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And old christian friends used to say, humans have the ability to CHOOSE to live as "gods" (small 'g') during our time on this earth, or like demons. We are always forced to make this choice daily. Its always the right choice to live like sons and daughters of the Creator.
That seems like a mixed message to me, since god knowingly sacrificed his own son's life.
No, He didn't. Jesus sacrificed Himself. Do not attempt to cite the Bible when what you actually know about it would fit in a gnat's ear.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son...." Jesus, Cec. I am an atheist and I know the Bible better than you.
But, what really amuses me is that you have posted 17 anti-choice posts in 2 hours, with no replies from me, and virtually every one of them is an insult to me, as if it made the slightest difference, either about abortions, or to me personally. Really, Cec. Get a life!
She was correct. Jesus gave His own life willingly.
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me—because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
John 10:14-18
Demand a refund for your Bible. They obviously left out John 3.16 in the printing.
Since the Government will never overturn Roe V. Wade, as it helps them control the population, decreasing the size it would be, allowing it to sustain itself for a longer duration, by reducing cost of Social Programs, I'll assume you're being hypothetical.False, it's a human, as it cannot be any other species, being a stage of human development at the moment of conception, having a unique DNA sequence, as well as containing all of the information determining what kind of human it develops into. It is a separate and complete human being, undergoing the process of development, as is any other living human. Whether or not it cannot sustain itself is totally irrelevant, there are people on life support who are still humans. There are people missing internal organs, and limbs, all of which are still human. Your argument is, once again, nonsensical, and special pleading.I never advocated locking up anything. You failed to prove that a few posts ago, yet you're so thoroughly defeated that you went back to that anyway.her uterus& its contents = her ownership of said property. why do you feel entitled to lock up her property?
Once again, my argument is, was, and always has been that the act of "abortion" is unethical, not that anyone should initiate force against someone else. The birth process is a passive one, and in the absence of force, will be completed. This means that the active position is the termination of that child, putting the burden of proof on the one seeking to terminate it.
Secondly, the first section of your post is completely nonsensical. All humans are self-owning agents, they therefor own themselves, and have the same rights. Geographical location of a person or object does not put them under the ownership of someone else, and one agent cannot own another without the agent's expressed consent, when they are developed enough to do so. Because an unborn child is incapable of giving consent, implicit consent does not exist, and the child is a self-owning agent, the mother cannot own the child. It is therefor the child's decision regarding what is done with its own life. Saying the child does not own itself is, therefor, special pleading.
except it's not a child until it can own it's life force independently or with medical help & still thrive.
next.
All humans are self-owning agents, and being part of any specific stage of development does not change that it is still human, nor does lacking any one specific feature.
what should happen to females that try to abort if roe v wade is overturned?
Nothing the Government does is ever ethical in any way, therefor I don't advocate that they do anything. In the absence of Government force, however, I'd think that knowing someone murdered a child would cause some people to feel strongly about it, so that person would likely be brought to Private Arbiters by many people.
That seems like a mixed message to me, since god knowingly sacrificed his own son's life.
No, He didn't. Jesus sacrificed Himself. Do not attempt to cite the Bible when what you actually know about it would fit in a gnat's ear.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son...." Jesus, Cec. I am an atheist and I know the Bible better than you.
But, what really amuses me is that you have posted 17 anti-choice posts in 2 hours, with no replies from me, and virtually every one of them is an insult to me, as if it made the slightest difference, either about abortions, or to me personally. Really, Cec. Get a life!
She was correct. Jesus gave His own life willingly.
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me—because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
John 10:14-18
Demand a refund for your Bible. They obviously left out John 3.16 in the printing.
They are not mutually exclusive. Jesus and the Father are ONE. This is basic stuff, I can't believe you're even arguing that Jesus did not give His life willingly. I could post lots more verses for you, if you want.
Yeah really. You thought a glob of cells couldn’t possibly look human, but then I enlightened. Thank you very much.He gave up on the “glob of cells” fallacious argument several pages back, when I blew it up.Yanno, we disagree on that - obviously - but if you truly believe that which is growing in a woman's womb is just a "glob of cells" (or whatever) and not simply a rationalization, it is a legit excuse for believing it's OK to murder it.You were schooled on this earlier. You need to learn to pay attention.because a zygote isn't a baby.... an embryo isn't a baby... a 9+ gestational fetus is not a baby................. only a viable late term fetus & a post born human being is .............
that's why.
First trimester development of embryo/fetus. A developing baby is called an embryo from the moment conception takes place until the eighth week of pregnancy. ... During the third month of pregnancy, bones and muscles begin to grow, buds for future teeth appear, and fingers and toes grow.Aug 29, 2017
nope. it ain't a baby until it's fully cooked.
