My problem with the NFL re: National Anthem

[danielpalos]

So the Pittsburgh Steelers, especially their coach, wanted to show support for a player's right to kneel, stand, or whatever by encouraging and pressuring all of their team members to boycott the national anthem 'to remove themselves from the circumstance'. .

Offensive tackle Alejandro Villanueva, however, wanted to exercise HIS right to go out, stand, and put his hand over his heart in respect to the flag. Villanueva, by the way, served his country as an Army Ranger and, respectfully, he wanted no part of a team 'show of unity' by disrespecting the flag.

To Villanueva, to stay in the locker room during the anthem was pretty much the same as taking a knee on the sideline. So, he, on his own, came out and honored the flag. Tomlin 'took a swipe' at him when talking to the media for not joining with his team in protest.

Umm, I thought the point was players should not be maligned for their choices, Coach Tomlin? Or maybe you were saying loyalty to team is more important to country?

Kudos to Villanueva for standing up and putting nation / patriotism over 'team solidarity' when, in his opinion, what they were doing was the wrong move...at least it was for him.

Are you really going to tell a former Army ranger, how to respect the colors?

I am certainly not going to tell an Army Ranger he CAN'T respect the colors and that he should show team unity by joining the team in DIS-respecting the colors!

Kneeling is not a form of disrespect.

Monoculturalism requires bigotry.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I see photos like the one in your post, Hutch Starskey, and I'm reminded that people want us to believe that the Confederate flag wavers aren't espousing hatred and bigotry. In turn, I wonder just how stupid are the people who say that is so, but I know the answer: stupid enough to think the rest of us believe sh*t when they utter it.

What would happen to an NFL player if he took out a confederate battle flag and waved it during the National Anthem?

Do you believe it's respectful of the flag to wave a confederate battle flag at all?

I realize you have a great desire to equate opposition to millionaires protesting at a game to the confederate battle flag. Personally I think those waving the confederate battle flag are disrespectful jerks just as I think those who kneel at football games are disrespectful. My ancestors fought under the stars and strips and as far as I know always have.

I didn't equate anything. You did, dope.

What would happen to an NFL player if he took out a confederate battle flag and waved it during the National Anthem

So their first amendment rights would go by the way side, because it is deemed not politically correct. Which it wouldn't be and I would ask them to be removed, just like all protesting millionaires.

A whole post directed at me about confederate flag waving and now you lie about it. Expected.

My post responded to yours. I quoted your posts, dope.

 

[danielpalos]

How is kneeling during the pledge, "a lack of respect"?

It is, as Kaepernick himself stated, a form of PROTEST.

Why protest the ENTIRE NATION when you are 'offended' by individual acts of racism in this country?

Why protest the ENTIRE NATION when you are offended by the actions of a small minority number of white supremacists, of self-proclaimed fascist anarchist, of homophobes, of anti-Semites, etc?

'Generalization' is the lumping in of / labeling of / assigning characteristics / condemnation of a large group based on the actions of a smaller sub-group within that larger group.

These protests against the United Stated, our flag, and our national anthem are an illogical, inappropriate rebuke / protest of our country as a whole, illogically condemning the whole for the actions of a minority few.

You don't like how the police treat blacks? Protest the police.
You don't like white supremacists? Go protest white supremacists.
You don't like homosexuals being denied service in businesses? Go protest the businesses.
The American flag and this country does not stand for those things.

How do I know? Because the American flag has covered many men and women on their last trip home, men and women who have fought for freedom, liberty, equality, freedom of speech, freedom to assemble, and every other Constitutional Right, regardless of race, color, religion, or sex.

View attachment 151234

You want to get pissed that certain INDIVIDUALS abuse the rights, liberties, and freedoms this country have provided for everyone, then go for it...but don't idiotically blame and disrespect the nation / country as a whole.

My 2 cents...

Seems like a respectful form of protest.

They are not doing the "Safety Dance" during the pledge.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Per the NFL rulebook:

1. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country.

Why do you not respect the flag or our country. Our country is the people. There are other ways to show your discontent with the President. People take not standing up for the flag as an insult on the United States as a unit. It makes people feel that you don't want to be here or don't like the unit as a whole (not just the administration) - and there are a lot of people that worked hard to build the US that are still alive today. There are a lot of people young and old that have risked their lives for the United States.

