Never trust anti gunners....they lie because they have an irrational fear of guns....

[2aguy]

No, i guy, i'm concerned because I listen to guys like you talk about all the people you want to kill because you've let rich people wreck your country, and you live in terror of gangbangers taking what little you have left. Because you talk about Second Amendment solutions when you can't win elections outside of places where they fly the Confederate Flag like that isn't something to be totally embarrassed about.

Gangs, who do 80% of the murders out of the 8-9,000 each year are confined to small, multi block areas in democrat controlled cities....that leave 1,800 non gang related murder.....in a country of 310 million people....

Joe...your problem is that you are afraid of people....you can't control them...especially criminals...so your fevered mind reaches out to control the only thing you think you can....the guns people own.....it is your irrational fear of guns that drives your silliness.....

You will deny the truth, that 1.6 million people defend themselves on average each year and only have to kill 200 monsters...which shows great restraint and control...not the killing madness you attribute to gun owners....which shows your mental health issue.....you deny reality...that people can and will be victims of rape, robbery and murder and stalkers, and that guns are more often than not the only thing that keeps them safe, facts....you deny 19 studies showing you are wrong and cling to one study already shown to be the least reliable...the NCVS survey that only counts gun deaths, requires the interviewee to sit down with a government agent and admit he used a gun, and doesn't count times guns are used and no one is killed or shots fired.....

You need help Joe......learn to love people....and trust the good ones....

 

[2aguy]

How does anything you wrote in that post have any bearing on this......Japan has no guns.....and they still kill themselves at twice our rate....guns are not the issue....it is the mental health of the person committing suicide.....what don't you understand....guns aren't jumping up and shooting them.....they decide to die....they will switch how they do it....like they did in Australia after the gun buy back...and as they do in Japan....

Japan also has a long tradition that killing yourself is far better than facing dishonor or disgrace.

Italy bans guns and their suicide rate is half ours. So does Britain.

Guns make it easier to kill yourself.

Do I think banning guns will eliminate suicide? Nope. Will it reduce it? Yup.

Good enough for me. Because, honestly, fuck gun owners. They are all a bunch of assholes and frankly, I'm sick of their whining. And watching us cart dead kids out of schools and theaters.

Russia also has a higher suicide rate as do a lot of countries and they all ban guns.......Joe....you aren't making sense....

 

[2aguy]

and fuck you too.., with a red hot iron fence post !!

yupp ! every day there are thousands of dead kids hauled away from schools....., but only in that mush filled head of yours, is it possible you could be any more stupid and emotional ?

i believe so, just give it that good old liber standby...,

Columbine
Virginia Tech
Fort Hood
Sandy Hook
Aurora
Tuscon

Seriously, you guys can't control yourselves, so someone is going to.

Joe....do you know what all of those shootiings have in common......waiting....waiting....background checks did not stop one of them....

Columbine...bought guns illegally...since they were teenagers and couldn't own or carry them

Virginia Tech....bought gun legally

Fort Hood, both shootings at Fort hood.........bought guns legally

Sandy Hook....guns Bought legally, legal owner murdered and guns stolen.....

Aurora...guns bought legally....went to theater that had a no guns allowed policy, by passing several theaters that allowed patrons to carry personal weapons inside.....

Tuscon....gun bought legally after undergoing FBI background check....

 

[2aguy]

Here is an email debate on "More gun, Less Crime" as John Lott points out the silliness of the anti gunners...again....

Responding to the Washington Post s More guns less crime Not exactly - Crime Prevention Research Center

Dear Letters Editor:
Extensive research demonstrates that more guns mean less crime. But Emily Badger’s article cherry picks just two discussions (“More guns, less crime? Not exactly,” 7/29). If she had looked at the literature, she would have discovered that about two-thirds of peer-reviewed research by economists and criminologists find that right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime. And no one finds higher murder, rape or robbery from concealed handgun laws.

One study she cites by John Donohue and his two research assistants claim that permitted concealed handguns increase aggravated assaults. But besides the fact that he has already apologized for that paper accusing John Lott of circulating bad data, there are three problems with his published empirical work.

First, significant data errors biased their results towards what they wanted to find. Among them, data for one county was accidentally repeated 73 times and some state laws changes were misidentified by up to a decade.

Second, the result was simply an artifact of fitting a straight line to data that followed a curved pattern.

Third, if Donohue is going to claim that permit holders are committing aggravated assaults, he needs to identify some cases. But a review of state permit revocation data shows permit holders lose their permits for any type of firearms related violation at hundredths or thousandths of one percentage point and virtually none involve violent crime.

