Nathan Bedford Forrest statue causing controversy

[bodecea]

First off it is not "our" society it was THEIR society......

Not to mention everyone on this planet is a descended from a slave... What makes American slavery any worse than other slavery that has occurred throughout history???

If anything the US practiced the most civil slavery in history....

Slaves weren't a dime a dozen - they were luxuries..... People don't beat the shit out of and rape their luxury assets.....

I'm getting quite sick of progressives portraying slaves as human punching bags and baby factories...

Nick....I'm begging you.

Stop

Just leave the thread and pretend it doesn't exist. Your posts embarrass not only you, but everyone in our society. I realize there are still people like you out there......but you are better off not advertising the fact

Yeah I only own 20+ books that deal with or address this topic.....

You can go and believe the dog shit they shove down your throat... You know - US slavery was the largest atrocity in modern history and you should feel white guilt over something that happened 150+ years ago.....

Go read a fucking book....

The idea that all slaves were beaten and raped and generally treated with disrespect is total propaganda...... If everyone hated black folks and slaves there would have never been a successful "underground railroad."

How sad you never read them.

 

[bodecea]

You know why they were indentured slaves on contracts as much as 10+ years??? because they weren't property and entered into an agreement.... Slaves were property because they were purchased when they got off the boat.....

Now I have no idea as to why the children born in the US of slaves off the boat were not freed...

Lets also not forget there were plenty of free black folks in the north that didn't come from a slavery background - they were regular immigrants that paid their ticket on the boat..

Also the notion that slaves were treated poorly is absolute bullshit. I'm not saying some didn't slapped around but the majority were treated respectfully.... Many were just simple servants.... Some plantation owners could be quite brutal but most slaves worked on small farms..... Lets also not forget slaves were expensive - its not like every family could afford one (or want one)....

Truth is slavery has been extremely exaggerated in context...

It's really a sad reflection on our society that you would still feel that way

There is a huge difference between someone selling their services and a complete stranger selling your services.

Not only were slaves treated poorly, but blacks as a class were treated poorly for the next 100 years. 3000 lynchings is not respectful treatment

Blacks were treated somewhat civilly as long as they knew their place. They were lower class creatures who were treated as such. Beatings, rapes, bran dings, and the selling of your children were commonplace.

First off it is not "our" society it was THEIR society......

Not to mention everyone on this planet is a descended from a slave... What makes American slavery any worse than other slavery that has occurred throughout history???
If anything the US practiced the most civil slavery in history....

Slaves weren't a dime a dozen - they were luxuries..... People don't beat the shit out of and rape their luxury assets.....

I'm getting quite sick of progressives portraying slaves as human punching bags and baby factories...

Generational slavery as opposed to Situational slavery.

I thought you said you read up on this.....#1. You don't know the major differences between slavery and indentured servitude, and #2. You don't know the major difference between slavery practiced in the New World, especially in the Southern U.S. compared to historical slavery elsewhere.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nick, you are making yourself out a fool.

One, your wrong about how indentured servitude worked. It was contract chattel, fixed for a specified number of years of labor, which included the passage fee plus clothing plus food plus shelter. At the end of the contract, the servants earned their "passage dues" and their freedom.

Of course not all slaves were mistreated and beaten, but many were brutalized and some murdered and women had no recourse under law for rape by white men. These are facts.

 

[Google]

Monument to Nathan Bedford Forrest stirs dispute - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.

Someone needs to tell that carpetbagging son of a bitch to go back up north. Oh and they should also give him a few sources showing what Sherman did on his march to the sea in my beloved south..man there ain't nothing worse than a southerner who hates the south and her heritage.

Nathan Bedford Forrest, the found of the Ku Klux Klan and cold blooded murder should not be honored.

I am Southern born and raised, and find it sickening that people like yourself not only embrace but celebrate the darkest and most unAmerican portions of southern history. The fact that you use the term carpetbagger shows that you have a stunning lack of intelligence.

