Never trust anti gunners....they lie because they have an irrational fear of guns....

[JoeB131]

It is easy to fix? lmao Again, obviously not. There are politicians who have been trying to ban handguns and semi-auto rifles since the 1960s. I can go buy either one right now.

And your plan to imprison gun sellers after they follow the rules and get federal gov't approval is never going to happen. Even other anti-gun posters think you are trolling when you post about that.

Yeah, well, gee, guess what, all it takes are a few court cases to not go your way.

You have a form, we have pictures of dead kids. We win.

 

[westwall]

You're the gun nut. Every factoid you have presented has been summarily slapped down. We have presented loads of supporting evidence on our side that you simply ignore as all good trolls do.

The NRA talking points aren't "supporting evidence". The word you are struggling for is "Propaganda".

I haven't used a single NRA source. Not one. I have used peer reviewed papers by well respected criminologists and US DOJ reports. You just can't help but lie can you.

Pathetic little troll.

 

[WinterBorn]

It is easy to fix? lmao Again, obviously not. There are politicians who have been trying to ban handguns and semi-auto rifles since the 1960s. I can go buy either one right now.

And your plan to imprison gun sellers after they follow the rules and get federal gov't approval is never going to happen. Even other anti-gun posters think you are trolling when you post about that.

Yeah, well, gee, guess what, all it takes are a few court cases to not go your way.

You have a form, we have pictures of dead kids. We win.

You have crackpot ideas and bogus claims.

And its funny, but there have been dead kids before. You still lose. Policy decisions are not made based solely on emotion.

 

[2aguy]

Here are some more cities that put their gang murder rate at 80%....just like Chicago....and Chicago is hiding some of their numbers to keep their murder stats down....just like Britain....

Putting Gun Death Statistics in Perspective

In New Orleans, between 35-55% of homicides are classified as gang-related. In Chicago, anestimated 80% of homicides are gang-related. And in Baltimore, the policecommissioner states that 80% of homicides are drug-related. (But again, most of this depends on methods of keeping records, and, often, personal opinions.)

When comparing cities plagued by gun violence and looking at "the most dangerous" cities in the United States, the mostcommonly cited cause of violence is gangs. It is no coincidence that the murder rate and gun violence rate spikes in large cities with large gun populations. Solve the problem of gang violence, and a huge chunk of the gun homicide and violence problem is solved. And what national gun control measures would slow the gang violence problem, when local gun control laws have failed in cities like Chicago? If politicians were really worried about gun deaths, wouldn't they be specifically targeting where a majority of the problems exist?

The United States is one of the most gun-friendly countries in the world. Roughly half of American households have a gun. There are almost as many guns in America as people. It's common sense to know that, yes, the United States will probably have more gun murders than a country with almost no guns and no households with guns. I'd would also assume that Florida will have more swimming pool drowning deaths than, say, Michigan. But unlike swimming pools, guns can also be used for self-defense reasons. The reality remains that in a country of 315 million people (and almost as many guns) very few of the guns are ever used in any crime. If arguments that the mere existence of guns made people more violent, more likely to murder, and more likely to commit crime, than the gun problem in America would be much worse.

and more....

America Doesn 8217 t Have a Gun Problem It Has a Gang Problem FrontPage Magazine

Chicago’s murder numbers have hit that magic 500. Baltimore’s murder toll has passed 200. In Philly, it’s up to 324, the highest since 2007. In Detroit, it’s approaching 400, another record. In New Orleans, it’s almost at 200.New York City is down to 414 from 508. In Los Angeles, it’s over 500. In St. Louis it’s 113 and 130 in Oakland. It’s 121 in Memphis and 76 in Birmingham.

Washington, D.C., home of the boys and girls who can solve it all, is nearing its own big 100.

Those 12 cities alone account for nearly 3,200 dead and nearly a quarter of all murders in the United States. And we haven’t even visited sunny Atlanta or chilly Cleveland.

These cities are the heartland of America’s real gun culture. It isn’t the bitter gun-and-bible clingers in McCain and Romney territory who are racking up a more horrifying annual kill rate than Al Qaeda; it’s Obama’s own voting base.

So.....with just 12 cities...they account for 3,200 murders ....and fun murders are only 8-9,000 a year on average.....

And New Orleans.....

But Chicago isn’t even all that unique. Or the worst case scenario. That would be New Orleans which at an incredible 72.8 murder rate is ten times higher than the national average. If New Orleans were a country, it would have the 2nd highest murder rate in the world, beating out El Salvador.

 

[2aguy]

From the article above....

