Nathan Bedford Forrest statue causing controversy

[squeeze berry]

Andersonville was awful, period, and no one can offer any defense for it.

Sure they can, Fakey: Confederate troops received only slightly more food than the prisoners at Andersonville. They were on the verge of starvation, so it's hardly surprising that Confederate prisoners of war would be starving. The sainted Lincoln did not want to exchange prisoners. So he consigned them to starve to death, and POW camps in the North were just as bad even though the North had plenty of food. Sherman wasn't burning crops and slaughtering livestock in Pennsylvania.

The war of attrition that was adopted by the Union was that of no prisoner exchanges toward the end of the war.

Interestingly I have a confederate ancestor who was captured twice and parolled twice.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Umm. . . actually, no. He needs to do it because it his assertion that he can't prove.

Umm . . actually, also it has to do with your assertions, the great majority of which you can't prove.

Poor deflection, kiddo.

Wrong, turd. I have provided evidence to back-up most of what I have posted. On the other hand, you have provided nothing, nada, zip.

You're the laughing stock of the forum, Fakey.

No, you just make up new definitions for words like "cede", loser.

 

[squeeze berry]

soldiers on both sides served honorably

 

[Dick Tuck]

Andersonville was awful, period, and no one can offer any defense for it.

Sure they can, Fakey: Confederate troops received only slightly more food than the prisoners at Andersonville. They were on the verge of starvation, so it's hardly surprising that Confederate prisoners of war would be starving. The sainted Lincoln did not want to exchange prisoners. So he consigned them to starve to death, and POW camps in the North were just as bad even though the North had plenty of food. Sherman wasn't burning crops and slaughtering livestock in Pennsylvania.

You lying little fuck. Sherman didn't burn the Atlanta stores and begin his march to the sea until November 1864, that's almost five months after Captain Wirz asked for the prisoner exchange. By then, most of the Andersonville prisoners, except for the sickest were already moved to other POW camps.

As for what Lee did in Pennsylvania, he basically rounded up every black civilian he could find, and sent them South into bondage. Musta been a Southern thang.

 

[Dick Tuck]

You are acting like a far lefty with that lie, bripat. You can look above for my proofs. Yours aren't there.

Time for you to scream, pull down your pants and shit on the floor.

You must be a liberal with how you act here. Just the laughing stock of the entire forum.

Wrong, turd. I have provided evidence to back-up most of what I have posted. On the other hand, you have provided nothing, nada, zip. You're the laughing stock of the forum, Fakey.

Fuck you too asswipe.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Dick Tuck is acting like a lefty, screaming and shitting on the floor.

 

[The Gadfly]

The Gadfly has to do more than cite the "OR". We need author, date, description of document, volume, and location of the document.

This would be similar to telling someone to go the country records in Los Angeles to determine when English became the official language of document recording in the LA County Clerk's records.

Sheesh.

I already did that once, with regard to the report of Lt. Daniel Van Horn, Sixth U.S. Heavy Artillery (Colored). Bodecea asked for the source and I gave it to her; Official Records, Series I, Vol. 32, Part 1, pp.562-570. Read it and weep. I can't help it, if you don't read what I post (including the citations), and simply respond with name-calling. However, You can rest assured I will be back with additional citations from the OR and elsewhere. I DON"T BLUFF, Jakey, and when I make an assertion, you can bet your Scalywag arse I can find primary source material to back it up. You and Dicksuck are going to get your superficial, pseudo-intellectual arses handed to you on this one , if you keep it up. In the meantime, Let's see you cite some more primary sources. How many USCT prisoners were actually handed over to state authorities and executed? How many of their White officers? Please cite the source.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Liberals never learned as youngsters that the world doesn't give a fuck about how you feel.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Gadfly gives one cite as a hasty generalization and that is supposed to evidence of a massive problem. No, it doesn't. Not even a little bit. Not ever.

Only a far lefty like The Gadfly would think so.

In fact, this source is the Exception That Proves The Rule that no such persecutions, except as minor aberrations, ever happened during the war.

I knew the lefty would walk into the snare.

The Gadfly has to do more than cite the "OR". We need author, date, description of document, volume, and location of the document.

This would be similar to telling someone to go the country records in Los Angeles to determine when English became the official language of document recording in the LA County Clerk's records.

Sheesh.