Finally, in Badger’s reference to the 2005 Nation Research Council report, she fails to note that the panel couldn’t agree on any finding whatsoever, not just concealed carry. However, as James Q. Wilson pointed out, the Nation Research Council results consistently showed that right-to-carry laws reduced murder rates.

 

[skookerasbil]

and fuck you too.., with a red hot iron fence post !!

yupp ! every day there are thousands of dead kids hauled away from schools....., but only in that mush filled head of yours, is it possible you could be any more stupid and emotional ?

i believe so, just give it that good old liber standby...,

Columbine
Virginia Tech
Fort Hood
Sandy Hook
Aurora
Tuscon

Seriously, you guys can't control yourselves, so someone is going to.

Joe....do you know what all of those shootiings have in common......waiting....waiting....background checks did not stop one of them....

Columbine...bought guns illegally...since they were teenagers and couldn't own or carry them

Virginia Tech....bought gun legally

Fort Hood, both shootings at Fort hood.........bought guns legally

Sandy Hook....guns Bought legally, legal owner murdered and guns stolen.....

Aurora...guns bought legally....went to theater that had a no guns allowed policy, by passing several theaters that allowed patrons to carry personal weapons inside.....

Tuscon....gun bought legally after undergoing FBI background check....

Bill...........forget it. The man is depressed resulting in a serious OCD condition ( look at his post count total)...........results in rumination of the thinking. You could spend 100 years trying to reason to no avail........trust me, Im in the field and work with OCD folks every day of my life. When you have serotonin issues, your thinking is only corrected with pharmacological aids which can do wonderous things to change a persons life.........not happening for this guy, thus, the object must be to present factual information to the audience here and let them come to the conclusion over time that he is a mental case. If you watch his posts, they are eerily similar in terms of information presented but it is the high frequency of redundancy that is the biggest red flag.


Depression Symptoms After OCD Diagnosis


Obsessional Thinking

 

[2aguy]

and fuck you too.., with a red hot iron fence post !!

yupp ! every day there are thousands of dead kids hauled away from schools....., but only in that mush filled head of yours, is it possible you could be any more stupid and emotional ?

i believe so, just give it that good old liber standby...,

Columbine
Virginia Tech
Fort Hood
Sandy Hook
Aurora
Tuscon

Seriously, you guys can't control yourselves, so someone is going to.

Joe....do you know what all of those shootiings have in common......waiting....waiting....background checks did not stop one of them....

Columbine...bought guns illegally...since they were teenagers and couldn't own or carry them

Virginia Tech....bought gun legally

Fort Hood, both shootings at Fort hood.........bought guns legally

Sandy Hook....guns Bought legally, legal owner murdered and guns stolen.....

Aurora...guns bought legally....went to theater that had a no guns allowed policy, by passing several theaters that allowed patrons to carry personal weapons inside.....

Tuscon....gun bought legally after undergoing FBI background check....

Bill...........forget it. The man is depressed resulting in a serious OCD condition ( look at his post count total)...........results in rumination of the thinking. You could spend 100 years trying to reason to no avail........trust me, Im in the field and work with OCD folks every day of my life. When you have serotonin issues, your thinking is only corrected with pharmacological aids which can do wonderous things to change a persons life.........not happening for this guy, thus, the object must be to present factual information to the audience here and let them come to the conclusion over time that he is a mental case. If you watch his posts, they are eerily similar in terms of information presented but it is the high frequency of redundancy that is the biggest red flag.


Depression Symptoms After OCD Diagnosis

yeah...I posted this before...I don't post for Joe, or Brain or the other irrational anti gunners...I post for the casual readers who might not pay attention to gun issues....they need to see the other side...and I post my sources to help other pro 2nd types to strengthen their ability to respond to irrational gun arguments....

And....I find lots of material from other gun people who take on these stupid arguments....

The anti gunners and the liberals never, ever give up....so we can't either....and they have the media wing of the democrat party, the entertainment wing of the democra party and the education wing of the democrat party and the government bureacracy of the democrat party helping them fight the fight.....so we have to keep doing what we can....

 

[DriftingSand]

There are FAR more deaths by Medical Malpractice than by guns. That's a BIGGER cause for concern.

Well, no, not really. I'm sure you think that by throwing enough shit against the wall, you think you can get something to stick.

We don't need an armed populace. It does us no good.

Are you saying that you're simply going to ignore the facts? You must be a typical Liberal.

 

[2aguy]

There are FAR more deaths by Medical Malpractice than by guns. That's a BIGGER cause for concern.

Well, no, not really. I'm sure you think that by throwing enough shit against the wall, you think you can get something to stick.

