New York "SAFE" act turning into a gun ban program...

[JakeStarkey]

You are lying, yet again, while I am telling the truth. That is what you do: fabricate nonsense.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Everytown on Twitter

Our gun nuts are so proud of this.

It isn't the guns...it is democrat judges who keep letting gun criminals back on the streets.....and the revolving door for violent gun criminals, not law abiding gun owners, is the problem....

What is the primary difference between those nations and the US? It is not that we are more lenient than they are, their laws are more lenient than ours. They are all rich nations, like us. And they all have an educated population. The main difference is their gun laws. Now, if you do not want those laws here, you had better propose and implement some effective laws to stop the gun violence in this nation. Or you will get the gun laws those nations have.

They have different cultures...cultured created through feudal systems and societies that went through 2 World Wars...so they are behind us since their cities were destroyed twice in 20 years......they are now catching up.....their social welfare states are no longer able to pass on the values that made their countries civilized....and they are importing violent, 3rd world criminals.

You guys are so blinded by your hatred of guns, you can't see the truth.

Now we now your opinion. No, their (British) cities were not destroyed twice in two World Wars. Germany's was in WWII.

2aguy is so blinded by his love of guns and their killing, he won't see the truth.

The Battle of Britain? Really......moron. The Europeans were set back by World War 1 and World War 2.....their culture also helped to keep their young males civilized. Now, they are catching up, and their welfare states are destroying their ability to civilize their young males. That is why violent crime is higher in Britain now, and why gun crime keeps going up in Britain.

You hate guns......that is why none of your solutions for gun crime will work. You focus on law abiding gun owners because they are easy to punish, you simply pass a new law, and they will comply, meanwhile, the ones actually using guns for rape, robbery and murder, will continue to use guns for rape, robbery and murder.

You know nothing about the UK. People are pretty much the same all over the world.It is access to guns that makes the US so much more dangerous than any country in the first world.

 

[2aguy]

It isn't the guns...it is democrat judges who keep letting gun criminals back on the streets.....and the revolving door for violent gun criminals, not law abiding gun owners, is the problem....

What is the primary difference between those nations and the US? It is not that we are more lenient than they are, their laws are more lenient than ours. They are all rich nations, like us. And they all have an educated population. The main difference is their gun laws. Now, if you do not want those laws here, you had better propose and implement some effective laws to stop the gun violence in this nation. Or you will get the gun laws those nations have.

They have different cultures...cultured created through feudal systems and societies that went through 2 World Wars...so they are behind us since their cities were destroyed twice in 20 years......they are now catching up.....their social welfare states are no longer able to pass on the values that made their countries civilized....and they are importing violent, 3rd world criminals.

You guys are so blinded by your hatred of guns, you can't see the truth.

Now we now your opinion. No, their (British) cities were not destroyed twice in two World Wars. Germany's was in WWII.

2aguy is so blinded by his love of guns and their killing, he won't see the truth.

The Battle of Britain? Really......moron. The Europeans were set back by World War 1 and World War 2.....their culture also helped to keep their young males civilized. Now, they are catching up, and their welfare states are destroying their ability to civilize their young males. That is why violent crime is higher in Britain now, and why gun crime keeps going up in Britain.

You hate guns......that is why none of your solutions for gun crime will work. You focus on law abiding gun owners because they are easy to punish, you simply pass a new law, and they will comply, meanwhile, the ones actually using guns for rape, robbery and murder, will continue to use guns for rape, robbery and murder.

You know nothing about the UK. People are pretty much the same all over the world.It is access to guns that makes the US so much more dangerous than any country in the first world.

Except.....you are wrong....

The United States....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain.....


U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime


The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data. Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

You really don't understand what is going on....




-------

 

[2aguy]

It isn't the guns...it is democrat judges who keep letting gun criminals back on the streets.....and the revolving door for violent gun criminals, not law abiding gun owners, is the problem....

What is the primary difference between those nations and the US? It is not that we are more lenient than they are, their laws are more lenient than ours. They are all rich nations, like us. And they all have an educated population. The main difference is their gun laws. Now, if you do not want those laws here, you had better propose and implement some effective laws to stop the gun violence in this nation. Or you will get the gun laws those nations have.