Forrest considered blacks to be subhuman, on par with cattle, and committed the most horrendous acts of disgusting murder. You believe he deserves a monument? Why not giving a monument to the KKK's bombing of 16th Street Baptist Church you ignorant piece of shit.

 

[Google]

"The slaughter was awful. Words cannot describe the scene. The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased."

Who the hell would want to honor this man?

Carpetbaggers is what Southern Democrats called Republicans after the Civil War. Teabaggers is what modern Democrats call Republicans today. For as much as things have changed, some things have remained the same...

 

[rightwinger]

First off it is not "our" society it was THEIR society......

Not to mention everyone on this planet is a descended from a slave... What makes American slavery any worse than other slavery that has occurred throughout history???

If anything the US practiced the most civil slavery in history....

Slaves weren't a dime a dozen - they were luxuries..... People don't beat the shit out of and rape their luxury assets.....

I'm getting quite sick of progressives portraying slaves as human punching bags and baby factories...

Nick....I'm begging you.

Stop

Just leave the thread and pretend it doesn't exist. Your posts embarrass not only you, but everyone in our society. I realize there are still people like you out there......but you are better off not advertising the fact

Yeah I only own 20+ books that deal with or address this topic.....

You can go and believe the dog shit they shove down your throat... You know - US slavery was the largest atrocity in modern history and you should feel white guilt over something that happened 150+ years ago.....

Go read a fucking book....

The idea that all slaves were beaten and raped and generally treated with disrespect is total propaganda...... If everyone hated black folks and slaves there would have never been a successful "underground railroad."

Nick.....

Those books are wasted on you. You should stick to porn

 

[Dissent]

Monument to Nathan Bedford Forrest stirs dispute - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.

Someone needs to tell that carpetbagging son of a bitch to go back up north. Oh and they should also give him a few sources showing what Sherman did on his march to the sea in my beloved south..man there ain't nothing worse than a southerner who hates the south and her heritage.

Nathan Bedford Forrest, the found of the Ku Klux Klan and cold blooded murder should not be honored.

I am Southern born and raised, and find it sickening that people like yourself not only embrace but celebrate the darkest and most unAmerican portions of southern history. The fact that you use the term carpetbagger shows that you have a stunning lack of intelligence.

Forrest considered blacks to be subhuman, on par with cattle, and committed the most horrendous acts of disgusting murder. You believe he deserves a monument? Why not giving a monument to the KKK's bombing of 16th Street Baptist Church you ignorant piece of shit.

"The slaughter was awful. Words cannot describe the scene. The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased."

Who the hell would want to honor this man?

Carpetbaggers is what Southern Democrats called Republicans after the Civil War. Teabaggers is what modern Democrats call Republicans today. For as much as things have changed, some things have remained the same...

Nothing worse than a scalawag. Your opinion means zilch to true southerners.Move north with the rest of the scum.

 

[The Gadfly]

Slaves were human beings that the South illegally traded as property. When offered the choice of belonging to the greatest country on earth or own other human beings......They chose slavery

It is a scar on the south to this day

I actually agree with the last sentence; though I'd point out it might have been less so, had the "peculiar institution" been allowed to die a natural death through gradual compensated emancipation and mechanized agriculture. The first was never allowed to happen, and the second came two decades too late. Educated Southerners at the time understood that chattel slavery was becoming a political, social and economic liability. Gen. Lee had freed his slaves years before the war; Jefferson Davis and his brother were beginning to educate their slaves, to prepare them for the responsibility of being free citizens. The problem was that so much of the South's capital was tied up in human chattel. This was not an insoluble problem for America as a whole, but with the North having little to gain for itself, the political will necessary was lacking. The 1860 election victory by what was at the time a purely sectional party was the last straw, from the Southern point of view; they saw little hope of compromise with the Radical Republicans of New England (and were probably correct in that assessment).