STFU you fucking hypocrite, I bet you've NEVER stood up at home when you hear a national anthem.

who's judging her at home? the line is about in public and a show of respect.

What line?

The line where you publicly judge someone for not meeting your expectations?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Per the NFL rulebook:

1. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country.

Why do you not respect the flag or our country. Our country is the people. There are other ways to show your discontent with the President. People take not standing up for the flag as an insult on the United States as a unit. It makes people feel that you don't want to be here or don't like the unit as a whole (not just the administration) - and there are a lot of people that worked hard to build the US that are still alive today. There are a lot of people young and old that have risked their lives for the United States.

It's a non-issue. These are silent protests that hurt no one. It's only meant to bring attention to social inequities. No one is being attacked, there is nothing destructive in doing so.

This below is what destructive, devisive behavior and disrespect looks like.

View attachment 151215

I see photos like the one in your post, Hutch Starskey, and I'm reminded that people want us to believe that the Confederate flag wavers aren't espousing hatred and bigotry. In turn, I wonder just how stupid are the people who say that is so, but I know the answer: stupid enough to think the rest of us believe sh*t when they utter it.

What would happen to an NFL player if he took out a confederate battle flag and waved it during the National Anthem?

Do you believe it's respectful of the flag to wave a confederate battle flag at all?

in battle?

In any way.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I see photos like the one in your post, Hutch Starskey, and I'm reminded that people want us to believe that the Confederate flag wavers aren't espousing hatred and bigotry. In turn, I wonder just how stupid are the people who say that is so, but I know the answer: stupid enough to think the rest of us believe sh*t when they utter it.

I used to have the CBF displayed at my home in MD, and when a neighbor complained to me personally about it and explained why, I took it down and put it in my closet.

My sole reason for displaying the flag was that I am a military history fan, and I enjoy reading about the Civil War and displayed the flag as a reminder of that war.

Others, like the Sons of Confederate Veterans display their flags in annual ceremonies honoring the Civil War dead of both sides.

You really shouldnt play Kreskin and try to read the minds of other people whose pics you see on the internet.

 

[easyt65]

Kneeling is not a form of disrespect.

Thank you for your opinion. Please write a letter to Kaepernick and tell him this, as he is the one who said he was doing so IN PROTEST.

To disrespect something you have to take action, physically DO something in protest.
- You have dozens of guys on the sideline just standing there waiting for the game to start. The colors come out, a singer starts singing the anthem...and you do not have to honor the anthem / colors by putting your hand over your heart. You can just stand there, doing what you were already doing. Instead, people take a knee - an action in direct protest of the anthem. It takes less effort to just stand there. Taking a knee is a visible effort-taking outward sign that you are protesting / in disagreement with something. It is a sign that is MEANT TO BE VISIBLE, T ODRAW ATTENTION.

Please do not be intellectually dishonest or so naive as to try to tell people Kaepernick never intended to draw attention to himself when he 1st kneed down.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I see photos like the one in your post, Hutch Starskey, and I'm reminded that people want us to believe that the Confederate flag wavers aren't espousing hatred and bigotry. In turn, I wonder just how stupid are the people who say that is so, but I know the answer: stupid enough to think the rest of us believe sh*t when they utter it.

I used to have the CBF displayed at my home in MD, and when a neighbor complained to me personally about it and explained why, I took it down and put it in my closet.

My sole reason for displaying the flag was that I am a military history fan, and I enjoy reading about the Civil War and displayed the flag as a reminder of that war.

Others, like the Sons of Confederate Veterans display their flags in annual ceremonies honoring the Civil War dead of both sides.

You really shouldnt play Kreskin and try to read the minds of other people whose pics you see on the internet.

There's no ambiguity about the intentions of the flag bearers in the subject photo.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I see photos like the one in your post, Hutch Starskey, and I'm reminded that people want us to believe that the Confederate flag wavers aren't espousing hatred and bigotry. In turn, I wonder just how stupid are the people who say that is so, but I know the answer: stupid enough to think the rest of us believe sh*t when they utter it.

I used to have the CBF displayed at my home in MD, and when a neighbor complained to me personally about it and explained why, I took it down and put it in my closet.

My sole reason for displaying the flag was that I am a military history fan, and I enjoy reading about the Civil War and displayed the flag as a reminder of that war.