A breakdown of the Chicago killing fields shows that 83% of those murdered in Chicago last year had criminal records. In Philly, it’s 75%. In Milwaukee it’s 77% percent. In New Orleans, it’s 64%. In Baltimore, it’s 91%. Many were felons who had served time. And as many as 80% of the homicides were gang related.

America’s murder rate isn’t the work of the suburban and rural homeowners who shop for guns at sporting goods stores and at gun shows, and whom news shows profile after every shooting, but by the gangs embedded in the urban areas controlled by the Democratic machine. The gangs who drive up America’s murder rate look nothing like the occasional mentally ill suburban white kid who goes off his medication and decides to shoot up a school. Lanza, like most serial killers, is a media aberration, not the norm.

 

[2aguy]

And the list of the 25 most violent cities.....look at the descriptions....gangs are the source....

Most Dangerous Cities In America - Business Insider

25. Milwaukee, Wis.

Wikimedia/Towpilot
15 murders per 100,000 people

38 forcible rapes per 100,000 people

505 robberies per 100,000 people

Milwaukee's police chief recently recently said 85% of the city's shootings involve "people with extensive criminal records shooting other people with extensive criminal records."

Data provided by the FBI's preliminary 2012 unified crime report. The cities' murder (including nonnegligent manslaughter), rape, and robbery rates were compared against 2011 national averages, with the percent deviations averaged to determine overall ranking for violent crime.



Notice.....the mayors of Milwaukee......Democrat or outright socialist since 1940....

List of mayors of Milwaukee Wisconsin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

-----------------------------

24. Hartford, Conn.

Wikimedia/Elipongo
18 murders per 100,000 people

22 forcible rapes per 100,000 people

511 robberies per 100,000 people

The streets of Hartford are "infested" with gangs, according to a 2009 internal police memo. Gangs continue to be a major part of the city, primarily in the realm of drug trafficking.

Data provided by the FBI's preliminary 2012 unified crime report. The cities' murder (including nonnegligent manslaughter), rape, and robbery rates were compared against 2011 national averages, with the percent deviations averaged to determine overall ranking for violent crime.


and the list of Mayors of Harford Connectictu......since 1948.....democrat....

Welcome to HartfordHistory.net

 

[2aguy]

Little Rock, Arkansas.....they even made an HBO documentary about the level of gang violence.....

Concerns surrounding Little Rock s count of nearly 30 homicides in 2014

While gangs and drug crimes were a major influence in the past, newer reported data suggests something else driving higher homicide numbers in 2014.

and the thing is.....they try to hide the gang violence today.....take a look at how they hide it....

"Many of those homicides we've had aren't directly related to gang violence or narcotics activity, although that may be a small factor in some of those instances," explained Lt. Sidney Allen with the Little Rock Police Department.

"Now we're having a lot of pop up shootings having to deal with Facebook, fights, drugs," added Jackson.

So who exactly is doing the killing from facebook, fights and drugs.....? I guess it is little Jimmy and Sarah who decide to kill their friends over a bad facebook post......

And I guess drugs in Little Rock...unlike every other city is handled by independent dealers....vs....drug gangs enforcing their territory....

 

[2aguy]

You have inner city drugs driving the violence....gangs control the drug trade and enforce their business with pixie dust and rainbows......er.....maybe not pixie dust and rainbows........perhaps....guns......and the anti gunners dispute the 80% number.....they think regular folks are offing each other over fender benders and bad calls by umpires at the local little league game......

 

[2aguy]

An early Christmas present for you Joe....I know you love these number so much.....

again....the bottom column of the chart never wants to post so I give the name of the people or group doing the study, the year of the study and number of times they found guns were used to save lives and stop violent crime each year....

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512
DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043
Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

And this from the clinton justice department...

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")

From Obama's CDC...they spent 10 million dollars in 2013 for this study...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.
7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”
-------

-------------

"Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year."
As shown in the previous footnote, this study did not use a nationally representative population. To correct for this, Just Facts used the following equation:

8-9,000 gun murders a year vs. 1.6 million times, on average that a non law enforcement, non military, law abiding citizen stops a violent criminal attack or saves a life....

8-9,000 vs. 1.6 million....

Guns save far more lives than they take....even using the lowest numbers from anti gun biased studies.....

 

[Skull Pilot]

And you didn't stop it.

So much for unarmed "good guys" saving the day huh

Considering I didn't hear about it until days later, no.

And it only happened feet from you?

You are an oblivious idiot aren't you.

No, it happened feet from where I am typing this right now. It didn't happen wh en I was home, but even if it had, I wouldn't have heard anything, these walls are pretty thick and I'm told it was a small caliber gun.

So it didn't effect you at all.

Why do you want to tell people they have to live even if they don't want to?

