No firearms in Australia

[Toro]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

 

[Skylar]

Violent Crime is down about 36% since 1993.
There are about 100,000,000 more guns in the US.
However......the percentage of families that own guns has plummeted by a third. And personal gun ownership is down by about a fifth.
What does that tell you?

Violent crime fell from 747.1/100k in 1993 to 365.6/100k in 2014.
That's a 51% decrease.
There are 100,000,000 more guns... since 2009.
It tells me you cannot answer my question.

I noticed you didn't touch the gun ownership rates with a 10 foot pole. Why is that, do you think?

I still don't see an answer to my question.
Maybe you missed it, I'll ask again:

Violent crime fell 51% from 1993 to 2014.
There are at least 100,000,000 more guns than in 1993
What does that tell you?

You shall now avoid the question, for the third time.

Like you're avoiding my question about gun ownership rates?

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

 

[Skylar]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

The population is up about 30%. Yet their murder rate dropped by close to a third.

Tellingly, suicides also dropped. The link between suicide and gun ownership is well established. With having a gun in the home doubling to tripling the odds of a suicide in that home.

 

[2aguy]

Violent crime fell from 747.1/100k in 1993 to 365.6/100k in 2014.
That's a 51% decrease.
There are 100,000,000 more guns... since 2009.
It tells me you cannot answer my question.

I noticed you didn't touch the gun ownership rates with a 10 foot pole. Why is that, do you think?

I still don't see an answer to my question.
Maybe you missed it, I'll ask again:

Violent crime fell 51% from 1993 to 2014.
There are at least 100,000,000 more guns than in 1993
What does that tell you?

You shall now avoid the question, for the third time.

Like you're avoiding my question about gun ownership rates?

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

gun ownership went up and crime went down I. The U.S. And the gun crime rate in Australia is going back up.....gun ownership levels in Australia are now back up to where they were before the confiscation....

 

[Weatherman2020]

Homicide in Australia went up 9.6% since they grabbed their guns.

In 1996, 311 people were murdered in Australia. In 2014, 238. This despite Australia's population increasing by about 30% during the same time period.

True, but I was looking at the years immediatly after. But the falling homide rate is not linked to gun availability. For example in the US:
View attachment 56506

AEI is the American Enterprise Institute. They have nothing to do with Australia or its gun death rate.

In Australia, gun deaths are down. Homicide is down. Suicides are down. With gun deaths being about 1/10th that of the US, adjusted for population. And about 1/140th without that adjustment.

Read what I write. I said it was US. Homicides are down in the US as 57,000 guns are sold each day in the US.

So you've essentially just abandoned the Australia discussion in total.

And there are lots of guns sold in the US. Mostly to people that already have them. As the gun ownership rates have plummeted. Down to about 1 in 5 from a high of 1 in 2.

Once again the self evident flies over your head unnoticed.
Saying homicides are down in Aussieland because guns were grabbed is meaningless because homicides are also down in the US with skyrocketing gun sales.

 

[2aguy]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

The population is up about 30%. Yet their murder rate dropped by close to a third.

Tellingly, suicides also dropped. The link between suicide and gun ownership is well established. With having a gun in the home doubling to tripling the odds of a suicide in that home.

Violent crime fell from 747.1/100k in 1993 to 365.6/100k in 2014.
That's a 51% decrease.
There are 100,000,000 more guns... since 2009.
It tells me you cannot answer my question.

I noticed you didn't touch the gun ownership rates with a 10 foot pole. Why is that, do you think?

I still don't see an answer to my question.
Maybe you missed it, I'll ask again:

Violent crime fell 51% from 1993 to 2014.
There are at least 100,000,000 more guns than in 1993
What does that tell you?

You shall now avoid the question, for the third time.

Like you're avoiding my question about gun ownership rates?

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

Wrong.....gun crime in Australia had already been going down before the confiscation...and in the United States our gun crime went down dramatically as our people bought more and more guns.......not the same people, but new buyers.......and now 13 million people carry guns for self defense and our gun murder rate went down again in 2014.