We will never know, alas, what might have been, had Lincoln taken Horace Greeley's advice, and let the South go. It seems likely that slavery would have died out gradually in the second half of the nineteenth century. Jim Crow, in the virulent form we knew it, would have been something far milder, had it even existed at all. Whether the two separate nations would have eventually reunited is another question; though it is not improbable that they would have at least been on friendly terms, and both sides, spared the loss of so many of their best and ablest young men on the battlefield, might have been stronger and wiser for it. The loss of life was the equivalent of ten million today. No wonder there was no end of mythmaking, to attempt to justify that kind of carnage.

I'd like to agree with you...but I can't

A graceful withdrawal from a slave economy was not an option. The south was offered and they refused. They would only abandon their peculiar institution of slavery by the point of a gun. Slaves as property was not an economic decision, it was pure racism at it's worst
After the civil war, the south was again given a chance to abandon their peculiar institution. After 100 years they still clung to their institutional racism. Once again, they would only abandon their institutional racism by force
Claiming it was pure economics was bullshit. The south officially declared blacks as subhuman and refused to even eat or sit next to them because they were officially declared dirty. The worst crime a black in the south could commit was to act as if he were as good as a white man

First, our ancestors NEVER received a good-faith offer of compensated emancipation of their slave property (and yes, slaves were still property, legally, in 1861). Jim Crow was the direct and somewhat understandable result of Radical Reconstruction. Had you Yankees been stripped of your right to vote (show me the constitutional authority for that completely unlawful act, BTW), had illiterate slaves not only placed in governance over you, controlled and handled by your enemies, and instructed by those handlers to steal from you, confiscate your property, deprive you of any semblance of due process, rape your women, humiliate you daily, and terrorize oro even murder you if you so much as spoke out gainst it, would you not hate both those former slaves, and the society which put them in that position. The carpetbagging Yankees, with few exceptions, were no idealists, mind you; they were the vilest, most vengeful scum of the Northern cities, thieves, criminals and murderers, dedicated only to fortune seeking and the establishment of permanent political hegemony over the conquered South. Ten years of terror, all under the protection of the troops of your erstwhile enemy, and you wouldn't hate them? In a pig's eye, you wouldn't! When the South finally threw out the reconstruction governments (all corrupt, and none of which could survive a day without the protection of Yankee troops, Southerners of the time had one thought; the same you would have had:This will NEVER happen again! It was an extreme reaction to an extreme provocation. The carpetbaggers and scalawags ran to the safety of the North, and the former slaves were left to take the full and justified wrath of the South. That part of it was a shame, as those most deserving of hanging or tar and feathering got clean away, but it is human nature in such a situation to substitute the target you can get your hands on for the ones you can't. The carpetbaggers were of course more than happy to see the former slaves they had seen primarily as useful fools face the hornets' nest that had been stirred up; they had their loot, and the freedmen, whom they had little real concern for, would just have to deal with the consequences.

As for the Yankee concern for civil rights, I note more than a little hypocrisy there as well; I recall Blacks receiving more hate in Chicago than in South Carolina; and when forced busing, which Yankees thought was a fine remedy for the South, came to that liberal bastion that is Boston, who did I see, throwing rocks at little Black kids getting on buses, huh? Hint: they WERE NOT Southerners! It seems most of you were less than enthusiastic about taking the same medicine you thought good for the South. In fact, there are plenty of towns, and plenty of people in the North and Midwest, where the local White population has never to this day even known any Black people, much less had even ONE living among them; more lily-white than any place in the Jim Crow South; those same Yankees know ALL about race relations, though-just ask them! The truth is, that if decent Southerners had not, of their own free will, come around to accepting their Black neighbors, you'd STILL be trying to "make" us comply. YOU didn't (and couldn't) make the klan socially unacceptable down here; decent Southerners could and did. YOU didn't, (and couldn't) make White juries convict in civil rights cases down here; we Southerners did. Believe me when I tell you that local suasion accomplished more for the cause of Black civil rights down here, than all the "force" you could bring to bear ever could or did. The Civil Rights Movement eventually succeeded here, because it won over the hearts and minds of a majority of Southern Whites, and helped them put away the results of decades of fear, misunderstanding, and lies perpetuated by politicians who had pandered to their worst instincts. I know, because it was primarily my generation of Southern Whites who worked with them to accomplish that. What's ironic, is that race relations on the whole are better in most place in the South, than elsewhere (where there is a significant Black population) We can't avoid each other down here, we have to get to know each other and work together, and interact with each other on a daily basis, in a way many of you up North do not. If you've ever read any of my posts in the Race forum, you know what my views on that are (and they are NOT what most of you stereotypically ascribe to Southerners).