We don't need an armed populace. It does us no good.

Are you saying that you're simply going to ignore the facts? You must be a typical Liberal.

It's not that he is ignoring the facts....I don't think his brain can process them....I have a feeling that libs like Joe have the part of the brain that deals with facts, the truth, reality, rational thought and a functioning moral compass....that is underdeveloped.......that is why they believe what they believe...

They are regular people in every way...but that small way that makes them Like Joe....and the others....

 

[DriftingSand]

There are FAR more deaths by Medical Malpractice than by guns. That's a BIGGER cause for concern.

Well, no, not really. I'm sure you think that by throwing enough shit against the wall, you think you can get something to stick.

We don't need an armed populace. It does us no good.

Are you saying that you're simply going to ignore the facts? You must be a typical Liberal.

It's not that he is ignoring the facts....I don't think his brain can process them....I have a feeling that libs like Joe have the part of the brain that deals with facts, the truth, reality, rational thought and a functioning moral compass....that is underdeveloped.......that is why they believe what they believe...

They are regular people in every way...but that small way that makes them Like Joe....and the others....

It's the side of the brain affected by way too much reefer.

 

[skookerasbil]

There are FAR more deaths by Medical Malpractice than by guns. That's a BIGGER cause for concern.

Well, no, not really. I'm sure you think that by throwing enough shit against the wall, you think you can get something to stick.

We don't need an armed populace. It does us no good.

Are you saying that you're simply going to ignore the facts? You must be a typical Liberal.

It's not that he is ignoring the facts....I don't think his brain can process them....I have a feeling that libs like Joe have the part of the brain that deals with facts, the truth, reality, rational thought and a functioning moral compass....that is underdeveloped.......that is why they believe what they believe...

They are regular people in every way...but that small way that makes them Like Joe....and the others....

Bill......while your post sounds flip, its 100% accurate. It is a thinking thing with these people. When you look stark in the face of facts and still persist in a completely different line of thought, the connect the dots abilities are not there......these people of good intentions. This "tragic" view of the world is indeed a brain fuck up at its core.........linked to depression. OCD falls under the umbrella of depression......its a serotonin issue in the brain. When it is lacking, it results in ruminating thoughts that are very real to these people............they cannot escape the box. Its a brain physiology thing...........I work every day with psychiatrists for the last 30 years. Fascinating stuff..........remediated only via pharmacological aid.

 

[2aguy]

I am serious in my opinion....I don't know exactly how it works but arguing with people like Joe...and the others....shows there is something not meshing in regards to facts, evidence and reality....

I mean...show them that background checks will not stop one murder or mass shooting or keep guns out of the hands of criminals....and their response...."We need background checks to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people"....I mean....that is what they say....

 

[WinterBorn]

I don't post my arguments to try and convince JoeyB. He is a scared little nobody who hates the world and blames others for his shortcomings.

I post for the others who read the threads and might be able to decipher the actual facts. Those people will see the logic of my arguments, see that JoeyB has been humiliated, and will walk away armed with more knowledge on the topic.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And you didn't stop it.

So much for unarmed "good guys" saving the day huh

Considering I didn't hear about it until days later, no.

And it only happened feet from you?

You are an oblivious idiot aren't you.

 

[reason10]

NO ! it is NOT end of discussion, "I don't like guns. They scare the crap out of me.", there is no need to fear a gun, it is an inanimate object if never touched by human hands it will NEVER harm anyone, i suggest you get one of your "gun-nut" friends to educate you, you may, like many other gun haters may just find out they can have a fun experience to shoot 6 holes in a paper target at 15 yards in a group no bigger than your fist with a good quality handgun.

take my suggestion and give it a try. OK ?

Here's the deal: I don't have gun nut friends. I have gun owning friends. They are not nuts. They own guns. I don't look at a Second Amendment supporter as any kind of a nut. Secondly, I used to be a gun owner. Used to load my own ammo. Maybe it's because my livelihood depends on my hearing, but obviously the sound of a gun going off near me is a threat. Yes I used to wear the ear plugs. And I'd fire away at a target with a Hawes western model 44 mag and a Star SA 45. Couldn't hit anything with them. I was the worst shot in the world. It wasn't comfortable. Later on, I started doing some studies of what those hollow point slugs do to human flesh. Then when we got our first house, I imagined having to blow a burglar away in the living room. Tried to imagine my having to explain it to my daughter. That's when I developed a distaste for guns.
They aren't "fun." They are necessary tools for those who want to kill something. And there's nothing inherently wrong with killing something that needs killing. They are very efficient tools for killing. I suddenly realized (as the culture is going to shit) that I can't just pull out a gun and threaten some punk who's robbing me or who somehow broke into my house. If the gun came out, the only recourse would be a torso kill shot. I can't just fire a round into the air and imagine that the perp will run away. Likely, the perp will pull his gun and return fire. The perp will have had earlier combat experience and I have none.
I've been lucky to live in an area where the greatest danger is bobcats.
Cops scare me. And that's a good thing. They should scare people. What scares me is the fact that the cops wear bullet proof vests, which means they are expecting to be fired at and they have been trained in returning fire. I know they won't fire unless they have to defend their lives, but the fact that they are wearing those vests mean that they are on high alert. You can't put your hands in your pocket in the presence of a cop. Stuff like that.
I'm not around gun culture. I don't want anything to do with it, except to vote for politicians who will PRESERVE THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