JFTR, I have 3 daughters and a way-too-cute nearly 3 yr old g-daughter. I am as committed to defending their rights and by extension those of all females as anyone on the planet.
lol..no not really. & i am a she.
Yes it is.Viability is bs and you know it.Why?
i've used the words viability without out medical intervention & viability with it, & post born persons with a history many times on this thread when distinguishing the difference about abortion.
nope it's not.
I really would like to know exactly what you guys are advocating. Is it to overturn Roe? It has already been demonstrated that this would not stop abortions. Is it to convince people that they are evil? Good luck with that! Is it just a general condemnation? Well, fine, if it makes you feel better, but it does not change anything.
What?
an embryo/fetus is not a person born in the United States; as a consequence, it is not a citizen, not a person, and not entitled to Constitutional protections.
Every fucking time you meatheads bring this up, I point out fetal homicide laws.
Laws that were pushed through deliberately for the purpose of creating a wedge for the anti-abortionist cause. Not much validation really.
And old christian friends used to say, humans have the ability to CHOOSE to live as "gods" (small 'g') during our time on this earth, or like demons. We are always forced to make this choice daily. Its always the right choice to live like sons and daughters of the Creator.
That seems like a mixed message to me, since god knowingly sacrificed his own son's life.
No, He didn't. Jesus sacrificed Himself. Do not attempt to cite the Bible when what you actually know about it would fit in a gnat's ear.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son...." Jesus, Cec. I am an atheist and I know the Bible better than you.
But, what really amuses me is that you have posted 17 anti-choice posts in 2 hours, with no replies from me, and virtually every one of them is an insult to me, as if it made the slightest difference, either about abortions, or to me personally. Really, Cec. Get a life!
She was correct. Jesus gave His own life willingly.
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me—because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
John 10:14-18
Demand a refund for your Bible. They obviously left out John 3.16 in the printing.
Yeah really. You thought a glob of cells couldn’t possibly look human, but then I enlightened. Thank you very much.He gave up on the “glob of cells” fallacious argument several pages back, when I blew it up.Yanno, we disagree on that - obviously - but if you truly believe that which is growing in a woman's womb is just a "glob of cells" (or whatever) and not simply a rationalization, it is a legit excuse for believing it's OK to murder it.You were schooled on this earlier. You need to learn to pay attention.
nope. it ain't a baby until it's fully cooked.
JFTR, I have 3 daughters and a way-too-cute nearly 3 yr old g-daughter. I am as committed to defending their rights and by extension those of all females as anyone on the planet.
lol..no not really. & i am a she.
I would like to stop murder...but since we can’t, let’s allow it. see how dumb your argument is?Yes it is.Viability is bs and you know it.Why?
i've used the words viability without out medical intervention & viability with it, & post born persons with a history many times on this thread when distinguishing the difference about abortion.
nope it's not.
I really would like to know exactly what you guys are advocating. Is it to overturn Roe? It has already been demonstrated that this would not stop abortions. Is it to convince people that they are evil? Good luck with that! Is it just a general condemnation? Well, fine, if it makes you feel better, but it does not change anything.
What?
an embryo/fetus is not a person born in the United States; as a consequence, it is not a citizen, not a person, and not entitled to Constitutional protections.
Every fucking time you meatheads bring this up, I point out fetal homicide laws.
Laws that were pushed through deliberately for the purpose of creating a wedge for the anti-abortionist cause. Not much validation really.
Fetal homicide laws existed long before Roe v Wade you assclown.
They've been radical expanded by pro-lifers, dingleberry.
I am very good at reading between the lines.Yeah really. You thought a glob of cells couldn’t possibly look human, but then I enlightened. Thank you very much.He gave up on the “glob of cells” fallacious argument several pages back, when I blew it up.Yanno, we disagree on that - obviously - but if you truly believe that which is growing in a woman's womb is just a "glob of cells" (or whatever) and not simply a rationalization, it is a legit excuse for believing it's OK to murder it.nope. it ain't a baby until it's fully cooked.
JFTR, I have 3 daughters and a way-too-cute nearly 3 yr old g-daughter. I am as committed to defending their rights and by extension those of all females as anyone on the planet.
lol..no not really. & i am a she.
so you are saying that i said it couldn't possibly look 'human'? oooOOooo you little liar you. i said that it's not accurate in its portrayal.
What the hell does that mean in the tard mind?And old christian friends used to say, humans have the ability to CHOOSE to live as "gods" (small 'g') during our time on this earth, or like demons. We are always forced to make this choice daily. Its always the right choice to live like sons and daughters of the Creator.
That seems like a mixed message to me, since god knowingly sacrificed his own son's life.