 

[bodecea]

I actually agree with the last sentence; though I'd point out it might have been less so, had the "peculiar institution" been allowed to die a natural death through gradual compensated emancipation and mechanized agriculture. The first was never allowed to happen, and the second came two decades too late. Educated Southerners at the time understood that chattel slavery was becoming a political, social and economic liability. Gen. Lee had freed his slaves years before the war; Jefferson Davis and his brother were beginning to educate their slaves, to prepare them for the responsibility of being free citizens. The problem was that so much of the South's capital was tied up in human chattel. This was not an insoluble problem for America as a whole, but with the North having little to gain for itself, the political will necessary was lacking. The 1860 election victory by what was at the time a purely sectional party was the last straw, from the Southern point of view; they saw little hope of compromise with the Radical Republicans of New England (and were probably correct in that assessment).

We will never know, alas, what might have been, had Lincoln taken Horace Greeley's advice, and let the South go. It seems likely that slavery would have died out gradually in the second half of the nineteenth century. Jim Crow, in the virulent form we knew it, would have been something far milder, had it even existed at all. Whether the two separate nations would have eventually reunited is another question; though it is not improbable that they would have at least been on friendly terms, and both sides, spared the loss of so many of their best and ablest young men on the battlefield, might have been stronger and wiser for it. The loss of life was the equivalent of ten million today. No wonder there was no end of mythmaking, to attempt to justify that kind of carnage.

I'd like to agree with you...but I can't

A graceful withdrawal from a slave economy was not an option. The south was offered and they refused. They would only abandon their peculiar institution of slavery by the point of a gun. Slaves as property was not an economic decision, it was pure racism at it's worst
After the civil war, the south was again given a chance to abandon their peculiar institution. After 100 years they still clung to their institutional racism. Once again, they would only abandon their institutional racism by force
Claiming it was pure economics was bullshit. The south officially declared blacks as subhuman and refused to even eat or sit next to them because they were officially declared dirty. The worst crime a black in the south could commit was to act as if he were as good as a white man

First, our ancestors NEVER received a good-faith offer of compensated emancipation of their slave property (and yes, slaves were still property, legally, in 1861). Jim Crow was the direct and somewhat understandable result of Radical Reconstruction. Had you Yankees been stripped of your right to vote (show me the constitutional authority for that completely unlawful act, BTW), had illiterate slaves not only placed in governance over you, controlled and handled by your enemies, and instructed by those handlers to steal from you, confiscate your property, deprive you of any semblance of due process, rape your women, humiliate you daily, and terrorize oro even murder you if you so much as spoke out gainst it, would you not hate both those former slaves, and the society which put them in that position. The carpetbagging Yankees, with few exceptions, were no idealists, mind you; they were the vilest, most vengeful scum of the Northern cities, thieves, criminals and murderers, dedicated only to fortune seeking and the establishment of permanent political hegemony over the conquered South. Ten years of terror, all under the protection of the troops of your erstwhile enemy, and you wouldn't hate them? In a pig's eye, you wouldn't! When the South finally threw out the reconstruction governments (all corrupt, and none of which could survive a day without the protection of Yankee troops, Southerners of the time had one thought; the same you would have had:This will NEVER happen again! It was an extreme reaction to an extreme provocation. The carpetbaggers and scalawags ran to the safety of the North, and the former slaves were left to take the full and justified wrath of the South. That part of it was a shame, as those most deserving of hanging or tar and feathering got clean away, but it is human nature in such a situation to substitute the target you can get your hands on for the ones you can't. The carpetbaggers were of course more than happy to see the former slaves they had seen primarily as useful fools face the hornets' nest that had been stirred up; they had their loot, and the freedmen, whom they had little real concern for, would just have to deal with the consequences.

