Zone1 New girl in town

[sealybobo]

I still prefer to err if I do on the side of common sense and the actual history and personal experience instead of leftist doctrine, dogma, propaganda that ignores how decent values and common sense are being destroyed so their agenda can control us all.

If you think unions are the only reason people succeed in this country I will just wish you a pleasant day.

No one said unions are the only reason people succeed in this country

But without unions, we'd have a small rich class, small merchant class and the masses would be the working poor. And chances are your family would not be rich or merchant class. That's what I'm saying. YOU don't appreciate unions.

Here's something you really need to read

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history: There is no such thing as a "free market." The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans...

www.thomhartmann.com

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I will respond to your first paragraph. Your comment exposes your ignorance. Your relatives only made what they made because of unions. Even if they weren't in unions. Unions brought all our wages up and without them, you've seen what has happened.

I'm sorry but your version of capitalism isn't even working for uneducated white blue collar workers

Opinion | Capitalism is failing the white working class. And the results are deadly.

The astronomical costs of health care are draining jobs, hope and opportunity from working-class Americans.

www.nbcnews.com

Unions NOW are exactly what they were created to fight, Big business with only the accumulation of wealth on their agenda.

 

[sealybobo]

I still prefer to err if I do on the side of common sense and the actual history and personal experience instead of leftist doctrine, dogma, propaganda that ignores how decent values and common sense are being destroyed so their agenda can control us all.

If you think unions are the only reason people succeed in this country I will just wish you a pleasant day.

1. There is no such thing as a "free market."
2. The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans are discovering).

When government sets the rules of the game of business in such a way that working people must receive a living wage, labor has the power to organize into unions just as capital can organize into corporations, and domestic industries are protected from overseas competition, a middle class will emerge. When government gives up these functions, the middle class vanishes and we return to the Dickens-era "normal" form of totally free market conservative economics where the rich get richer while the working poor are kept in a constant state of fear and anxiety so the cost of their labor will always be cheap.

Is he wrong?

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history: There is no such thing as a "free market." The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans...

www.thomhartmann.com

 

[Foxfyre]

Unions NOW are exactly what they were created to fight, Big business with only the accumulation of wealth on their agenda.

In many cases you are correct. We had a friend with a manufacturing business in Missouri. When his union threatened to strike if he did not meet their wage and benefits demand, he brought the union leaders in and showed him his books, what his profit margin was, how they were barely making a very modest profit that would be wiped out by the union's demands. The union struck anyway. At the time Missouri was not a right to work state.

My friend closed the business in Missouri and moved it to a right to work state. He so prospered in his new location that he was soon able to pay his new non union employees more than his union workers had been making in Missouri.

In Japan, unions are so successful because they work hand in hand with management to help make businesses successful so the workers can be paid more.

When a union does not consider the overall health of the business that pays the workers, their demands can be a bad thing.

I think I read somewhere that this year Missouri changed their laws and became a right to work state.

 

[sealybobo]

In many cases you are correct. We had a friend with a manufacturing business in Missouri. When his union threatened to strike if he did not meet their wage and benefits demand, he brought the union leaders in and showed him his books, what his profit margin was, how they were barely making a very modest profit that would be wiped out by the union's demands. The union struck anyway. At the time Missouri was not a right to work state.

My friend closed the business in Missouri and moved it to a right to work state. He so prospered in his new location that he was soon able to pay his new non union employees more than his union workers had been making in Missouri.

In Japan, unions are so successful because they work hand in hand with management to help make businesses successful so the workers can be paid more.

When a union does not consider the overall health of the business that pays the workers, their demands can be a bad thing.

I think I read somewhere that this year Missouri changed their laws and became a right to work state.

What a load of SHIT! Now we can either take your personal antidote, which is an all out lie most likely, or we can look at the facts. So even if this ONE union story is true, in general, your story is just not reality.

Typically, unionized workers earn about 10%-20% more than their nonunion peers,

How come private school teachers make less than public school teachers?