They have different cultures...cultured created through feudal systems and societies that went through 2 World Wars...so they are behind us since their cities were destroyed twice in 20 years......they are now catching up.....their social welfare states are no longer able to pass on the values that made their countries civilized....and they are importing violent, 3rd world criminals.

You guys are so blinded by your hatred of guns, you can't see the truth.

Now we now your opinion. No, their (British) cities were not destroyed twice in two World Wars. Germany's was in WWII.

2aguy is so blinded by his love of guns and their killing, he won't see the truth.

The Battle of Britain? Really......moron. The Europeans were set back by World War 1 and World War 2.....their culture also helped to keep their young males civilized. Now, they are catching up, and their welfare states are destroying their ability to civilize their young males. That is why violent crime is higher in Britain now, and why gun crime keeps going up in Britain.

You hate guns......that is why none of your solutions for gun crime will work. You focus on law abiding gun owners because they are easy to punish, you simply pass a new law, and they will comply, meanwhile, the ones actually using guns for rape, robbery and murder, will continue to use guns for rape, robbery and murder.

You know nothing about the UK. People are pretty much the same all over the world.It is access to guns that makes the US so much more dangerous than any country in the first world.

And again....you don't understand the issue because you are blinded by your hatred of guns and gun owners....

Your social welfare system is creating more and more violent young males. Your immigration policies have imported violent young men from the 3rd World.

Your social welfare state is unsupportable, the first sign is that you now have to rob the police forces of manpower and money to prop up failed welfare budgets...which means that with increased violent males in your country, you now have fewer police with fewer resources to deal with them.....and so your gun crime rate is going up.


London now more dangerous than New York City, crime stats suggest

While both London and New York have populations of around 8 million, figures suggest you are almost six times more likely to be burgled in the British capital than in the US city, and one and a half times more likely to fall victim to a robbery.

London has almost three times the number of reported rapes and while the murder rate in New York remains higher, the gap is narrowing dramatically.


The change in fortunes of the two global cities has been put down largely to the difference in tactics adopted by the two police forces.

Both Scotland Yard and the New York City Police Department (NYPD) have just over 30,000 officers each and budgets of around £3 billion a year.

But in the mid-1990s spiralling crime rates in New York - sparked by the crack cocaine epidemic - resulted in radical a new approach being adopted by the city's police department.

Under the leadership of Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and police commissioner, Bill Bratton, the NYPD introduced a zero tolerance approach to low level crime and flooded problem areas with patrols.

The force also put a huge amount of emphasis on community policing in order to build bridges between the police and members of the public.

As a result the murder plummeted from a high in 1990 of over 2,000 to a record low of 335 last year.

That figure is expected to fall even lower this year, and is currently in line to dip below 240.

=======

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You post this shit every time you get called out.There were 40 gun murders in the US on boxing day alone. Zero in the UK.
Are your precious guns so important to you that you ignore the damage that they do to your society ?

 

[2aguy]

You post this shit every time you get called out.There were 40 gun murders in the US on boxing day alone. Zero in the UK.
Are your precious guns so important to you that you ignore the damage that they do to your society ?

Gun crime is up....but your criminals are not executing their victims. That isn't a success of gun control, that is simply a difference in criminal culture...your criminals, at this point, do not commit murder with their guns...they will do everything else, but they don't cross that line....yet....

Once your criminals realize that you have gutted your police forces.....the killing will start, and there won't be armed citizens to stop it.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You post this shit every time you get called out.There were 40 gun murders in the US on boxing day alone. Zero in the UK.
Are your precious guns so important to you that you ignore the damage that they do to your society ?

Gun crime is up....but your criminals are not executing their victims. That isn't a success of gun control, that is simply a difference in criminal culture...your criminals, at this point, do not commit murder with their guns...they will do everything else, but they don't cross that line....yet....

Once your criminals realize that you have gutted your police forces.....the killing will start, and there won't be armed citizens to stop it.

You know nothing about the UK criminal culture and are making up a scenario that suits your agenda.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Ok, thanks for the worthless posts.
If you decide you want to actually discuss it, let me know.