As for the Yankee concern for civil rights, I note more than a little hypocrisy there as well; I recall Blacks receiving more hate in Chicago than in South Carolina; and when forced busing, which Yankees thought was a fine remedy for the South, came to that liberal bastion that is Boston, who did I see, throwing rocks at little Black kids getting on buses, huh? Hint: they WERE NOT Southerners! It seems most of you were less than enthusiastic about taking the same medicine you thought good for the South. In fact, there are plenty of towns, and plenty of people in the North and Midwest, where the local White population has never to this day even known any Black people, much less had even ONE living among them; more lily-white than any place in the Jim Crow South; those same Yankees know ALL about race relations, though-just ask them! The truth is, that if decent Southerners had not, of their own free will, come around to accepting their Black neighbors, you'd STILL be trying to "make" us comply. YOU didn't (and couldn't) make the klan socially unacceptable down here; decent Southerners could and did. YOU didn't, (and couldn't) make White juries convict in civil rights cases down here; we Southerners did. Believe me when I tell you that local suasion accomplished more for the cause of Black civil rights down here, than all the "force" you could bring to bear ever could or did. The Civil Rights Movement eventually succeeded here, because it won over the hearts and minds of a majority of Southern Whites, and helped them put away the results of decades of fear, misunderstanding, and lies perpetuated by politicians who had pandered to their worst instincts. I know, because it was primarily my generation of Southern Whites who worked with them to accomplish that. What's ironic, is that race relations on the whole are better in most place in the South, than elsewhere (where there is a significant Black population) We can't avoid each other down here, we have to get to know each other and work together, and interact with each other on a daily basis, in a way many of you up North do not. If you've ever read any of my posts in the Race forum, you know what my views on that are (and they are NOT what most of you stereotypically ascribe to Southerners).

Bummer. Shouldn't have started the war, should they?

 

[JakeStarkey]

True southerners support America. True scum support a revisionist history that makes admirable the traitors and peddlers of treason of the Southern War of Aggression and Treason.

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah I only own 20+ books that deal with or address this topic.....

You can go and believe the dog shit they shove down your throat... You know - US slavery was the largest atrocity in modern history and you should feel white guilt over something that happened 150+ years ago.....

Go read a fucking book....

The idea that all slaves were beaten and raped and generally treated with disrespect is total propaganda...... If everyone hated black folks and slaves there would have never been a successful "underground railroad."

How sad you never read them.

You think your colossal display of ignorance is evidence that you're ever read a book?

 

[bripat9643]

Generational slavery as opposed to Situational slavery.

I thought you said you read up on this.....#1. You don't know the major differences between slavery and indentured servitude, and #2. You don't know the major difference between slavery practiced in the New World, especially in the Southern U.S. compared to historical slavery elsewhere.

The hysterical part is your belief that there is some fundamental moral difference, or if there is, that you know what it is.

What do you think is the major difference between slavery practiced in the New World and slavery practiced elsewhere?

Tell us, what makes Southern slavery so especially heinous?

 

[bripat9643]

Forrest considered blacks to be subhuman, on par with cattle, and committed the most horrendous acts of disgusting murder. You believe he deserves a monument? Why not giving a monument to the KKK's bombing of 16th Street Baptist Church you ignorant piece of shit.