Others, like the Sons of Confederate Veterans display their flags in annual ceremonies honoring the Civil War dead of both sides.

You really shouldnt play Kreskin and try to read the minds of other people whose pics you see on the internet.

There's no ambiguity about the intentions of the flag bearers in the subject photo.

View attachment 151235

Thank you.

I couldn't think of something polite to say in response to Jim's comment, so I just didn't post anything.

 

[easyt65]

Kneeling is not a form of disrespect.

'Disrespect' is not universal. You would think people would have realized that by now. So many Americans are claiming to be 'offended' and 'disrespected' yet they do not fully understand the meaning / concept of the word - the ENTIRE spectrum of 'disrespect', nor do they understand that 'disrespect' is not a one-way street, does not mean only what THEY deem it to be.

For Example: Many people who fly the Confederate Flag do not see it or mean it to be a sign of 'disrespect' to anyone. Some people believe saying 'yes sir/no sir' is a sign of respect while refusing to say so is 'disrespect'. To some Middle Easterners to show someone the bottom of your foot is a tremendous insult and sign of disrespect.

You feel as if kneeling for the National Anthem is not a form of disrespect. I am not saying you are wrong. I am just pointing out that a majority of Americans do not agree with you.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I couldn't think of something polite to say in response to Jim's comment, so I just didn't post anything.

Dont really want to derail this thread, but do you seriously think that everyone flying the CBF has only one purpose for doing so?

That is very simplistic.

 

[easyt65]

There's no ambiguity about the intentions of the flag bearers in the subject photo.

View attachment 151235

They are also NOT 'The United States', the National Anthem that plays is not 'for' / doesn't represent THEM, and the American flag is not 'theirs'. As you can see, they have their own flag - so why boycott the US Flag and national Anthem because these racist assholes like parading around putting their intolerance, ignorance, and racism on display?

Doesn't make sense to me....

 

[featherlite]

So the Pittsburgh Steelers, especially their coach, wanted to show support for a player's right to kneel, stand, or whatever by encouraging and pressuring all of their team members to boycott the national anthem 'to remove themselves from the circumstance'. .

Offensive tackle Alejandro Villanueva, however, wanted to exercise HIS right to go out, stand, and put his hand over his heart in respect to the flag. Villanueva, by the way, served his country as an Army Ranger and, respectfully, he wanted no part of a team 'show of unity' by disrespecting the flag.

To Villanueva, to stay in the locker room during the anthem was pretty much the same as taking a knee on the sideline. So, he, on his own, came out and honored the flag. Tomlin 'took a swipe' at him when talking to the media for not joining with his team in protest.

Umm, I thought the point was players should not be maligned for their choices, Coach Tomlin? Or maybe you were saying loyalty to team is more important to country?

Kudos to Villanueva for standing up and putting nation / patriotism over 'team solidarity' when, in his opinion, what they were doing was the wrong move...at least it was for him.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

There's no ambiguity about the intentions of the flag bearers in the subject photo.

View attachment 151235

They are also NOT 'The United States', the National Anthem that plays is not 'for' / doesn't represent THEM, and the American flag is not 'theirs'. As you can see, they have their own flag - so why boycott the US Flag and national Anthem because these racist assholes like parading around putting their intolerance, ignorance, and racism on display?

Doesn't make sense to me....

You don't make sense to anyone.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Per the NFL rulebook:

1. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country.

Why do you not respect the flag or our country. Our country is the people. There are other ways to show your discontent with the President. People take not standing up for the flag as an insult on the United States as a unit. It makes people feel that you don't want to be here or don't like the unit as a whole (not just the administration) - and there are a lot of people that worked hard to build the US that are still alive today. There are a lot of people young and old that have risked their lives for the United States.

STFU you fucking hypocrite, I bet you've NEVER stood up at home when you hear a national anthem.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

At least the Chinese don't sit around drinking tea and complaining about all the other people who don't stand when they drink tea.

Did you wake up this morning with the intent to be an asshole? If not, you succeeded anyway!

You couldn't dispute what I said so you turned to a personal attack. Your concession is duly noted.

Oh, so you didn't call someone a hypocrite and tell them to STFU?

Taz, meet Ignore!

Taz is a fucking idiot.

Ignore, meet Taz.

Ignore doesn't say much. In fact, he never says anything!

