New and Improved Abortion Poll

[Paulie]

Trees dropping their fruit is a natural function. A miscarriage is a natural function, and natures way of dropping a bad "fruit". An abortion is not the same thing, and really doesn't compare, unless it's for specific reasons that endanger the health of the mother and/or child.

A tree drops its fruit to continue it's existence. The same way a dandelion's seeds are whisked away by the wind to land somewhere else and take root. The same way a male marijuana plant opens it's pollen pod, releases pollen, and the pollen lands on the female plant's pistils, creating seeds that will eventually fall and take root.

Someone coming up to an apple tree, and ripping it's fruit off the tree, is not natural. And I liken that to someone aborting a fetus.

The tree doesn't make a decision to abort its fruit, it just happens. Just like the woman doesn't DECIDE that she's going to have a miscarriage. However, she DECIDES she's going to abort her baby.

 

[Ravi]

I'm saying that in most cases, abortion crosses my own personal morality line. But since I don't believe in legislating morality, I'm pro-choice. I don't know how I can possibly state it more simply or clearly.

That's fine and all, but I don't know why you can't answer a simple question.

 

[Ravi]

Yet according to your own statements, if the metaphorical tree dropped it's fruit because it knew the fruit would be retarded, that would be immoral.

Aborting a child because it's retarded = immoral

Aborting a healthy child because caring for it would be a drag = Off limits as far as moral judgements are concerned.

Do you seriously not see the hypocrisy?

No. Because one focuses on something totally different. Aborting because of what the potential human will become is just not the same thing.

And I seriously doubt abortions happen because "caring for it would be a drag."

 

[Ravi]

Someone coming up to an apple tree, and ripping it's fruit off the tree, is not natural.

That's just silly, Pauli. Plants that evolved to produce fruit mean for you (the mammal) to come along and pick and eat the tempting, juicy treat so you'll spread its seed...doh! Plants that don't produce edible fruit spread their seeds differently, like the dandelion you described above.

Do you not believe in the concept of free will, btw?

 

[Paulie]

That's just silly, Pauli. Plants that evolved to produce fruit mean for you (the mammal) to come along and pick and eat the tempting, juicy treat so you'll spread its seed...doh! Plants that don't produce edible fruit spread their seeds differently, like the dandelion you described above.

Do you not believe in the concept of free will, btw?

Ravi, the fruit drops from the tree, and the animal takes the fruit. I don't believe for a second that fruit bearing plants intended for humans, or anything else for that matter, to come along and pick them. Some animals may have an ability to reach the fruit, and the others take what falls naturally. The plant knows no difference. It would still maintain its existence without an animal or person coming along to physically pick it clean of its fruit.

Humans maintain an existence by having wonderful, passionate, sweaty, gushy, naughty, nasty sex, and then giving birth to the offspring that is conceived. If everyone aborted children they didn't want, eventually we would become extinct.

Imagine if apple trees decided they didn't want any of their apples next season and aborted them before they matured.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Is there a moral difference between the prevention of a pregnancy by use of the morning after pill versus preventing a pregnancy by use of daily hormone pills?

The baby after all is just as 'not here' using either drug...

-Joe

Except the morning after pill is used before one even knows if they are pregnant. Not a good choice but clearly not the same thing as abortion.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No. Because one focuses on something totally different. Aborting because of what the potential human will become is just not the same thing.

And I seriously doubt abortions happen because "caring for it would be a drag."

And this is why you are a brain dead methane head filled moron. It DOES happen all the time.

 

[Ravi]

Ravi, the fruit drops from the tree, and the animal takes the fruit. I don't believe for a second that fruit bearing plants intended for humans, or anything else for that matter, to come along and pick them. Some animals may have an ability to reach the fruit, and the others take what falls naturally. The plant knows no difference. It would still maintain its existence without an animal or person coming along to physically pick it clean of its fruit.

Humans maintain an existence by having wonderful, passionate, sweaty, gushy, naughty, nasty sex, and then giving birth to the offspring that is conceived. If everyone aborted children they didn't want, eventually we would become extinct.

Imagine if apple trees decided they didn't want any of their apples next season and aborted them before they matured.

hmmm...I gave this a shot. I rounded up the squirrels and the raccoons and told them it was immoral to pick the fruit off of my trees. The squirrels seem to be considering the question seriously, at least they are chattering about something right now. The raccoons weren't very receptive, though, they rolled their eyes and cracked a few blond jokes.

Take a botany course, Pauli, you really don't have a clue as to what you are talking about regarding plants.

I don't know if you've noticed, but everyone doesn't abort children that they don't want.

 

[manifold]

That's fine and all, but I don't know why you can't answer a simple question.

I will as soon as you do. How is a surgical procedure a biological function?

 

[manifold]

No. Because one focuses on something totally different. Aborting because of what the potential human will become is just not the same thing.

So what if the person aborted the retarded baby so she could better care for her non-retarded children, present or future?

What is exactly the same is making a moral judgement. You seem to be ok doing it yourself, but hyper-critical of others for doing likewise. That's hypocritical no matter how you spin it.

And I seriously doubt abortions happen because "caring for it would be a drag."

Then I think you're naive.

 

[Ravi]

I will as soon as you do. How is a surgical procedure a biological function?

Already answered this question.

So what if the person aborted the retarded baby so she could better care for her non-retarded children, present or future?

That isn't the same thing, is it? Though you are being pretty convincing that aborting because someone is retarded is not immoral.

What is exactly the same is making a moral judgement. You seem to be ok doing it yourself, but hyper-critical of others for doing likewise. That's hypocritical no matter how you spin it.

Where have I ever been hypercritical about moral judgments?

Then I think you're naive.

Perhaps. But not about this. Feel free to show me how this is why the majority of women abort...

I've made an honest attempt to answer your questions and you've refused to answer any of mine.

So, unless you do, I'm done with this thread.

 

[manifold]

Where have I ever been hypercritical about moral judgments?

I can no more make a moral judgment against a tree for doing what is best for her and the future of her offspring than I can make against a woman and the future of her offspring. And anyone else that does so, IMHO, is nothing more than a control freak that has no clue about biology.

Oh, and I don't see how morality plays into natural biological functions. But I still maintain that abortion is neither natural, nor is it a biological function. Regardless, consider your one pointless, unanswered question answered.

 

[Ravi]

heh, I guess you got that one about the moral judgment.

But I still disagree with you and you haven't really answered any of my questions.

 

[manifold]

heh, I guess you got that one about the moral judgment.

But I still disagree with you and you haven't really answered any of my questions.

What questions? The only one I remember is the silly one about biological functions.

 

[Ravi]

Nevermind, sometimes I think you talk just to hear yourself speak.

 

[manifold]

Nevermind, sometimes I think you talk just to hear yourself speak.

I accept your act of concession.

 

[Ravi]

I accept your act of concession.

In your dreams.

 

[manifold]

In your dreams.

Nope. In my reality...and yours.

But I understand. Whenever I'm shown to be hypocritical, it stings for a little while too.

 

[Ravi]

Nope. In my reality...and yours.

But I understand. Whenever I'm shown to be hypocritical, it stings for a little while too.

mmm? I've no problem being told I've been hypocritical...especially if it turns out to be true.

You just avoided answering any of the questions I asked you on this thread, basically. Saying because isn't really an answer.

 

[manifold]

mmm? I've no problem being told I've been hypocritical...especially if it turns out to be true.

You just avoided answering any of the questions I asked you on this thread, basically. Saying because isn't really an answer.

What questions??