Solders in the Union army also considered blacks to be subhuman, on par with cattle. They also raped and murdered blacks.

I always laugh when carpetbaggers like you get on your high horse and feign moral superiority. It's utterly hysterical.

 

[rightwinger]

Generational slavery as opposed to Situational slavery.

I thought you said you read up on this.....#1. You don't know the major differences between slavery and indentured servitude, and #2. You don't know the major difference between slavery practiced in the New World, especially in the Southern U.S. compared to historical slavery elsewhere.

The hysterical part is your belief that there is some fundamental moral difference, or if there is, that you know what it is.

What do you think is the major difference between slavery practiced in the New World and slavery practiced elsewhere?

Tell us, what makes Southern slavery so especially heinous?

If you want to start a thread about slavery in other parts of the world you are free to do so

This thread is about the Souths embracing of the despicable practice

 

[rightwinger]

Forrest considered blacks to be subhuman, on par with cattle, and committed the most horrendous acts of disgusting murder. You believe he deserves a monument? Why not giving a monument to the KKK's bombing of 16th Street Baptist Church you ignorant piece of shit.

Solders in the Union army also considered blacks to be subhuman, on par with cattle. They also raped and murdered blacks.

I always laugh when carpetbaggers like you get on your high horse and feign of moral superiority. It's utterly hysterical.

Interesting .......do you have a link?

I would like to read more

 

[bripat9643]

"The slaughter was awful. Words cannot describe the scene. The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased."

Who the hell would want to honor this man?

Where did this supposed quote come from, some Yankee carpetbagger?

Carpetbaggers is what Southern Democrats called Republicans after the Civil War. Teabaggers is what modern Democrats call Republicans today. For as much as things have changed, some things have remained the same...

Yep, nothing has changed. The moral crusaders always turn out to be the biggest hypocrites and scumbags in the universe.

 

[The Gadfly]

"The slaughter was awful. Words cannot describe the scene. The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased."

Who the hell would want to honor this man?

Carpetbaggers is what Southern Democrats called Republicans after the Civil War. Teabaggers is what modern Democrats call Republicans today. For as much as things have changed, some things have remained the same...

Other primary historical sources give a different account of what actually happened at Ft. Pillow. As for Forrest's role in the Klan, a congressional committee under the leadership of W.T. Sherman (yes, Old Burnin' Billy, himself) investigated that, at length, and found (among other things) that Forrest had played no active role in the founding of the Klan, was not even present at the meeting where he was elected "head" of it, and in fact seemed only to have used his influence to disband it when it got out of hand. This after Sherman had proclaimed that "We are here to investigate Forrest, try Forrest, and hang Forrest!" There wasn't enough evidence even for them to do any of that, and plenty of evidence to suggest that Forrest was innocent of any wrongdoing with regard to the Klan. The only fact is that at that original meeting at Pulaski TN, the group, with Forrest NOT present, and without informing him of the "honor", did in fact elect Forrest Grand Dragon, without so much as asking his permission.. The myth that N.B. Forrest "led the Klan" or "founded the Klan" is just that, a myth.

By the way, if you really are Southern, you are a Scalawag. Get out of the South, you simpering cur, and go lick the boots and grovel at the table of your Carpetbagger masters for their scraps; no self-respecting Southern man or lady wants anything to do with you. Now tuck that tail over your neutered sack, and git, you whining puppy!

 

[JakeStarkey]

No self respecting son or daughter of the South accepts The Gadfly as one of their own.

Merely a bug stain on the floor.

 

[bripat9643]

Bummer. Shouldn't have started the war, should they?

Lincoln started the war, nitwit.

 

[bripat9643]

If you want to start a thread about slavery in other parts of the world you are free to do so

This thread is about the Souths embracing of the despicable practice

Who put you in charge of policing this thread, eh nimrod?