I already did that once, with regard to the report of Lt. Daniel Van Horn, Sixth U.S. Heavy Artillery (Colored). Bodecea asked for the source and I gave it to her; Official Records, Series I, Vol. 32, Part 1, pp.562-570. Read it and weep. I can't help it, if you don't read what I post (including the citations), and simply respond with name-calling. However, You can rest assured I will be back with additional citations from the OR and elsewhere. I DON"T BLUFF, Jakey, and when I make an assertion, you can bet your Scalywag arse I can find primary source material to back it up. You and Dicksuck are going to get your superficial, pseudo-intellectual arses handed to you on this one , if you keep it up. In the meantime, Let's see you cite some more primary sources. How many USCT prisoners were actually handed over to state authorities and executed? How many of their White officers? Please cite the source.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OODA, you act like a liberal here.

 

[JoeB131]

So was Lincoln.

Yep, so was everyone at the time.

Racism is an evolutionary survival mechanism.

So is Cannibalism, but most sane people know you shouldn't do that sort of thing.

 

[Unkotare]

constantly calling others cowards over the internet isn't exactly manly

Really doesn't answer my question.

then you are hopelessly obtuse

Maybe you could try to explain yourself a little better.

 

[9thIDdoc]

ROFL! You're a real war mongering piece of shit. You know that?

I'll bet you're one of those hypocrites who constantly cries about Iraqis killed during the war.

Texas could have used a healthy dose of what Sherman did to Georgia. As for Iraq, we had less reason for invading than the North had for invading the South, but once we were there....meh....War is Hell. Haven't you heard?

I love Sherman's quote about Texas. "If I owned hell and Texas, I'd rent out Texas and live in hell."

He's smarter than I thought. His sorry as wouldn't last 5 min. in Texas.

 

[The Gadfly]

The Gadfly gives one cite as a hasty generalization and that is supposed to evidence of a massive problem. No, it doesn't. Not even a little bit. Not ever.

Only a far lefty like The Gadfly would think so.

In fact, this source is the Exception That Proves The Rule that no such persecutions, except as minor aberrations, ever happened during the war.

I knew the lefty would walk into the snare.

The Gadfly has to do more than cite the "OR". We need author, date, description of document, volume, and location of the document.

This would be similar to telling someone to go the country records in Los Angeles to determine when English became the official language of document recording in the LA County Clerk's records.

Sheesh.

I already did that once, with regard to the report of Lt. Daniel Van Horn, Sixth U.S. Heavy Artillery (Colored). Bodecea asked for the source and I gave it to her; Official Records, Series I, Vol. 32, Part 1, pp.562-570. Read it and weep. I can't help it, if you don't read what I post (including the citations), and simply respond with name-calling. However, You can rest assured I will be back with additional citations from the OR and elsewhere. I DON"T BLUFF, Jakey, and when I make an assertion, you can bet your Scalywag arse I can find primary source material to back it up. You and Dicksuck are going to get your superficial, pseudo-intellectual arses handed to you on this one , if you keep it up. In the meantime, Let's see you cite some more primary sources. How many USCT prisoners were actually handed over to state authorities and executed? How many of their White officers? Please cite the source.

The source quoted is on the supposed "Ft. Pillow Massacre", idiot! Just for your and Discksuck's further personal edification in this matter, after the Congressional Investigation into the Ft. Pillow incident, there was a U.S. Army investigation by Col Brayburn. His findings were passed to Gen. Sherman, who noted in his Memoirs:

"No doubt Forrest's men acted like a set of barbarians, shooting down the helpless negro garrison after the fort was in their possession; but I am told that Forrest personally disclaims any active participation in the assault, and that he stopped the firing as soon as he could. I also take it for granted that Forrest did not lead the assault in person, and consequently that he was to the rear, out of sight if not of hearing at the time, and I was told by hundreds of our men, who were at various times prisoners in Forrest's possession, that be was usually very kind to them."

Incidentally, one USCT soldier who swore he saw Forrest during the assault on the fort, and heard him give the order to "kill them all", described him to the Congressional Committee as a "little bit of a man"-a rather odd description of a man who was very conspicuous, on or off a horse: Forrest was 6' 2'' tall, a very large man for a time when the average soldier was about 5'5", and a typical cavalryman even smaller.

P.S. Everyone, please note the bolded quote from Jake above. I do believe that is the first time anyone on this board (or anywhere else!) has EVER referred to me as a "Lefty"! I am led to suppose that this discussion has so scrambled Jake's tired little brain (unaccustomed as it is to any real exercise) that he can no longer tell Left from Right; either that, or he has gotten into consuming questionable substances again, and has become completely delusional as a result of too much "better living through chemistry"!

