NewGuy's Disproving Evolution Thread

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
All good points except for the following

"Hence the impossibility of it occuring."


just because something is too random to be predicted doesn't mean that its an impossibility.

I can predict that gamma radiation will one day turn us all into great green hulking monsters, does that mean its impossible?

ABSOLUTELY!

The point though, again, is that the possiblity is so remote by comparison to all the other points you are left with only 3 choices:

1. The Bible is correct. (Again, impossible to dispute the science)

2. The alternative theories are correct: Aliens, etc... (again .....how much proof?)

3. Evolution is correct.

The problem is that the odds and proof in support of number 3 are nearly equal to number 2 and nowhere NEAR the potential for number 1.

If number 1 OVERWHELMINGLY is proven by evidence and the others are nowhere close, it makes more sense to believe it.

Plain and simple.

 

[TN_Independent]

Smoke and mirrors...... plain and simple.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
Smoke and mirrors...... plain and simple.

Which?

 

[KLSuddeth]

gosh I wish that I had time to respond to this right now - but Im homeschooling.

Later when I have time, Im looking forward to sinking my teeth into this

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
gosh I wish that I had time to respond to this right now - but Im homeschooling.

Later when I have time, Im looking forward to sinking my teeth into this

I won't forget, don't worry.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Which?

First off, I'm a Christian and I believe the Bible. I also believe in evolution, just not the evolution of the human race from apes.

Without trying to flame, I simply see much of your argument as an end run around the obvious. I firmly believe that you believe what you say, but you have yet to disprove the theory of evolution and you will not, I would wager, ever be able to do so.

A specific example would be your example of how the Bible sites instances that, literally, are scientifically proven. You seem to me to suggest that that validates the writings therein. Again, I believe in the Bible, but that does not validate all aspects of the Bible. Any and every book contains some validated facts, but there are many that are far from truth.

That's just the way I see it. Doesn't make it right, just makes it me.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
First off, I'm a Christian and I believe the Bible. I also believe in evolution, just not the evolution of the human race from apes.

I can see where you would get that line of thought as I used to be a firm believer in evolution myself before I even knew anything about the Bible. My knowledge was in the sciences....most directly physics and biology.

Without trying to flame, I simply see much of your argument as an end run around the obvious. I firmly believe that you believe what you say, but you have yet to disprove the theory of evolution and you will not, I would wager, ever be able to do so.

Yet you do not say which point is incorrect or show evidence.

A specific example would be your example of how the Bible sites instances that, literally, are scientifically proven. You seem to me to suggest that that validates the writings therein.

Ummm....no. I am stating that the human mind MUST accept these humanistically proven points as incredibly valid, even more so than evolution. There is far more proof according to the Bible and less according to evolution. The issue then is to weigh which one by human scientifc method shows more evidence. Any scientific mind which claims to use the scientific method and prove their works, MUST arrive at the conclusion that science proves the Bible against creation.

The other issue is that the Bible stands on its own. Prophecy AND the points about physics and other sciences stand on their own. Humanistic studies of science have arrived at the same conclusions MUCH later than the original writings of the Bible verses in question. The Bible needs no verification.

If a scientist, though, wants to disprove based on strictly scientific methods, then that is what I have brought to the table here: A scientific approach to a mind of science that will not independently read the Bible with an open mind.

Again, I believe in the Bible, but that does not validate all aspects of the Bible. Any and every book contains some validated facts, but there are many that are far from truth.

That's just the way I see it. Doesn't make it right, just makes it me.

Fine, but the Bible claims to be the DEVINE work of God. You are forced to believing it is what it claims and reality is what it says, or that it is fiction. You aren't left with any alternatives.

Like you said, you are entitled to your opinion, but the scientific discussion as the topic adresses has been adressed with all the proof necessary to conclusively state the truth about evolution of humans as a viable reality to be false.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I can see where you would get that line of thought as I used to be a firm believer in evolution myself before I even knew anything about the Bible. My knowledge was in the sciences....most directly physics and biology.



Yet you do not say which point is incorrect or show evidence.



Ummm....no. I am stating that the human mind MUST accept these humanistically proven points as incredibly valid, even more so than evolution. There is far more proof according to the Bible and less according to evolution. The issue then is to weigh which one by human scientifc method shows more evidence. Any scientific mind which claims to use the scientific method and prove their works, MUST arrive at the conclusion that science proves the Bible against creation.

The other issue is that the Bible stands on its own. Prophecy AND the points about physics and other sciences stand on their own. Humanistic studies of science have arrived at the same conclusions MUCH later than the original writings of the Bible verses in question. The Bible needs no verification.

If a scientist, though, wants to disprove based on strictly scientific methods, then that is what I have brought to the table here: A scientific approach to a mind of science that will not independently read the Bible with an open mind.



Fine, but the Bible claims to be the DEVINE work of God. You are forced to believing it is what it claims and reality is what it says, or that it is fiction. You aren't left with any alternatives.

Like you said, you are entitled to your opinion, but the scientific discussion as the topic adresses has been adressed with all the proof necessary to conclusively state the truth about evolution of humans as a viable reality to be false.

Your conclusions are based in faith, not reason. The rest of us are using reason. Call us sinners, call us double minded. Whatever. Your opinion is of no consequence. We all know where you stand. We don't agree. Get over it and yourself.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Anyone who believes in evolution is a racist? You're mentally in the Dark Ages dude. Before, I apologized for saying you represented everything bad about religion. I take back that apology. You're a sick despot, twisting religion.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Anyone who believes in evolution is a racist?