 

[2aguy]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

The population is up about 30%. Yet their murder rate dropped by close to a third.

Tellingly, suicides also dropped. The link between suicide and gun ownership is well established. With having a gun in the home doubling to tripling the odds of a suicide in that home.

Actually no it isn't......The suicide rate for Australia had been going down for 10 years before the confiscation...


And the fact remains that countries like Japan, South Korea, and China have 0 access to guns for civilians, but have 2x the suicide rate that the United States does...

Also...in the United States in 2013, about 21,000 peole committed suicide with guns....but another 19,000 committed suicide without guns....so even if you waved a magic wand and made guns go away, the 21,000 people would just use the methods of the other 19,000.

Ezra Klein Is Wrong: Gun Control Doesn't Reduce Suicide Rates, by Mark Antonio Wright, National Review

What’s more, firearm-related suicides had been declining in Australia for nearly ten years before the 1996 restrictions on gun ownership. Vox’s own chart does not appear to show a causal link between gun control and a reduction in suicide rates in Australia.

Japan

Japan has long had one of the world’s most restrictive national gun-control policies. The Council on Foreign Relations reports that, “Gun-control advocates regularly cite Japan’s highly restrictive firearm regulations in tandem with its extraordinarily low gun homicide rate.” This is true. Because most guns are illegal in Japan and gun-ownership rates are extremely low, the country has the lowest gun-homicide rate in the world at one in 10 million. According to Vox’s theory, Japan should have a similarly low suicide rate — but that’s not what you see at all. Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, nearly twice the U.S. rate. Just last month, the BBC reported that nearly 25,000 Japanese took their own lives in 2014 alone, more than 70 people every day. The scarcity of firearms in Japan has not prevented an extremely high occurrence of suicide.

South Korea

South Korea has gun-control laws so strict almost all guns are illegal; the few available hunting rifles must be “stored at police stations” when not in use. Handguns are practically non-existent and “advertising guns or ammunition is banned.” But while shooting incidents “are rare,” South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the developed world according to the World Health Organization. As in Japan, social and cultural factors are probably to blame: 14-hour days in the classroom with relentless pressure to ace exams, a “higher percentage of stressed out kids than in any of the 30 other developed nations,” and expectations of success made more difficult to meet in moribund economic times. Guns are certainly not a factor in the suicide rate. Along with hanging, drowning, and jumping off of buildings, ingesting pesticides was the method of choice for nearly 25 percent of South Korean suicides between 2006 and 2010. In 2012, more than 14,000 South Koreans took their own lives. Gun-control is not a causal factor in reducing suicide rates. According to the data compiled by the World Health Organization, the story is much the same elsewhere: Developed Western nations such as Hungary, Poland, France, Belgium, and Austria all have higher suicide rates than the United States — and all have stricter gun-control regimes. As much as Ezra Klein and Vox want to use suicide rates as a tool to attack American’s Second Amendment rights, the data don’t support their case.

Read more at: Ezra Klein Is Wrong: Gun Control Doesn't Reduce Suicide Rates, by Mark Antonio Wright, National Review

 

[2aguy]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

What they are not reporting is that gun crime in Australia is starting to increase....with more criminal gangs and immigrant gangs shooting at each other.....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Violent crime fell from 747.1/100k in 1993 to 365.6/100k in 2014.
That's a 51% decrease.
There are 100,000,000 more guns... since 2009.
It tells me you cannot answer my question.

I noticed you didn't touch the gun ownership rates with a 10 foot pole. Why is that, do you think?

I still don't see an answer to my question.
Maybe you missed it, I'll ask again:

Violent crime fell 51% from 1993 to 2014.
There are at least 100,000,000 more guns than in 1993
What does that tell you?

You shall now avoid the question, for the third time.

Like you're avoiding my question about gun ownership rates?

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

Violent crime fell from 747.1/100k in 1993 to 365.6/100k in 2014.
That's a 51% decrease.
There are 100,000,000 more guns... since 2009.
It tells me you cannot answer my question.

I noticed you didn't touch the gun ownership rates with a 10 foot pole. Why is that, do you think?

