Zone1 New poll shows Americans' confidence and belief in the Bible is at all-time low

[cnm]

Anyone can claim to be a Christian. Carter is.

So his treatment of Afghanistan was a Christian act?

 

[JoeB131]

I’m not going to argue details. You just turned clay into life for me.

Except the devil is in the details (pun intended). If God turned clay into life, that would mean that life ultimately has a purpose. If it's just random chemical reactions over billions of years, not so much.

No, they do not. That’s why they behead anyone not bowing to their god, especially followers of the God of Jacob.

Guy, Muslims, Christians and Jews worship the same God. Any further comments would probably violate zone 1 rules, so I'll refrain.

Name one thing not instructed to address. Or ten. And for each you owe me a serious thank you.

Well, the bible doesn't address poverty, it tells people to accept it because the rich will get theirs in the afterlife that never happens. If anything, the Bible endorses racism, as the Hebrews are instructed to murder anyone who gets in their way that's not them. The slave holders of the 19th century could point the verses in the Bible to support what they were doing, and we are still paying that price today.

Chinese did have it better prior to the Communist take over that proceeded to murder 77 million Chinese. Soviets murdered 61 million of their own people. They had it much better under the czar. And 1/3 of all Cambodians were murdered by their own government. All in the name of creating a Godless utopia.

First, the 77 Million number is utter garbage. Secondly, the Chinese WERE a lot worse off before the Communists took over.

This is what China looked like in the period between 1911 and 1937, and that was followed by Japan invading.



Most Chinese welcomed the CCP over the corrupt KMT and their warlord allies.

The claim that the Soviets murdered "61 million people" is laughable, at best. If Stalin killed that many people, why did the population of the Soviet Union INCREASE between 1919 and 1952. Even factoring in the 20 million people killed in WWII and the lands gained by the Ribbentrop Molotov Pact, the USSR's population went from 137MM in 1926 to 182MM in 1951.

Demographics of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In discussing Cambodia, you leave out the part where a million Cambodians died as a result of Nixon's secret bombing campaigns.

 

[JoeB131]

Great selection!

First, we have the Hebrew words to consider. The same words were often used to describe people with no moral compass. Instead of picturing little boys, picture those old enough to know better but are acting childish.

Second, Rabbis look at the scriptures before these verses. Elisha had just purified a local spring. Who would be against this? People who made a living hauling fresh water to their community. Basically, there was a cartel of young men with no moral compass furious with Elisha for cutting into their riches.

As I recall, the insult of calling someone bald at that time was the same as saying Elisha's God, Elisha's beliefs meant nothing and were no more valid than a bald head.

Were the bears literal or not? One rabbi noted the irony of a prophet not acting in the way a prophet should act--nor were two bears acting in a way two bears normally act. Could it be Elisha's depriving them of selling water (their livelihood) destroyed forty-two young men?

Whether forty-two were destroyed by bears or no other way to sustain themselves except by hauling water, it appears most Rabbis believe Elisha's curse was wrong and went too far. It is noted in later verses that Elisha was indeed punished for calling down such a curse.

Biblical apologetics are wonderful, are they not?

Okay, let's address the first issue, that the evil Boys were upset that Elisha purified a spring. Except the Spring was in Jericho, the Bear Attack was in Bethel. The distance between Bethal and Jericho is about 40 miles, which Elisha covered in about a day. Leaving that absurdity to the side, there's no way the people in Bethel would have cared that Elisha cleaned up another town's water supply.

Nobody is hauling water 40 miles.

Second is the issue of how young these children were. The KJV translations specifically says "Little Children", but the original Hebrew said ū-nə-‘ā-rîm, which can mean "Boy, Youth, or Lad" However, it is immediately followed by the adjective qə-ṭan-nîm meaning "Little". These were SMALL children, not youthful thugs the way the Bible says.

Next, we have to look at the actual insult, which is "Go up, you baldhead". (‘ă-lêh qê-rê-aḥ) Which some have interpreted to mean Elisha should go away like Elijah did when he was carried to heaven in a chariot of fire.