So do you have any ideas of how to reduce the problem, or are you just content to accept so many deaths as the price of everyone being able to carry a gun around?

Well, we cant keep people from killing themselves.
What can we do about gangs?
I am OK with regulations as long as it doesnt infringe on anyones fundamental right to own a weapon

Universal background checks don't infringe on anyone. They won't completely solve the problem, no one thing ill, but they will help.

Yes...they do.....they would cost money to do and they require universal gun registration...both are violations of the Constitution and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Do background checks from licensed dealers require gun registration?

It's clandestine gun registration.

 

[Marion Morrison]

You post this shit every time you get called out.There were 40 gun murders in the US on boxing day alone. Zero in the UK.
Are your precious guns so important to you that you ignore the damage that they do to your society ?

How many rapes, robberies, and murders happened in the UK that day?

I think you're intelligent enough to be willingly tapdancing around the truth,

which makes you an even bigger douchebag.

 

[BULLDOG]

I guess that's why all law are a waste of time. Criminals don't follow them, and the rest don't need them. I'm truly amazed at your insight.

Redundant laws that restrict the rights of law abiding citizens are a problem you know the ones criminals refuse to follow. I'm truly unamazed at you lack of insight.

Will you name 1 law that you think is effective or required? One law that criminals don't ignore?

That is easy and we do it every time you bring up "reasonable gun laws." It is against the law to use a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder. Those are effective, they work, and they specifically target illegal behavior, and more to the point, they do not impact law abiding people in any way.

Effective? Criminals use guns to commit rape and murder. According to your rhetoric, those laws are useless because criminals don't care about the law.

Nope....not the argument....laws against rape, robbery and murder do not prevent criminals from committing those acts, they give us the ability to arrest and jail them. Your gun control laws do stop law abiding people from accessing their Right to Keep and Bear arms, but do not stop criminals from getting guns. We already have laws that allow us to lock up people who use guns to commit crimes...you want laws that prevent law abiding people from owning and carrying guns...laws that will not effect criminals in any way.

How does a background check keep anyone from accessing their right to keep and bear arms? ...WAIT!!!!.....Don't tell me. Go tell the supreme court.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You post this shit every time you get called out.There were 40 gun murders in the US on boxing day alone. Zero in the UK.
Are your precious guns so important to you that you ignore the damage that they do to your society ?

How many rapes, robberies, and murders happened in the UK that day?

I think you're intelligent enough to be willingly tapdancing around the truth.

Which makes you an even bigger douchebag.

There was a possible murder in London on Xmas eve. Cant find any others but I will keep looking.

North London murder victim named as Iuliana Tudos

Of course with it being the season of goodwill there will have been countless domestics up and down the country. However due to our sensible gun laws they did not result in tragic deaths.

However in the US an overcooked turkey results in a body count.

Incident | Gun Violence Archive

Incident | Gun Violence Archive

Incident | Gun Violence Archive

Incident | Gun Violence Archive

Incident | Gun Violence Archive

Incident | Gun Violence Archive

Incident | Gun Violence Archive

People have probably been shot in the US whilst I typed this.

 

[BULLDOG]

So do you have any ideas of how to reduce the problem, or are you just content to accept so many deaths as the price of everyone being able to carry a gun around?

Well, we cant keep people from killing themselves.
What can we do about gangs?
I am OK with regulations as long as it doesnt infringe on anyones fundamental right to own a weapon

Universal background checks don't infringe on anyone. They won't completely solve the problem, no one thing ill, but they will help.

Yes...they do.....they would cost money to do and they require universal gun registration...both are violations of the Constitution and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Do background checks from licensed dealers require gun registration?

It's clandestine gun registration.

That's your imagination.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Well, we cant keep people from killing themselves.
What can we do about gangs?
I am OK with regulations as long as it doesnt infringe on anyones fundamental right to own a weapon

Universal background checks don't infringe on anyone. They won't completely solve the problem, no one thing ill, but they will help.

Yes...they do.....they would cost money to do and they require universal gun registration...both are violations of the Constitution and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Do background checks from licensed dealers require gun registration?

It's clandestine gun registration.

That's your imagination.