I still don't see an answer to my question.
Maybe you missed it, I'll ask again:

Violent crime fell 51% from 1993 to 2014.
There are at least 100,000,000 more guns than in 1993
What does that tell you?

You shall now avoid the question, for the third time.

Like you're avoiding my question about gun ownership rates?

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

You continued avoidance of my question is noted, and expected.
As is you concession of the point.

 

[2aguy]

In Australia, gun deaths are down. Homicide is down. Suicides are down. With gun deaths being about 1/10th that of the US, adjusted for population. And about 1/140th without that adjustment.

In the US, All violent crime is down >50% since 1993
Yet, there are scored of millions more guns than in 1993
What's that tell you?

Violent Crime is down about 36% since 1993.

There are about 100,000,000 more guns in the US.

However......the percentage of families that own guns has plummeted by a third. And personal gun ownership is down by about a fifth.

What does that tell you?

No....what you keep seeing reported is the number of guns that are acknowledged as being owned......more and more gun owners are not telling pollsters that they actually own guns......especially after the various news papers tried to publish the names of gun owners as an act of shaming them and "outing" them and their addresses....

The General Social Survey...which is the source of this myth, is run by a known gun grabber, who told John Lott that he wants his survey to bolster the resolve of politicians to pass more gun control.....

 

[2aguy]

Australia has a far lower homicide rate than the U.S.

But they allow no firearms to most of their population, so how did this KNOWN criminal get one?

Probably through a long, dangerous process of procuring one in the black market.

BUT BUT, according to Noomi and the rest of you bed wetters if laws are so strict that law abiding citizens can not get firearms the same will be true of criminals right?

yeah and they are an island ta boot

What about Israel? They have strict gun laws and their extremists can only get knives...

Nope.....the terrorists who run the territories don't want the other nuts to have guns.....they don't want them to threaten their power....so they won't give them guns....they don't seem to lack guns when they go to war with israel......

 

[2aguy]

What how can this be? An armed person taking Hostages, a criminal at that. I thought Australia had strict firearms laws?

Gunman and Two Others Dead in Sydney Hostage Crisis - Yahoo

Where is Noomi to assure us all this is a hoax?

The rate of gun ownership in Australia is about 15 guns per 100 people. Compared to 112 per 100 in the US. Unsurprisingly, the gun death rates are a fraction of what they are here. With 226 gun deaths in 2012 compared with 32,000 in the US.

Now, Australia is smaller in population, at about 23 million in 2012 compared to 314 million in the US during the same year. But even adjusting for population the gun death rate in the US is more than 10 times higher.

again...for all you gun grabbers out there....Australia and European criminals have easy access to guns....read their crime stories....they get guns when they want them or need them...the difference is that their criminals don't seem to commit murder as much as American criminals do....

that is a matter of choice, not a matter of gun control...

again...their criminals get guns all the time....they are having a real problem in Australia right now with guns showing up in various parts of Australia...just like every where else....

And what are they going to say as their gun crime keeps increasing...they already confiscated guns...and now even with extreme gun control, ownership levels are back up to what they were before the confiscation.

 

[2aguy]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

Except for this little piece...

• MEGAN PALIN
• NT NEWS
• JANUARY 04, 2015 12:40PM

The Northern Territory has the second highest per capita gun ownership in the nation but the lowest rate of firearm crime

Acting Senior Sergeant Bruce Payne said more than 13,000 Territorians hold shooters’ licences – mostly for sport.

“The NT has one of the highest rates of firearm owners in Australia – second only to Tasmania,” he said.

“But the rate of firearm crime is the lowest.”

The latest Australian Institute of Criminology statistics show there were 15 murders in the NT between 2010-12 – 10 were knife stabbings.

None were shootings.

 

[2aguy]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

And this....

Gun crime in Australia: as bad as we think? | Peter Winters



Official statistics fluctuate from year to year and recently there does appear to have been an upsurge in gun violence and consequent deaths, particularly, it seems, in Western Sydney. Conflict between rival criminal gangs in the region is often reported prominently in the media, sometimes, unfortunately, in a sensational way that doesn’t reflect the realities of community life. Criminal activity is as much a part of life in this area as it is anywhere, but there isn’t a gang in every street.