 

[JakeStarkey]

But The Gadfly was trying to pass it off as evidence of northerners killing black confederates at the gates of northern prisons. So now you admit that you were lying in using false evidence. You have no evidence of such actions of a significance in numbers, do you?

Now to the other matter Forrest of course claimed no responsibility or personal participation in the Ft Pillow event; he was not a fool. Nonetheless, under the law of command responsibility, even if that were true, he still lost control of his command and was still responsible for the murders. He should have been arrested, tried, and executed.

The Gadfly acts like a lefty (at least his kind of lefty) who supposedly lies and acts terribly. Yet he does the same and cries then shits of the floor in rage when called on it.

 

[The Gadfly]

But The Gadfly was trying to pass it off as evidence of northerners killing black confederates at the gates of northern prisons. So now you admit that you were lying in using false evidence. You have no evidence of such actions of a significance in numbers, do you?

Now to the other matter Forrest of course claimed no responsibility or personal participation in the Ft Pillow event; he was not a fool. Nonetheless, under the law of command responsibility, even if that were true, he still lost control of his command and was still responsible for the murders. He should have been arrested, tried, and executed.

The Gadfly acts like a lefty (at least his kind of lefty) who supposedly lies and acts terribly. Yet he does the same and cries then shits of the floor in rage when called on it.

No, that (and the other atrocities that occurred a Yankee POW camps , especially Camp Douglas and Elmira) are well documented.I suggest you see George Levy's book "To Die in Chicago: Confederate Prisoners a Camp Douglas 1862-1865" (Pelican Press, 1994) Levy's research includes some hospital records long presumed lost or missing (a LOT of records from Camp Douglas are inexplicably absent from the OR, (probably because many were simply thrown out, if kept at all in the first place). The official death toll among prisoners at Camp Douglas was around 4400; information uncovered here suggests that the real total was at least 6000, and perhaps more, out of approximately 18,000, a death rate HIGHER than Andersonville. Union doctors who saw the place in 1863 called it "an extermination camp". Elmira prison had a death rate of about 25%, mostly from exposure disease and abuse, but even "Hellmira" was not so noteworthy for gratuitous and deliberate starvation, torture and murder as Camp Douglas. Descriptions from a Priest and other Northern civilians who visited the place and witnessed the atrocities have survived, and you can find many recounted in Levy's book. Hitler has nothing on the Yankees, except in the sheer volume of butchery; the guards at Camp Douglas would have been right at home with the worst of the Death Camp SS, and would have been considered unusually sadistic, even by the standards of that lot. The Yankee military's documentation at Camp Douglas was sloppy, but enough survived, and enough civilians were allowed inside the place, to give an account (apart from that of surviving Confederate prisoners) of what happened there. Read the book, Levy's research, and the newly discovered documentation, fill in a lot of the gaps in the Union accounts of the place.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, you were talking about the systematic murder of black confederates in uniform at the gates of northern prisons. All the other stuff you print means nothing and can be ignored: irrelevant.

Now, Forrest was responsible for mass murder.

And, no, great numbers of murders of black confederates in union prisons did not occur.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"No, you were talking about the systematic murder of black confederates in uniform at the gates of northern prisons."

That is documented but it was probably not large numbers because they were more usually mudered by union troops rather than taken prisoner in the first place.


"All the other stuff you print means nothing and can be ignored: irrelevant."
"Now, Forrest was responsible for mass murder."

Bullshit. The posible murder of less (probably far less) than 200 is mass murder but the murder of 6000 or more isn't? Why? Are you that much of a racist? You might also note that that is also a lesser number that the number of Black civilians murdered in New York due to the conscription riots and being bombarded by the Union Navy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

9th ID makes assumptions, the truth of which we can't know unless he provides the document numbers.

9th ID's banal defense of mass murder is mere deflection. The point was that as commanding officer, the General was responsible for loss of command control and thus liable for trial and execution.

9th ID is guilty of false analogy of comparing Ft Pillow (a military action between rival armies) and a race riot in NYC that took three infantry regiments to control.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Time to unsubscribe from this thread. It seems that no matter how many documented facts are deposited in front of the faces of the Northern apologists, they continue to parrot the same big, bald-faced lies that their propagandists indoctrinated them with as children.

It's a crying shame that they've never grown past that point.

Fucking dupes!

(I hate to use that word, considering Frenchie's abuse of it, but there is not a better one to describe the willful ignorance of those who REFUSE to learn.)