Suffice it to say, the rest is interpretation. The Hebrew text is pretty clear. Elisha called down a curse on the kids, two bears came out of the woods and mauled 42 of them. Full stop. Remember what I said earlier about Disneyfying the Bible, this is Full Technicolor Princess Disneyfying.

Also, There are no future verses where God reprimands Elisha for calling down a curse on the children. But think about that for a minute. God IMMEDIATELY sent down bears to slaughter children because Elisha said so. And the OT is full of this sort of thing, God being petty and small like this.

Now, yes, this is a very short story, only two verses... and you can interpret it any way you want, I guess.

Or you can take the pragmatic approach, that these people saw "God" as any force of nature or calamity they couldn't understand, other than an angry God who constantly needed to be appeased.

 

[surada]

And he believes everything the bible says.

Judging the hearts of other people is playing God and not uncommon among militant religious fanatics. Either that or he's just a racist. Obama has no divorces or scandals.. none of the people he hired have been indicted and he's a committed father and husband.

 

[cnm]

Obama has no divorces or scandals.. none of the people he hired have been indicted and he's a committed father and husband.

And he droned innocent people. Would you call that 'Christian'?

 

[surada]

And he droned innocent people. Would you call that 'Christian'?

You mean the guy who was training suicide bombers and making bombs? Americans and Saudi Arabia were very grateful.

 

[Coyote]

The Bible is a history book, no different than, say, a book describing the revolutionary war.
The old testament was written by Moses for the most part - later translated from Hebrew to Greek.
The new testament was written in Greek - by several people who lived during and after the time Jesus walked the earth.
Whether one chooses to believe this history didn't happen is, well, on them. But that fact doesn't change history.

Umh….it is a lot different than a history book given it makes a good many unverifiable claims. It has kernels of historical fact or probability interwoven with mythology (unless you are a believer in that particular faith).

 

[Coyote]

And he droned innocent people. Would you call that 'Christian'?

Have any leaders been fully “Christian”?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Except the devil is in the details (pun intended). If God turned clay into life, that would mean that life ultimately has a purpose. If it's just random chemical reactions over billions of years, not so much.



Guy, Muslims, Christians and Jews worship the same God. Any further comments would probably violate zone 1 rules, so I'll refrain.



Well, the bible doesn't address poverty, it tells people to accept it because the rich will get theirs in the afterlife that never happens. If anything, the Bible endorses racism, as the Hebrews are instructed to murder anyone who gets in their way that's not them. The slave holders of the 19th century could point the verses in the Bible to support what they were doing, and we are still paying that price today.



First, the 77 Million number is utter garbage. Secondly, the Chinese WERE a lot worse off before the Communists took over.

This is what China looked like in the period between 1911 and 1937, and that was followed by Japan invading.



Most Chinese welcomed the CCP over the corrupt KMT and their warlord allies.

The claim that the Soviets murdered "61 million people" is laughable, at best. If Stalin killed that many people, why did the population of the Soviet Union INCREASE between 1919 and 1952. Even factoring in the 20 million people killed in WWII and the lands gained by the Ribbentrop Molotov Pact, the USSR's population went from 137MM in 1926 to 182MM in 1951.

Demographics of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In discussing Cambodia, you leave out the part where a million Cambodians died as a result of Nixon's secret bombing campaigns.

Yes, life has a purpose. You can disagree, that’s on you.

Islam was created 600 years after Jesus. It’s as valid if I create an Abrahamic religion this afternoon.

There’s no topic more spoken of in both the NT and OT than helping the needy.

“Whoever is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward them for what they have done.”

“The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.”

“All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.”

“Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

“Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”

“Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”

“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.”

“Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses.”

“There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land.”

“Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

“Whoever shuts their ears to the cry of the poor will also cry out and not be answered.”

“Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

“Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

“ ‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the LORD your God.”

“If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?”

“If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them.
Rather, be openhanded and freely lend them whatever they need.”

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”

“The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.”

“John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

“ ‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.”

“Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court”

“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.”

“Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.”

“ ‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”

“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke?
Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter— when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?”

“Whoever mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished.”

“Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.”

“And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.”

“Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.”


—————————

As far as how many were murdered by Godless nations, you go look up 20th century Democide and apply your own number then. Mine was from a reliable source.