Even so, the Australian Bureau of Statistics ranked NSW as the state with by far the highest incidence of firearm use in criminal acts 2012, and Australia-wide it also appears that the number of people who possess firearms has returned to 1996 levels.

 

[2aguy]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

And then there is the truth...


Australians owning more guns...

NSW gun ownership figures show more than 850,000 firearms in private hands

There has been a dramatic rise in the number of registered guns across New South Wales, with the biggest rises in gun ownership in Sydney's most affluent suburbs, including Neutral Bay, Pyrmont and Sydney's CBD.

The latest figures obtained by the NSW Greens show there are now more than 850,000 firearms in private hands, which equates to one gun for every nine people. That is an almost 40 per cent rise since 2001.

*******************

New plan unveiled to tackle out-of-control gun violence

COMBATING gun crime in NSW remains the top priority of the state's police force, senior officers announced on Wednesday.

In the past 12 months, more than 9000 guns have been taken off NSW streets and 3352 people have been charged as part of ongoing investigations by Strike Force Raptor and Operations Apollo and Spartan.

Unveiling a new plan to tackle out-of-control gun violence in Sydney on Wednesday, NSW Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione said all three strike forces had been brought together to form Operation Talon.

"There is no single source of gun crime violence...guns have fallen into the hands of organised crime, outlaw motorcycle gangs, mid-level crime groups and petty thieves and the lines are often blurred," Mr Scipione said

"That's why it is so important to focus on all these aspects in a unified way...pulling our resources together under the one banner we have that opportunity."


*************
Gun found every two days in Melbourne s red zone
Gun found every two days in Melbourne s red zone

Police are discovering guns in cars every two days in Melbourne's north-west, which has been dubbed the "red zone" by officers concerned about a growing gangster culture in the region.
The alarming figure, obtained from The Police Association, follows anecdotal and statistical evidence of a burgeoning gun culture among young men in the city's north-western fringe.
Police working in the large region, which includes Broadmeadows, Sunshine and Werribee, have reported:
Advertisement

• Firearm-related incidents, such as drive-by shootings, every six days.
• An increasing trend of children as young as 16 carrying guns.
• Regularly finding guns in cars, including sawn-off shotguns and an automatic machine gun, during routine car intercepts.
• Guns stolen from rural homes being used in violent crime in the north-west. Some 530 guns were stolen in rural Victoria in 2013.

It comes as the Crime Statistics Agency released figures on Thursday showing an almost threefold jump in firearm offences in the north-west over the past five years, from 581 in the year to March 2011 to 1332 in the 12 months to April 2015.

A similar trend was reported statewide, with firearm offences rising more than 50 per cent to 13,626.


The figures follow recent high-profile shootings in which two men have been killed - one in Keysborough, the other in Altona Meadows - and significant gun seizures by police. In March, an automatic machine gun was found during a car intercept in Sunbury, and in February, an M16 assault rifle and Thureon machine gun were seized in raids on homes in the city's west.

news video on increasing gun crime...shows robbery and injured...

Gun crime red zone

 

[2aguy]

I saw an article about this a few days ago. Apparently crime went down pretty significantly after they took in the guns.

And then you have these recent stories that weren't covered by the American press the way any shooting here is.....they need the Australia meme to push gun control here....

They need to explain how two immigrants got their hands on guns...one a teenager.

Then...they could explain how gun control stopped these two shooters from becoming mass shooters, since they had guns and could have just as easily walked into a school or a mall and started killing people.....

And that is coming to Australia...their gun control laws will be as bad as France's at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.

Gunman holds hostages..muslim....