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ignore doesn't say much. In fact, he never says anything!

Wow, you two must be very good friends.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Where does the NFL rule book say that fans at home stand when the national anthem is played on TV?

My local radio station plays it at 6am every day. Am I supposed to stop on the interstate, get out of my car, and stand at attention with my hand over my heart?

Then don't complain when others don't either.

Please show me anywhere that is a requirement in the privacy of your own home.

When traveling on Army posts, I have to do this very thing, and some of those are just bugle calls!

Please show me the punishment all those players got when they knelt last sunday. None you say? Then it's not a requirement.

They should be warned as Jerry Jones did his players and then cut from the roster. If I protested at work that would happen to me in a heartbeat.

Jerry Jones should quit fucking up the Cowboys and get a real coach and GM, and then go sit somewhere way far in the back and STFU.
As if he's firing Dak if he takes a knee. Gimme a fuckin' break!

I doubt Dak would take a knee if he knew he would be fired. He now knows. Did he take a knee? No.

 

[featherlite]

Totally respect this player, takes courage to do this right now. ( who chose to stand)
The thing is, our bloviating president shouldn't have said what he did. What a moron. I don't think hes a white supremacist, but he sure as shit doesn't know what this country is about.
The bright side is... all the idiots are being exposed.

The man below is a vet ...
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. — A photo of a 97-year-old Missouri man kneeling to show solidarity with black football players has been shared thousands of times as his message of peace and acceptance spreads across the Internet.

The photo of John Middlemas was posted to Twitter by a younger relative at about 9:30 a.m. CT on Sunday, a few hours before numerous National Football League players knelt while the national anthem was played.

"My grandpa is a 97 year-old WWII vet & Missouri farmer who wanted to join (with) those who #Takeaknee: 'those kids have every right to protest,' " wrote Brennan Gilmore as a caption to the photo of Middlemas.

Column: Trump's rhetoric forces NFL teams to take stand as owners, players unite

More: Steelers don't participate in national anthem, with exception of ex-Ranger Alejandro Villanueva

As of Monday morning, the post had been retweeted more than 123,000 times and "liked" by more than 322,000 accounts.

My grandpa is a 97 year-old WWII vet & Missouri farmer who wanted to join w/ those who #TakeaKnee: "those kids have every right to protest." pic.twitter.com/LurCj7SLUB

— Brennan Gilmore (@brennanmgilmore) September 24, 2017
Colin Kaepernick started kneeling for the national anthem in 2016 as a way to protest police violence against African Americans. At the time Kaepernick was playing for the San Francisco 49ers. He is currently unsigned.

Civil rights activism is old hat for Middlemas. His desire to be inclusive is rooted in his time serving alongside black members of the military while deployed on a submarine.

In an interview, Middlemas said, "I wanted to communicate what I always told to my grandkids and everybody else. When they'd go to bed at night, we'd tell the kids we wanted to be like Jesus."

By that, Middlemas wants to communicate a message of peace and acceptance.

Column: In wake of President Trumps harsh words, it's time for NFL owners to sign Colin Kaepernick

More: Chiefs QB Alex Smith: President Trump 'couldn't condemn violent neo-Nazis'

"I'm trying to say that you have to love everybody," he said, adding he hopes "the whole world" will get his message. "We don't kill people. We want to make people live."

One member of Middlemas' intended audience is President Trump, whose comments at a campaign rally Friday in Alabama about athletes who don't stand for the anthem sparked the response from the NFL and others over the weekend. Trump said said NFL owners should "fire or suspend" players who protest.

The Willard farmer, not a fan of Trump, called the president "garbage-mouthed."



In 2013, Middlemas participated in what he called "the most important march I've ever made in my life" — a Springfield event called the "Unity March" meant to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" speech.

Middlemas, who was 93 at the time, was one of the last to finish the parade. He said then that he'd been marching for 45 to 50 years.

Middlemas always admired King, watched him preach and could recite his words. He had hoped King would one day be president, and he regrets King never fulfilled that dream, he said in 2013.

Contributing: Juliana Goodwin and Dean Curtis, Springfield (Mo.) News-Leader. Follow Will Schmitt on Twitter: @ws_missouri[/QUOTE]

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Per the NFL rulebook:

1. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country.

