want to let you have your way on the "social issues" as well, and complain when true conservatives fight back.

 

[Dragonlady]

Democrats don't support abortion, they support a woman's right to choose. No one is forcing women to have abortions. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one

Well, THAT'S some twisted logic. SUPPORTING abortion is not the same as FORCED abortions.

What if someone decided he had the right to CHOOSE to terminate an unwanted black life?

"If you dont agree with terminating black lives, don't do it. But who are you to deny another person's CHOICE?!

I was responding to a post that said abortion is being "crammed down people's throats".

Your comparison is false. No one is talking about terminating living people, of any colour. We're talking about privacy and self determination. Nothing is more personal than the decision to have a child, and nothing impacts on a family's life more.

Hidden in the Republican health care proposal was removing coverage for women's birth control, and reproductive health. But Viagara is still covered. Deplorable.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

You're misinformed. Our health care goes far beyond "basic" and I'd much rather go to Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto or McMaster Health Sciences Centre to have it done, if I needed it. Why would I fly to a foreign country and pay out of my own pocket when excellent care is available within an hour's drive from my home at no cost to me?

What Heart Valve Operations Are Covered

A family friend had a heart attack while in the US, and asked that he be stabilized, so he could go home to be treated by his Regular cardiologist at Sunnybrook.

My tubal reconstructive surgery was performed by the OB/GYN who pioneered the surgery, and taught Americans how to do it.

You have wonderful care for those who can afford it, but crap care for those who can't. Canadians live longer and healthier lives than Americans.

I seriously doubt anyone who was ill would be turned away from a Canadian hospital. It's not in our nature. It's also in our Constitution that we are required to help others. Students from outside Canada are issued OHIP cards with their visas.

First off, Canada does not provide care to illegals.

{
In 1999, community health workers informed us that large numbers of immigrants and refugees lived and often worked in our Scarborough, Ont, community while being denied access to publicly funded health care.

Our inquiries uncovered empirical evidence that Scarborough’s uninsured experienced health care access inequities, health disparities, financial hardships, and delayed acculturation. Scarborough’s only community health centre (CHC) reported a waiting list of 3000 uninsured newcomers seeking access to health care.}

Health care for Canada’s medically uninsured immigrants and refugees: Whose problem is it?

As far as quality of care;

{
To be sure, Canada's publicly funded system provides individuals with preventative care and medical treatment from primary-care physicians along with access to hospitals and other important medical services. Universal health care is a source of collective pride in Canada, which boasts one of the highest life expectancies and lowest infant mortality rates in the world.


However, the Canadian health-care system is far from perfect, and its shortcomings are a hot-button topic north of the 49th parallel.

Contrary to popular belief among Americans, health care is not entirely free for Canadians. Dental, ambulance and many other services as well as prescription medications must be paid for out of pocket or they're covered through a combination of public programs and private health insurance. About two-thirds of Canadians have such insurance.


The Commonwealth Fund, a U.S. think tank, released a report two years ago ranking Canada 10th out of 11 wealthy nations in terms of health care. Only the United States fared worse. The report, based largely on satisfaction surveys by patients and health-care providers, placed Canada last in timeliness of care. The United Kingdom was ranked No. 1

Few Canadians would be surprised by that finding. A visitor spending an afternoon in a coffee shop anywhere between Vancouver and St. John's would likely come across at least one person complaining about waiting months for an MRI on his knee or an appointment with an ears, nose and throat specialist.

Canadians seek treatment abroad

The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.
}

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
Trump unilaterally made all the moves you listed. Not the Republicans.

Republican President Trump is the head of the Republican party.

The party hasn't done anything, and it just failed on one of its biggest promises. The lie they've been telling for eight years just came back and bit them square on the ass.

The party is split between traditional Republicans who actually want to govern and talk radio libertarians who have been convinced that cooperation is capitulation.
.

All politicians lie. The fascists only chance at regaining power is to create division among the Republicans, so this current bullshit is flying, after the absurd witch hunt fell apart.

 

[Uncensored2008]

They fell for a lot of things Mac. Those red hatted goobers thought that Mexico was going to buy them a wall to cower behind. Oh how they roared with delight when they were told that China was raping us. They weren`t and the orange buffoon has said so after one meeting with China.

We were told by you Nazis that China is raping us, did you miss the DNC sponsored Occupy riots? Blocking $5 billion from leaving the American economy each years, which illegals send to Mexico, will more than pay for the wall.

The Nazi propaganda fails again...