2014 Sydney hostage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 15–16 December 2014 a lone gunman, Man Haron Monis, held hostage ten customers and eight employees of a Lindt chocolate café located at Martin Placein Sydney, Australia. Police treated the event as a terrorist attack at the time[11][12] but Monis' motives have subsequently been debated.[13]

After a 16-hour standoff, a gunshot was heard from inside and police officers from the Tactical Operations Unitstormed the café. Hostage Tori Johnson was killed by Monis and hostage Katrina Dawson was killed by a police bullet ricochet in the subsequent raid. Monis was also killed. Three other hostages and a police officer were injured by police gunfire during the raid.[1][14][15]
Immigrant teen shoots cop with handgun...

Teen's Slaying Of Australian Police Worker 'Linked To Terror'

he 15-year-old, who is of Iraqi-Kurdish background and was born in Iran, shot a New South Wales police finance worker with a handgun at close range as the man left work in the western Sydney suburb of Parramatta on Friday, police Commissioner Andrew Scipione (pictured right above, alongside state Premier Mike Baird) said. The teen then fired at responding officers, who shot and killed him, Scipione said.

from 2013...drive buys in australia

Year of the gun: Sydney in grip of upswing in shooting crime

 

[Brain357]

But they allow no firearms to most of their population, so how did this KNOWN criminal get one?

Probably through a long, dangerous process of procuring one in the black market.

BUT BUT, according to Noomi and the rest of you bed wetters if laws are so strict that law abiding citizens can not get firearms the same will be true of criminals right?

yeah and they are an island ta boot

What about Israel? They have strict gun laws and their extremists can only get knives...

Nope.....the terrorists who run the territories don't want the other nuts to have guns.....they don't want them to threaten their power....so they won't give them guns....they don't seem to lack guns when they go to war with israel......

Not buying what you are selling. Have a link that might further explain your claim?

 

[SeniorChief_Polock]

Australia has a far lower homicide rate than the U.S.

It should be ZERO, dingbat.
You mean - take everyone's guns away in the U.S. and only those using them (the few) will be the bad guys and we'll still have crime?
You believe this stupid (Obama) logic?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Australia has a far lower homicide rate than the U.S.

But they allow no firearms to most of their population, so how did this KNOWN criminal get one?

Probably through a long, dangerous process of procuring one in the black market.

BUT BUT, according to Noomi and the rest of you bed wetters if laws are so strict that law abiding citizens can not get firearms the same will be true of criminals right?

yeah and they are an island ta boot

What about Israel? They have strict gun laws and their extremists can only get knives...

even what the hell are you talking about Israel allows military grade firearms to certain citizens you ninny

as for the extremists hamas controls which extremists are allowed firearms

much like isis only sworn hamas members can own firearms

the nazis had similar laws btw


and then there is this interesting article

Israel eases gun laws in bid to cope with Palestinian 'lone wolf' attacks

Israel eases gun laws in bid to cope with Palestinian 'lone wolf' attacks

 

[Brain357]

But they allow no firearms to most of their population, so how did this KNOWN criminal get one?

Probably through a long, dangerous process of procuring one in the black market.

BUT BUT, according to Noomi and the rest of you bed wetters if laws are so strict that law abiding citizens can not get firearms the same will be true of criminals right?

yeah and they are an island ta boot

What about Israel? They have strict gun laws and their extremists can only get knives...

even what the hell are you talking about Israel allows military grade firearms to certain citizens you ninny

as for the extremists hamas controls which extremists are allowed firearms

much like isis only sworn hamas members can own firearms

the nazis had similar laws btw


and then there is this interesting article

Israel eases gun laws in bid to cope with Palestinian 'lone wolf' attacks

Israel eases gun laws in bid to cope with Palestinian 'lone wolf' attacks

I'm talking about how their extremists seem to only be able to get knives. It seems their gun control works. Very few are allowed guns. From your link:
In Israel firearms licenses are typically only given if one can prove they have reason to carry a gun – for instance if they work in security or law enforcement or live in a dangerous area like the West Bank. They must also be over 21 years old, a resident of Israel for over three years, and pass a mental and physical exam, a shooting test and background checks by the Public Security Ministry. They are then allowed to order a gun through a gun store with approval of the ministry and given a one-time supply of 50 bullets to take home.