Why do you not respect the flag or our country. Our country is the people. There are other ways to show your discontent with the President. People take not standing up for the flag as an insult on the United States as a unit. It makes people feel that you don't want to be here or don't like the unit as a whole (not just the administration) - and there are a lot of people that worked hard to build the US that are still alive today. There are a lot of people young and old that have risked their lives for the United States.

It's a non-issue. These are silent protests that hurt no one. It's only meant to bring attention to social inequities. No one is being attacked, there is nothing destructive in doing so.

This below is what destructive, devisive behavior and disrespect looks like.

View attachment 151215

I see photos like the one in your post, Hutch Starskey, and I'm reminded that people want us to believe that the Confederate flag wavers aren't espousing hatred and bigotry. In turn, I wonder just how stupid are the people who say that is so, but I know the answer: stupid enough to think the rest of us believe sh*t when they utter it.

What would happen to an NFL player if he took out a confederate battle flag and waved it during the National Anthem?

Do you believe it's respectful of the flag to wave a confederate battle flag at all?

You do realize tat waving a Confederate Battle flag would be considered the same type of protest you are supporting? There is no difference.

Let me try waving a Confederate Battle flag at work and see what happens to me!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Totally respect this player, takes courage to do this right now. ( who chose to stand)
The thing is, our bloviating president shouldn't have said what he did. What a moron. I don't think hes a white supremacist, but he sure as shit doesn't know what this country is about.
The bright side is... all the idiots are being exposed.

The man below is a vet ...
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. — A photo of a 97-year-old Missouri man kneeling to show solidarity with black football players has been shared thousands of times as his message of peace and acceptance spreads across the Internet.

The photo of John Middlemas was posted to Twitter by a younger relative at about 9:30 a.m. CT on Sunday, a few hours before numerous National Football League players knelt while the national anthem was played.

"My grandpa is a 97 year-old WWII vet & Missouri farmer who wanted to join (with) those who #Takeaknee: 'those kids have every right to protest,' " wrote Brennan Gilmore as a caption to the photo of Middlemas.

Column: Trump's rhetoric forces NFL teams to take stand as owners, players unite

More: Steelers don't participate in national anthem, with exception of ex-Ranger Alejandro Villanueva

As of Monday morning, the post had been retweeted more than 123,000 times and "liked" by more than 322,000 accounts.

My grandpa is a 97 year-old WWII vet & Missouri farmer who wanted to join w/ those who #TakeaKnee: "those kids have every right to protest." pic.twitter.com/LurCj7SLUB

— Brennan Gilmore (@brennanmgilmore) September 24, 2017
Colin Kaepernick started kneeling for the national anthem in 2016 as a way to protest police violence against African Americans. At the time Kaepernick was playing for the San Francisco 49ers. He is currently unsigned.

Civil rights activism is old hat for Middlemas. His desire to be inclusive is rooted in his time serving alongside black members of the military while deployed on a submarine.

In an interview, Middlemas said, "I wanted to communicate what I always told to my grandkids and everybody else. When they'd go to bed at night, we'd tell the kids we wanted to be like Jesus."

By that, Middlemas wants to communicate a message of peace and acceptance.

Column: In wake of President Trumps harsh words, it's time for NFL owners to sign Colin Kaepernick

More: Chiefs QB Alex Smith: President Trump 'couldn't condemn violent neo-Nazis'

"I'm trying to say that you have to love everybody," he said, adding he hopes "the whole world" will get his message. "We don't kill people. We want to make people live."

One member of Middlemas' intended audience is President Trump, whose comments at a campaign rally Friday in Alabama about athletes who don't stand for the anthem sparked the response from the NFL and others over the weekend. Trump said said NFL owners should "fire or suspend" players who protest.

The Willard farmer, not a fan of Trump, called the president "garbage-mouthed."



In 2013, Middlemas participated in what he called "the most important march I've ever made in my life" — a Springfield event called the "Unity March" meant to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" speech.

Middlemas, who was 93 at the time, was one of the last to finish the parade. He said then that he'd been marching for 45 to 50 years.

Middlemas always admired King, watched him preach and could recite his words. He had hoped King would one day be president, and he regrets King never fulfilled that dream, he said in 2013.

Contributing: Juliana Goodwin and Dean Curtis, Springfield (Mo.) News-Leader. Follow Will Schmitt on Twitter: @ws_missouri

Alzheimers is a terrible disease.