 

[JoeB131]

I haven't used a single NRA source. Not one. I have used peer reviewed papers by well respected criminologists and US DOJ reports. You just can't help but lie can you.

Pathetic little troll.

Kleck isn't respected or a US DOJ report.

The DOJ says that it's only 65,000 DGU's.

 

[JoeB131]

You have inner city drugs driving the violence....gangs control the drug trade and enforce their business with pixie dust and rainbows......er.....maybe not pixie dust and rainbows........perhaps....guns......and the anti gunners dispute the 80% number.....they think regular folks are offing each other over fender benders and bad calls by umpires at the local little league game......

Ooops, he's sputtering.

Okay, just admit you can't actually support the 80% number.

 

[JoeB131]

An early Christmas present for you Joe....I know you love these number so much.....

again....the bottom column of the chart never wants to post so I give the name of the people or group doing the study, the year of the study and number of times they found guns were used to save lives and stop violent crime each year....

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

Okay, Gun-Cite is a nutter source.

And when you are citing "Gallup", which has been fined for providing inaccurate data to the government (this is why they had it out for Obama in 2012, trying to claim Romney had a 7 point lead) you don't have much to go on.

THe NCVS says 65,000.

Compared to 32,000 deaths, 78,000 injuries and 300,000 gun crimes, the proliferation of guns is just not worth it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Never trust anti gunners....they lie because they have an irrational fear of guns...."

The only thing irrational is the OP's unwarranted, delusional fear of 'gun grabbers' that don't exist.

 

[JoeB131]

You have crackpot ideas and bogus claims.

And its funny, but there have been dead kids before. You still lose. Policy decisions are not made based solely on emotion.

Guy, people are getting tired of this shit. They really are. They are tired of watching kids get wheeled out of schools and theaters because some freak was able to get a military grade weapon. Eventually, the NRA won't be able to buy you out of the next one.

Only a matter of time....

 

[strollingbones]

I'll try to find the photo....I also posted a couple of other photos of gun owners calmly holding criminals for the police...you didn't see those photos did you....it happens all the time...1.6 million minus some injuries to the perps when the are shot and live, and about 200 deaths when the violent monsters get killed during the rape, robbery or murder attempt....

Actually, it happens rarely.

Certainly not enough to excuse the 32,000 deaths and 78,000 injuries guns cause every year.

Every other counry has figured this out. Civilians don't need guns.

it is not rare when it has happened to you...i have used a shotgun when i was in danger and so was my son who was 2 ish at the time...i will assert my right to defend myself and i will continue to protect this right ...

o and joe i am a liberal

 

[WinterBorn]

I haven't used a single NRA source. Not one. I have used peer reviewed papers by well respected criminologists and US DOJ reports. You just can't help but lie can you.

Pathetic little troll.

Kleck isn't respected or a US DOJ report.

The DOJ says that it's only 65,000 DGU's.

A month or so ago you were insisting that there were only 210 DGUs per year. At least you are learning something here.

 

[JoeB131]

it is not rare when it has happened to you...i have used a shotgun when i was in danger and so was my son who was 2 ish at the time...i will assert my right to defend myself and i will continue to protect this right ...

o and joe i am a liberal

again, I know of no one who has defended themselves with a gun, I know a few people who've had to bury family members who were killed by that gun they bought for protection.

 

[JoeB131]

A month or so ago you were insisting that there were only 210 DGUs per year. At least you are learning something here.

A month ago your reading comprehension sucked.

It clearly still does.

Don't you have a Nazi to go cry over?

 

[WinterBorn]

You have crackpot ideas and bogus claims.

And its funny, but there have been dead kids before. You still lose. Policy decisions are not made based solely on emotion.

Guy, people are getting tired of this shit. They really are. They are tired of watching kids get wheeled out of schools and theaters because some freak was able to get a military grade weapon. Eventually, the NRA won't be able to buy you out of the next one.

Only a matter of time....

Really? So you think these tiny percentage of the gun murders are what matter? You accuse gun owners of being racist, and yet you focus your anti-gun tirades, almost exclusively, on the tiny portion of the gun crimes that are lily white. You focus on the crazed gunman in a mass shooting like it was the bulk of the issue. When actually, it accounts for 1% or less of the gun murders per year.

Yes, people are getting tired of this. They are getting tired of ghouls using these tragic events to further their political agenda. They are tired of the lies you and your ilk spout.

Charles Whitman murdered 16 and wounded 32 people almost 50 years ago. The school shooting at Columbine was 15 years ago. If you claim pictures of bodies will spur the American people to action, where is the action?

The truth is that you are impotent and irrelevant. Likely that enrages you to no end.