No, the records are supposed to be destroyed within X period of time..and they are, after that agency shares the info with 2-3 other ones which don't destroy the records. That's how it is.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Redundant laws that restrict the rights of law abiding citizens are a problem you know the ones criminals refuse to follow. I'm truly unamazed at you lack of insight.

Will you name 1 law that you think is effective or required? One law that criminals don't ignore?

That is easy and we do it every time you bring up "reasonable gun laws." It is against the law to use a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder. Those are effective, they work, and they specifically target illegal behavior, and more to the point, they do not impact law abiding people in any way.

Effective? Criminals use guns to commit rape and murder. According to your rhetoric, those laws are useless because criminals don't care about the law.

Nope....not the argument....laws against rape, robbery and murder do not prevent criminals from committing those acts, they give us the ability to arrest and jail them. Your gun control laws do stop law abiding people from accessing their Right to Keep and Bear arms, but do not stop criminals from getting guns. We already have laws that allow us to lock up people who use guns to commit crimes...you want laws that prevent law abiding people from owning and carrying guns...laws that will not effect criminals in any way.

How does a background check keep anyone from accessing their right to keep and bear arms? ...WAIT!!!!.....Don't tell me. Go tell the supreme court.

Its a problem when it becomes part of a national gun registry.

 

[BULLDOG]

Universal background checks don't infringe on anyone. They won't completely solve the problem, no one thing ill, but they will help.

Yes...they do.....they would cost money to do and they require universal gun registration...both are violations of the Constitution and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Do background checks from licensed dealers require gun registration?

It's clandestine gun registration.

That's your imagination.

No, the records are supposed to be destroyed within X period of time..and they are, after that agency shares the info with 2-3 other ones which don't destroy the records. That's how it is.

Are all guns bought from a dealer also registered in the way you describe?

 

[BULLDOG]

Will you name 1 law that you think is effective or required? One law that criminals don't ignore?

That is easy and we do it every time you bring up "reasonable gun laws." It is against the law to use a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder. Those are effective, they work, and they specifically target illegal behavior, and more to the point, they do not impact law abiding people in any way.

Effective? Criminals use guns to commit rape and murder. According to your rhetoric, those laws are useless because criminals don't care about the law.

Nope....not the argument....laws against rape, robbery and murder do not prevent criminals from committing those acts, they give us the ability to arrest and jail them. Your gun control laws do stop law abiding people from accessing their Right to Keep and Bear arms, but do not stop criminals from getting guns. We already have laws that allow us to lock up people who use guns to commit crimes...you want laws that prevent law abiding people from owning and carrying guns...laws that will not effect criminals in any way.

How does a background check keep anyone from accessing their right to keep and bear arms? ...WAIT!!!!.....Don't tell me. Go tell the supreme court.

Its a problem when it becomes part of a national gun registry.

Is there a national gun registry? Are all guns bought from licensed dealers entered into a national gun registry?

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

That is easy and we do it every time you bring up "reasonable gun laws." It is against the law to use a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder. Those are effective, they work, and they specifically target illegal behavior, and more to the point, they do not impact law abiding people in any way.

Effective? Criminals use guns to commit rape and murder. According to your rhetoric, those laws are useless because criminals don't care about the law.

Nope....not the argument....laws against rape, robbery and murder do not prevent criminals from committing those acts, they give us the ability to arrest and jail them. Your gun control laws do stop law abiding people from accessing their Right to Keep and Bear arms, but do not stop criminals from getting guns. We already have laws that allow us to lock up people who use guns to commit crimes...you want laws that prevent law abiding people from owning and carrying guns...laws that will not effect criminals in any way.

How does a background check keep anyone from accessing their right to keep and bear arms? ...WAIT!!!!.....Don't tell me. Go tell the supreme court.

Its a problem when it becomes part of a national gun registry.

Is there a national gun registry? Are all guns bought from licensed dealers entered into a national gun registry?

No there is not Federal Law prohibits it, But Liberals are definitely pushing for one just in case they ever have enough power for confiscation.

 

[2aguy]

Redundant laws that restrict the rights of law abiding citizens are a problem you know the ones criminals refuse to follow. I'm truly unamazed at you lack of insight.