 

[westwall]

That's because PEOPLE ARE more restrained than police are! That's the whole point silly person. It is you and yours who claim that guns only exist to kill people. When you are presented with evidence that summarily calls your bullshit for what it is...bullshit. You hide. Law enforcement officers are poorly trained compared to the majority of gun owners. That's a fact. Gun owners don't enjoy the immunity from prosecution that most officers do if they shoot someone. So even a person who WOULD be inclined to do so, won't unless they absolutely have to.

Your arguments are specious and ridiculous, supported by nothing but fantasy.

we have 32,000 gun deaths a year, including 11,500 homicides. Restraint is not what you gun owners are showing. Not to mention 800 accidental deaths.

compared to Japan where they had all of 11 homicides by gun. Or Germany where (Despite having some legal gun ownership) they only had 258 gun homicides.

Funny how you ignore the fact that 80% of those homicides are gang related. Black on Black being the majority, and Hispanic on Hispanic the other. Not one of those countries you mentioned has the gang problems we do. Not one. Germany though, IS starting feel the effects of Muslim gang activity.

You are still trying to compare apples to Imperial Star Destroyers.

 

[westwall]

No, it doesn't. You're simply wrong and too entrenched to admit that you know nothing of what you speak. In your silly world there would be a hell of a lot more police shootings because they have their guns out far too often. Police use their guns very poorly...and yet the number of people they shoot is still comparatively low.

Your logic fails yet again.

Actually, Police are trained, and they know if they shoot someone, and it wasn't a "good shoot", they are likely to face prison, lose their jobs, and face a world of hurt.

The thing about DGU's. They just don't happen that often. That's why you don't have that many "justifiable homicides" with guns.

Police are incredibly POORLY trained. I know, I have several friends in the field who try and elevate the level of training but they are stymied at every turn by the brass. Right now if a cop wants to attend an advanced tactics, or shooting class (something I have done every year for over 30 years) they have to pay out of pocket. I have yet to see an agency pay for the training.

You're simply wrong yet again.

 

[westwall]

Another factor I didn't know....the NCVS meets people in person...for the first interviewl....yeah...that encourages honesty...

when youa re going to a gun nutter site like gunfact.org, you are grasping.

Here's the thing.

NCVS- Conducted every year, includes 90,000 people, gets the same results every year.

Kleck- Conducted one time, included only 5000 people, results have never been replicated in 20 years.

You're the gun nut. Every factoid you have presented has been summarily slapped down. We have presented loads of supporting evidence on our side that you simply ignore as all good trolls do.

 

[BlackSand]

I am serious in my opinion....I don't know exactly how it works but arguing with people like Joe...and the others....shows there is something not meshing in regards to facts, evidence and reality....

I mean...show them that background checks will not stop one murder or mass shooting or keep guns out of the hands of criminals....and their response...."We need background checks to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people"....I mean....that is what they say....

They just don't understand we are not advocating arming criminals ... We are simply sick and tired of playing the compromise game every couple of years until they take all of our rights away.

I don't need a background check for my grandfather to give me a .30 caliber rifle he owned since coming home from WW-II. Don't need to register the firearm with anyone. Don't need more than a hunting license to put it to good use.

And don't give a shit what the anti-gun nuts think about it.

.

 

[JoeB131]

Was that the terminally ill friend who you demand should have toughed it out so others wouldn't be inconvenienced?

Yes, someone getting hit by the bullet that flew across the parking lot on one of his "Dry runs" would have definitely been an inconvenience.

 

[JoeB131]

You're the gun nut. Every factoid you have presented has been summarily slapped down. We have presented loads of supporting evidence on our side that you simply ignore as all good trolls do.

The NRA talking points aren't "supporting evidence". The word you are struggling for is "Propaganda".