No....YOU are a racist. -Remember?

And you didn't deny being LeftWingSympathizer either.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
No....YOU are a racist. -Remember?

And you didn't deny being LeftWingSympathizer either.

No, I don't recall me being a racist. And I support Bush over kerry, not kerry over bush , like you, in your fit of protectionist imbecility.

Your consitutionalist party is a perversion. It's lefties draping themselves in the flag. Quit being such a liar.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I can see where you would get that line of thought as I used to be a firm believer in evolution myself before I even knew anything about the Bible. My knowledge was in the sciences....most directly physics and biology.

So, if I read this correctly, you do not believe in any evolution? If that be the case, what about fossilized records substantiating evolution of many of the species on Earth? Do you not accept this as <b>fact</b>? What about modern observable examples of evolution?

Yet you do not say which point is incorrect or show evidence.

Ummm....no. I am stating that the human mind MUST accept these humanistically proven points as incredibly valid, even more so than evolution. There is far more proof according to the Bible and less according to evolution. The issue then is to weigh which one by human scientifc method shows more evidence. Any scientific mind which claims to use the scientific method and prove their works, MUST arrive at the conclusion that science proves the Bible against creation.

Could you cite specific examples of your proof "according to the Bible"? This is rather vague and therefore I might misinterpret your meaning. I would agree that there are many facts in the Bible that can be substantiated with scientific proof. These verifiable facts do not, though, scientifically substantiate all of the Bible. As to proof of evolution, the instances are many (and again, I reiterate that I'm speaking of evolution not of the human species, but of other life evolution). For example, a species of moth in Europe that for centuries was light colored changed to dark coloring with the dawn of the industrial revolution in response to the trees that it survived on darkening from the smoke and pollution. That, without a doubt, is evolution.

The other issue is that the Bible stands on its own. Prophecy AND the points about physics and other sciences stand on their own. Humanistic studies of science have arrived at the same conclusions MUCH later than the original writings of the Bible verses in question. The Bible needs no verification.

If a scientist, though, wants to disprove based on strictly scientific methods, then that is what I have brought to the table here: A scientific approach to a mind of science that will not independently read the Bible with an open mind.

Pardon me, but this is so much psychobabble to me. Could be I'm simply not intelligent enough to understand it. Or maybe its so much ado about nothing.

Fine, but the Bible claims to be the DEVINE work of God. You are forced to believing it is what it claims and reality is what it says, or that it is fiction. You aren't left with any alternatives.

There can be no doubt about this, at least to Christians. That said, the Bible is read interpretively by each person and faith is the reason that we accept it. Your interpretations and mine, after reading the same passage, will be different. I simply do not see the Biblical and the scientific as two mutually exclusive parts.

.... but the scientific discussion as the topic adresses <i>has been adressed with all the proof necessary to conclusively state the truth about evolution of humans as a viable reality to be false.</i>

So you say.....

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
No, I don't recall me being a racist. And I support Bush over kerry, not kerry over bush , like you, in your fit of protectionist imbecility.

Your consitutionalist party is a perversion. It's lefties draping themselves in the flag. Quit being such a liar.

That wasn't a denial of you being liberal.

I think we are on to something here.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
That wasn't a denial of you being liberal.

I think we are on to something here.

I'm not a liberal. I'm voting for bush.

Out of bush/kerry, who would you prefer? Just answer.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
gosh I wish that I had time to respond to this right now - but Im homeschooling.

Later when I have time, Im looking forward to sinking my teeth into this

I am really anxious to read your reply, KL.

 

[KLSuddeth]

I fear its going to be a long one, Tn...lol
And I want to give it the attention it deserves, so I cannot take the time to do it right now because Im temporarily homeschooling one of my children at this time.

But I am honored that you feel that way about my posts
What a great compliment - thanks!

 

[TN_Independent]

But I am honored that you feel that way about my posts
What a great compliment - thanks! [/B]

As a public school teacher, may I ask a question? Why do you homeschool?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being argumentative. I was just curious what <i>your family's</i> particular reasons were for choosing that option.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
As a public school teacher, may I ask a question? Why do you homeschool?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being argumentative. I was just curious what <i>your family's</i> particular reasons were for choosing that option.

Because of you liberal teachers who want zero accountability for yourselves and are active participants in the dumbing down of america. That's a good reason.

You people make me ill.

 

[KLSuddeth]

You have become my new best friend because I am so lost.

I am temporarily home schooling due to a lack of choice. My son (he has just turned 13 and is in 6th grade - started kindergarten late) will be returning to school in the fall.

The exact reason is something that I one day intend to post to get opinions on, but Im not comfortable posting it publicly as of yet. However, I could private message you with the reason if you want?

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
You have become my new best friend because I am so lost.

I am temporarily home schooling due to a lack of choice. My son (he has just turned 13 and is in 6th grade - started kindergarten late) will be returning to school in the fall.

The exact reason is something that I one day intend to post to get opinions on, but Im not comfortable posting it publicly as of yet. However, I could private message you with the reason if you want?

Not at all necessary. I respect your choice, whatever the reason.

Quite frankly, from what I've read on this board I value your opinion and was simply interested in your thoughts on this issue.