Will you name 1 law that you think is effective or required? One law that criminals don't ignore?

That is easy and we do it every time you bring up "reasonable gun laws." It is against the law to use a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder. Those are effective, they work, and they specifically target illegal behavior, and more to the point, they do not impact law abiding people in any way.

Effective? Criminals use guns to commit rape and murder. According to your rhetoric, those laws are useless because criminals don't care about the law.

Nope....not the argument....laws against rape, robbery and murder do not prevent criminals from committing those acts, they give us the ability to arrest and jail them. Your gun control laws do stop law abiding people from accessing their Right to Keep and Bear arms, but do not stop criminals from getting guns. We already have laws that allow us to lock up people who use guns to commit crimes...you want laws that prevent law abiding people from owning and carrying guns...laws that will not effect criminals in any way.

How does a background check keep anyone from accessing their right to keep and bear arms? ...WAIT!!!!.....Don't tell me. Go tell the supreme court.

First, it is a violation of your Right against self incrimination. Then, if violates the 2nd Amendment as a violation of your Right to keep and bear arms, much like a Poll Tax or Literacy Test does...and that is all before you get to using it as a precursor to universal gun background checks, and then gun registration.

 

[bgrouse]

Will you name 1 law that you think is effective or required? One law that criminals don't ignore?

That is easy and we do it every time you bring up "reasonable gun laws." It is against the law to use a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder. Those are effective, they work, and they specifically target illegal behavior, and more to the point, they do not impact law abiding people in any way.

Effective? Criminals use guns to commit rape and murder. According to your rhetoric, those laws are useless because criminals don't care about the law.

Nope....not the argument....laws against rape, robbery and murder do not prevent criminals from committing those acts, they give us the ability to arrest and jail them. Your gun control laws do stop law abiding people from accessing their Right to Keep and Bear arms, but do not stop criminals from getting guns. We already have laws that allow us to lock up people who use guns to commit crimes...you want laws that prevent law abiding people from owning and carrying guns...laws that will not effect criminals in any way.

How does a background check keep anyone from accessing their right to keep and bear arms? ...WAIT!!!!.....Don't tell me. Go tell the supreme court.

First, it is a violation of your Right against self incrimination.

A background check works with the person being checked testifying against himself? I always thought they checked databases for it, so it's the database service testifying against the purchaser. Wouldn't be very useful if all you had to do was say you weren't a convicted criminal.

 

[2aguy]

That is easy and we do it every time you bring up "reasonable gun laws." It is against the law to use a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder. Those are effective, they work, and they specifically target illegal behavior, and more to the point, they do not impact law abiding people in any way.

Effective? Criminals use guns to commit rape and murder. According to your rhetoric, those laws are useless because criminals don't care about the law.

Nope....not the argument....laws against rape, robbery and murder do not prevent criminals from committing those acts, they give us the ability to arrest and jail them. Your gun control laws do stop law abiding people from accessing their Right to Keep and Bear arms, but do not stop criminals from getting guns. We already have laws that allow us to lock up people who use guns to commit crimes...you want laws that prevent law abiding people from owning and carrying guns...laws that will not effect criminals in any way.

How does a background check keep anyone from accessing their right to keep and bear arms? ...WAIT!!!!.....Don't tell me. Go tell the supreme court.

Its a problem when it becomes part of a national gun registry.

Is there a national gun registry? Are all guns bought from licensed dealers entered into a national gun registry?

They want a gun registry, and universal background checks gives them the next step and the next demand for them. Universal Background checks will be gotten around by criminals the same way current background checks are gotten around...the criminals shooting up New York, Chicago, Baltimore and the other democrat cities are not going through background checks. Then, once criminals and mass shooters keep getting guns, and people forget that you guys said that UBCs were all we needed, you will then drag out the dead bodies and demand universal gun registration, using the complaint that the only way universal gun background checks can work...is if we have universal gun registration........and you will use the same arguments, drag out the same dead bodies.....and then, when that doesn't work, and you have the power, you will use those lists to confiscate guns as Germany, Britain, Canada, Hawaii, New York, California and Australia have done....