And saying people were behind the creation of those governments is correct. Just as people were behind the creation of NAZI Germany, USSR, PRC, North Korea, etc etc. All tyrannical regimes with zero human rights allowed.

You can argue forever about the involvement of the US in the Vietnam war. Still doesn’t change nor justify the fact Communists in Cambodia slaughtered 1/3 of their own population to create a green utopian world.

 

[Weatherman2020]

And he believes everything the bible says.

What a fool I am. I think the same way Reverend Martin Luther King did.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Judging the hearts of other people is playing God and not uncommon among militant religious fanatics. Either that or he's just a racist. Obama has no divorces or scandals.. none of the people he hired have been indicted and he's a committed father and husband.

Faith = Action

 

[Weatherman2020]

And he droned innocent people. Would you call that 'Christian'?

I doubt Obummer said go bomb a wedding party. Clinging to my guns and Bible, I can easily determine he is no Christian though

 

[surada]

Yes, life has a purpose. You can disagree, that’s on you.

Islam was created 600 years after Jesus. It’s as valid if I create an Abrahamic religion this afternoon.

There’s no topic more spoken of in both the NT and OT than helping the needy.

“Whoever is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward them for what they have done.”

“The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.”

“All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.”

“Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

“Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”

“Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”

“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.”

“Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses.”

“There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land.”

“Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

“Whoever shuts their ears to the cry of the poor will also cry out and not be answered.”

“Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

“Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

“ ‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the LORD your God.”

“If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?”

“If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them.
Rather, be openhanded and freely lend them whatever they need.”

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”

“The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.”

“John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

“ ‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.”

“Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court”

“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.”

“Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.”

“ ‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”

“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke?
Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter— when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?”

“Whoever mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished.”

“Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.”

“And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.”

“Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.”


—————————

As far as how many were murdered by Godless nations, you go look up 20th century Democide and apply your own number then. Mine was from a reliable source.

And saying people were behind the creation of those governments is correct. Just as people were behind the creation of NAZI Germany, USSR, PRC, North Korea, etc etc. All tyrannical regimes with zero human rights allowed.

You can argue forever about the involvement of the US in the Vietnam war. Still doesn’t change nor justify the fact Communists in Cambodia slaughtered 1/3 of their own population to create a green utopian world.

Who are you to say God didn't send a messenger to the people of the Arabian peninsula?

 

[Zincwarrior]

No, taking God out of schools made it easier.
View attachment 668037View attachment 668038View attachment 668039View attachment 668040View attachment 668041View attachment 668042View attachment 668043View attachment 668044View attachment 668045View attachment 668046View attachment 668047

Only white people in your pictures. Interesting that.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Only white people in your pictures. Interesting that.

Democrats didn’t like black folks in schools period.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Does it though?

The problem with the way it is taught now is that we have the modern Churches "Disneyfying" the stories in the bible to be more positive than they actually are.

So which is why people picture THIS as the Noah Story.

View attachment 668117

And not THIS!

View attachment 668118

Because most of the stories of the Old Testament are kind of awful. It's basically about a self-absorbed God who inflicts awful punishments on his own people when not encouraging them to inflict genocide on other tribes. But the Churches today leave out the icky parts, only keep the cute parts and wonder why people can't relate to it.

New Testament is great though.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Who are you to say God didn't send a messenger to the people of the Arabian peninsula?

Yeah sure. God sent a messenger to tell people to go behead Jews and Christians.

Your pathetic excuses for evil are beyond the pale.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Democrats didn’t like black folks in schools period.

Who posted it? A Democrat?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Does it though?

The problem with the way it is taught now is that we have the modern Churches "Disneyfying" the stories in the bible to be more positive than they actually are.

So which is why people picture THIS as the Noah Story.

View attachment 668117

And not THIS!

View attachment 668118

Because most of the stories of the Old Testament are kind of awful. It's basically about a self-absorbed God who inflicts awful punishments on his own people when not encouraging them to inflict genocide on other tribes. But the Churches today leave out the icky parts, only keep the cute parts and wonder why people can't relate to it.

No shock you’ve got issues with Sunday school pictures for 5 year olds. Really triggers you.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Who posted it? A Democrat?

Feel free to post black kids in public schools with guns.