The big picture: College is still one of the best paths to accumulating wealth, this and other data show. But CAP's numbers point to an alternative for those who might not want to spend the time or money on a college education: union membership.

• Aside from higher pay, union members have more job security.
• Members are also likely to have defined benefit retirement plans, i.e. pensions, and access to better health care — so are less apt to go into debt when they're sick.

 

[sealybobo]

I still prefer to err if I do on the side of common sense and the actual history and personal experience instead of leftist doctrine, dogma, propaganda that ignores how decent values and common sense are being destroyed so their agenda can control us all.

If you think unions are the only reason people succeed in this country I will just wish you a pleasant day.

Union workers make 10-20% more than the non union relatives you were bragging about.

Of course we are talking about uneducated Americans not college educated ones like me.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Union workers make 10-20% more than the non union relatives you were bragging about.

Of course we are talking about uneducated Americans not college educated ones like me.

you can ignore the fact that big unions are not for Union members all you want but facts show otherwise, big unions are big business and only care about the money they can scam from their members and business.

 

[sealybobo]

you can ignore the fact that big unions are not for Union members all you want but facts show otherwise, big unions are big business and only care about the money they can scam from their members and business.

Hey, I know some unions aren't perfect, but what you are doing is being a shill for the corporations. They waged war on labor and the GOP/YOU went along. And we sent all those high paying blue collar jobs overseas. Today, you're telling those blue collar workers to vote for you? How much you going to pay them? Certainly not what we paid them.

And since you destroyed unions from 1978 to NOW, CEO pay has skyrocketed. Stock markets, etc. The only one who hasn't benefited from paying workers low shitty wages is consumers. Because these corporations are gouging us for as much as they can. It's not to pay their workers. It's to pay shareholders and the executives.

I always give this example. Not too long ago my VP brother was making $500K a year. I thought that was great money. FF a few years say 5-10 years and he just retired. I found out that he left making $1 million a year. Why did his pay double? Didn't they pass that on to customers? You never seem to worry about that. Whycome?

CEO and Executive pay went up 1322% and your pay in all that time only went up 18%. Something wrong with this picture Admiral.

Tell me, as an admiral, a gubment employee, do you get a pension Admiral?

 

[The Duke]

Konnichiwa! My name is Akari and I'm a 46 year old nurse living in Florida. Was born in Japan but moved to the United States when I was 18. I'm married and have 2 children. I'm into politics, movies, ballet, musicals, reading, music and much more. This is my first forum so not sure what to expect. As far as politics go I am independent and vote for the politician not the party. I think both Republicans and Democrats have good ideas and my personal preferences indulge in a little bit of each. Thank you for reading my introduction thread and hope to meet all of you and have friendly civilized debates.

Welcome. Don't give away any personal information to where people could harass you in real life here.
Get ready for mud wrasslin'!

 

[The Duke]

I only come here for the assholes. I'm not looking for people I agree with when I come here. LOL. But I do appreciate the agrees, winners, informatives and LOVES that I get from the smart people on this site.

So like, nobody, amirite?

 

[Delldude]

There can be civil discussions here if you are a civil person.

Let's you out.............

 

[sealybobo]

Let's you out.............

I'm a liberal and IM2 won't even talk to me. He talks to Republicans but not me. So clearly he just loves to yell at white people.

What he doesn't want to hear is that blacks have any fault or bare any responsibility of their communities.

But that's true about white people too. It's not just corrupt government's fault they are poor. It's their fault too. For a lot of the same reasons it's blacks fault they are in the situation they are in. But white Americans don't have to deal with the racism blacks have to deal with. So whites are MORE responsible for their economic condition because they vote for the party that fucks the middle class.

Opinion | Capitalism is failing the white working class. And the results are deadly.

The astronomical costs of health care are draining jobs, hope and opportunity from working-class Americans.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Guys this is an intro thread keep the garbage out of it.