No, He didn't. Jesus sacrificed Himself. Do not attempt to cite the Bible when what you actually know about it would fit in a gnat's ear.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son...." Jesus, Cec. I am an atheist and I know the Bible better than you.
But, what really amuses me is that you have posted 17 anti-choice posts in 2 hours, with no replies from me, and virtually every one of them is an insult to me, as if it made the slightest difference, either about abortions, or to me personally. Really, Cec. Get a life!
She was correct. Jesus gave His own life willingly.
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me—because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
John 10:14-18
Demand a refund for your Bible. They obviously left out John 3.16 in the printing.
I am very good at reading between the lines.Yeah really. You thought a glob of cells couldn’t possibly look human, but then I enlightened. Thank you very much.He gave up on the “glob of cells” fallacious argument several pages back, when I blew it up.Yanno, we disagree on that - obviously - but if you truly believe that which is growing in a woman's womb is just a "glob of cells" (or whatever) and not simply a rationalization, it is a legit excuse for believing it's OK to murder it.
JFTR, I have 3 daughters and a way-too-cute nearly 3 yr old g-daughter. I am as committed to defending their rights and by extension those of all females as anyone on the planet.
lol..no not really. & i am a she.
so you are saying that i said it couldn't possibly look 'human'? oooOOooo you little liar you. i said that it's not accurate in its portrayal.
I would like to stop murder...but since we can’t, let’s allow it. see how dumb your argument is?Yes it is.Viability is bs and you know it.i've used the words viability without out medical intervention & viability with it, & post born persons with a history many times on this thread when distinguishing the difference about abortion.
nope it's not.
I really would like to know exactly what you guys are advocating. Is it to overturn Roe? It has already been demonstrated that this would not stop abortions. Is it to convince people that they are evil? Good luck with that! Is it just a general condemnation? Well, fine, if it makes you feel better, but it does not change anything.
What?
What the hell does that mean in the tard mind?That seems like a mixed message to me, since god knowingly sacrificed his own son's life.
No, He didn't. Jesus sacrificed Himself. Do not attempt to cite the Bible when what you actually know about it would fit in a gnat's ear.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son...." Jesus, Cec. I am an atheist and I know the Bible better than you.
But, what really amuses me is that you have posted 17 anti-choice posts in 2 hours, with no replies from me, and virtually every one of them is an insult to me, as if it made the slightest difference, either about abortions, or to me personally. Really, Cec. Get a life!
She was correct. Jesus gave His own life willingly.
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me—because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
John 10:14-18
Demand a refund for your Bible. They obviously left out John 3.16 in the printing.
Are you sure you are female?I am very good at reading between the lines.Yeah really. You thought a glob of cells couldn’t possibly look human, but then I enlightened. Thank you very much.He gave up on the “glob of cells” fallacious argument several pages back, when I blew it up.
lol..no not really. & i am a she.
so you are saying that i said it couldn't possibly look 'human'? oooOOooo you little liar you. i said that it's not accurate in its portrayal.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!right - just like you thought i was a male all this time.
No, He didn't. Jesus sacrificed Himself. Do not attempt to cite the Bible when what you actually know about it would fit in a gnat's ear.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son...." Jesus, Cec. I am an atheist and I know the Bible better than you.
But, what really amuses me is that you have posted 17 anti-choice posts in 2 hours, with no replies from me, and virtually every one of them is an insult to me, as if it made the slightest difference, either about abortions, or to me personally. Really, Cec. Get a life!
She was correct. Jesus gave His own life willingly.
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me—because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
John 10:14-18
Demand a refund for your Bible. They obviously left out John 3.16 in the printing.
They are not mutually exclusive. Jesus and the Father are ONE. This is basic stuff, I can't believe you're even arguing that Jesus did not give His life willingly. I could post lots more verses for you, if you want.
People cherry picking the Bible is one of many reasons that I am an atheist, so don't bother.
actually, no.... by definition, they are parasitic until the cord is cut. do you view post born children as parasites if they are on state aid like you think of their welfare queen mamas? who keeps cutting programs like WIC & CHIP?
Sickening, wrong and demonstrably false, as the article below shows. But if you only meant that in a figurative way, because a preborn is dependent on you, well so are your children. Are they parasites?
Why the Embryo or Fetus Is Not a Parasite
- a) A parasite is defined as an organism of one species living in or on an organism of another species (a heterospecific relationship) and deriving its nourishment from the host (is metabolically dependent on the host).
b) A human embryo or fetus is an organism of one species (Homo sapiens) living in the uterine cavity of an organism of the same species (Homo sapiens) and deriving its nourishment from the mother (is metabolically dependent on the mother). This homospecific relationship is an obligatory dependent relationship, but not a parasitic relationship.
- a) A parasite is an invading organism -- coming to parasitize the host from an outside source.
b) A human embryo or fetus is formed from a fertilized egg -- the egg coming from an inside source, being formed in the ovary of the mother from where it moves into the oviduct where it may be fertilized to form the zygote -- the first cell of the new human being.
- a) A parasite is generally harmful to some degree to the host that is harboring the parasite
.
b) A human embryo or fetus developing in the uterine cavity does not usually cause harm to the mother, although it may if proper nutrition and care is not maintained by the mother.
- a) A parasite makes direct contact with the host's tissues, often holding on by either mouth parts, hooks or suckers to the tissues involved (intestinal lining, lungs, connective tissue, etc.)
b) A human embryo or fetus makes direct contact with the uterine lining of the mother for only a short period of time. It soon becomes isolated inside its own amniotic sac, and from that point on makes indirect contact with the mother only by way of the umbilical cord and placenta.
- a) When a parasite invades host tissue, the host tissue will sometimes respond by forming a capsule (of connective tissue) to surround the parasite and cut it off from other surrounding tissue (examples would be Paragonimus westermani, lung fluke, or Oncocerca volvulus, a nematode worm causing cutaneous filariasis in the human).
b) When the human embryo or fetus attaches to and invades the lining tissue of the mother's uterus, the lining tissue responds by surrounding the human embryo and does not cut it off from the mother, but rather establishes a means of close contact (the placenta) between the mother and the new human being.
- a) When a parasite invades a host, the host will usually respond by forming antibodies in response to the somatic antigens (molecules comprising the body of the parasite) or metabolic antigens (molecules secreted or excreted by the parasite) of the parasite. Parasitism usually involves an immunological response on the part of the host. (See Cheng, T.C., General Parasitology, p. 8.)
- b) New evidence, presented by Beer and Billingham in their article, "The Embryo as a Transplant" indicates that the mother does react to the presence of the embryo by producing humoral antibodies, but they suggest that the trophoblast -- the jacket of cells surrounding the embryo -- blocks the action of these antibodies and therefore the embryo or fetus is not rejected. This reaction is unique to the embryo-mother relationship.
- a) A parasite is generally detrimental to the reproductive capacity of the invaded host. The host may be weakened, diseased or killed by the parasite, thus reducing or eliminating the host's capacity to reproduce.
b) A human embryo or fetus is absolutely essential to the reproductive capacity of the involved mother (and species). The mother is usually not weakened, diseased or killed by the presence of the embryo or fetus, but rather is fully tolerant of this offspring which must begin his or her life in this intimate and highly specialized relationship with the mother.
- a) A parasite is an organism that, once it invades the definitive host, will usually remain with host for life (as long as it or the host survives).
b) A human embryo or fetus has a temporary association with the mother, remaining only a number of months in the uterus.
A parasite is an organism that associates with the host in a negative, unhealthy and nonessential (nonessential to the host) manner which will often damage the host and detrimentally affect the procreative capacity of the host (and species).
A human embryo or fetus is a human being that associates with the mother in a positive, healthful essential manner necessary for the procreation of the species.
(This data was compiled by Thomas L. Johnson, Professor of Biology, Mary Washington College, Fredericksburg, VA. Professor Johnson teaches Chordate Embryology and Parasitology.)
Source: http://www.l4l.org/l
uh-huh. different species being the distinction without a difference. if it feeds on the host to survive & cannot live with out that host then yep - it's parasitic.
You're joking, right? You actually believe the preborn baby is a different species?
oh holy cow i said that is the DISTINCTION without a DIFFERENCE. meaning that 'just because' the zygote/embryo/unviable fetus has human DNA... does not make it any less parasitic because a definition says that it needs to be of a different species. the resulting mannerisms is still all the same when it's weeks or a few months in gestation.
Are you sure you are female?I am very good at reading between the lines.Yeah really. You thought a glob of cells couldn’t possibly look human, but then I enlightened. Thank you very much.lol..no not really. & i am a she.
so you are saying that i said it couldn't possibly look 'human'? oooOOooo you little liar you. i said that it's not accurate in its portrayal.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!right - just like you thought i was a male all this time.
I guess to you it is surprising that I don’t like murder. Why do you? Are you the grandson of Himmler?I would like to stop murder...but since we can’t, let’s allow it. see how dumb your argument is?Yes it is.Viability is bs and you know it.
nope it's not.
I really would like to know exactly what you guys are advocating. Is it to overturn Roe? It has already been demonstrated that this would not stop abortions. Is it to convince people that they are evil? Good luck with that! Is it just a general condemnation? Well, fine, if it makes you feel better, but it does not change anything.
What?
Since you did not answer my question, and it has already been demonstrated that you can not stop abortions, I assume that you are posting here because you want to make general condemnations. Ok. Now, that won't change anything, but does it make you feel belter?
